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Author Topic: Being a gentleman or a chump?  (Read 12558 times)

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Offline brownbeard99

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« on: April 12, 2019, 08:17:14 AM »
So, I have almost two months total time in Ukraine now. I think I am learning at least a little. But.... Okay, so I met this girl in a website after I was in Kiev. I am always cautious when I meet a girl who has a blank profile, but she was really friendly over WhatsApp, so I decided to meet her.

When I met this girl, I was blown away. Her pictures online were pretty conservative, but she was drop dead gorgeous in real life... even when compared to other Ukrainian girls.  She is 34, never been married and has one of the sexiest bodies I have ever seen in my life. I asked her if she would ever like to be famous, and for what, she said she would like to be a Victoria’s secret model... in all seriousness, she could be one if she was a little taller.

When I asked this girl out, she agreed, but asked if I minded giving her 500 UAH for gas. She was borrowing her aunt’s car and wanted money for gas. She lives a little outside Kiev... but I also know this is more than the actual cost for gas. 

This girl is really sweet, and not full of herself. I can imagine she is used to having men fall over themselves for her... so if she is expecting men to pay for things, it is not much of a surprise.

We went on one date and it was nice... very formal. After dinner, I told her that I needed to get some hair clippers. She said she would take me to a place she knew because she had to get some other things.  She got some basic toiletries and I offered to pay.  She was very appreciative.  At the end of the date, she was already suggesting where we could go the next night.

The next night, we went out again, but she had to leave after a few hours to go to a dance class. She said she would like to see me after class, so I waited for her at a coffee shop for 90 minutes and we went out again. She said she had to stop at a store to buy (very expensive) food for her cat. I did not offer to pay for this stuff, but she still wanted to see me again the next night.

So, we went out for a third time... this time, she drove me all over Kiev and showed me interesting things. She took me to an Orthodox Church. We went inside and she lit some candles and we also stayed for a little bit of the service.  She seems to be pious and take her faith seriously.  She needed gas for her car and I offered to fill it up. We had dinner at a very nice restaurant.

Again, she needed to take a break from our date for her dance class. I was surprised when she asked if I would mind giving her 600 UAH to pay for her class.  I complied... it’s not that much money for me, but now I am wondering if I am starting a bad trend. 

Today, I moved from an apartment in Kontraktova Ploshcha to the city center. She agreed to leave work and meet me near the city center because I had a two hour time window between apartments and no place to put my bags. She picked me up and I put my bags in her car. We parked and I bought her some tea at a cafe. She stopped at a pet store again. This time, she asked me for 800UAH for pet food and she said she owes for aunt money for using her car. She then drove me to my new apartment. As we were driving around, she saw a sign for a pop concert on Sunday and said it would be really nice if we could go.

She dropped me off at my apartment to go back to work. She said she will meet me later tonight in the city center and also wants to spend the weekend exploring Kiev together. She apologized for not alway being “present” during our dates. She is still working during the day and has her mind on other things.  She hinted that if I came back and we “went away” somewhere that she could relax more.  I found out “away” means somewhere in Europe.

Anyway, I’m trying to figure out if this girl is serious, or just trying to get free stuff.  Things are very nice, but not overly physical or anything. She is quiet and seems really shy, so it’s really hard to get a pulse on what is really going on. She will take my arm when we go walking together and she will let me hold her hand across the table when we go out. We seem to begin dates with a kiss on the cheek (very close to the mouth)... and end dates with a soft, closed mouth kiss on the lips.

Yes, I’m used to girls who want to get into bed in three dates or less... is this what a “good girl” looks like in Ukraine?  Or...is
this a clever girl who just wants stuff?  This is now the seventh Ukrainian girl I have gone out with and none have been quite like this one....

Thoughts?

Online LAman

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2019, 08:25:19 AM »
If you can't tell when you are being used I feel sorry for you.

7 girls now? You think that maybe, just maybe the problem is YOU?
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Offline brownbeard99

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2019, 08:37:23 AM »
Seriously?

Maybe you are not aware that there are cultural differences in certain countries.  In the US, I don’t pay for shit because I don’t have to. If I ever gave  a girl cash in the US, I would feel like I am being used. So, are you saying that every Ukrainian girl who asks for taxi money is using a man? I am asking about cultural norms here. If you don’t know what they are, then just admit it. If you do, then why don’t you help out instead of criticizing?

And going on seven dates with Ukrainian girls over a two month period means I have a problem? Do you realize how many forum members have gone out with more than seven Ukrainian girls?  Have you ever heard of WMVM?  The “M” stands for “MANY”  I am in Ukraine right now. If I have a free night, I don’t have the time to get to know someone over several weeks time online. So, should I just stay in my hotel room and not go out because I don’t want too many dates?  Should I keep going out with someone that I am not a match with because I don’t want to date too many women?

Offline krimster2

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2019, 08:42:55 AM »
once again you're presenting something that you claim is an "external problem"
what is in actuality an internal problem

this is about YOU and not about THEM...

these so called "problems" are actually symptoms of your illness
don't you get it?

look before you get all defensive over criticism and trigger another symptom
I have autism
went to therapy learned to tame the thing inside me
so now it works FOR me instead of against me

stop being a putz, take a good long hard look at yourself
if you see anything you'd like to change - well change it, and stop blaming the wimmin...

oh, and on the way UP
be nice to the folks you meet
cuz they're the same ones you'll see on the way down
didn't I tell ya that....
ummmmm hmmmmmmm

вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline brownbeard99

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2019, 08:46:17 AM »
Thanks for your input, but you are not answering my question.

I will have plenty of time to work on my deep personal problems when I return to the US. Right now, I’m dealing with more immediate things.

Offline ML

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2019, 08:54:27 AM »
The 'good' Ukrainian women that my wife spoke about in your other thread do not ask men for money for anything.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline rwd123

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2019, 08:58:35 AM »
Are you familiar with Slavic fairy tales? These women are foxes and you are Kolobok! YOU ARE BEING FLEECED. NICKLED AND DIMED. Some girls try and steal a base (pet food), some try for a home run (iphone).

There's a difference between offering taxi money and being asked for taxi money. Good women ask for nothing. But a good man will make sure she gets home (in her own bed by herself on the first date).

You need to be able to spot a weed from a flower. That means to stop thinking with your dick!

Offline krimster2

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2019, 09:02:49 AM »
"Thanks for your input, but you are not answering my question.

if I did, it wouldn't solve your problem for you
because your problem actually relates to your own deep insecurity and has nothing to do with taxi fares or any individual woman of any nationality
this problem IS ALL ABOUT YOU.....


 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 09:05:06 AM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline brownbeard99

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2019, 09:06:32 AM »
Are you familiar with Slavic fairy tales? These women are foxes and you are Kolobok! YOU ARE BEING FLEECED. NICKLED AND DIMED. Some girls try and steal a base (pet food), some try for a home run (iphone).

There's a difference between offering taxi money and being asked for taxi money. Good women ask for nothing. But a good man will make sure she gets home (in her own bed by herself on the first date).

You need to be able to spot a weed from a flower. That means to stop thinking with your dick!

Thank you for input that is actually helpful!

Offline c5h

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2019, 09:13:39 AM »
Thanks for your input, but you are not answering my question.

I will have plenty of time to work on my deep personal problems when I return to the US. Right now, I’m dealing with more immediate things.

There are the good wholesome girls, the ones that in for some benefits, semi-pros and Pros in Ukraine.  Yours is probably used to getting some benefits and that is part of the reason she spending time with you.  If your a chump or not is largely dependent on how good you are with the situation.  She expects some gifts from you in exchange for her time with you.  Only 1 of the 12 or so girls I met was like that.   

Offline rwd123

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2019, 09:23:42 AM »
I'd say ditch dating for the evening. Head to Buddha Bar and have a few drinks. Then walk a few blocks to Heaven before 2am, some foreigners aren't let him but if you're not drunk you should be fine. Score some ecstasy on the dance floor downstairs. Dance until it's time for breakfast. By then your worries will be gone!

Online Trenchcoat

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2019, 09:34:48 AM »
So, I have almost two months total time in Ukraine now. I think I am learning at least a little. But.... Okay, so I met this girl in a website after I was in Kiev. I am always cautious when I meet a girl who has a blank profile, but she was really friendly over WhatsApp, so I decided to meet her.

When I met this girl, I was blown away. Her pictures online were pretty conservative, but she was drop dead gorgeous in real life... even when compared to other Ukrainian girls.  She is 34, never been married and has one of the sexiest bodies I have ever seen in my life. I asked her if she would ever like to be famous, and for what, she said she would like to be a Victoria’s secret model... in all seriousness, she could be one if she was a little taller.

When I asked this girl out, she agreed, but asked if I minded giving her 500 UAH for gas. She was borrowing her aunt’s car and wanted money for gas. She lives a little outside Kiev... but I also know this is more than the actual cost for gas. 

This girl is really sweet, and not full of herself. I can imagine she is used to having men fall over themselves for her... so if she is expecting men to pay for things, it is not much of a surprise.

We went on one date and it was nice... very formal. After dinner, I told her that I needed to get some hair clippers. She said she would take me to a place she knew because she had to get some other things.  She got some basic toiletries and I offered to pay.  She was very appreciative.  At the end of the date, she was already suggesting where we could go the next night.

The next night, we went out again, but she had to leave after a few hours to go to a dance class. She said she would like to see me after class, so I waited for her at a coffee shop for 90 minutes and we went out again. She said she had to stop at a store to buy (very expensive) food for her cat. I did not offer to pay for this stuff, but she still wanted to see me again the next night.

So, we went out for a third time... this time, she drove me all over Kiev and showed me interesting things. She took me to an Orthodox Church. We went inside and she lit some candles and we also stayed for a little bit of the service.  She seems to be pious and take her faith seriously.  She needed gas for her car and I offered to fill it up. We had dinner at a very nice restaurant.

Again, she needed to take a break from our date for her dance class. I was surprised when she asked if I would mind giving her 600 UAH to pay for her class.  I complied... it’s not that much money for me, but now I am wondering if I am starting a bad trend. 

Today, I moved from an apartment in Kontraktova Ploshcha to the city center. She agreed to leave work and meet me near the city center because I had a two hour time window between apartments and no place to put my bags. She picked me up and I put my bags in her car. We parked and I bought her some tea at a cafe. She stopped at a pet store again. This time, she asked me for 800UAH for pet food and she said she owes for aunt money for using her car. She then drove me to my new apartment. As we were driving around, she saw a sign for a pop concert on Sunday and said it would be really nice if we could go.

She dropped me off at my apartment to go back to work. She said she will meet me later tonight in the city center and also wants to spend the weekend exploring Kiev together. She apologized for not alway being “present” during our dates. She is still working during the day and has her mind on other things.  She hinted that if I came back and we “went away” somewhere that she could relax more.  I found out “away” means somewhere in Europe.

Anyway, I’m trying to figure out if this girl is serious, or just trying to get free stuff.  Things are very nice, but not overly physical or anything. She is quiet and seems really shy, so it’s really hard to get a pulse on what is really going on. She will take my arm when we go walking together and she will let me hold her hand across the table when we go out. We seem to begin dates with a kiss on the cheek (very close to the mouth)... and end dates with a soft, closed mouth kiss on the lips.

Yes, I’m used to girls who want to get into bed in three dates or less... is this what a “good girl” looks like in Ukraine?  Or...is
this a clever girl who just wants stuff?  This is now the seventh Ukrainian girl I have gone out with and none have been quite like this one....

Thoughts?

Both could be the answer. The first girl I went out with in Kiev for a week was very modest on the physical interaction front. I paid for all restaurants and few pound it cost for some fairly cheap entertainment, theatre, sightseeing stuff, basic attractions and taxis as neither of us had a car. So she wasn't a slapper but I kind of got the feeling she was enjoying a freebie as inexpensive that it was compared to what you could be hit for.

The second girl I met in Kiev was not modest with intimacy but followed more the line your girl here does with asking for stuff. She was even worse I would say as she was asking for clothing that while not real expensive was not cheap either. BB if a UW can get something for nothing out of a guy she will do. Some of those best at it seem to be those that are not obvious with it. I think your girl is being quite canny, she is starting off with reasonable sounding requests and then moving over to more unreasonable as time passes. The fact that you are willing to give her consecutive free dinners at no cost to her/no return of favour is already an initial error. Her demands as we already see get worse the more you meet them. The second girl I was with in Kiev always used logic to justify her demand. Don't believe any of the bs she tells you, it is all FSU dating gameplay. Reign her in now, it might have already gone past the point of no return on this one and you've lost all respect from her as she sees you as easily taken.

I was reading a book a while back on dating in the FSU. A guy called up a load of girls, the one which asked for some taxi money to meet him he turned down and did not meet, he saw it as a bad sign from the outset - he probably already knew the type of behaviour this tends to produce. In a poor country it's not unreasonable for a girl to ask for travel expenses but most can either walk or use the bus, tube to get around cheaply and most are bold enough to do  so never mind the safety stuff. So in general I would say yes you are being used, it is the way out there, it's not to say she is not into you, ask her for intimacy back on some level and you may find out. At the moment though you are giving everything she wants so she is getting it all without giving anything, an easy win for her. The more you let her get away with stuff the bolder she'll getluje with the holiday talk, is she to get that without showing full affection from you either? Beware that some girls will play the modesty card to try and get stuff without having to have sex with a guy, if a guy buys it they know they can play it for a long, long while.
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Offline krimster2

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2019, 09:40:08 AM »
"Score some ecstasy on the dance floor downstairs. "

look for the guy wearing the long black coat
"chorny plosh" he's called

he has a big plastic bag of X tabs inside his coat and he "walks around" all night
I did some Russian girls a solid and did a test tab first
it wasn't actually MDMA but some kinda "research chemical"
ok...but not as good as the real deal... but still the girls were up all night getting crazy with me

вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Online Davo

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2019, 09:45:27 AM »
The 'good' Ukrainian women that my wife spoke about in your other thread do not ask men for money for anything.

I have very little experience compaired with ML and RWD123. They are both spot on.

I had a very long correspondence with one woman and almost 3 weeks on the ground in her city (I only returned home a few days ago)

Like ML states, one thing she said and remained in my mind during our correspondence was “A genuine Russian woman would never ask a man for money, we have too much pride”  or something along those lines.

It didn’t take long for the chemistry we felt online to flow through to real life. I was suprised to recieve very passionate displays of affection in public, even in front of her office. She never let go of my arm or hand where ever we went, even in the supermarket. She literally couldn’t keep her hands off me the whole time..... anywhere. It was wonderful to feel desired again.

In my yet unfinished trip report I mentioned that she tried to pay for things she shouldn’t have, but I glossed over this a lot. For the first week is was a constant battle. I would literally hold her purse shut so she couldn’t pay before I did.

Eventually she realised it was a fight she wouldn’t win and let me pay for the things I would usually pay for on a local date. Some exceptions were, when we went shopping together we put our items in the same basket and instead of separating them at the checkout I paid for it all, but her items were less than $20 aud.

The one time she separated our shopping was during our last days together, where she had bought my children a huge amount of Russian chocolate and candy.

When I returned home I brought with me many gifts that she had generously given. A book about her city written in English, with an amazingly personal message written to me inside the cover. A very expensive bottle of local champagne. The chocolates for my younger boys. My eldest daughter (19) received some Matryoshka dolls and some small trinkets. Again she write a very nice message to my daughter. She bought some local honey for my parents and a can of relatively expensive caviar, which she had delivered personally from the supplier the morning I left.  A genuine woman will give as much as she gets (even is it doesn’t match what you spend), as she wants to make you feel special too and show her appreciation for the time you spend with her.

The last morning we lay on a pebble beach in the warmth of the sun and she gave me a more sentimental gift, a large smooth stone she was laying on from the Black Sea. She wrote a touching message on the stone about where it came from and how special our time was together.

This is exactly how I invisaged all FSU women to be, based on my comparison of her to the positive stereotypes I read online after we met. It wasn’t until I came here and read all the horror stories and accounts like yours that I realise maybe I’m lucky. I found the perfect woman the first time, but to be honest I saw this genuine, caring character instantly two years earlier during our very first phone call.

My advice is to read  about the typical stereotype of a Ukrainian woman and all of her wonderful qualities, then don’t settle for anything less. As the woman I visited said.... fsu women have a great sense of pride. Find a woman like this, one with a caring and generous soul. Give from your heart, because you want to make her feel special and not because she asks for it.

 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 01:27:35 PM by Davo »

Online Gator

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2019, 09:47:59 AM »
BrownBear,

In summary:

1.  Your woman is spoiled, but maybe retrievable.   

2.  34 and never married needs a believable explanation. 

3.  You should be having sex with this woman, now, or she may think something is wrong with you.     Intimacy and sexual experience  are important for you to get to know UW mentality. 

The rest of this post merely elaborates the above. 

__________________________________________________________________________ ________ 

You said you were blown away by this woman, so I assume she is gorgeous.  If so, UM have been chasing her every day for her entire adult life.  She has been "trained" by UM, and UM pay for SMALL stuff for their women as a prerequisite for sexy time together.  UM do this without being asked, and this attention includes flowers, chai and tort, etc.  UW expect a man to know what she needs and he takes care of it. 

What UM do not do is pay for the BIG stuff such as a fur coat, car, etc.  unless they are married, or the UM is wealthy and the woman exceptional.  I occasionally saw the latter case in the form of stunning  women getting out of Bentleys in front of restaurants, theaters, etc.  and her man may even have had a flathead bodyguard.   

Back to your case.  You should offer to pay for her taxi without her having to ask.  All the other stuff such as cat food confirms your woman is spoiled, spoiled by UM as I mentioned.   She expects gifts from men, and because you do not offer, she asks.   Does this mean she is not a good woman?  I need to know more.  However, in my years only a couple of women asked me for gifts (e. g., boutique shampoo)  before we became intimate.  It turned me off, and our relationship never advanced.   

My advice, do not regret paying for the small stuff now.  It was peanuts, yet have a serious conversation NOW!   Say you enjoy the time together, and talk about relationships and your intent.  In this conversation  stress you will not pay for stuff unless you are in committed relationship.  Upon learning this,  she may say "paka"  and you will never see her again.  Good riddance.  Or, the two of you start understanding more about each other. 

Learn why she has not married.  This is the exception, not the rule.  I assert the reason is much more than she is willing to tell you.  Maybe in reality UM find her too difficult, crazy, uncommitted, etc.       


Online msmob

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2019, 10:12:21 AM »
BrownBear,

In summary:

1.  Your woman is spoiled, but maybe retrievable.   


Agreed

2.  34 and never married needs a believable explanation. 

SC is in her fifties and never married ;)


3.  You should be having sex with this woman, now, or she may think something is wrong with you.     Intimacy and sexual experience  are important for you to get to know UW mentality. 

'Sure' and you can share anything 'bad' she or you ever picked up from any partner from the past ...  not wise ..

You said you were blown away by this woman, so I assume she is gorgeous.  If so, UM have been chasing her every day for her entire adult life.  She has been "trained" by UM, and UM pay for SMALL stuff for their women as a prerequisite for sexy time together.  UM do this without being asked, and this attention includes flowers, chai and tort, etc.  UW expect a man to know what she needs and he takes care of it. 



My advice, do not regret paying for the small stuff now.  It was peanuts, yet have a serious conversation NOW!   Say you enjoy the time together, and talk about relationships and your intent.  In this conversation  stress you will not pay for stuff unless you are in committed relationship.  Upon learning this,  she may say "paka"  and you will never see her again.  Good riddance.  Or, the two of you start understanding more about each other. 

Gold advice


Learn why she has not married.  This is the exception, not the rule.  I assert the reason is much more than she is willing to tell you.  Maybe in reality UM find her too difficult, crazy, uncommitted, etc.     

 :ROFL:

Offline krimster2

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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2019, 10:18:57 AM »
you are way out of sync with what it takes to be a success in this “business”
which should be as painfully obvious to you as it is to us...

putting your “issues” aside
best thing for you in general is to compartmentalize your finances and organize it and set a budget

if you think you can get something for nothing
who paid for your lunch today
that’s what I thought...
so why are you expecting a free dessert?

structure it with modern accounting methods if you so like
but this really falls under petty cash, wonder how stressful it would be for someone like you to start making capital level expenditures and not petty cash level?

some other things
to be a success you’ll learn it’s a whole lot easier to do carpentry “with the grain”
than it is “going against it” a lot less splinters that way
so whatever direction things are moving in, understand the momentum and go with it
this means a MASSIVE change in thinking for you
this “caring” about another

so, instead of getting annoyed at this poor girl for bringing a problem to you
hmmmppfff, how dare she take advantage of me this way!
you anticipate little concerns down the path a ways that may effect her - like returning home
and you come up with a FAR better solution than handing her $3 for cab fare
I ALWAYS accompanied the woman home and before I was comfortable driving myself had my own driver take us, and if we passed an open gastranome, I made sure she had a snack as well...

this is cutting with the grain...
so much easier to work using this methodology

« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 10:23:12 AM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline ML

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2019, 10:21:27 AM »
Hey, we don't have to attack the personality traits of BB like the bullies do here with Trench.

Just give him advice without reference to your perceived knowledge of him.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online msmob

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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2019, 10:26:12 AM »
Hey, we don't have to attack the personality traits of BB like the bullies do here with Trench.

Just give him advice without reference to your perceived knowledge of him.

Trench deserves EVERYTHING he gets, ML ...

He asks questions, then tells us we are 'wrong' and 'advises'  how to do it - when he can't pull a Christmas Cracker - let alone a date ..

« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 10:27:46 AM by msmob »

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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2019, 10:31:28 AM »

SC is in her fifties and never married ;)


She had the patience to wait for perfection.   :D 
 


Quote
'Sure' and you can share anything 'bad' she or you ever picked up from any partner from the past ...  not wise ..

Know your woman.  Avoid the party girls.  Be safe.     

I never had an incident. 

Offline krimster2

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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2019, 10:32:15 AM »
"we don't have to attack the personality traits of BB"

thank you for your deeply profound comment, I was quite moved when I read it...
however, you misinterpret MY comments, it's not an attack
just an examination of the symptoms he displays
and you're trying to tell me I shouldn't warn him he's sick and that his sickness is the reason all his relationships end the same way...

I'm really surprised more people aren't familiar with narcissistic personality disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder





« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 10:38:02 AM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

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« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2019, 11:47:50 AM »
She had the patience to wait for perfection.   :D 
 


 :ROFL:     Good humor! Only I am perfection!  :clapping:

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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2019, 11:53:25 AM »
You are in the middle way of the desert, not knowing if the exit is back or forward.

I had recently two women close to this type of situation.
I dropped them into the wild behind me. There are too many women who could be interested in you to care about the mid interested.

You have been giving many details, that is very good.
But the common fact among many men here is that they are not capable to explain and demonstrate the IOI signs of interest a UW could give to you.

Taking you arm to cross the street and letting you hold your hand (see the most interesting meaning here : you hold her hand not she) are too from far to assess that's IOI.
So now even if it's not the thing you really want to see and hear it : try to find the SOD, disinsterest signs.

So as you are not trained to see the IOI and SOD and the pro dater are also trained to send false IOI--> We will come along the most logical way.

Are you sure that a dance class costs 600 UAH ???????????????????????????????????1/ In the next hour try to find a class which costs 600UAH please                                                                                                                          That's your mission.
Activate everybody you know in Ukraine, pay a terp, move the earth and kick your ass to know if in Ukraine a dance class costs 600UAH, and after you will have an opinion.
You remember where it happened, grab a cab and go, find the school and ASK. Move your ass.


Very long time ago, i met a dater and to prove her that she was a piece of shit i came back to the same grocery, i bought the EXACT same stuff WITH her to prove her that she asked me three times more than what the real bill was. I did this because she was all denying, she hated to be confronted. As a girl in a rental office was her accomplice i managed the accomplice to loose her job and her to be kicked off of the marriage agency. Playing sillly games could hit you back.


2/ Do the math : one liter of fuel, how much it costs? Is this cat defecates gold nuggets ??? Have you put a finger in his ass to check?

So 800 UAH for 20 liters, and borrowing the car,, filling it of fuel and first class souper for the cat? Is it true or you dick get toom much blood and your head not irrigated enough,  I just ask.

The question is not a question of margin, even if she puts in her pockets 10$ she is dishonest because she is making money from the relationship, even if 10$ is nothting for you.

So other important question : who is this girl to attend 600 UAH lesson for 90 minutes of dance, what is she doing for a living ? HOW MUCH does she earn ?

Take a pen and draw a line and try to figure out her inputs and ouputs.

You will  reward RWD by telling us here about your inquiry
And anyway if you have found a high UW princess (it happens, they have been dated by gold local men), be prepared to throw away big money or have continuous fights around this topic. To manage this type of girls you need to have a big frame.

LAST QUESTION : have you checked if is she a pro? (prostitute)


« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 12:23:28 PM by Patagonie »
Read : "Operation white panther"
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2019, 12:03:46 PM »
She had the patience to wait for perfection.   :D 


Smooth...))
 

Know your woman.  Avoid the party girls.  Be safe.     

I never had an incident.

I have and the first time I 'thought I knew'....well...

The lass in this thread is not known ...well enough.. that is clear !

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2019, 12:12:27 PM »
500 UAH is about a quarter of a tank of gas, so it's not out of the ballpark.

I don't think being unmarried at 35 is a red flag these days in Ukraine.  I know a fair number of UW who have never married - just didn't find the right man.

Salsa lessons - 120 UAH for one lesson, 650 UAH for 8 lessons.

End result will be once she thinks she has received enough, she will suddenly become "busy".

This post was composed with the aid of google in looking up the cost of salsa lessons.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

 

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