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Author Topic: Being a gentleman or a chump?  (Read 14077 times)

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Online Trenchcoat

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2019, 12:13:23 PM »
BrownBear,

In summary:

1.  Your woman is spoiled, but maybe retrievable.   

2.  34 and never married needs a believable explanation. 

3.  You should be having sex with this woman, now, or she may think something is wrong with you.     Intimacy and sexual experience  are important for you to get to know UW mentality. 

The rest of this post merely elaborates the above. 

__________________________________________________________________________ ________ 

You said you were blown away by this woman, so I assume she is gorgeous.  If so, UM have been chasing her every day for her entire adult life.  She has been "trained" by UM, and UM pay for SMALL stuff for their women as a prerequisite for sexy time together.  UM do this without being asked, and this attention includes flowers, chai and tort, etc.  UW expect a man to know what she needs and he takes care of it. 

What UM do not do is pay for the BIG stuff such as a fur coat, car, etc.  unless they are married, or the UM is wealthy and the woman exceptional.  I occasionally saw the latter case in the form of stunning  women getting out of Bentleys in front of restaurants, theaters, etc.  and her man may even have had a flathead bodyguard.   

Back to your case.  You should offer to pay for her taxi without her having to ask.  All the other stuff such as cat food confirms your woman is spoiled, spoiled by UM as I mentioned.   She expects gifts from men, and because you do not offer, she asks.   Does this mean she is not a good woman?  I need to know more.  However, in my years only a couple of women asked me for gifts (e. g., boutique shampoo)  before we became intimate.  It turned me off, and our relationship never advanced.   

My advice, do not regret paying for the small stuff now.  It was peanuts, yet have a serious conversation NOW!   Say you enjoy the time together, and talk about relationships and your intent.  In this conversation  stress you will not pay for stuff unless you are in committed relationship.  Upon learning this,  she may say "paka"  and you will never see her again.  Good riddance.  Or, the two of you start understanding more about each other. 

Learn why she has not married.  This is the exception, not the rule.  I assert the reason is much more than she is willing to tell you.  Maybe in reality UM find her too difficult, crazy, uncommitted, etc.     

Gator gives very good advice BB, particularly the three points he lists. I know it is difficult to work out what is going on when dating UW at first, their behaviour is different from what we have come to know in the west, it was for me too, a lot of it can seem bizarre. Working out the problems and mistakes made as I and others have outlined is the first stage of understanding. Understanding beyond that if there is indeed understanding to be had is more harder.

I think Gator here is giving top shelf advice that is a level I have not gotten to. Indeed there is probably a reason your girl is not married and that is likely to be that most local guys will not deal with her, they know what she is like and have seen her behaviour in other girls and prefer to go for girls who don't have such a 'buy me this, pay for that' issue. As Gator said she may not be irretrievable but they can be tough to bring around if focused in money/material stuff and you have already aquiesed. I say too with my limited knowledge on this (accepted) as compared to the girl I had as pointed out by Krimster you haven't spent loads in this girl. I don't suggest that you continue to spend as you do or more but in fact less. So as Gator says and tackle the issue. Your one advantage to me see s to be that she is a little timid but is getting bolder, you let her get bold by continuing down the pat as you have and all is lost, she will come to expect that treatment all the time and won't back down. She will then be very difficult to change if not impossible.Girls who have got it over on one guy successfully will then feel more confident on the next guy doing the same,maybe not as much at first but it will become a habit. As 2tallbill told me of the second girl I was with in Kiev that 'she knows she's hot sh*t so can demand stuff' after my Cyprus holiday with her, he was correct.

I think you're girl is a little the same but may have been shunned by local guys as despite being hot she is too difficult for them and they can't afford her. In the end she will expect daily spending on her and you will feel just like a atm machine/walking credit card. She may not come around when you talk to her and refuse to accept your position. I would say even if not lead by example and set up a lot of dates where you visit stuff for free or very low cost, avoid the restaurant stuff completely unless you want it to end up a sex for favours relationship, but that means you are just getting sex for continuing to spend out on her, the relationship then has gone.
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Online 2tallbill

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2019, 12:18:00 PM »
Anyway, I’m trying to figure out if this girl is serious, or just trying to get free stuff.

NOTE: I can only go off of what you've written here. I wasn't along the date(s) 
with bb99, so my comments are based on what he wrote.

In my opinion this girl is a prodater. She wants free stuff, but you've let her.
Gas you pay for, toiletries you don't (if she isn't living with you or engaged to
you).

Dates you pay for (at places you choose) dance class you don't, pet food you
don't. You can't let woman do this. You are giving away a piece of your self
respect each time you buy something that you shouldn't and she is
respecting you less and less each time you comply.

If you had said no in the beginning, the girl might have been redeemable
but in my opinion that time has passed by and when you started buying
gourmet cat food you lost this girl. Even prodaters can get romantically
interested in a man but it's too late for this one.

There are those who can learn from mistakes and those who can't. I think
that you can probably learn from them. I've done plenty of stupid stuff
myself. I tried to not repeat the same dumb stuff and started doing
different dumb stuff.

Now it's time for you to learn from this and pursue somebody else. 

Lastly,

DON'T LET THE PEANUT GALLERY GET YOU DOWN!!
You are putting yourself out there and making mistakes
WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES, OFTEN TIMES THAT'S HOW WE LEARN!!

This is fresh for you and the peanut gallery barbs seem sharper now. 

So, should I just stay in my hotel room and not go out because I don’t want too many dates?  Should I keep going out with someone that I am not a match with because I don’t want to date too many women?

I've dated far more women than I could figure out how many or recount.

My advice is to step back, give yourself a pep talk and meet another
girl.


FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline JayH

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2019, 03:17:53 PM »
BB  --read what I say and then read it again!

Gator comments -- very good explanation --I commend it.

Boethius -- on costs - same.

Fuel is not cheap -- especially on a UKR budget.The cost of running a car -- comparable to the west.
Dance classes are paid in blocks -- in Kyiv UAH 800 - no big deal

Now on actually forking out  $-- it can be both ways . I have done it wrong both ways  !!   I have also done it right both ways !

In this case--good looking girl will not be short of offers re sex --  so ........

As to a future --  mm-- you will not get that far to find out  if you do nothing !

I refer to Steve comments in another thread -re sex tourism.

To repeat a comment made previously--  there is a cost in all of this - grin and bear it-- a lot of time can be saved by going with the flow to see what you have. Being Trenchcoat paranoid  about spending a few $ will guarantee  "failure" in the long term.

Comments in thread ( eg ML)  are not "wrong" -- but a valid opinion. But in my view- not the whole story
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online Faux Pas

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2019, 03:28:44 PM »
brownbeard, My best guess from what you've written is this lady isn't interested in you as a lover or a steady. That doesn't mean don't pursue her if you are interested in her. That could change. Just know up front the bait for that one is money. I wouldn't think you're the first to pay for her company and likely won't be the last. She's gaming you for her minor wants and needs. Bed her and the wants likely get more costly. No, she's not pious and I wouldn't consider her a good girl. She "knows" what she's doing. Maybe she needs to or maybe she just wants to but she's doing it is all that matters.

That said, if you enjoy her company continue on. You're there to enjoy yourself. No need in having to get definitive with the motivation of every one you meet. Relax and enjoy your trip. Have a good time as #1 priority. You're meeting others. I'd recommend to keep meeting them. Maybe that one shifts gears, maybe she don't

Online krimster2

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2019, 04:16:39 PM »
a woman’s sexuality is a magnificent creation of nature
that operates according to a natural process with natural principles
one element of this is that a woman can more easily access her libido
if she is free of any anxiety which otherwise tends to block such feelings

unless you’re a moron with no clue (I will mention no specific names here)
your  first objective assuming you want to help her access her libido
is to find and remove any anxiety causing stimulus that might block it

then once you got rid of the things that might inhibit a libido response
you provide things that might actually STIMULATE it...

it’s REAL simple
literally freakin cave men have done this 20,000 yr ago with no social media at all
otherwise none of you would’ve been here

oh my stimulating a woman's libido does take some effort
hopefully you won't find it too much of an imposition
tell me, do you complain when you're camping about collecting kindling and lighting a fire as well
because the wood just didn't burst into flames in your exalted presence
no, you don't complain about the fire?  that's good
but why do you complain about having to kindle a woman's fire?
I know the one I want to keep me warm
totally worth the minimal effort this requires
like all good behaviors
if you make a habit out of them
it doesn't feel like work


Pface Pfungus’s problem
is a total lack of connection with the girls TOTAL...lack...of...connection...
he can’t connect with ANY woman because of his inability to empathize with the feelings and needs of other people

It is almost a universal truth among narcissists that they tend to exaggerate their skills, accomplishments, and their level of intimacy with people
so reading mr beards trip report with a narcissist filter, the sexual escapades got eliminated and only the part about wimmin who stop contacting him after the third date remains (which was probably a longevity record, and shows just how bad things really are in Ukraine, that it took her 3 dates)

so based on that dating record, in freakin Ukraine
where wimmin have provided oral pleasure just to keep warm
you really think that if he just tweaked this variable or that variable all would be well?

really?  he’s NOT EVEN close
and he’s STILL not getting it and you guys are not helping him
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 04:33:04 PM by krimster2 »

Online Trenchcoat

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2019, 05:57:31 PM »
BB  --read what I say and then read it again!

Gator comments -- very good explanation --I commend it.

Boethius -- on costs - same.

Fuel is not cheap -- especially on a UKR budget.The cost of running a car -- comparable to the west.
Dance classes are paid in blocks -- in Kyiv UAH 800 - no big deal

Now on actually forking out  $-- it can be both ways . I have done it wrong both ways  !!   I have also done it right both ways !

In this case--good looking girl will not be short of offers re sex --  so ........

As to a future --  mm-- you will not get that far to find out  if you do nothing !

I refer to Steve comments in another thread -re sex tourism.

To repeat a comment made previously--  there is a cost in all of this - grin and bear it-- a lot of time can be saved by going with the flow to see what you have. Being Trenchcoat paranoid  about spending a few $ will guarantee  "failure" in the long term.

Comments in thread ( eg ML)  are not "wrong" -- but a valid opinion. But in my view- not the whole story

I actually went 'with the flow' with the second Kiev girl, I bought her some items in Kiev, I bought her even more in Cyprus. I have her a couple of hundred pound for English lessons as like you say they are done in blocks. In comparison to BB's spend out I spent out quite a lot more. BB's spend is not that great at the moment but I know how it quickly starts to grate when everything becomes a dig in pocket moment with a UW.

Point is that this girl could do things cheaper, she could get BB to go to her area, or being in Kiev she could use the tube or bus. She is choosing not to as she can get BB to pay for all. She herself probably gets cheap cat food but while BB is paying it might as well the the expensive stuffad it's not down on her account. Unless BB learns not to fall for the 'logical reason given by FSW for him to spend out' things will only get worse with this girl or another like her. Any answer than BB answering yes to her demands will be an improvement, I've been there, she may walk of but at least he'll find out earlier in the day that she's a waste of his time. At the moment he ain't even getting any favours in return so he's being assigned an even lower social value in her eyes than a guy she returns favours for him 'helping her out'.

BB in Ukraine being nice for the sake of it is seen as weakness, you can be nice in some ways just not by helping her out with stuff unless you are happy with a helping out for favours return which even that at the moment you aren't getting. It's all a game to a lot of these Ukrainian women, I personally think they get quite off on how well they can play the game whilst dating a guy.
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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2019, 06:13:39 PM »
Point is that this girl could do things cheaper, she could get BB to go to her area, or being in Kiev she could use the tube or bus. She is choosing not to as she can get BB to pay for all. She herself probably gets cheap cat food but while BB is paying it might as well the the expensive stuffad it's not down on her account. Unless BB learns not to fall for the 'logical reason given by FSW for him to spend out' things will only get worse with this girl or another like her. Any answer than BB answering yes to her demands will be an improvement, I've been there, she may walk of but at least he'll find out earlier in the day that she's a waste of his time. At the moment he ain't even getting any favours in return so he's being assigned an even lower social value in her eyes than a guy she returns favours for him 'helping her out'.

He was out a whole $75 plus the cost of dinner, and half of that $75 was for gas.

No, she can't just "take a bus" or the metro if she lives outside Kyiv.  Moreover, Kyiv is big - getting from one end to the other, even with the metro, can take as much as 3 hours. 

Quote
BB in Ukraine being nice for the sake of it is seen as weakness, you can be nice in some ways just not by helping her out with stuff unless you are happy with a helping out for favours return which even that at the moment you aren't getting.

Utter BS, proving yet again that you are clueless and ultimately, will fail.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Online Trenchcoat

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2019, 07:06:48 PM »
He was out a whole $75 plus the cost of dinner, and half of that $75 was for gas.

No, she can't just "take a bus" or the metro if she lives outside Kyiv.  Moreover, Kyiv is big - getting from one end to the other, even with the metro, can take as much as 3 hours. 

Utter BS, proving yet again that you are clueless and ultimately, will fail.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Really, you have a difference of opinion with 2tallbill, he thinks chances are she is a pro dater and in any case she is a lost cause as BB didn't stop her at the outset.

Anything can be explained away as a logical reason, UW can be very good at that. Regardless of the logical explanation BB can't get drawn into acquising to her demands it shows weakness regardless. Better he pay an Uber taxi driver, use train or whatever to go to her than be drawn into the payments spiral of relationship destruction, even if it costs him more. He needs to make it clear to her that he won't be paying for any random demands of hers until in a fully live together relationship. Only way this one can work.
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« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2019, 07:19:41 PM »
First, from the description there was no demand, merely a request to which he acquiesced. Secondly, a pro dater would not be trifling with $75, half of which was for gas, and an Uber to a village and back could easily be double that. Hi

I don’t need lectures in relationships from a 40 year old single man.

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« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2019, 07:58:29 PM »
First, from the description there was no demand, merely a request to which he acquiesced. Secondly, a pro dater would not be trifling with $75, half of which was for gas, and an Uber to a village and back could easily be double that. Hi

I don’t need lectures in relationships from a 40 year old single man.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Boe, maybe you should read entire opening post, sure sounds like a pro dater:

First date, ( dates only in evening) asks for 500 uah for gas, dinner, some toiletries


Second date , dance class and cat food ( as you will see, on another date girl will ask for money).


Third date, filled up car gas, dinner ( I presume), dance class with asking for 600 uah


Fourth date, asks for money for using aunt's car, cat food 800 uah
and hinting for European vacation.


 $75 is just beginning. It is as if building up of needs, don't know if you see this BB. I would think another introduction for money...…. needed for XXXX?


BB, do you think your choosing girls for the wrong reasons? Initially, you normally speak of a girls in glowing terms.
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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2019, 07:59:51 PM »
First, from the description there was no demand, merely a request to which he acquiesced. Secondly, a pro dater would not be trifling with $75, half of which was for gas, and an Uber to a village and back could easily be double that. Hi

I don’t need lectures in relationships from a 40 year old single man.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Boethius, getting into a relationship for a woman is not difficult, a woman can give birth and men will chase after women as most men want children. Being an everyday man and getting into relationship especially in the west now that is an achievement.

The best prodaters are the ones that start with a logical seemingly reasonable demand or request as you put it for a matter of fact expense. They may do several of these to test the guy before then gradually moving onto the less matter of fact expenses. By that time the guy has already paid for the other expenses so why should he have issue with any other, she has trained him like a dog. She will then push for more expensive stuff and more frequently as time goes on.

Standard pro daters who take the obvious path of upfront demanding the guy meets high price costs from the outset can lose out as many guys immediately rejects the blatent attempt. It's actually those prodaters that realise not to do that or even amateur pro daters who more naturally take the gentler route that do better, they have the guy hooked for the duration and suffer far less knock backs from the outset.

She may be an experienced or amateur pro dater that takes the subtle approach or she may just be a girl up to dating game play, may not even realise herself falling into crossing the line. Either way BB needs to decide what to do with the situation. I believe he should not keep paying out if he is not happy with it though, I think he should instead state the terms of the relationship to which she can either agree to or move on.
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« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2019, 08:03:36 PM »
Boe, maybe you should read entire opening post, sure sounds like a pro dater:

First date, ( dates only in evening) asks for 500 uah for gas, dinner, some toiletries


Second date , dance class and cat food ( as you will see, on another date girl will ask for money).


Third date, filled up car gas, dinner ( I presume), dance class with asking for 600 uah


Fourth date, asks for money for using aunt's car, cat food 800 uah
and hinting for European vacation.


 $75 is just beginning. It is as if building up of needs, don't know if you see this BB. I would think another introduction for money...…. needed for XXXX?


BB, do you think your choosing girls for the wrong reasons? Initially, you normally speak of a girls in glowing terms.

She didn’t ask for toiletries, he offered to pay.

Other than the dance lessons, I don’t see an issue here. Were she a pro dater, he’d be out a lot more than $75.

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« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2019, 08:04:30 PM »
ps. Think the English lessons mentioned earlier probably might have only cost me around the £120 mark, ie 10 lessons for £12 so think my £200 was my mind thinking it was a bit more than it was. Still goes to show that I did commit to a girl but paying out did me no favours. I would advise BB to address the problem rather than let it slide on.
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« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2019, 08:11:09 PM »
Boe, maybe you should read entire opening post, sure sounds like a pro dater:

First date, ( dates only in evening) asks for 500 uah for gas, dinner, some toiletries


Second date , dance class and cat food ( as you will see, on another date girl will ask for money).


Third date, filled up car gas, dinner ( I presume), dance class with asking for 600 uah


Fourth date, asks for money for using aunt's car, cat food 800 uah
and hinting for European vacation.


 $75 is just beginning. It is as if building up of needs, don't know if you see this BB. I would think another introduction for money...…. needed for XXXX?


BB, do you think your choosing girls for the wrong reasons? Initially, you normally speak of a girls in glowing terms.

Indeed, I would apply the same logic that if a girl survived well enough before  a WM's arrival she should not need to rely on the WM paying out beyond the usual basic entertainment costs while he is there.

I think BB stated she was hot little me in the 8-10 looks category, that is why I said on here that I'm staying clear of that category of girls, too many pro daters and the like. A real relationship is what I'm after and I would suggest BB also consider girls that are not so pretty but wanting an actual real life relationship.
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« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2019, 10:37:40 PM »
Thoughts?


You have doubts about the woman. Date tons of women until you find one that doesn't give you doubts.
There are people that will pass info about you and your family. Do not share info about yourself or share photos as they can search for you on the internet and distribute what they found since they are allowed to participate here.

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« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2019, 11:11:44 PM »
OMG.... more misogynistic twaddle



Boethius, getting into a relationship for a woman is not difficult,

WHY, do you have to keep proving you are clueless at this man / woman lark ?


The best prodaters are the ones that start with a logical seemingly reasonable demand or request as you put it for a matter of fact expense. They may do several of these to test the guy before then gradually moving onto the less matter of fact expenses. By that time the guy has already paid for the other expenses so why should he have issue with any other, she has trained him like a dog. She will then push for more expensive stuff and more frequently as time goes on.

While you continue think like this, you will never pull




Standard pro daters who take the obvious path of upfront demanding the guy meets high price costs from the outset can lose out as many guys immediately rejects the blatent attempt. It's actually those prodaters that realise not to do that or even amateur pro daters who more naturally take the gentler route that do better, they have the guy hooked for the duration and suffer far less knock backs from the outset.

She may be an experienced or amateur pro dater that takes the subtle approach or she may just be a girl up to dating game play, may not even realise herself falling into crossing the line. Either way BB needs to decide what to do with the situation. I believe he should not keep paying out if he is not happy with it though, I think he should instead state the terms of the relationship to which she can either agree to or move on.

Trench

You've not actually dated that many lasses, let alone FSU one's and you're back to posting like you 'know' ....and proving you don't

I see W guys pitch up in the FSU, flash some cash and expect the lass to 'put out'... then then they 'disappear' - as they are saving for the next adventure..

IF you are a nice person even 'pro daters' will realise you are too good to lose ..;)

We, the W. blokes, have only ourselves to blame .. going to the same cities, avoiding nations needing visas and failing to understand that men are expected to pay for dates in the FSU.

'We' take the piss and the lasses do, too ... THAT is why one should chat BEFORE going on the equivalent of a blind date...

Would you go to meet a woman in Ireland, whose photo you had seen and the meeting had been arranged by a third party in the 21C?

There's an industry built around the 'soft saps' and novices who want to join this 'game' - for that is what it is... and YOU are one of those guys.. 

I've BEEN one of those guys... 

With the language barrier and failure to 'get' the difference between being 'greedy' ( to her) and 'spoiling' we ( w.men) are walking in a minefield and the only thing you keep getting right is that 'chemistry' thing... i.e you'll figure out if the lass is 'in to you' or not by kindness on her part - shown to you and her making sure no one else cheats you. You'll see it in her eyes...

Really...STOP with this need to 'prove yourself' on here, as some sort of 'expert' on FSU women and FFS plan to meet at least one interesting woman before you go to Kyiv - or you'll be wasting your time ..

IF things do not work out, there's alway the Lisdoonvarna Matchmaking Festival – the biggest event of its kind in Europe - in September ;)

http://www.matchmakerireland.com/





 
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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2019, 11:17:56 PM »
You have doubts about the woman. Date tons of women until you find one that doesn't give you doubts.

..and remember, she'll have been dating lots of guys - if you both follow BillyB's advice - to the letter ;)

It's good advice .. it's just some ( men and women) get addicted to dating and even seek 'admiration' for having  girls in the FSU that might be expecting flowers on Intl Ladies Day .. :wallbash:


Guys can be 'pro-daters', too ! ;)
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« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2019, 07:07:18 AM »
BB, despite Mobe questioning my experience one experience I have that from what I have seen on here that he does not is with a girl like the one you have. The trouble with a girl that you have is that it is difficult to apply the standard pro dater label to her because she doesn't easily fall into the standard idea/description of a pro dater. That what makes such girls so damn good and confusing to the guy just exactly who they are dealing with. The best way to put it is that you do not have a 'good girl', she may not be the baddest girl around but she is not a good girl. This of course maybe why she is still available at 34 despite looking hot. We are of course assuming she is not married or has an 'other man' etc, to which I don't see any point worrying about that it will get you nowhere. What is a point to consider though is that it doesn't sound like you have visited her home address yet? Unless I missed that. Establishing a more domestic footing for a relationship is far more important than spending out on stuff. If she is not prepared to do that then that is a big red flag time. She is of course not immediately going to open up her entire life to you but I think one step towards a more domestic footing is reasonable enough after your time together. I think the best you can hope for is that this girl has been passed over by Ukrainian men as she is a bit difficult on the demand front. If you can temper that then there might still be some go in a relationship with her.
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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2019, 09:42:56 AM »
Gentleman or Chump?
I think you are being a gentleman with chump change. I also think you are wasting time with this one, which is far more valuable than some pet food. Unless you want her to be a playmate for awhile, move on because she is establishing a selfish framework for the relationship.
  My experience was 25 years ago, and it matched Bills opinion about the taxi. 

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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2019, 11:56:18 AM »
Follow the advice you have been given and your gut feeling. You only met her recently and are not in the relationship stage so paying for daily things or talk of a vacation should give you pause. Paying for things for your dates such as taxi, etc, are fine. Remember that even nice girls can have high expectations if they are attractive. The challenge is that now that you have started, it can be hard to stop without her thinking something is wrong. But if you slow down with the spending and she has a bad attitude about it, it's time to rethink where it is going.
   I can relate to being in your situation. There were times I had to walk away when the priority went from the relationship to me paying for everything. Some of these women were so great to get along with at first and at some point in the relationship, (I tend to have these problems happen more on the 2nd visit than the 1st), the priority became money. Where these women bad? I didn't feel that these women were bad since they had normal lives with family, friends, etc. Plus I was getting all of the benefits of a relationship so I couldn't complain. But their expectations were not good and rarely could be met by the average guy.
   That's what make these relationships challenging. Many women don't have money or the things they want so they date us. They may also have some feelings towards us or enjoy our company which makes decisions cloudy for us. The really bad ones we can avoid. The ones in between keep us coming back for more.

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« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2019, 12:23:06 PM »
For sure, the things she wants you need to hang out like a carrot BB for whatever you want be it more intimacy, domestic relationship, etc. At the moment you are giving everything away for free. Attach a 'when we are at this or that stage in a relationship' that sort of expenditure is appropriate. If she rejects it, play around with her by trying to ascertain what she might settle for. Remember, there is no need to fold immediately at the first mention of her demand. She will probably get off on not getting her way so easily so long as you don't push too hard or stay too stubborn in your side. FSW are logical after all so I think she'll stay in the game so long as she has not got what she wants. Use this girl as a learning aid if nothing else. Toy around with her about the prospect of going abroad and the great holidays you have had :) but don't firmly agree to anything. You've already shown her you've got what she wants, now let's see how badly she wants it!
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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2019, 12:38:40 PM »
Use this girl as a learning aid if nothing else. Toy around with her about the prospect of going abroad and the great holidays you have had :) but don't firmly agree to anything. You've already shown her you've got what she wants, now let's see how badly she wants it!

This mentality is part of the reason you will fail.  You have a "market" approach to relationships. so stop posting here how what  you want is love.  Your attitude proves you don't.

Yes, sure, lie and lead on a woman for the benefit of your penis.  Waste time and energy on someone you have no interest in.  What forty plus man needs to "practice" and "learn" about women???

I think this particular woman already has a man, which is why the "events" have been so "pious".

As for cabs, I am just saying what the practice is in Kyiv.  A man either escorts a woman home, or gives her cab fare, if he is able to do so. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 12:40:59 PM by Boethius »
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

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« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2019, 01:21:23 PM »
Thanks for all your good advice and lively debate.  I decided not to pursue things with the girl.  Maybe she is bad, maybe just spoiled... it doesn’t really matter. It’s obvious she is playing some sort of game. Like some others, I have avoided the “super hot” women for the most part.  Her pictures online were not that good, so I thought she was more like. 7-8.  I was blown away when we met.

My next move was against the advice of many, and I know it. Last night I got a call from the girl I originally came here to see. She invited me to hang out with some friends at a neighborhood pub and watch a football game. Since I’m leaving in a few days, I don’t really have time to strike up a new relationship, so I decided to meet her.

We had a nice talk and both apologized for things we did that led to our breakup. I ended up taking her back to my apartment (not for sex).  We really get along and it’s so comfortable... how a relationship should be.  It made me realize how wrong everything was with the “hot girl”

I realized that I had gotten this nice girl only a couple small presents.  She never asked for gifts or money and just liked me for who I am. I never had to do anything to impress her.  She prefers staying in to going out and spending money.  When we stay in, she cooks dinner for me, even if she isn’t hungry.

I am realizing that maybe I had my “dream girl” from the beginning.  If not her, I will o my focus on this type of girl and leave the “super hot” ones to the other guys.

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« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2019, 04:08:52 PM »
Thanks for all your good advice and lively debate.  I decided not to pursue things with the girl.  Maybe she is bad, maybe just spoiled... it doesn’t really matter. It’s obvious she is playing some sort of game. Like some others, I have avoided the “super hot” women for the most part.  Her pictures online were not that good, so I thought she was more like. 7-8.  I was blown away when we met.

My next move was against the advice of many, and I know it. Last night I got a call from the girl I originally came here to see. She invited me to hang out with some friends at a neighborhood pub and watch a football game. Since I’m leaving in a few days, I don’t really have time to strike up a new relationship, so I decided to meet her.

We had a nice talk and both apologized for things we did that led to our breakup. I ended up taking her back to my apartment (not for sex).  We really get along and it’s so comfortable... how a relationship should be.  It made me realize how wrong everything was with the “hot girl”

I realized that I had gotten this nice girl only a couple small presents.  She never asked for gifts or money and just liked me for who I am. I never had to do anything to impress her.  She prefers staying in to going out and spending money.  When we stay in, she cooks dinner for me, even if she isn’t hungry.

I am realizing that maybe I had my “dream girl” from the beginning.  If not her, I will o my focus on this type of girl and leave the “super hot” ones to the other guys.
Good post  :clapping:
Read : "Operation white panther"
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Being a gentleman or a chump?
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2019, 04:29:01 PM »
But isn't this gal the same one that drank too much ?????????
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

 

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