Why RW marry abroad?

[dfb]

Before I married my wife, I asked her why she wanted to marry a foreigner.  She replied that a significant portion of men of her age, born late 1960’s were either killed or damaged (psychologically) by the war in Afghanistan 12/25/79 – 03/15/88; therefore, there is a disproportionate number of men vs. women in the FSU (at least in the Belarus region).  In addition, she stated that “marriage material” men were already taken, so the only choice for a marriage material husband is to go outside of the FSU. 

What other reasons/responses do other RW give this question?

[Turboguy]

The one I get the most is the the men there drink too much Vodka and are not faithful.

[beattledog]

i have been told all the reasons that you gentleman gave above.

beattledog

[Zhena]

Another question -why do you guys look abroad?
About the drinkers is true,but not so much though; about unfaithfulness more true-really,the men here are spoilt by the huge number of free beautiful women;here the women willing to be married and most of the couples marry in the young age. If a woman will miss that period,she meets some problems with finding a free man.

[Turboguy]

I think another factor is that if a woman has a child she becomes a lot less desirable there than she would be here.  I have heard that a lot of the men there will not accept another man's child.  Here we usually try to treat them just as if they were our own.

When my gal from Rosov was visiting me in LA, I asked her why she was looking for a foreign husband.  Her answer was that men in Russia do not want her.   Not sure if it is the late 30's age or having one child.  Maybe both.

I think that missing the optimum age of marriage can happen here.  Many here choose to marry at a later age, yet if you are a guy in your late 30's early 40's it is nearly impossible to find a good woman.   All you get are overweight gals with 2 or 3 kids. I guess that is OK if you want an overweight girl with 3 kids but for the rest of the guys..........................

[prince_alfie]

Turboguy you are right on point. A true gentleman's word. 

[Doug S]

Reality check...

They "marry abroad" to improve their financial situations.

But wait, it's not as bad as it sounds, not such a hard pill for you idealistic Western bachelors to swallow, if you consider...

Russian women are intuitively superior to women of other cultures in in a feminine, maternal sense. It's a by-product of their situation.

They know that an improved financial situation will translate into more stability.

They know that more stability will greatly increase the odds of a successful and lasting marriage.

They know a successful and lasting marriage will result in the own happiness, plus greatly contribute to the survival and well-being of any offspring.

If they can get passion and true love thrown into the package, best of all. But survival of the species is paramount (species being RW), and true love and passion can and will be sacrificed if necessary, maybe dealt with later.

Everything else is just pride and rationalizing on both sides of the fence - them rationalizing why they're doing it; us rationailzing why they're doing it.

Yes, a lot of Russian guys got zapped in Afghanistan. And yes, a lot of them are drunks, hit women, etc. But that's just convenient. If they wanted to find a suitable guy in their own town, they could. My Olga had one. Fortunately for me, I had one or two things up on him. One of those, of course, was living in a better economy. (It was still a close race that I would not have won if it weren't for my stunning good looks and marvelous dancing ability.)

If you can learn to accept this, see through the rationalizing, view the situation clearly; then focus on helping them achieve that goal, but insist they achieve it with the true love and passion part being mandatory not optional; you'll succeed and live happily ever after with a nice Russian woman.

But if you let them or yourself succumb to the rationalizations; let them compromise by saving the species but forfeiting the true love and passion part; you may be in for a world of woe.

And they will do it if you let them or enable them.

You have to be strong. Don't go after a Russian woman who isn't sincerely attracted to you, who doesn't clearly demonstrate that te true love and passion is there.

I guess you are saying "well, duh." of course not. But you will be surprised at how many guys will talk themselves into believing it really exists because they are infatuated with a particular Russian woman, a particular look, combination of hair and eye color, big boos, small boobs, etc.  

She is going to be the last one to tell you it isn't really there (the true love and passion). rather, she is going to let you believe what you want to believe to promote the survival of the species; sort out the details later (after it's too late for you).

Force yourself to focus on Russian women who really might have true love and passion for you. Try to smoke out whether their feelings in these areas are true or just conveniently agreed to.

This will most likely mean considering a Russian woman who wasn't the ideal you started out with when you first started this process. Don't think of it as "lowering" your standards. Think of it as refining" your standards. She's out there, but she's a needle in a haystack. Your female Russian Doppleganger.

But please, stop the rationalizing. It's a diversion from the real problem at hand and can lead you into dangerous territory. My Russian wife never says anything bad about Russian men, and I never say anything bad about American women. We justtry to say good things about each other.

DS

[Son of Clyde]

I used to think RW married abroad for a better life.
Truth is, there are many good things about Russia and Ukraine except the economy. The people are very loyal to family and friends.

I think it is stability they look for and they perceive older AM to be stable and able to provide. The better life they seek can be seen as materialistic but many have not had all the material things. They will buy nice clothes but the job market in FSU is not good for men or women. I don't think many can afford to own a car even if they have a valid drivers license.

I am thinking they are looking to a country that will provide a future because in the FSU there is no indication where the future might lead.

Maybe I am wrong but it is how I feel. Try looking for an AW 20 years your junior. It rarely, if ever, will happen.

[Maxx2]

I think that missing the optimum age of marriage can happen here. 

That is what happened to Gary (42) in my thread. He lives in a community where only 2.2% of the population is divorced. Very stable and most women his age are taken especially if they attractive. Almost all my older American men friends who are not married rarely even get a date much less with a serious prospect for a wife. A good looking woman age 40 or so who becomes available through divorce or widowhood gets swooped up fast. Rarely do they stay unmarried more that a year or two. America is the mirror image to the FSU in this regard.   

Maxx

[Muj]

Here, the good ones marry by 2 or 3 years after college.  Actually the younger women not yet married mostly looking for the party life. 

[BC]

Maybe, in a way this is a fight against the application of Darwin's theories to man.

just a screwy thought...

[PeeWee]

I realize the question was why RW marry abroad. Expand that to, why does any woman marry abroad? She is not happy with her present location and or situation for many reasons. I think Turbo and Doug listed good reasons. Consider the total female population of the FSU. Match it to the total number of FSU women that you can find available that wish to marry abroad. I bet the percent is tiny.

How many AW are in the meantime also seeking to marry abroad? Asian women? I'd think that a few are but most are going to stay were they are and never have a thought in their minds other than to marry a man who lives within their native country.

Every woman has her own reason. The reasons that are suggested to us are a culmination of all of those reasons. A better life for her children, she very much dislikes her environment, she is ambitious, she is adventerous, she has family or friends already living in that country, she is running away from something or someone. Every RW that I have talked to has told me about her girlfriend and her girlfriend's men. They all have men. Be it a married lover or a single and potential marriage partner.

Peewee

[Turboguy]

I think there is also a certain romantic element in marrying a mysterious stranger from a far away land.   I think some might be surprised how many citizens of England, Australia, Canada, Italy, marry American men and women

When it comes to the MOB market there are three main markets.   The Asian market, led by the Philippines, with Thailand also good, Malaysia is significant and China being the high growth region and expanding fast.   Next the South American market.  This has been steady and strong and also includes Central America and the Caribbean.  Then of course the Russian market which seems like the best is in the past.  I have seen some speculation that even with all the agency's working now that in 5 or ten years it will be history there.

For anyone who thinks money or the improvement of economic conditions is not the major factor look at those areas.   They all have week economies in common.  The Philippines have a high degree of English language in common which makes it a plus.  The MOB scene in the FSU seems to be declining in direct proportion to the improvement in the economy.

[Bruce]

Turbo - one hidden gem country I would urge those to consider if they fancy Asian women is Japan.  There are a suprisingly high number of women who look for Americans due to the societal norms of Japan. 

Russia - Most women I run into who do not like Russian men classify them according to three evils ie. They will either:  1.  Cheat on the woman; 2. Have alcoholism; or 3.  Beat their wives;  Since there are supposedly so many RM who fall into one or more of the three categories above alot of RW, especially a girl who was divorced to a RM who fit into one or more of the categories above, will consider a foreign man  .

[Turboguy]

Japan does have some unusual attitudes.  I have never seen them very heavily into the MOB scene but I have been concentrating on FSU women for a long time and things change so I could be wrong. 

If someone wanted to persue an Asian woman the Japanese gals are much more educated than some of the others and could be a good choice.  I have a feeling guys will not be reading these posts and making a mad dash to Goggle looking for a good Asian agency.

I think 10 years from now those looking for a wife with good family values, a big age difference and a willingness to accept differences AW will not may be stuck with the Asian and SA markets.  We are not done yet though.

[andrewfi]

If you hear a woman telling you any, but one, of the cliches spouted out above and pbviously beleived by some of the posters, then you can be assured that you are being lied to.

There is only ONE reason a woman crosses the threshold of a marriage agency.

MONEY.

But if she were to tell you guys that then you would not buy.

As Doug suggests this is not all bad, but then don't get hooked on any kind of image or fantasy that he is also trying to sell you. The ones in agencies, almost by definition will be more venal, less family oriented, less honest, less settled - or likely to settle, less loyal than her peers.

Some exceptions yes and each of the guys above who is married/engaged/whatever will tell you his inamorata is different whilst largely accepting the truth of what I have written.

If you want to find a woman who embodies the cliche view of Russian women then never look for women who by their actions least embody those attributes. Ah, biut that is the problem isn't it - how many of you will ever be able to look outside the agency bubble?

[55North]

Isn't it just possible that 2 people, he 57, she 46, find each other through an agency, and, with almost indecent haste, fall for each other.  No innocence here.  Neither of us have, or want children.  We both love to travel for the hell of it.  Both of us have 'specialised' in foreign liaisons throughout life (even when in our home countries).  It is a meeting of lonely equals.  Oh, and she's an English teacher, so nothing much lost in translation.
   
But I would add that, in the first instance, she, and her friends just want to leave Ukraine.  Their lives are slipping away and there may be a certain desparation for some.  The history of some who made it is not pretty, divorcing for the money, with no love to be lost.  But my UW talks of such with distain, and while she has travelled, she never married.  Until now, soon, with me.  I trust her absolutely.  I have independent contact with her close friends and family.  She involves me in discussion about what to do with her property.  She has never asked for funds.  We talk on the phone most nights like pals, like we've known each other for years (which it's beginning to feel like, yet it's only 9 months).
 
I only have one concern, but I think that's worth a new thread........

[TexasBoar]

There is only ONE reason a woman crosses the threshold of a marriage agency.

MONEY.

. . . and this is substantively different from an AW exactly how? 

Money, financial stability, the ability to support a family, is something EVERY woman looks for in a man, much like "hottie" status, or the ability to engender a positive response from his penis, is something EVERY man looks for in a woman.

Anyone sez otherwise is lying through their teeth! 

Question should be . . . does it END there? How we get each other's attention is, in the end, largely immaterial. It's how we keep it that counts.  After all, while I'm definitely a complete newbie to all this, one thing I've gathered via the archives here and elsewhere is that many, perhaps most, of these women, have a dozen or more suitors online, sometimes MANY more.  So . . . given that most of these men do, in fact, have "money" . . . some other criteria must surely also be "in play?"

I'm not one to fault a woman for thinking rationally about her future, myself.  After all, I generally think rationally about my, aaaah, chances . . . right?

~Boar

[Bruno]

Ok, let see what FSU people ( women and men who are not seeking a foreign partner, street interview ) reply to the following question :
Why are so many Russian women looking to marry a man from the west. Is this because of more money and a better life or is it that Russian men do not treat Russian women well?

- Ksenya,woman, 30 years old, English teacher, Moscow
I think it's the second reason. Well, probably both really. I think Russian men are just not men at all because they treat women very badly. They are just pigs, they are just animals. It's not so much money because many Russians are happy to go to any country, a rich country or a poor country, it doesn't matter. They just want to get away from the men here.

- Fedor, man, 31 years old, programmer and blues promoter, Moscow
Some women consider this as a form of career - to marry well. And it's a good one to marry an American because of better life standards. But this is risky stuff, because if someone comes especially to find a wife, there's more chance that he's a maniac. I don't really think that there are really so many Russian women hunting for foreigners. There are plenty of similar American girls, who want to have an easier life by marrying an American lawyer or dentist.

- Svetlana, woman, 20 years old, law student, Moscow
I think both. The first reason because of the economic situation here which is bad, but also maybe because in Russia there are more women than men. There is a perception that Russian men beat Russian women but I don't think this is very widespread.

- Alexander, man, 23 year old, machine-operator, Kazan
They just want to have better life for themselves and their children.

- Milya, woman, 21 year old, manager of foreign trade department, Kazan
Unfortunately, it’s because of money, they are just looking for better life.

- Regina, woman, 22 year old, a manager, Kazan
They suppose that they will be able to find happiness abroad (not always).

- Oksana, woman, 30 year old, literature agent, Vladimir
Woman has to believe in something. We need illusions and sweet dreams in our life. Some think they will get a better treatment, some think they will be happy. Everyone has his or her own understanding of love.

- Dina, woman,  21 year old, aerobics instructor, Ivanovo
Yes, only because of more money. Many of the girls that I familiar with married an American man because of this reason. But you know what? They all, listen to me, all are very sorry for acting this way. Yesterday I received a letter from my class-mate. She cries in that letter. She says “I don’t need their comfort!”. She has found a Russian store in their town where she can buy Russian cartoons, movies and books and that store is her only bright spot in life.

- Irina, women, student of Financial Academy, Vladimir
I think they are looking for easy money not for true love. I have friends. They are young and healthy. They don’t want to work hard, think hard, try hard… To find easy life is their motto.

- Denis, man, 25 year old, own music and video shop in front of Semenovskaya metro station, Moscow
I don't think that many want to do it. Those, who do just want money.

- Ilya, men, 19 year old, art student, Moscow
Those who want (I don't think there are many, though) might think that foreigners are more intellectual and can provide better life. I think that foreigners are not more intellectual than Russians, but surely they have more money.

- Sitora, woman, 21 year old, student & works as a producer, Moscow
To be able to live in a calm country and not to be afraid for their children.

- Slava, man,  35 year old, driver, Belarus
I don't think there are many women like this, but the reason might be the money.

- Anna, woman, 40 year old, clerk in a government Institute
Russian women have too many illusions. Russia was closed and separated from the world for years, so people here considered that somewhere else life is better. Women dream more than men, and they dream that somewhere else they can have more happiness.

- Natalia, woman, 17 years old, studying
They want to try something new. They are not patriots. They think life abroad is better. I guess, people are the same all over the world.

- Vita, woman, in her late twenties, working in the field of cosmetics
Money is the only reason. Women just want to improve their lifes.

[SANDRO43]

Consider the total female population of the FSU. Match it to the total number of FSU women that you can find available that wish to marry abroad. I bet the percent is tiny.

Over the past few years I made a survey of FSU dating sites : I came up with some 450+ sites listing a total of almost 1,300,000 FSUW profiles, which would account roughly for 1% of the FSU female population (details at http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/elencositi-eng.htm)

[Turboguy]

Personally, I don't think it is "Money"  for most of them.   I think it is "a better life"   Money is a part of a better life but it is not everything that is included.  I think it also includes more opportunities, a better life for their children, a husband who might be able to be more faithful and drink less and many other things.   

I have also noticed an awful lot of the profiles I read have a teenage son.  I wonder if keeping them out of the military might also be a factor.

[Turboguy]

Over the past few years I made a survey of FSU dating sites : I came up with some 450+ sites listing a total of almost 1,300,000 FSUW profiles, which would account roughly for 1% of the FSU female population (details at http://www.floriani.it/sitirussi/elencositi-eng.htm)

Sandro, did you also factor in that the average gal probalby has her profile on 3 sites or more?   That may make a big decrease in your 1,300,000 profiles.   I have a feeling 300,00 to 400,00 might be more accurate.  Another factor that may come into play is that as we have Yahoo and Match there are sites that try to match RM and RW.  Were they factored out?  Just some thoughts I had.  You furnish some great info.

[andrewfi]

TG ~ I love you for your public nievete! I am sure that if you were, in the flesh as you profess to be on the haunted fishbowl that you would have been clubbed to death decades ago.

Just a little dead easy question for you.

How much of your 'better life' would exist if it were not for a significant amount of money and how much of that better life would remain if you had only the same income as your young targets?

So, now that we know the answer, how is it not all about the money?

TexasBoar ~ I would disagree a little, in one respect and urge to to consider the realities in another. In US and Western Europe most women earn almost the same as men in equivalent fields. In the US and Western Europe there is a deal of social support to women who have family and no 'man' in their lives. This means that the imperative to 'marry up' is, whilst still a factor, much reduced. Just look at recent US history to see this effect.

But, in your community, how many women are willing to move country to acheive their goals (however they might be expressed)? Very few, thus we can sensibly infer that women who are willing to move country and marry, usually, a significantly older man, one that they do not know very well must be pretty motivated. If we agree that the motivation is money, or more generally and possibly more correctly economic, then consider how much more motivated these women are by what we agree is their primary motivation? That difference in degree is what is dangerously hidden under the facile statement made by many men 'well all women are motivated by money'.

Also, I would tend to argue that money (economics) is rarely the ONLY motivation. I am sure that most of the wome want to marry a guy they like and want to pursue a lifestyle (paid for by lots of money - in relative terms) that they want to enjoy. But it is the difference in economic staus that fuels this industry, it is a classsic marketplace.

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, did you also factor in that the average gal probalby has her profile on 3 sites or more?   That may make a big decrease in your 1,300,000 profiles.  I have a feeling 300,00 to 400,00 might be more accurate.  Another factor that may come into play is that as we have Yahoo and Match there are sites that try to match RM and RW.  Were they factored out?  Just some thoughts I had.  You furnish some great info.

TG, 1,300,000 is a gross figure of PROFILES on FSUW sites for non-FSUM, and yes, I am aware that many FSUW post multiple profiles to increase their exposure (my personal, unpublished statistics on a sample of some 600 girls is 4.1 profiles/girl over a period of 3 years, and many girls with more than 5 simultaneously-active profiles eventually turn out to be scammers). However, since I did not include Yahoo, Match and other multinational sites in my list, the actual figure may be anywhere between your estimate and mine.

One interesting fact that I can infer from the site newsletters I receive listing new registrations, is that the number of FSUWs trying this approach is on the increase recently.

[Turboguy]

Andrewfin.  Thanks.  I always wondered what all those bumps on my head were.   I tried one of those fortune tellers that read the bumps on your skull.  She ran her hand over my head, turned to me, and said.  Do you piss of a lot of people?

I think most people have more than one motive in their decisions.  I will agree that on average probably 60% of the reasons are money related and that for a small percentage (maybe not that small) it is 100% of the reason.

Sandro,  Thanks for the clarification.  I am sort of glad to hear it is on the increase.  I think I have felt that as the economy improves there it would decrease.  I will be happy to be wrong about that.