KenC's road to happiness..

[Muj]

Ken,

You argue a strongly for a guy jumping on the plane to meet a woman.  A good point also, you were prepared when you met the one of your dreams.  I don't agree that every guy should expect to spend many trips to find a good gal.  Many are there.  Many guys prove ill prepared and closed minded to aspects of any differences from the USA.  They either go home or find a sympathetic ear over an expensive dinner and fail.  Congrats on your anniversary .

[Maxx2]

I see your points Ken. In a way my six trips to Russia to visit my wife was something similar to what you did. That is I spent a fair amount of time with her (4 months). Only in my case I had made the commitment (marriage in Russia) so when I seen some of the cracks in her facade my "wife loyalty"  kicked in. Besides I thought I could overcome any problem. Boy was I wrong.

I really recommend to others to not commit until enough time goes by and is spent with them to see them in unguarded moments. That requires getting the notion out of one's head that "she is the one!" and keep one eye open for scamming, incompatibility or craziness.

Maxx

[KenC]

I see your points Ken. In a way my six trips to Russia to visit my wife was something similar to what you did. That is I spent a fair amount of time with her (4 months). Only in my case I had made the commitment (marriage in Russia) so when I seen some of the cracks in her facade my "wife loyalty"  kicked in. Besides I thought I could overcome any problem. Boy was I wrong.

I really recommend to others to not commit until enough time goes by and is spent with them to see them in unguarded moments. That requires getting the notion out of one's head that "she is the one!" and keep one eye open for scamming, incompatibility or craziness.

Maxx

Maxx,
Just to make a point and please do not think I am picking on you.  How long were your 6 trips to Russia in duration?  If they were a week or even two weeks long, just about anyone can put up a good show for that amount of time.  It could have been, "OK my Maxx is coming, time for me to put on a happy face and act like I love him."  Six trips is a lot of trips, but in face to face time it is a drop in the bucket.  I don't have an answer for the obvious question of how one is to over come this handicap.  I do know that because Lena spoke decent English, we talked on the phone every day.  Not once a week or a couple of times a week, but every single day.  And we talked about everything from politics, to morals, to child raising, to sex.  We knew each other frontwards and backwards even before we met. 

Of course I did discount a lot of it as a fantasy relationship stuff before we actually met.  I dated a lot of AW that I had met via the Internet and I learned first hand that all that it seems via a computer or even the phone is not necessarily what it will be in person.  So with Lena, I was like wow, this is very cool, but let me wait until we meet to see if it is real or Memorex.  I went to meet Lena hoping for success but fully expecting it to fail.  Is that being a pessimist?  Or a realist?  Like I said above, I went there with an anticipation of maybe a 5% chance of success and considering the circumstances, I think that was being very optimistic.
KenC

[Maxx2]

I spent about 3 weeks at a time with her. But she kept up the act with some shows of her true feelings towards me. What put it all together for me is what she said to me after she got to America. But first I will tell you Elvira was a light sleeper and I sleep like a bear in hibernation and sound allot like one too. So what she would do is drink two bottles of peva "Pete" and eat a bag of peanuts before bedtime. Then she would sleep like a log. I have slept with other women before so I know there are women I am compatable with in this regard but I didn't know I wasn't with her. It never occured to me. So when she got here she decided to tell me (after legally entering the US) what she really thought of me (on the fifth day of her arrival). This happened because I asked her when she was going to start sleeping with me. She told me with all the bluntness Russian people are know for as I sat there and stared at her. She exaggerated everything with wild gestures about how loathsome I was to her. Her eyes were filled with hate. The look of shock on my face must have made her realise this wasn't a smart thing to do. So she told me she might try sleeping with me in a few weeks but she would not use alcohol because she said she didn't want to become an alcoholic. The reason I am telling you all this is because of a question I asked her. "You slept with me in Russia why not here?" she said "I never slept when you where in Russia". So yes she put on a act with aid of peva for those 2 - 3 weeks that I was there. She deeply resented me for the need to use me for what she felt was her right, US citizenship. But she covered this up with allot "honeys", smiles and holding my arm or hand. Once she got to America we walked 3 feet apart. She wore her hair pulled back tightly in a bun. Wore dull clothes and looked and acted like a completely different person than she was in Russia. This was from day one.

Maxx       

[PeeWee]

I

BTW one of my criteria for a RW is she is to be a sound sleeper...

Maxx       

Would that make a difference? I ask because when I close the eyes within a matter of seconds I am down for the count. I wake up, what seems like but a few minutes later, the next morning. Any thing could have happened during the night and I am not aware of it. I would not want some sneaky chick lurking around during the night and I don't know what she is up to any more than you do.

peewee 

[prince_alfie]

KenC, I want to express my appreciation for you standing up to the bastards over at RWG.  Geewhiz, you needn't justify your romantic love for Lena and what not. I have to blame our image culture for being so judgmental by looking at face value. Not a good thing! I think that Lena is a most wonderful match and you needn't worry about other people's silly opinions at all. Do your new thing 

[Turboguy]

I have not been on RWG in months.  It sounds like you were on the receiving end over there KenC.  Sorry to hear that.  You and Lena have a good relationship and are a good couple.   There is no excuse for that.

[Maxx2]

I have to blame our image culture for being so judgmental

That is probably the #1 reason why lurkers remain lurkers and the curious become passerbyes. It gets to be like Junior high sometimes. These are not stand up guys. They are the male versions of Paris Hilton.

Maxx

[prince_alfie]

Oops, I thought the male version of Paris Hilton was the guy who caused the Trojan War. (Got my references mixed up.) 

[Son of Clyde]

I am seeing that many guys will not post their negative experiences on the board. It hits too close to home. KenC and I have gone at it time and time again. KenC, you seem like an ok guy who enjoys a good debate. I was never on the debating team and I hate conflict but I am learning how to develop a thick skin. I am sure KenC and his beautiful wife do not have a 100% perfect marriage. Who does? If a marriage does last 7 years it means to me that the two partners are trying to make it work.

If two people have a horrendous marriage from day one they should get out ASAP. I am hoping people don't wait 6 or 7 years to end a horrible relationship.

Why have I tried to make my marriage work? Because I feel her love and even though it is not always perfect we are working through the problems.
I was advised to leave my personal life off the board so this is about as personal as it will get. We are working through our differences and making it work. For RW it may take some time to learn how the US works. You can tell them things until you are blue in the face. One lesson they learn on their own will make a world of difference. You can guide them, but the ultimate test is through their own experiences.

[KenC]

KenC, I want to express my appreciation for you standing up to the bastards over at RWG.  Geewhiz, you needn't justify your romantic love for Lena and what not. I have to blame our image culture for being so judgmental by looking at face value. Not a good thing! I think that Lena is a most wonderful match and you needn't worry about other people's silly opinions at all. Do your new thing 

Thanks, I guess, but let us leave that on the other board.  My story here wasn't meant to be a "justification" for my romantic love for Lena, but as an explanation of how it came about.  I thought that Photoguy deserved an answer for what I thought was a sincere question.  I also think there are many here that are trying to figure out just what to do and how.  What works?  And what doesn't work?  Not every case will fit into a nice little standard plan labled "success" or "failure" but maybe there are some basic elements common to those who actually succeeded or failed.  Before Turbo jumps on here and say "but it is still possible.......", let me say that there are always going to be exceptions to the rule.  Hell. logic tells me that a 25 year age difference should be a tough obstacle to over come, yet I know of quite a few couples that seem to have been successful with a large age difference!  We have quite a few members here that fall into the 15 to 20 year age gap.

Some of the basic elements that I have noticed in successful marriages:
The couple took their time and got to know each other well
They had a common language
The RW wasn't desperate to leave and the guy wasn't desperate to have a wife.
The guys were experienced around women and had been married before
The guys had good income
The guys got close with their wife's family (could be children or parents)

I don't know if that helps anyone or not and I am sure there are more similarities that I cannot think of right now.  But even if you have all of these covered does not insure success because each couple is unique onto itself and no one can predict how two individuals will interact. 

I do know that the guys that seem to fail in this process seem to pile up the "exceptions to the rules" though.  They seem to make excuses for why their relationship is different from the norm.  It is like "we don't need more time to know each other", "I can read her body language" or the classic "it is different for us."  My logic told me that I was really pushing the age gap farther than I was comfortable with, so I refused to take on any additional risks.
KenC

[KenC]

I am seeing that many guys will not post their negative experiences on the board. It hits too close to home. KenC and I have gone at it time and time again. KenC, you seem like an ok guy who enjoys a good debate. I was never on the debating team and I hate conflict but I am learning how to develop a thick skin. I am sure KenC and his beautiful wife do not have a 100% perfect marriage. Who does? If a marriage does last 7 years it means to me that the two partners are trying to make it work.

If two people have a horrendous marriage from day one they should get out ASAP. I am hoping people don't wait 6 or 7 years to end a horrible relationship.

Why have I tried to make my marriage work? Because I feel her love and even though it is not always perfect we are working through the problems.
I was advised to leave my personal life off the board so this is about as personal as it will get. We are working through our differences and making it work. For RW it may take some time to learn how the US works. You can tell them things until you are blue in the face. One lesson they learn on their own will make a world of difference. You can guide them, but the ultimate test is through their own experiences.

Clyde,
Everything you said is about par for the course.  Your doing just fine.  The perfect marriages were only on TV.  June and Ward Cleaver come to mind.    Every couple has or have had their own issues.  The successful ones work them out and the others don't.  My marriage is not perfect.  Lena is stubborn and has a volital temper and so do I.  That makes for some huge fireworks around the old household now and then. But love is the glue that binds a couple together.  The bumps in the road just make it interesting.
KenC

[Maxx2]

That's a good list but many couldn't pull it off so they will look instead for a woman who is compliant and willing to put up with their shortcomings. Russian women are not Stepford wives although they can act like them for brief moments with all their care and fusing. Allot of guys think "Wow! she will be the perfect wife and put up with me and my buddies" only to find out she has a will that he had no idea she had.

Maxx

[Turboguy]

.  I also think there are many here that are trying to figure out just what to do and how.  What works?  And what doesn't work? 

I think you are right and I have a feeling if RWD was around when I started this I could be celebrating as many years of happy marriage as you.   I think another thing to consider in our discussions and I will quote Clyde here to illustrate my point.   Clyde said.  "You can tell them things until you are blue in the face. One lesson they learn on their own will make a world of difference. You can guide them, but the ultimate test is through their own experiences."   I think he his right but I think the same applies to some of us.  We have to make our own mistakes and when we do then we can say.  Yes, KenC and jb were right.  I should have listened to them.  I will never make that mistake again.

Before Turbo jumps on here and say "but it is still possible.......", let me say that there are always going to be exceptions to the rule.  .KenC

Sorry to disappoint you KenC but I think your list of elements of a successful marriage were quite good and you will have to find someone else to disagree with you.

[PeeWee]

I have not been on RWG in months.  It sounds like you were on the receiving end over there KenC.  Sorry to hear that.  You and Lena have a good relationship and are a good couple.   There is no excuse for that.

There is no excuse for any of it. I belong to two forums that caters to aviation related topics. There is a third like forum that has a group that will, in effect, attack or discredit any member of the other two forums if they attempt to post anything there. For some reason people, generally, do not seem to like those who are affiliated with another group, or race, or religion, or sex.

Ken ventures out, get popped, comes back home and we all like him so he should just stay here and share his wealth of knowledge with just us and that will be their loss.

Peewee 

[KenC]

Ken ventures out, get popped, comes back home and we all like him so he should just stay here and share his wealth of knowledge with just us and that will be their loss.

Peewee 

Actually, I have been a member of the other board for quite some time now and that isn't what happened, but let's stay on topic here.
KenC

[Bruce]

Forget about ...............the guy named after dogfood.  I've had him ignored since I realized he is a raving madman.  That being said, anyone who makes personal attacks on Ken C is an ignoramous.   Ken C is the kind of guy all of us should hope we can become.  The guy gives so much back to many discussion boards, is a wealth of information, has a loving great wife, lucky to have children and is so available and helpful to give open honest advice etc.  I just can not say enough good things about Ken C.   He deserves nothing but the utmost respect from anyone on any of the discussion boards he participates on. 

Now I can disagree with one of his points above:

"The guys were experienced around women and had been married before."   I would modify that statement to:

The guys were experienced around women and or had been married before.  I suppose he mean't it, but just believe the or makes a difference for some of the guys.  It does for me  .

[Admin]

I am going to close this thread, for the following reason:

Elsewhere, I appealed to the board to eliminate personalization from the arguments. I used specific examples of referencing someone else's appearance, intelligence, vocation, or decision-making as being off-limits. Yet, this entire thread is dedicated to just that. It focuses on one person - and seeks to examine his process - in the process, some have taken cheap shots at any number of issues which, IMO, are below the belt.

Ken, true to form, has allowed it without complaint - but I still think it tacky and wrong.

Only if Ken writes me and asks me to reopen it, will I reopen it - and it will probably not last on the board.

- Dan