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Author Topic: Did I Screw Up?  (Read 23546 times)

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Offline scarface816

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Did I Screw Up?
« on: September 25, 2019, 06:29:06 AM »
Hello

I have a question for the senior men and women on here. I met this sweet educated Ukrainian woman online about 8 months ago. We hit it off right away and have been building a strong relationship so far moving toward getting her K1 and her 16 YO daughter's K2 Visa to come to the US. Even though she prefers to stay in Europe she said she would live wherever I live.

So after we met online we texted and chatted and skyped about 5 times per week consistently and I planned a trip to her home city. She was happy to see me come and she set aside a long week to spend with me. I got an apartment not far from her flat and headed out there. We met at the airport and started our courtship. She was always dressed to the nines wherever we went and was a wonderfully pleasant and interesting woman. She was very traditional and respected men and womens roles.

We talked about many things. But one of the things I had made sure to talk about and observe is how she talked about family. She was always talking about her parents and grandparents and I could see that she was very close to them. We grew closer and were having a good trip. But because of the scammer issue and my own personal trust issues, I was on the lookout. Probably too much.

As we progressed I attempted to get intimate with her but she rebuffed my advances which is to be expected. However, we were progressing physically but at a slow pace. But in my opinion, this is an important hurdle that we both need to get over. Our physical touch and eye contact and body language was excellent and continued to progress. In fact, we were getting closer and closer spending each full day and night together.

On about the fourth day we were getting into some heavy making out but not closing the deal. I only tell you this to help gauge our level of intimacy.  Then she told me that she had to do some work out of the blue and left me for the most part of one day to my own devices. I went around and saw some sites and did a little work in my apartment. I was not happy with her but took it in stride. When we met up she was just as affectionate and sweet as before. I talked to her about leaving me hanging all day when I had traveled so far and she apologized which I thought was a significant advancement. She wanted to go into some stores in the town center and I figured she is about to start asking me to buy stuff for her.

I would wait outside while she went into the stores. Eventually, we went to get some coffee and a local pub. She does not really drink. I don't drink much either. She then asked me if I would buy her some shoes tomorrow because she needs them. She is a professional educated woman but does not make a lot of money.

At this point, I told her no and then overreacted. The shoes were not the issue probably would have cost $40. We had a long discussion and in all honesty, I was bringing more drama than her. I was surprised at the request and did not expect this and was probably too sensitive to this issue. I then put her in a cab home and I went off to my apartment. We did not have mean words to each other but she could tell I got angry and felt this was overreacting. And yes I did not react correctly.

She said that since we were together this was normal and I should buy things that make her happy or that she needs. She also told me this was a test. I went back to my apartment and changed my flight for the next morning to leave. Cutting my trip short. We texted that night a little and then the next morning I went back to the US.

We continued to text after I got home and I felt bad about overreacting and the shoes being a relatively cheap item. I am not a cheap person. I have spent untold thousands on my ex-wife when we were married. She was not mad and never got mad or manipulative. She never tried to convince me or change my mind and I noticed this.

Then she got Pneumonia and had to get treatment. I encouraged her to go to a good doctor and to do what she needed to get better and I would send her money. I ended up sending her about $800 for the doctor and the medicine. I thought this may be a lot for the doctor but I was trying to deal with my trust issues and give her the benefit of the doubt.

Our relationship progressed and we planned another trip to meet in a city in Europe. She easily agreed and we met and had a wonderful time it was intimate and I must say the sex was amazing. We also had long conversations and quality time together. She is the kind of person that is very pleasant and never has a hard word to say about anyone. We had a few minor scrapes but nothing major.

This entire time together and via skype and text our conversations were like two lovers very close very complimentary very sweet and with adoration. I tell you this only to gauge the quality of the relationship. She asked me to buy her a few small items cosmetics and shoes of course but the sum total was around $100. Not big and this time I did not hesitate.

We got back home and we continued our loving relationship over skype and text. She had been having some problems in her practice with her management harassing her and she had told me about her friend that had her own practice. So I recommended she join in with her friends practice to get away from her bad management. She agreed talked to her friend and they made an arrangement. Then she asked me for money to split the first month's office rent with her friend in the new practice. I asked how much and she said $950. It seemed like a lot but I agreed knowing my issues in the past I wanted to get past that.

She started her new practice and seemed to be doing well. Two months down the road we talked about meeting in another European city. And she of course agreed. At no time has she indicated any disinterest in me. She has always been sweet and caring and engaged. I have never discovered any indication of dishonesty or duplicity or any malice at all.

When we do talk of meeting she always wants to meet for more time than I allot and sooner than I recommend. So I can safely say she is into me. I feel it. I start the K1 visa process and she is doing her part on the forms no hesitation. We start to plan our next trip and she tells me her partner in her practice is 9 months pregnant and may need to leave the practice and asks me for another $950 for rent until she can decide what to do or find another partner for the practice to split it with her.

At this point, it triggers my trust issues and I ask a few questions. She answers them but she is watching my face on skype and she is very perceptive. She knows my communication and my face very well. The next day we talk and she asks for the money and I refuse. This surprises her and she asks why. I had talked with my friend about it who is very supportive of our relationship and he did not think it was a good idea. I was having problems with it also.

I explained it seemed like a lot of money for rent in Ukraine $1900 for one office. She explained that they were consistent at this building and did not charge extra for heat in the winter. I asked her what she would do if I was not there? She did not answer this. But I could tell she was sad. Not angry per se or any drama. And I stayed even-tempered and cool but held my ground. I have no way to verify her situation or know the truth. I have to trust her. But she has never knowingly lied to me yet.

But I could tell there was a slight change in her attitude which is understandable. I am of course inside my mind very worried about this. My own trust and abandonment issues come up now. Did I do the wrong thing? Should I proceed as normal? I texted her goodnight last night and she responded in kind. I texted her this morning and I could tell she was slightly off her normal sweetness on text. But it is very slight.

I am very worried about this issue and how to proceed in the future. I am laying it on the line here guys. You are hearing my real story and I am asking for your advice. Should I just wait and see? Should I try to engage her in a new conversation about it? I am also concerned that she may have legitimate financial trouble. Should I just go ahead and send her the money?

When we were discussing it last night she said to me "but you told me I was your girl don't you want to take care of me?" I did not know what to say to this. Please tell it to me straight. I am not looking for abusive comments just real honest help.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 02:42:19 PM by AnonMod »

Offline krimster2

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2019, 07:15:24 AM »
OMG!!!

are you serious?
RUN FOREST RUN!!!!

cut your losses, chalk it up as tuition in the university of RW and move on...
stop "trying to hang on to a fantasy"
it's not real, and you're being used
and the cost to you LATER, will be MUCH higher then what you've put into it so far...
and I hope you realize that every time you "pay a bill" it means it is much more likely that there will be future bills that will grow in size
get the picture?


NEXT TIME...

if you're not imitate in the way you want by the 3rd date with a RW, then move on...
YOU take control and establish what the parameters are of your relationship
NEVER, EVER, be passive with a Russian woman,
because if you are, THEY will NOT be passive with you!
and they will consider you to be weak, and "not a real man", and so by their 'logic' perfectly OK for them to just use you!
to prevent that, YOU must be the "commandeer" or leader of the relationship to earn her respect
this is what she EXPECTS and WANTS (but with "generosity")
a lot of American guys screw up completely by being passive with a Russian woman
and as a result, they must passively fulfill the requests made of them or risk losing the relationship...
so what is the woman risking in this scenario?
as long as you keep giving the money, NOTHING!

bottom line: move on from your current situation and learn from it....
many. many fish in the sea

tell me more 'bout yourself, and I'll tell ya where and how to fish for em

my "bona fides"

married 19 yr to a RW, we have 2 teenage children
I lived in Kyiv and Crimea, and just starting in Moscow part-time
I speak Russian (which if you're serious, you should as well...)
big problem for you is your naive behavior, not your fault, you're western
but to a Russian, you look like an "easy mark", and Russia has a LOT of scammers looking for people like you
so learn how to adjust your thinking...


*note: I realize she is CURRENTLY Ukrainian, but....(sigh) Russians don't want me talkin' bout that here anymore...




« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 08:42:53 AM by krimster2 »

Online SteveInBoston

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2019, 07:18:35 AM »
Hi,

You screwed up over the shoe thing, but got passed it.

The doctor bill seems suspect, but I leave that to you to determine.

About the $1900 monthly rent for an office space - that seems way too high.  I assume the city is nit Kyiv?  Kyiv would be the most expensive, and it's very high even for there.

What type of profession does she have that generates enough revenue to support such a high expense?

You said you and her are working on the K1 process.  When did you get engaged?

After engagement the two of you should be able to discuss finances.  You are planning to get married and share lives.  You should be aware of her income, and she should be aware of yours. 

One day, after my wife and I were engaged, she received a lot of text alerts in the morning.  Actually, she always received these text alerts on weekdays. But after we were engaged, I asked about them.  Instead of explaining, she handed me her phone and told me to look.  It was alerts from her bank regarding deposits from her store.  She set it up to where her store manager deposited the previous day's revenue in categorized sums.  So I knew exactly how much she earned, and she had no problem sharing such details with me.

You said your fiance is sad or upset that you don't trust her.  But does she trust you enough to share her financial details?

If you see that her business revenue justifies the office rental expense, then you should support her.  But if her income doesn't align, then she's bad at business or managing money.

So, she's either genuine and just has a hiccup in expenses, is lying, or is bad with money.  You need to talk to her and discuss financial details to determine what is what.

Offline BC

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2019, 07:52:38 AM »
The day we were officially engaged, I gave her one of my visa credit cards and took responsibility for our finances and preparations for our wedding. The few withdrawals were often less than the ATM fees... : /

Of course, each relationship will be different as will be the answers you see posted here.

Shoes, yeah at that point a screwup but as Steve noted seems y'all got past that.

What caught my eye was the amounts for the bout of pneumonia and reasoning behind renting an office and going into/maintaining a biz partnership which seems like a long term commitment.  How's that going to work if the intent is to emigrate?

Bottom line as I see it is if the trust you are building together is a one way street or a highway going both directions.  You'll likely find your answer therein.

Offline krimster2

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2019, 08:24:02 AM »
ok... learning moment for you...
as a malchick with a lot of Russian experience
let me share with you, the Russian perspective
on why with a 100% certainty she’s a scammer, and you’re her mark...

ok, откуда мне знать?
how do I know?

she didn’t sleep with you...
cuz 100% guaranteed, if she was planning on being your “happily ever after” 100% she would’ve had sex with you, 100%!!!!
think about it...

see, scammers aren’t gonna tell ya they’re scammers, nope...
what they’re gonna tell ya is that they’re your “one and only"
and because you’re naive
you believe ‘em
but they’re NOT!

WHY?
because they’re NOT BEHAVING like they are...
and the relationship is really about $$$$
and she gives you just enough, to keep you on the hook, so you want MORE!!!

THIS IS the most classic Russian scam that there is
right next to the one about finding the dropped wallet on the sidewalk (google if you don’t know)

and as if THAT’s not enough for you to consider...
then how about this thought...

if you’re ALREADY having these kinda issues at this early stage
whadda ya think’s gonna happen after you say “I do”
how long before you’re searching for attorneys on the web?

horrosho?

look, this is normal, and all part of the "learning process"
I had a lot of "dry runs" with other women in Ukraine and Russia before I met and married my wife
this is normal
and each experience propelled me higher towards the next, until success
but DON'T marry a scammer!!!!

there was a guy on this board Scotincrimea
who married a scammer!!!!
soon as he bought her property in Ukraine in her name
and then came to the usa, she divorced him
got support and all property in ukraine

AND...
AND...
I warned him, just like I'm warning you...





« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 08:39:51 AM by krimster2 »

Offline ML

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2019, 09:03:51 AM »
None of us know for sure, but . . .

The saying here is that a good FSU (or probably from anywhere) woman will NOT be asking her man or any man for money or to buy her things.

One little departure is that I have experienced several FSU women who will add some small items for themselves in my shopping cart while out and about.  e.g. They might add some fingernail polish and a magazine to the cart along with food items we were buying without even asking.  Or, when at fast food restaurant they will add an extra sandwich to the order to take to a child later without even asking.

But I never had a 'good one' ask me to purchase them something substantial or give cash for some expense, etc.   Yes, when going on vacation trips, it is understood that we men will pay for everything, although I have encountered a few who insisted on paying for their own flight, etc.

Even with the 'good girls' fairly quick sex is the norm in FSU.  I never actually pushed very hard for sex at all and just waited for the gal to initiate or give very clear indication that she was ready for the event.  A few times the gal even told that she was having her period and that it would be done in X days.  There probably were a few gals who were having their periods, did not tell me, and did not act in a way (as analyzed by me)  that indicated they wanted to continue our relationship simply because of this and I moved on.   This latter case could have been the situation you encountered with your gal on the first trip as there are certainly some gals who simply will not tell about their periods to any man.

Now it is entirely possible that you are completely inexperienced with dating (even if you have been married before and dated a lot before in earlier years) and are so in need of female companionship that you simply fell head over heels for this gal just as you would have for any warm body and have romanticised how compatible you two are and how much you think she is 'into' you.  This can be particularly true when western man goes to FSU because of his ability to 'trade up' in looks above what he can achieve in the local market.

My advice:  Cut your losses with this gal.  Get back into the market and go meet 10 or more FSU gals during one trip so that you have a basis for comparison.

My bonafides:  30 or more trips to FSU over 15 years or so (mostly on business for first 10 years of that) having first dates with over 150 FSU women, third dates and more with probably 50 or so, extended time (a week or more) with 20 or so, month long visits/trips with 9, and now living with FSU gal here in USA for 9 years.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 10:51:59 AM by ML »
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2019, 09:04:59 AM »
She isn't a good girl. No good girl would ask a man that she is casually
dating for any of those things. She would let you buy dinner and pay for
a taxi, flowers sure, but shoes? No way. 

I agree with Krimster, run Forest Run!

« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 09:10:37 AM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline scarface816

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2019, 09:09:43 AM »
Maybe I did not make it very clear in my original post but I did have sex with her a lot of very enthusiastic wild sex. On our second meeting. I was testing her to see if she would be compliant with me sexually and she always was.

And when we talk now we talk about what we are going to do sexually on our next meeting all the time. When I say we should meet in two months she says let's meet in a month. If I say let's plan a trip for week she says two weeks.

I am not saying this to brag but to give you details that would indicate to me that she is into me. Or am I wrong?

Offline ML

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2019, 09:19:22 AM »
Maybe I did not make it very clear in my original post but I did have sex with her a lot of very enthusiastic wild sex. On our second meeting. I was testing her to see if she would be compliant with me sexually and she always was.

And when we talk now we talk about what we are going to do sexually on our next meeting all the time. When I say we should meet in two months she says let's meet in a month. If I say let's plan a trip for week she says two weeks.

I am not saying this to brag but to give you details that would indicate to me that she is into me. Or am I wrong?

Women have known how to use sex to control men for, let's see . . . like 5,000 years or so.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online BillyB

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2019, 09:26:16 AM »
If you started a K-1, she is your fiancée and you are in a serious relationship. People in serious relationships share their finances.

If you have trust issues with her you should not have entered into a serious relationship. Trust issues need to be resolved before proceeding further.  Of course no woman wants to marry a stingy man so she has questions about who you are but you got past the shoes test. Why does she need money to advance her business when she should be thinking about living with you?
There are people that will pass info about you and your family. Do not share info about yourself or share photos as they can search for you on the internet and distribute what they found since they are allowed to participate here.

Offline scarface816

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2019, 09:37:46 AM »
The trust issues are my issues. She did not say she wants to advance her busines she wanted the money to  pay rent because her partner is out on maternity leave and will most likely not ne returning. And she needs to find another partner.

Offline scarface816

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2019, 09:41:04 AM »
She could possibly be using sex to manipulate me. That is possible like it is with all women like our current wives and girlfriends. I was responding to krimster saying I did not have sex with her.

I may be wrong but she looked pretty into me. I have been with many women and I know when a woman is not interested sexually and that is a big turnoff for me. I am out the door immediately.

Offline krimster2

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2019, 09:43:46 AM »
what I mean by not being passive is the following:

always anticipate a woman's needs, and TAKE CARE OF IT!!!
BUT...
I discuss ahead of time with her, about how I am going to handle these things...
AND DON'T WAIT FOR HER TO COME TO ME!
we talk about what they are and how much they cost AND WHETHER IT'S WORTH IT OR NOT!!...
this topic should have come up VERY early in your relationship
and after this conversation, any unanticipated bills, viewed with skepticism
ask yourself this question, what would your GF had done
if you hadn't come along to pay her bills...

what would be reasonable would be a few hundred per month for living expenses
and as previously mentioned, why shell out that kinda money for a business she's walking away from
scams always have these little logical inconsistencies, because they're lies
she can say whatever she wants, how can you verify?

BTW,

there's a kinda calculus about this, by that I mean this thang about a Ukrainian woman
is a lot like algebra when you're trying to balance an equation
when ya got a negative on one side, like a 16 yr old daughter
means to balance
there's gotta be a negative on your side
like your age
are you over 60?

did you alter your post?
cuz when I originally read it, looked like 3rd base but no home run!


don't you think Russian roulette is a fun game?
I like the sound the cylinder makes when you spin it!!!
the cool thing about losing at Russian roulette
is you NEVER know you lost!
only if you win!!!

wait a second, doesn't every business make more than the rent?
so why doesn't the business just pay the damn rent?
and if she needs the money cuz a a partner is leaving
maybe time to shut down the damned business
especially if she's seeking a K1

so my advice, if you're still considering this....
offer her a stipend to support herself and just walk away from the business
till she's approved

the real problem isn't her
it's your lack of experience

all Russian/Ukrainian women need a 'firm hand'
a take charge kinda guy...
your wife comes to you with a bill, you evaluate it, is it worth it, yes or no...
if yes, pay it...
if no, don't
BUT YOU EVALUATE IT!!!!
and don't just pay it cuz she says to...
feel the difference
is this business worth $1900 per month to you, what's it's monthly balance sheet, you better know these things, CUZ it's YOUR business now!
did you even bother to find out about it?
see what I mean...






« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 10:03:25 AM by krimster2 »

Online BillyB

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2019, 09:50:20 AM »
And she needs to find another partner.

Why? She should be preparing for a life with you. You could even give her a monthly allowance so she can quit her job. A man should be able to do this for a fianceé he loves and trust.

Since you claim the trust issues are yours she should not have agreed to marry you until trust issues from both sides are resolved. At the point of being engaged you should be past the point of thinking she’s using you and she should be past the point of believing you’re a man that won’t take care of a woman financially.  You both still have questions about each other. How far along are you with the K-1?
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Online GQBlues

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2019, 09:50:57 AM »
Scarface-

So many dudes have come and gone with the same story as yours - here, and in other forums. First things many guys do that went through the trail is they immediately abandon their wits and instincts. They start doing things outside of their personal belief and comfort zone. Secondly, within their deepest physiological fabric, and within the spectrum of their heterosexual gender traits, women are women. Differences in culture are superficial and shouldn't be a qualifier in what makes a woman.

So I'll cut through the chase and tell you what I easily saw in your situation...

.... She was always dressed to the nines wherever we went and was a wonderfully pleasant and interesting woman. She was very traditional and respected men and womens roles...

I'm certain that segment had been discussed and expressed during the period you two talked. I'm inclined to believe you may have expressed and expanded on this subject as much as most do when they search for women in the MOB. Typically, I'm inclined to believe based solely on the obvious, the default subject will always be about a *pseudo-white-knight-in-shining-armor-rescuing-a-damsel-in-distress*. For most of these men, what else is there to discuss from their vantage point?

...When we were discussing it last night she said to me "but you told me I was your girl don't you want to take care of me?"

Trips, gifts, wine-dine, support, etc...are all showered during these times. Make no mistake about that. As though these men have no other redeeming value about them other than those that require pulling out their wallets.

Knowingly, willingly, begrudgingly. Makes no different.

Reap...sow...lather, rinse, repeat. Guys goes off to fish for a specific fish, specifically equipped with specific tools and bait hoping to land that specific fish. But when they catch exactly what they came to fish for, guess what happens?

Like it or not, from most of the women of the MOB's POV - WMs are simply Disneyland suitors because that's exactly what men portray themselves to be from the get go. They come in droves with a promise of giving them an eTicket ride to easy street. You were the perfect prototype of that description. I'm surprised you're shocked at the inevitability of your 'catch'. This is not about 'fault'. It just 'is'.

Read this board's T/R section, or any other board's T/R section, and you'll generally read the same story repeating itself. Trips, gifts, wine-dine, support, etc..lather, rinse, repeat..

If not now, you'll see it later.

I'm someone from the internet you do not know. Hence, I don't want to give you any advise how to live your life. You'll be a bigger buffoon if you do that. The only thing I can say to you now is, exercise introspection and be honest to yourself. Trust your own instinct and judgment.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 11:25:20 AM by GQBlues »
~1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming
~

msmob  (Yes, he really said these)

Offline scarface816

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2019, 09:53:52 AM »
I am not over 60. I did say this to what would she have done if I was not there. She did not answer it.

What do you mean discuss ahead of time her Bill's? Are you saying I should sit down with her in an early date and go through her finances? I am not following.

I know how much she takes home in salary since she put it on the K1 Visa application.

I never altered my post. But maybe I was not clear.

Not having fun here. Lol

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2019, 09:58:35 AM »
Maybe I did not make it very clear in my original post but I did have sex with her a lot of very enthusiastic wild sex. On our second meeting. I was testing her to see if she would be compliant with me sexually and she always was.

And when we talk now we talk about what we are going to do sexually on our next meeting all the time. When I say we should meet in two months she says let's meet in a month. If I say let's plan a trip for week she says two weeks.

I am not saying this to brag but to give you details that would indicate to me that she is into me. Or am I wrong?

There's a lot of chafe on what the posters here are telling you. Most all of it is good information but it doesn't mean they are right, about this woman or you. You'll need to determine that. Nobody here knows her.

Those amounts for pneumonia and rent does seem excessive but, may not be, I don't know. Women in general do believe their man should help and take care of them. If you are hers and she yours, she expects that from you as well. I do think the shoes was a FU on your part. Likely a test on her part. You are going through the K-1 process, it's past time you both open up about your financial standing. If "she" is yours, she'll watch your money as closely or better than you do

Offline fathertime

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2019, 10:02:44 AM »
Hello

I have a question for the senior men and women on here. I met this sweet educated Ukrainian woman online about 8 months ago. We hit it off right away and have been building a strong relationship so far moving toward getting her K1 and her 16 YO daughter's K2 Visa to come to the US. Even though she prefers to stay in Europe she said she would live wherever I live.

So after we met online we texted and chatted and skyped about 5 times per week consistently and I planned a trip to her home city. She was happy to see me come and she set aside a long week to spend with me. I got an apartment not far from her flat and headed out there. We met at the airport and started our courtship. She was always dressed to the nines wherever we went and was a wonderfully pleasant and interesting woman. She was very traditional and respected men and womens roles.

We talked about many things. But one of the things I had made sure to talk about and observe is how she talked about family. She was always talking about her parents and grandparents and I could see that she was very close to them. We grew closer and were having a good trip. But because of the scammer issue and my own personal trust issues, I was on the lookout. Probably too much.

As we progressed I attempted to get intimate with her but she rebuffed my advances which is to be expected. However, we were progressing physically but at a slow pace. But in my opinion, this is an important hurdle that we both need to get over. Our physical touch and eye contact and body language was excellent and continued to progress. In fact, we were getting closer and closer spending each full day and night together.

On about the fourth day we were getting into some heavy making out but not closing the deal. I only tell you this to help gauge our level of intimacy.  Then she told me that she had to do some work out of the blue and left me for the most part of one day to my own devices. I went around and saw some sites and did a little work in my apartment. I was not happy with her but took it in stride. When we met up she was just as affectionate and sweet as before. I talked to her about leaving me hanging all day when I had traveled so far and she apologized which I thought was a significant advancement. She wanted to go into some stores in the town center and I figured she is about to start asking me to buy stuff for her.

I would wait outside while she went into the stores. Eventually, we went to get some coffee and a local pub. She does not really drink. I don't drink much either. She then asked me if I would buy her some shoes tomorrow because she needs them. She is a professional educated woman but does not make a lot of money.

At this point, I told her no and then overreacted. The shoes were not the issue probably would have cost $40. We had a long discussion and in all honesty, I was bringing more drama than her. I was surprised at the request and did not expect this and was probably too sensitive to this issue. I then put her in a cab home and I went off to my apartment. We did not have mean words to each other but she could tell I got angry and felt this was overreacting. And yes I did not react correctly.

She said that since we were together this was normal and I should buy things that make her happy or that she needs. She also told me this was a test. I went back to my apartment and changed my flight for the next morning to leave. Cutting my trip short. We texted that night a little and then the next morning I went back to the US.

We continued to text after I got home and I felt bad about overreacting and the shoes being a relatively cheap item. I am not a cheap person. I have spent untold thousands on my ex-wife when we were married. She was not mad and never got mad or manipulative. She never tried to convince me or change my mind and I noticed this.

Then she got Pneumonia and had to get treatment. I encouraged her to go to a good doctor and to do what she needed to get better and I would send her money. I ended up sending her about $800 for the doctor and the medicine. I thought this may be a lot for the doctor but I was trying to deal with my trust issues and give her the benefit of the doubt.

Our relationship progressed and we planned another trip to meet in a city in Europe. She easily agreed and we met and had a wonderful time it was intimate and I must say the sex was amazing. We also had long conversations and quality time together. She is the kind of person that is very pleasant and never has a hard word to say about anyone. We had a few minor scrapes but nothing major.

This entire time together and via skype and text our conversations were like two lovers very close very complimentary very sweet and with adoration. I tell you this only to gauge the quality of the relationship. She asked me to buy her a few small items cosmetics and shoes of course but the sum total was around $100. Not big and this time I did not hesitate.

We got back home and we continued our loving relationship over skype and text. She had been having some problems in her practice with her management harassing her and she had told me about her friend that had her own practice. So I recommended she join in with her friends practice to get away from her bad management. She agreed talked to her friend and they made an arrangement. Then she asked me for money to split the first month's office rent with her friend in the new practice. I asked how much and she said $950. It seemed like a lot but I agreed knowing my issues in the past I wanted to get past that.

She started her new practice and seemed to be doing well. Two months down the road we talked about meeting in another European city. And she of course agreed. At no time has she indicated any disinterest in me. She has always been sweet and caring and engaged. I have never discovered any indication of dishonesty or duplicity or any malice at all.

When we do talk of meeting she always wants to meet for more time than I allot and sooner than I recommend. So I can safely say she is into me. I feel it. I start the K1 visa process and she is doing her part on the forms no hesitation. We start to plan our next trip and she tells me her partner in her practice is 9 months pregnant and may need to leave the practice and asks me for another $950 for rent until she can decide what to do or find another partner for the practice to split it with her.

At this point, it triggers my trust issues and I ask a few questions. She answers them but she is watching my face on skype and she is very perceptive. She knows my communication and my face very well. The next day we talk and she asks for the money and I refuse. This surprises her and she asks why. I had talked with my friend about it who is very supportive of our relationship and he did not think it was a good idea. I was having problems with it also.

I explained it seemed like a lot of money for rent in Ukraine $1900 for one office. She explained that they were consistent at this building and did not charge extra for heat in the winter. I asked her what she would do if I was not there? She did not answer this. But I could tell she was sad. Not angry per se or any drama. And I stayed even-tempered and cool but held my ground. I have no way to verify her situation or know the truth. I have to trust her. But she has never knowingly lied to me yet.

But I could tell there was a slight change in her attitude which is understandable. I am of course inside my mind very worried about this. My own trust and abandonment issues come up now. Did I do the wrong thing? Should I proceed as normal? I texted her goodnight last night and she responded in kind. I texted her this morning and I could tell she was slightly off her normal sweetness on text. But it is very slight.

I am very worried about this issue and how to proceed in the future. I am laying it on the line here guys. You are hearing my real story and I am asking for your advice. Should I just wait and see? Should I try to engage her in a new conversation about it? I am also concerned that she may have legitimate financial trouble. Should I just go ahead and send her the money?

When we were discussing it last night she said to me "but you told me I was your girl don't you want to take care of me?" I did not know what to say to this. Have I fucked up. Please tell it to me straight. I am not looking for abusive comments just real honest help.

I think the jury is still out.  It does seem the expenses she ran up are high and possibly questionable. 

To me, the most important thing is how you are doing when together and it sounds so far like it has been delightful. That said, it may not be indicative  of how things would be going forward in the grind of real life.    You are both seasoned adults.  Is there a large language barrier?  Although personally, I made up my mind to marry after the second trip (Colombia), In your case maybe a little more time spent together would be appropriate, maybe visiting her business and getting a perspective of what it is all about is wise use of time.    I don't know your personal story or hers, so there are a lot of unknowns for us commentators. 

Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2019, 10:04:58 AM »
I suggest you do what BC did, take care of her financially. 

She needs to prepare for her new life with you.   So pay for a couple of months of office, but have an understanding that she needs to stop working soon.  Her work must not be very valuable if it does not generate enough income to pay for rent.  If she is marrying you, she does not need to find a new partner, only to disband when she emigrates.     

Most important, this arrangement requires her to trust you that you will provide for her.  Let's see how much she trusts you.  You need to meet again and again.    Perhaps one time she comes to your home on a visitor visa.   

She and her daughter can use the free time to study English, prepare immigration documents, shop for a wedding dress, study your hometown, have a plan for her daughter's schooling, etc.   

BTW, RW have a love affair with shoes and cosmetics.  $40 is nothing.  A professional scammer would have wanted shoes made in Italy.

Regarding sex, it is very important to her as well as to you.  Is you sexy time mutual or all about serving you?  If the latter, be forewarned.  Discuss it with her, explaining that you are not an egotist but want her fulfilled. 

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2019, 10:17:04 AM »

Not having fun here. Lol

Hang in here.  Almost all men answering your questions have been married for years to a FSUW. 

All women are different as are the RWD men.   So YMMV.    Keep in mind an important fact, a FSUW old enough to have a 16-yo has been "trained" by FSUM.   The FSUM have good points:  they tend to be very romantic souls, are very close with their woman's soul, are attentive to her every need, speak "sweet nothings," etc.  She will crave for the same.  We will ignore the FSUM bad points. 

Offline krimster2

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2019, 10:17:20 AM »
"Are you saying I should sit down with her in an early date and go through her finances?"

you MEAN TO TELL ME you haven't already done this?
because if YOU DO have this conversation with her...
then you completely AVOID these kinds of issues from "popping up"
AND YOU are making the spending decisions after YOUR evaluation, and not her....
see how clever this "proactive" way is!!

and IF SHE tries to "go around" this with unexpected surprises, then it's "scammer time" and you can't touch this!!!
that's right
you can't touch this

so, if ya gotta Russian problem...
in yur neighborhood...
WHO ya gonna call?
RUSS Busters!


« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 07:44:31 PM by krimster2 »

Offline scarface816

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2019, 11:31:55 AM »
So I have to ask for more details. It is the second or third date and how does this conversation go?

So tell me, Russian Woman, I really like you but I need to know more about you.

How much do you make?

What are your expenses?

Do you have any serious financial issues you are dealing with?

Do you have to support anyone or have any health issues?

On and on.

Like this?

I am a bit sceptical.

Offline krimster2

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2019, 11:45:00 AM »
I guess I also need to ask for more details...

so how many times, days have you two spent together?
did you ever talk about finances after you proposed?

if you just focus on the $1900 mo rent due to a lost partner....
how does she propose to make up the difference, other than you just wiring her money?
how much profit does a $1900 mo rent place make each month
why can't the profit pay the rent
can the business operate without a partner
or does it need a new partner
where is this business
picture, address
did you see it?

what if it's just cheaper for you to pay her $500 mo to buy food, pay utilities until her visa is approved and she shuts down the business
what's the profit and loss on that

important thing
is to go over expectations up front and not get AMBUSHED later
cuz that's how scammers operate!!!!
YOU always have to make the choice, based on a simple question, is it WORTH it to you
and in your case, you seem to know nothing about it
which makes you just perfect for an ambush...

« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 11:50:53 AM by krimster2 »

Offline scarface816

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2019, 11:45:29 AM »
Why? She should be preparing for a life with you. You could even give her a monthly allowance so she can quit her job. A man should be able to do this for a fianceé he loves and trust.

Since you claim the trust issues are yours she should not have agreed to marry you until trust issues from both sides are resolved. At the point of being engaged you should be past the point of thinking she’s using you and she should be past the point of believing you’re a man that won’t take care of a woman financially.  You both still have questions about each other. How far along are you with the K-1?

I agree she could quit her job and let me send her the few hundred bucks a month until the Visa comes in and it would probably be cheaper overall. Maybe I should shift to that.

The trust issues are my own and have been discovered through my own introspection recently in my life. I thought I was past the point of thinking that she is using me. But then she asked for $950.00, and it seems a little fishy. I come on here and people with a lot more experience than me say run away. I am being honest here about my issues. But we all have issues don't we? If we didnt get married because of our issues no one would be married.

K1 is still being worked. But she has never indicated anything other than her desire to marry me and moving to the US even though she said she would prefer to live in Europe since it is closer to her family.

There should be no reason for her to think I would not take care of her financially. But this is a double-edged sword, isn't it? I can take care of her financially or I am cheap. She is a scammer or a golddigger or she is just doing what women in the FSU expect from their man. And that is complete support. Don't send her the money on one hand and put her on an allowance on the other. It does not seem so easy to me.

There seems to be no real consistent answer here. But maybe that is just the way it is.

I also want to say that there is never been any indication at any point through 8 months of her ever lying. Not once and believe me I have looked. I just don't see this as an easy answer.

One of the other commenters has said that they have seen my story on here many times. I have read this forum a lot and I have never seen this type of story on here. Maybe I missed something.

Offline scarface816

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2019, 11:48:20 AM »
I guess I also need to ask for more details...

so how many times, days have you two spent together?
did you ever talk about finances after you proposed?

A total of about 15 days so far. Talk on skype and text almost every day. Talked about finances a few times but not so much in detail. And more when she asked for money. By the way on the Pneumonia thing told her I would pay for a good doctor she did not ask. The only time she has asked is the two times for the office rent. And a few small items on our 2nd trip together. And of course the shoes.

 

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