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Author Topic: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)  (Read 19643 times)

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Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1025 on: July 09, 2020, 11:13:31 PM »
Being a pandemic it is more than the EU, more than the US, and the worse is still to come for many countries.  Maybe we should work with the WHO, an apolitical, functional WHO!!!!

Sure, lets learn from our mistakes and move forward instead of backwards.  Was there CYA involved? It does seem that way and I'm glad we're finding out, but what we do thereafter is what counts.  We can't cry over spilt milk, we have to clean the mess and concentrate all resources on combatting this virus. When spilt, usually some milk remains in the bottle. Lets use it instead of throwing a half-full bottle away.

One incident that sticks in my mind is the first lockdown here in Italy.  Localized, folks still working with some precautions.  The folks that came over from China told officials it won't work that way.  Sure, it seems the virus originated in China, their officials may well have done all kind of things to save face or whatever.. but they did bring their experience with them and a real lockdown was implemented which looking back today was very effective.  Had we thrown out the bottle after the spill we would be as bad off here as in the US nowadays.


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Most governors should take exception to your simile.  However, even after 3-4 months of managing this pandemic, we still have critical problems at the state and local levels.
 

Notably, again, filled ER's, hospitals and ICU's.  We missed some very good lessons learned overseas and the US northeast that did provide dramatic results in not only flattening the curve but starve the virus as well.

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For example, a huge limitation in Florida is contact tracing.  News reports suggest a significant number of positive test cases have never been called by an agency to determine with whom the infected individuals have encountered in travel, work, family, etc.    The Miami-Dade County region is the most infected area in Florida, and has a team of 200 contact tracers.  The Mayor wants an "Army" and the Governor disputes the need for an "Army."

At the current rate an impossible task.  Time, resources and training is needed to build an army.  That bus has passed, but let us do it anyway in preparation for the day that numbers decline enough and become manageable.  "Oh by then we won't need it " they say! - Just as summer was supposed to kill the virus for us...  An army was and is still needed, even if it is plan B.  We missed the bus the first time around.  Will we miss it again, even during the many months it will take to go through the logistics of vaccinating the nation whenever a good vaccine is available? 


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Trump does not say such nor act that way.  If you have evidence he did, please.....



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The pandemic is everyone's problem, individuals more than government, whether federal, state, or local.   

Which is exactly why a leader and not blamer is needed.

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If Trump has all the authority and power you keep ascribing to him, we would never have a sanctuary city, or a CHAZ, or a debate about how to open schools. or..... The battles are fought locally.  The Feds are needed for augmenting resources, speeding the R&D of vaccines and therapies, monitoring and consultation.     

In a situation where actions in one state affect others, there is no room for disparity.  But alas, even the reopening plan proposed by CDC and the administration was bashed by no other than our president insisting states should 'liberate' themselves.  Liberate from what I ask... to flaunt reopening guidelines?  Ditto recently for school reopening guidelines with the CDC finally taking a firm stand despite criticism by our president.  'Do as I say and not as I do' comes to mind.  I'm quite sure all this is helping our nation work in a cohesive fashion to battle the virus :/  The role of a federal government is to lead the charge when a crisis goes beyond state borders.  If it were otherwise, each state would have its own state CDC instead of one delegated to serve the nation.

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1026 on: July 10, 2020, 05:56:33 AM »
Then when your 'official' info catches up with mine, as it assuredly will .. I wonder what your 'excuse' will be ?

If your data are so much better, explain the title of your source's chart "Average Deaths per Day Over Time"  and how it is calculated.   


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In the meantime, new cases went up and the deaths will surely follow ((

Agreed!   Yet as seen in FL DOH's bar chart, it has not happened yet.   The bar chart is through July, and the daily reported additional deaths since then are as follows:   46,63, 48, and 18 ( vs. 6,000 to 12,000 new positive tests in the surge). 

We agree more deaths are coming.  The concern from my perspective, as a senior residing in Florida, is the rate of increase.  Will the death rate increase the same as rate of new cases?   I infer you will say "yes."  If so,  deaths would increase by 900%.   OMG, I am going to die!   

If you were honorable, I would offer a wager, yet you have proven in spades your dishonor.

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1027 on: July 10, 2020, 06:01:28 AM »
Worth the 17 minutes it takes to watch. Of course those devoid of common sense just won't "get it". Obviously, common sense isn't so common these days but for those that can't grasp it, carry on and blame Trump


Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1028 on: July 10, 2020, 06:49:25 AM »

Notably, again, filled ER's, hospitals and ICU's.

Hospitals in Florida have been near capacity not because of COVID but because of performing the backlog of many elective procedures delayed during the lockdown.  Reports suggest 10-40% of the current patients are COVID.   

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Will we miss it again, even during the many months it will take to go through the logistics of vaccinating the nation whenever a good vaccine is available? 

The issue is cost.  Miami-Dade Mayor says 200 is not enough; he wants an "army."  Extrapolate that to the nation, and when the pandemic ends, what

I suggested earlier that as one part of the NEXT national preparation plan, each state should train a cadre of current state employees in contact tracing, to be deployed temporarily during the next lockdown.   


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Which is exactly why a leader and not blamer is needed.

1.  Trump spoke the truth, and Trump provided Cuomo ventilators, new hospitals, etc.   
2.  There is more to blame than in this clip; in fact, everyone is at blame. 
3.  Obama never blamed others?

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In a situation where actions in one state affect others, there is no room for disparity.  But alas, even the reopening plan proposed by CDC and the administration was bashed by no other than our president insisting states should 'liberate' themselves.  Liberate from what I ask... to flaunt reopening guidelines?  Ditto recently for school reopening guidelines with the CDC finally taking a firm stand despite criticism by our president.  'Do as I say and not as I do' comes to mind.  I'm quite sure all this is helping our nation work in a cohesive fashion to battle the virus :/ 



Rather than belaboring facts and perceptions, let's summarize by saying I disagree with your partisan view.  The pandemic is not over.  The 2021 President will surely order a bipartisan commission to investigate the COVID pandemic. 

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  The role of a federal government is to lead the charge when a crisis goes beyond state borders.  If it were otherwise, each state would have its own state CDC instead of one delegated to serve the nation.

Sounds like BIG NATIONAL GOVERNMENT  with complete sovereignty over all aspects of governing life.   Founding fathers are rolling over in their graves and their statues are teetering. 

Given CDC has only 10,000 employees, it can not take on the role of BIG GOVERNMENT.  In comparison, FL DOH has 17,000 employees, with units doing what CDC would be doing.  Also, as expected in a federal republic, CDC and the states have been working together.  Consider examples of such:

      -  The CDC has an office in each of the 50 states.
      -  One of CDC's primary missions is monitoring spread of infectious disease, and they accomplish this largely by compiling data and statistics reported by county health departments. 
      -  Another CDC mission is to provide scientific assistance to states when needed such as in epidemics. 
   

The frontline soldiers in the war against COVID are the  doctors, nurses and scientists treating patients.  Their activities are monitored by the county health departments, extending up to the states and then to the CDC.   

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1029 on: July 10, 2020, 08:00:05 AM »
Worth the 17 minutes it takes to watch. Of course those devoid of common sense just won't "get it". Obviously, common sense isn't so common these days but for those that can't grasp it, carry on and blame Trump


WOW FP...too much logic and sense in that video. I can' stand it. Besides, in a leaderless country such as ours, facts can only be found in our primetime mainstream media. These types of information just cannot aired in the truth teller like CNN. Can you imagine any story that does not imply that all the devastation were witnessing is NOT because of Trump?!? That's blasphemy!

Everything IS indubitably his FAULT!!!! Not Anthony Faulty!

I mean just this morning, I found out CNN already have a team of panicking reporters running around all over Florida reporting live how that state is desperately clinging on for any vestige of hope - my GAWD! Florida is DOOMED!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 08:01:46 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online Faux Pas

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1030 on: July 10, 2020, 08:10:12 AM »
WOW FP...too much logic and sense in that video. I can' stand it. Besides, in a leaderless country such as ours, facts can only be found in our primetime mainstream media. These types of information just cannot aired in the truth teller like CNN. Can you imagine any story that does not imply that all the devastation were witnessing is NOT because of Trump?!? That's blasphemy!

Everything IS indubitably his FAULT!!!! Not Anthony Faulty!

I mean just this morning, I found out CNN already have a team of panicking reporters running around all over Florida reporting live how that state is desperately clinging on for any vestige of hope - my GAWD! Florida is DOOMED!

Yeah, no shat. We're all doomed is the narrative and that's the MSM continual 24 hour news cycle. It reminds me of the old saying that if you "tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth".

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1031 on: July 10, 2020, 08:15:04 AM »
 
If you were honorable, I would offer a wager, yet you have proven in spades your dishonor.

Here we go,

1/ You posted data ( again ) that isn't supporting what's happening, now, in YOUR state.

2/ You bring up a wager you LOST and suggest *I'm* 'untrustworthy ..  FACT ..  'Trampu' inherited a recovering economy and I PROVED to you that other nation's economies reflected the US recovery ...

Fact is 'Trampu' was calling on governors to get people back to work and as many warned .. too early ..


http://www.cityam.com/us-coronavirus-cases-rise-by-record-60565-in-single-day/


Stay safe.






« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 08:53:47 AM by msmob »
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1032 on: July 10, 2020, 10:08:42 AM »
Here we go,

1/ You posted data ( again ) that isn't supporting what's happening, now, in YOUR state.

And you can not explain the chart you used.   Your evidence is dismissed as both unsubstantiated and indecipherable. 

Instead, let's go  to the official FL DOH data, the same data compiled by CDC (maybe your source, but you don't know).   Today's report (July 9) shows an uptick:

Additional Tests Performed:         64,000  (cumulative total of 2.4 million tests)
New Positive Cases:                    12,000 (close to record)
Reported Hospitalizations:               435
Additional Deaths Reported:              93

The positivity of testing is nearly 20%.  So "community spreading" is still very active.  This is the situation  consistent with so many asymptomatic cases, who are infectious and don't know it.       



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2/ You bring up a wager you LOST and suggest *I'm* 'untrustworthy ..  FACT ..  'Trampu' inherited a recovering economy and I PROVED to you that other nation's economies reflected the US recovery ...

I would say "figures don't lie, but liars can figure."  Except you do not crunch numbers.  Instead, you select irrelevant charts and say "See, I am right!"

This demands a response.  Later.   

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1033 on: July 10, 2020, 10:51:10 AM »
so Florida, which in some areas have one out of five corona tests coming back positive, up 500% from just a few weeks ago...
now wants to completely reopen all schools at the end of next month...
with NO PRECAUTIONS, not even masks!
nothing! like there is NO VIRUS! so why worry...

the great prophet Krimster predicts (waves hands...)

as soon as the air conditioners are turned on kids will start to spread Corona to each other and to teachers
and then start to bring it home to their families...

and guess what dear readers?
itll be the start of flu season then....
hmmmm hmmmmmmmmm.....

now do ya see why the Germans called Americans Dummkopfs!!!
cuz thats what they are!!
buncha freakin idiots!!!

I mean WTF, how dedicated to wall streets financial interests do you have to be
to keep the schools open
so all the millions of women making 12$ per hour as essential workers have free child care
because this population is the backbone of the American labor force
one out of four of this group will lose their job and health insurance by the end of the year
and a disproportionate number of them contract Corona
but like soldiers in a war, we will make the sacrifice in lives
to defend above all the interests of the one tenth of one percent
at the direct expense in lives of everyone else....

so tell me why people in this country haven't revolted in prioritizing hedge fund money over their lives
do lives matter or does the DJI matter more
do any of you know how much the Federal Reserve has spent just on purchasing the 6 largest DJI Tech Stocks?
compared to how much has been spent on retrofitting schools to make them safer this fall?

see what I mean about priorities

this is a huge mistake

so what we are seeing now is a second peak that has been caused by reopening too soon
as I earlier predicted...
in terms of the total number of Corona cases
the total that took 4 months to happen with the first peak
will happen in just two months in this peak
and when the third peak starts at the end of September
then this amount will happen in just a month!!!

AND...
this means "The End of the World As We Know It!"

dear reader, as an aid to your understanding
please consider the chart below that illustrates my plight

I am probably about a year away from living in a post-apocalypse society
where a third of the people have to line up each week for food
hmmm hmmmm....
but you can already feel what's gonna happen here...
guns are now openly seen everywhere here
and everyone is tense and angry
the brief calm before the approaching storm
animals are taking shelter
 






« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 11:32:44 AM by krimster2 »

Offline Grumpy

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1034 on: July 10, 2020, 10:56:48 AM »
This is something that needs developing.

http://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-07-10/injection-prevent-coronavirus-feds-manufacturers-fail-to-act

Hopefully it could prevent doctors and nurses treating covid patients from becoming infected.
Good women are not cheap
Cheap women are not good
(but they can be a lot of fun)

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1035 on: July 10, 2020, 11:47:00 AM »
This is something that needs developing.

http://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-07-10/injection-prevent-coronavirus-feds-manufacturers-fail-to-act

Hopefully it could prevent doctors and nurses treating covid patients from becoming infected.

If those scientists can't get the American government to buy into their proposal, they can go propose it to other nations. How many other nations are adopting it?
Do your part to limit the spread of COVID-19

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1036 on: July 11, 2020, 12:07:03 AM »
Billy,

Many nations don't need to take this step as they have been able to bring infection rates down to very low, manageable and almost 'green zone' levels, buying time until a good vaccine comes along.  As soon as trials are completed they'll be able to better evaluate the need vs risks for such therapies.

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1037 on: July 11, 2020, 01:27:40 AM »
Hospitals in Florida have been near capacity not because of COVID but because of performing the backlog of many elective procedures delayed during the lockdown.  Reports suggest 10-40% of the current patients are COVID.

You mean Florida does not know how many Covid patients are in hospitals and ICU's?  Italy has 844 in hospital and 65 in ICU.  Nothing better than 'Reports suggest' and a 30 point spread?  Of course, hospitals fill with other cases, they weren't built for Covid.

 

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The issue is cost.  Miami-Dade Mayor says 200 is not enough; he wants an "army."  Extrapolate that to the nation, and when the pandemic ends, what

With millions receiving unemployment benefits, many of whom would be very qualified to take on track and trace jobs what would be the additional cost?  - Almost negligible.

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I suggested earlier that as one part of the NEXT national preparation plan, each state should train a cadre of current state employees in contact tracing, to be deployed temporarily during the next lockdown.   


Wow.. that's pretty asstute [sic].  Does this mean Florida has thrown in the towel and is not going to try and bring infections down 'THIS time'? How do you think 'manageable levels' are maintained?


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1.  Trump spoke the truth, and Trump provided Cuomo ventilators, new hospitals, etc.   
2.  There is more to blame than in this clip; in fact, everyone is at blame
3.  Obama never blamed others?

Indeed.  The result of everyone thinking only about themselves and not being able to face this challenge as the United States.  This points directly at a failure in leadership from the top and all the way down to individual citizens and residents.


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Rather than belaboring facts and perceptions, let's summarize by saying I disagree with your partisan view.  The pandemic is not over.  The 2021 President will surely order a bipartisan commission to investigate the COVID pandemic.


Yes, lets quit beating about the bush and face the facts at the end of this post.

Sounds like BIG NATIONAL GOVERNMENT  with complete sovereignty over all aspects of governing life.   Founding fathers are rolling over in their graves and their statues are teetering. 

OMG! Big government!!!!  A federal government is there to address national needs.  Is the Federal reserve system that manages the almighty buck big government?  Should each state start printing money?  How about the IRS, SSA, FEMA and all the other national BIG GOVERNMENT organizations that support states and citizens and other national policies?  Getting a grip on national issues and disasters is exactly what our government is about.  Heck we even have a National Weather Service.  NHC does a better job tracking hurricanes than we are doing tracking this virus.  But yeah, disband 'em all, that will kill the virus for sure!!

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Given CDC has only 10,000 employees, it can not take on the role of BIG GOVERNMENT.  In comparison, FL DOH has 17,000 employees, with units doing what CDC would be doing.  Also, as expected in a federal republic, CDC and the states have been working together.  Consider examples of such:

      -  The CDC has an office in each of the 50 states.
      -  One of CDC's primary missions is monitoring spread of infectious disease, and they accomplish this largely by compiling data and statistics reported by county health departments. 
      -  Another CDC mission is to provide scientific assistance to states when needed such as in epidemics. 

Their biggliest job is to develop national strategies and guidelines to address health crises.  Why have they not been successful at that task?
   
Quote
The frontline soldiers in the war against COVID are the  doctors, nurses and scientists treating patients.  Their activities are monitored by the county health departments, extending up to the states and then to the CDC.   

Absolutely wrong.  They are the cleanup crew for the mess we are making as much as a MASH hospital is in a war zone.  True Heroes nonetheless.   Where is the offensive force against this virus?  That is where soldiers should be and not on stretchers and coffins.

Gator,

We can beat about the bush all day and all night.  Nothing, absolutely nothing changes the fact that many tens of thousands of our elderly, middle age, young, teen and even infants have and will continue to die needlessly because of our inability to face this challenge as a nation.  Death is not the only consequence as many will suffer with future disabilities.  Nothing, absolutely nothing changes the fact that our president has not been able to lead the charge against this virus effectively and achieve a level of success that is comparable with our peers.  As others live, work and play in relative safety we squander our time, wasting our resources on going nowhere but backwards, prolonging the pain and riding on a prayer that the magic bullet will arrive before we get sick ourselves.  This is a pitiful state for what is touted to be the best, most powerful, richest country on earth.  Any thought to the contrary is denial, pure and simple.

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1038 on: July 11, 2020, 05:34:29 AM »
Gator,

We can beat about the bush all day and all night. 

Let's not.  Responding to a "wall of words" would necessitate a new wall.  And would deteriorate to politics, thereby missing the scientific points.  Worse, it could unleash more false accusations such as:

Quote
But yeah, disband 'em all, that will kill the virus for sure!!


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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1039 on: July 11, 2020, 05:52:31 AM »
The COVID situation in Florida certainly worsened, and is now being reflected in hospitals.   

I have two golfing friends who are ER physicians.  The burden of new COVID critical cases has required one hospital to convert some ordinary beds into ICU beds. 

The general opinion is those thousands of new asymptomatic cases each day are unknowingly infecting the fragile members of their families.  Some are intubated with low prospects for survival, grappling with end-of-life options.

My son and I thought it best not to meet, even with masks.

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1040 on: July 11, 2020, 07:57:53 AM »

My son and I thought it best not to meet, even with masks.

Gator,

During the lockdown, my son and I had to make the very same decision.  In addition, we were also not able to fly over to be with my father during his last days and now we are having to wait until it is safe enough us to properly lay him to rest and spend time with Mom.  Maybe sometime next year if we're lucky and a good vaccine comes about... Fortunately, my son and I will be able to spend time with each other in a couple of weeks as travel in both our countries has normalized with very low infection rates.

Even though we all keep in touch over the 'net, it's tough.  Nothing can replace a real hug.  I hope you and your son can get together soon for one, or better three.

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1041 on: July 11, 2020, 08:01:57 AM »
Let's not.  Responding to a "wall of words" would necessitate a new wall.  And would deteriorate to politics, thereby missing the scientific points.  Worse, it could unleash more false accusations such as:

Well, if we'd quit the damned testing we wouldn't have a problem ;)

Not politics, but our leadership, that is totally missing skipping the 'scientific points'.

'totally' is the result of frustration, but you get the point.

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1042 on: July 11, 2020, 08:40:48 AM »
Billy,

Many nations don't need to take this step as they have been able to bring infection rates down to very low, manageable and almost 'green zone' levels, buying time until a good vaccine comes along.  As soon as trials are completed they'll be able to better evaluate the need vs risks for such therapies.


90% of the States have kept the infection rates low too. It's not worth shutting down all schools and most businesses in the country over a few States experiencing outbreaks. What is Europe doing? Will they be having schools open this Fall? Beaches,. parks and bars closed? Are they shutting down a higher percentage of businesses compared to America? Only the UK is testing more people per capita than America so most of Europe doesn't have a testing advantage. What do you think Europe is doing that America isn't doing to keep infections and deaths lower?
Do your part to limit the spread of COVID-19

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1043 on: July 11, 2020, 08:54:24 AM »
The COVID situation in Florida certainly worsened, and is now being reflected in hospitals.   

I have two golfing friends who are ER physicians.  The burden of new COVID critical cases has required one hospital to convert some ordinary beds into ICU beds. 


Areas in Texas have ordered refrigerated trucks since morgues are filling up. Also learned from the article Texas does not publicly report probable coronavirus deaths, which means patients who have died without testing positive for COVID-19 could go uncounted. More Houston residents are also dying at home before they can make it to a hospital. That means the death toll is likely higher than the states official count.

http://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/10/texas-coronavirus-deaths-morgues-capacity/
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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1044 on: July 11, 2020, 09:09:58 AM »
90% of the States have kept the infection rates low too.

http://rt.live   Sure?

Quote
It's not worth shutting down all schools and most businesses in the country over a few States experiencing outbreaks. What is Europe doing? Will they be having schools open this Fall? Beaches,. parks and bars closed? Are they shutting down a higher percentage of businesses compared to America? Only the UK is testing more people per capita than America so most of Europe doesn't have a testing advantage. What do you think Europe is doing that America isn't doing to keep infections and deaths lower?

It's not what most of Europe is doing, it is what they did, which was a much stricter form of lockdown and planned re-opening to not only level the curve but beat it down to low levels of infection that can be effectively tested, traced and isolated.  Schools will be opening her with halved class sizes and 80 thousand more teachers being hired along with other physical measures.  We're off to the beach tomorrow for a change, bars and restaurants are open for business with only a few prudent measures in place. Businesses are normalizing, folks are back working. Travelling between most countries is allowed and quite safe.  Folks from other countries are being tested and if necessary turned away or travel from that country blocked. Been this way for a month now.

What you don't seem or want to realize is that the US, today could enjoy the same freedom and safety as is present in many other countries.  The push to open early, before numbers dropped was a YUGE mistake.

Sometimes I get the feeling you have absorbed very little of the discussions here.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 09:12:02 AM by BC »

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1045 on: July 11, 2020, 09:27:08 AM »

It's not what most of Europe is doing, it is what they did, which was a much stricter form of lockdown and planned re-opening to not only level the curve but beat it down to low levels of infection that can be effectively tested, traced and isolated.  Schools will be opening her with halved class sizes and 80 thousand more teachers being hired along with other physical measures.  We're off to the beach tomorrow for a change, bars and restaurants are open for business with only a few prudent measures in place. Businesses are normalizing, folks are back working. Travelling between most countries is allowed and quite safe.  Folks from other countries are being tested and if necessary turned away or travel from that country blocked. Been this way for a month now.

What you don't seem or want to realize is that the US, today could enjoy the same freedom and safety as is present in many other countries.  The push to open early, before numbers dropped was a YUGE mistake.

Sometimes I get the feeling you have absorbed very little of the discussions here.

You guys are pretty much doing what we are doing. Don't get too comfortable with your low numbers. We all started with low numbers before they exploded. You guys slowed down in testing while America increased testing so that will affect the perception of infections rates/R factor. It will take years before the results are in to see who damaged their economies the most. Saving a few lives is important but not at the expense of ruining all the lives of the living. There has to be a balance and as long as I seen that America isn't above the threshold for what we expect in weekly deaths from all causes, I'm fine with the direction we are going. Based off America's actions, we have lessened other illnesses and injuries that lead to death while combating the spread of COVID-19.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm#dashboard
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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1046 on: July 11, 2020, 10:02:46 AM »
You guys are pretty much doing what we are doing. Don't get too comfortable with your low numbers. We all started with low numbers before they exploded.

No, absolutely not.


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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1047 on: July 11, 2020, 10:40:33 AM »
You guys slowed down in testing while America increased testing so that will affect the perception of infections rates/R factor.

Testing hasn't slowed, 45,000 in the last 24 hours with 276 positives, well under 1% which includes those that entered Italy from other countries accounting for a notable portion.  You can bet each and every one of those 276 cases are resulting in track and trace efforts to find any contacts, and their contacts, and their contacts etc..

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1048 on: July 11, 2020, 10:51:46 AM »
I'm fine with the direction we are going. Based off America's actions, we have lessened other illnesses and injuries that lead to death while combating the spread of COVID-19.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm#dashboard


Really?  Read the fine print from your source.  You are seeing far less than half of what is really happening.



Quote
This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more, depending on the jurisdiction and cause of death.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 10:55:56 AM by BC »

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1049 on: July 11, 2020, 01:33:17 PM »

Really?  Read the fine print from your source.  You are seeing far less than half of what is really happening.




You are new to the chart. I've been watching chart movement for the past month. I read the fine print but there will be very few deaths added to the count after 10 days so it's only going to be a very small increase later on. America's total deaths from all causes, including old age, has decreased sharply and we are below the threshold of what it's predicted to be for this time of year based on historical averages. COVID-19 is killing many Americans but we are saving lives elsewhere so no reason to panic and stay hiding. By maintaining certain changes to our behavior and with periodic lock downs to certain parts of the country, we can manage so there's no reason to keep the whole country closed.


I just came back from a construction meeting in the next door county. Less populated cities and lots of Conservatives live there. Big difference from the county I live in which includes Seattle. City inspectors and men represented other contractors didn't wear masks and shook my hand. In my county everybody is wearing masks and nobody shakes hands. Of course my county is more densely populated so people will alter their behavior as necessary. On the drive back to home, I passed a motel used to house infected people who doesn't need a hospital. It's closed but will probably be reopened if there's another outbreak. There's no reason for Trump to announce a complete shut down of the nation and affect my life because of what is going on in Texas and Florida.
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