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Author Topic: Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?  (Read 95850 times)

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Online msmob

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Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
« Reply #1800 on: April 03, 2020, 07:34:54 AM »


It's not useless. Some protection is always better than no protection. I still haven't wore a mask since this crisis started but my wife wears a 3M N95 mask when she goes shopping.



THAT is a filter mask - properly sealed .. it'll just suffocate her after 30 mins

We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline GQBlues

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« Reply #1801 on: April 03, 2020, 07:53:43 AM »
The mask is not to protect you from being infected it's to protect others, same way as primarily Asian people have been using them for decades.

Mask on - you limit the amount of virus being transmitted from you in case you have the virus
Mask off - You are a egoistic f*ckhead


so take your 6 minutes and shove them where the sun don't shine - you are the dumb one that can't digest facts

Exactly right! Not only that, having one on is also a good reminder to refrain from 'touching your face with your hands, especially in the nose and mouth regions.

Anyway, I'm not sure what type of face mask the 'other' guy bought if it chokes him to death after 30 minutes. Maybe he can try it on for, say, 40 minutes?

Anyway, according to the board 'expert', it's rather counter productive for doctors and nurses on the frontline to choke to death after 30 minutes wearing N95, or surgical mask being useless after 6 min. - but there they are - wearing one every time you see them on the news and TV. OY! Those damned idiots, eh?

For everyone else...they are now getting vital information that part of the spreading of the virus are from people who have the disease but are asymptomatic and they're out there in the public. To MINIMIZE the transmission of the virus, they are advising to wear some facial covering (they don't right out say 'face mask' as they are concerned about depleting supplies that are much needed by the care takers on the frontline), in the event that it is 'YOU', as an additional measure of flattening the curve.

I've said at the beginning of this thread when BillyB is getting mocked, if you feel safer doing something for yourself and your family - don't let idiots in the internet stop you from exercising what you deem right for you. Especially from one well known to be wrong in everything.

This is a PUBLIC SERVICE. I sure hope this post doesn't GET DELETED again.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 07:56:18 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online BillyB

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« Reply #1802 on: April 03, 2020, 08:00:56 AM »
THAT is a filter mask - properly sealed .. it'll just suffocate her after 30 mins

You were wrong about masks before after personally getting educated by your medical expert friends. Do you want to be wrong some more?

Even a mask that's not properly sealed is still better than no mask. Protecting against 100% of the viruses is near impossible but if a person can limit the amount of viruses they intake, they may not get infected. I've worked in extremely dusty conditions and in garages painting equipment with automobile paint and wore masks that eventually start to clog and get wet over time but it still protected to some degree.

From the article in the link below.

In February, scientists in Wuhan, China—where the coronavirus outbreak originated—sampled the air in various public areas, and showed that the virus was either undetectable or found in extremely low concentrations. The only exceptions were two crowded sites, one in front of a department store and another next to a hospital. Even then, each cubic meter of air contained fewer than a dozen virus particles. (No one knows the infectious dose of SARS-CoV-2—that is, the number of particles needed to start an infection—but for the original SARS virus of 2003, one study estimated somewhere between 43 and 280.)

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/coronavirus-pandemic-airborne-go-outside-masks/609235/

Next time you go in for open heart surgery that lasts for hours, tell your doctors they don't need a mask since they won't work after some minutes.
Do your part to limit the spread of COVID-19

Offline Faux Pas

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« Reply #1803 on: April 03, 2020, 08:05:23 AM »
Exactly right! Not only that, having one on is also a good reminder to refrain from 'touching your face with your hands, especially in the nose and mouth regions.

Anyway, I'm not sure what type of face mask the 'other' guy bought if it chokes him to death after 30 minutes. Maybe he can try it on for, say, 40 minutes?

Anyway, according to the board 'expert', it's rather counter productive for doctors and nurses on the frontline to choke to death after 30 minutes wearing N95, or surgical mask being useless after 6 min. - but there they are - wearing one every time you see them on the news and TV. OY! Those damned idiots, eh?

For everyone else...they are now getting vital information that part of the spreading of the virus are from people who have the disease but are asymptomatic and they're out there in the public. To MINIMIZE the transmission of the virus, they are advising to wear some facial covering (they don't right out say 'face mask' as they are concerned about depleting supplies that are much needed by the care takers on the frontline), in the event that it is 'YOU', as an additional measure of flattening the curve.

I've said at the beginning of this thread when BillyB is getting mocked, if you feel safer doing something for yourself and your family - don't let idiots in the internet stop you from exercising what you deem right for you. Especially from one well known to be wrong in everything.

This is a PUBLIC SERVICE. I sure hope this post doesn't GET DELETED again.

Billyb should probably go check on his wife. If she didn't carry a plethora of extra masks surely she's dead by now according to the resident expert? I don't know of many women that can finish shopping in 30 minutes or less

Online BillyB

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« Reply #1804 on: April 03, 2020, 08:13:02 AM »
Where would Italy be if it had acted just one week earlier with a national lockdown?  About half the deaths and infections we have now.


China deserves the lions share of the blame but some experts and politicians in Italy deserve blame too. Watching China in January, factor in they do a bit of lying, and strange pneumonia cases started showing up in hospitals in early February, your health experts should've predicted when things would explode exponentially and your politicians should've acted earlier based off their recommendations. While Italy can claim they didn't know what was going happen because of China's deception, what was the rest of Europe's excuse? Spain is going to pass Italy and they have a smaller population. Other European nations are catching up and they have no excuse after watching Italy from the beginning. In the link below, cases and deaths per million are important columns and a refection each nation's actions. Many nations lie so we won't ever get the full truth on how bad this virus is.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Do your part to limit the spread of COVID-19

Online msmob

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« Reply #1805 on: April 03, 2020, 08:15:45 AM »
You were wrong about masks before after personally getting educated by your medical expert friends. Do you want to be wrong some more?

I have yet to be proven 'wrong' and the physician that educates me hasn't changed his stance !


Next time you go in for open heart surgery that lasts for hours, tell your doctors they don't need a mask since they won't work after some minutes.

They don't stop virus transmission... BOY is the thick strong in you, today
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline GQBlues

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« Reply #1806 on: April 03, 2020, 08:25:21 AM »
China deserves the lions share of the blame but some experts and politicians in Italy deserve blame too. Watching China in January, factor in they do a bit of lying, and strange pneumonia cases started showing up in hospitals in early February, your health experts should've predicted when things would explode exponentially and your politicians should've acted earlier based off their recommendations. While Italy can claim they didn't know what was going happen because of China's deception, what was the rest of Europe's excuse? Spain is going to pass Italy and they have a smaller population. Other European nations are catching up and they have no excuse after watching Italy from the beginning. In the link below, cases and deaths per million are important columns and a refection each nation's actions. Many nations lie so we won't ever get the full truth on how bad this virus is.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

This was the article I mentioned to you about those cases of 'strange and severe' pneumonia cases breaking out back in November in Italy.

I can't lay any 'blame' on Italy in hindsight. This is a novel virus. They simply didn't know.

Italy wanted to tighten their relationship with Beijing due to economic reasons. Many of Italy's fashion well known industries are now owned by Chinese companies. Despite some concerns within Italy's politicians at the forefront of their epidemic, they still decided to host Chinese dignitaries into a special concert for their honor.

But many of our cases are brought back by vacationing Americans from Italy. None of them were warned by the Italian authorities despite multiple findings were beginning to surface.

That's some pretty grave implications. You had mentioned on another thread about exhuming some of those victims to find out if in fact the deaths back in November were via COVID-19. Well, the chances of that happening, if true, and put Italy in that light - would simply be globally damning much in the way China is currently being looked at today. So, it ain't happening.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 08:39:49 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online BillyB

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« Reply #1807 on: April 03, 2020, 08:48:41 AM »
This was the article I mentioned to you about those cases of 'strange and severe' pneumonia cases breaking out back in November in Italy.


That was something different in November. With zero action taken, Italy would've exploded in January if it was the coronavirus. It takes approximately two months from the time the virus shows up in a country to the point lockdowns need to happen.

I can't lay any 'blame' on Italy in hindsight. This is a novel virus. They simply didn't know.


Italy knew enough in January to prepare for the correct course of action. China finally confirmed human-to-human transmission on Jan. 20. Trump banned foreign nationals that been in China while Italy banned flights from China January 31. Although similar restrictions, there's a big difference with Trump making the better move. Italy and America knew back in January to take action based on a few dozen cases in their countries. Deaths are going to happen but the proper action and how fast they should act is supposed to be figured out by the experts to prevent exponential growth and deaths.

The first round is a learning experience on what to do, when to do it and what not to do. We will learn even more after the next few outbreaks. Hopefully it's a seasonal thing instead of every two months. Our economies can't handle these virus outbreaks multiple times each year. I'm not sure economic growth is possible with just one outbreak a year.
Do your part to limit the spread of COVID-19

Online msmob

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« Reply #1808 on: April 03, 2020, 08:57:08 AM »
OMG.. :wallbash:




Italy wanted to tighten their relationship with Beijing due to economic reasons. Many of Italy's fashion well known industries are now owned by Chinese companies. Despite some concerns within Italy's politicians at the forefront of their epidemic, they still decided to host Chinese dignitaries into a special concert for their honor.


Once AGAIN , Italy was the first EU nation to bans flight from China ... hardly the action of a state acting in the way GQB 'suggests' ...

But many of our cases are brought back by vacationing Americans from Italy. None of them were warned by the Italian authorities despite multiple findings were beginning to surface.

Given 'we' did know about the virus in January and USA tourists and biz men still went and returned, ( even when Italy was  becoming a 'hot spot' ) this is another piece of nonsense .


You'd be better off blaming your 'leader' as he told you it was 'all under control' ...






We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline BC

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« Reply #1809 on: April 03, 2020, 09:32:51 AM »
The method for informing US travellers of problems in other countries is the State Dept Travel Advisories.  The list is below and you can see when advisories for each country were listed.

 http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html/

IIRC those studying differences in the genetic sequence were able to identify that of the three first cases in the US two were from China and one from Europe, quite possibly Italy.

In any case, most if not all EU countries have started levelling off due to identification, isolation and controls.  The $64,000 question is if the US will also level off, and when.  See the graph attached.

---------------------

To add a little to the original topic, if you wear gloves, suggest using cotton inserts if you can get them.  Nothing worse than sweaty hands in gloves to pass bugs into the body.  The other day was wearing a mask and gloves, went to the ATM machine.  Gloves did not work with the touchscreen.. ugh what now? yes, gloves off.. oops have my pin stored on my phone.. damn won't open for me... aha... the mask doesn't allow facial recognition to work...  Also, throw away the gloves when you get home, don't put them in your pocket for next time.  If you have the heavy-duty type wash along with the inserts in hot soapy water and let sit for a bit.  Carry one of those pens with rubber tips for touchscreens and phones when you go out and wipe down your phone before you get home.


[edit]  Note UK on the graph whos leadership also delayed measures

 
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 10:00:28 AM by BC »

Offline BC

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« Reply #1810 on: April 03, 2020, 09:43:09 AM »
The first round is a learning experience on what to do, when to do it and what not to do. We will learn even more after the next few outbreaks. Hopefully it's a seasonal thing instead of every two months. Our economies can't handle these virus outbreaks multiple times each year. I'm not sure economic growth is possible with just one outbreak a year.

The US watched the first two rounds from outside the ring.  Why are we TODAY still not fully on board with the program?

Because we were complacent, gambled and lost.  Our leaders said all was in control and it would go away, we insisted on making our own tests which delayed testing for 6 weeks, we did not learn from the mistakes of other countries and a whole range of items to 'learn from'. 

Bottom line, we did not own it... and now the virus now owns us.

Offline GQBlues

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« Reply #1811 on: April 03, 2020, 09:44:21 AM »
OMG.. :wallbash:

Once AGAIN , Italy was the first EU nation to bans flight from China ... hardly the action of a state acting in the way GQB 'suggests' ...

Given 'we' did know about the virus in January and USA tourists and biz men still went and returned, ( even when Italy was  becoming a 'hot spot' ) this is another piece of nonsense .

You'd be better off blaming your 'leader' as he told you it was 'all under control' ...

Note the date (+/- two weeks after banning flight from China): Best Friends Forever

Just a year prior: A Royal Welcome

Quote
ROME — President Xi Jinping of China arrived on Friday at Rome’s presidential palace with a cavalry escort usually reserved for royals. For a three-day visit, Italy pulled out all the stops for an economic superpower promising billions in investment and trade deals in exchange for officially signing on to China’s vast new Silk Road.

But even as Mr. Xi and his wife were serenaded at a state dinner by Andrea Bocelli, the leaders of France, Germany and the European Union huddled in Brussels hoping to strengthen the Continent’s defenses against what they considered to be China’s economic incursion.

3 days ago:Dark Bright Days Ahead

Quote
That was not the visual backdrop Italian leaders were seeking less than a year ago when they signed a memorandum of understanding with China, committing Italy to Xi Jinping’s Belt and Road Initiative. Italy also signed nearly 20 related agreements to build new port and road infrastructure, initiate scientific cooperation in space science and satellite technology, boost exports of frozen pork and citrus fruit to China, and tap Chinese investment funds to pay for many of the projects. Despite the wide-ranging commitments agreed to in Rome in March, China apparently did not believe it had any responsibility to tell its new partner that a dangerous virus had been on the loose in Wuhan in December, and that many of the Chinese arriving in Northern Italy during the winter might be carriers. The decimation of Italy’s elderly highlights how China handles partner nations, and it’s a dark future.

capiche?

As for Italian brands being owned and driven by Chinese, there's a slew of articles out there the past 10 years. Chew on 'em, ok? Made in Italy is a dead and dying 'brand'...

http://www.marketingtochina.com/italian-brands-bought-chinese-companies/

http://footwearnews.com/2018/business/mergers-acquisitions/china-investment-acquisition-europe-luxury-fashion-brands-504195/
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 10:45:14 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online BillyB

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« Reply #1812 on: April 03, 2020, 09:55:05 AM »
Italy was the first EU nation to bans flight from China ...


Banning flights was not enough. Banning individuals who were in nations that were hotspots was needed. If I were a Chinese student trying to get to Italy to finish my degree, Chinese businessman looking to make a million dollar sale, or Chinese tourist that invested $15,000 for my family to look at Rome, I would not let a cancelled flight from China to Italy stop me. I would take a flight to another country and then proceed to Italy.

The US watched the first two rounds from outside the ring.  Why are we TODAY still not fully on board with the program?

Because we were complacent, gambled and lost.  Our leaders said all was in control and it would go away, we insisted on making our own tests which delayed testing for 6 weeks, we did not learn from the mistakes of other countries and a whole range of items to 'learn from'. 

Bottom line, we did not own it... and now the virus now owns us.

America is like a lot of countries all rolled into one. Outbreaks will happen in different states at different paces. If Trump was wrong about not locking down the whole nation and shutting down the entire economy at the same time, he can do it next time. I think he did the right thing letting governors decide what's best for their State except it seems NY made some moves too late to stop exponential growth of infections and deaths.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 09:57:26 AM by BillyB »
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Offline GQBlues

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« Reply #1813 on: April 03, 2020, 10:30:57 AM »
Event in our state and in our industry:

CAL-OSHA (California - Occupational Safety and Health Organization), as a response to COVID-19 CDC guidelines, began sending out inspectors to all active construction sites that began this week. They are conducting random job site visits unannounced to check and make sure workers are adhering to the CDC Guidelines.

They will also randomly meet with site supervisions and ask for their respective COVID-19 Company Response Programs in addition to the usual site specific IIPPs, PPEs, etc..

Anything short of compliance will immediately place that company in violation, which could lead to project or contract suspension.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline SteveInBoston

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« Reply #1814 on: April 03, 2020, 10:40:52 AM »
After discussing this further with wifey today, we decided to postpone the travel.  The tipping point is the mandatory 14 day observed quarantine - no self isolation or self quarantine. 

Once (and hopefully soon?) restrictions get lifted, I will go there, or perhaps if the US Embassy there is open again she can apply and get a B2 visa to visit here.


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« Reply #1815 on: April 03, 2020, 10:49:43 AM »

My MIL reported today from Ukraine. She talked to a medical professional friend in Italy and it is as bad as it's reported there. My MIL, a retired doctor, said Ukraine isn't securing buildings for quarantining people. They don't have many test kits and those that they do have are the unreliable ones from China.

We complain about our governments not being prepared but there are many governments out there that can't afford to be as prepared as we. But it's okay, they can manipulate the numbers as well as China to show they've done a good job protecting the people.
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« Reply #1816 on: April 03, 2020, 10:50:04 AM »
GQ,

At first, construction was allowed but afterwards only for necessary work, i.e. hospitals and urgent safety-related repairs.

Suggest keeping your eye out for Covid testing possibilities and jump on the opportunity as soon as available including antibody testing.  You can then sort your teams and jobs accordingly.  With a bit of luck, you'll end up with most having had it and recovered that can be sent anywhere with less risk to themselves and customers.

Any worker that tested positive and afterwards negative and is still in good shape to work is going to be a very valuable asset for some time to come.

Offline GQBlues

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« Reply #1817 on: April 03, 2020, 11:04:08 AM »
GQ,

At first, construction was allowed but afterwards only for necessary work, i.e. hospitals and urgent safety-related repairs.

So far here out west, all aspects of construction is still considered 'essential'. I'm on the fence about this as many operations dealing with labor work have them working 'shoulder-to-shoulder'. A definite adjustment. We've sent out memos to our field, discussed this at tailgate meetings, and had our safety team out and about at all our sites constantly.

Quote
Suggest keeping your eye out for Covid testing possibilities and jump on the opportunity as soon as available including antibody testing.  You can then sort your teams and jobs accordingly.  With a bit of luck, you'll end up with most having had it and recovered that can be sent anywhere with less risk to themselves and customers.

I agree. We haven't had an employee that succumb to the disease. At least not that became symptomatic. But you know how that goes these days. It means zilch. I am dreaming of getting everyone tested regardless of condition. I can't believe we can send machines to Mars and communicate back to us, but we can't provide adequate testing kits for everyone during a pandemic.

Quote
Any worker that tested positive and afterwards negative and is still in good shape to work is going to be a very valuable asset for some time to come.

I heard a report that anyone who actually 'recovered' from the diseases are the prime source of antibodies and are being asked to donate blood. One draw can apparently aid in treating 3 patients. I'd do it in a heartbeat...
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline BC

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« Reply #1818 on: April 03, 2020, 11:13:37 AM »
I heard a report that anyone who actually 'recovered' from the diseases are the prime source of antibodies and are being asked to donate blood. One draw can apparently aid in treating 3 patients. I'd do it in a heartbeat...

Ditto here.  Some antibody testing already started here, but then stopped due to lack of testing materials, likely due to the still high demand for normal testing.

Your Mars analogy is spot on. 

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« Reply #1819 on: April 03, 2020, 11:20:24 AM »
I heard a report that anyone who actually 'recovered' from the diseases are the prime source of antibodies and are being asked to donate blood. One draw can apparently aid in treating 3 patients. I'd do it in a heartbeat...

I'd auction it off to the highest bidder ;D
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #1820 on: April 03, 2020, 11:25:11 AM »
I'd auction it off to the highest bidder ;D

I was worried these last posts would prompt you to go get infected for the same purpose.

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Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
« Reply #1821 on: April 03, 2020, 11:37:20 AM »
It means zilch. I am dreaming of getting everyone tested regardless of condition. I can't believe we can send machines to Mars and communicate back to us, but we can't provide adequate testing kits for everyone during a pandemic.


Testing across the nation is still inadequate, yet especially so in California.   What's the story?

From Politico http://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/coronavirus-testing-by-state-chart-of-new-cases/

___________________________________________________

California:  33,000 tests (increase of 11,741 since last week)

Florida:      77,296 tests (increase 46,345 since last week)


California:  28% of tests reported as positive

Florida:      10% of tests reported as positive



Is Florida  testing too many first responders, healthcare staff, etc.  who do not have symptoms?  Or testing too many people regardless of symptoms who had contact with a new case of COVID-19?

Is California reserving its capacity by focusing tests on symptomatic cases? 

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Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
« Reply #1822 on: April 03, 2020, 11:39:01 AM »

Your Mars analogy is spot on.

The Mars mission was not designed, developed and delivered in one month. 

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Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
« Reply #1823 on: April 03, 2020, 12:19:03 PM »
The Mars mission was not designed, developed and delivered in one month.

This ain't a Mars mission. WHO and German scientists developed a test many weeks before the US was able to begin testing in any great number (lets say more than 2-300 per day.

Earlier saw Dr Brix in an interview stating that she can't get half of the testing data.

From the CDC website today.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 12:28:20 PM by BC »

Offline GQBlues

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Coronavirus, how are you preparing for it and how it is affecting you so far?
« Reply #1824 on: April 03, 2020, 01:19:04 PM »
Testing across the nation is still inadequate, yet especially so in California.   What's the story?

From Politico http://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/coronavirus-testing-by-state-chart-of-new-cases/

Results Pending. We are probably still trying to deplete the 4-day lab result test kits before using those 15-minute model. We are currently right at 92,500 tested.

I've previously commented the seeming lack of urgency and expertise in the way our data collecting agencies are functioning. California has a 'B' rating regarding informing the public during this current crisis.

Quote
California has shown a huge number of pending tests. The state has been inconsistent in its timing of reporting, so we used faster updating sources until 4/1, when we standardized on California's new data dashboards. This led to a drop in cases and deaths, as the state's data lags some other sources. We assume that "tests conducted" = "people tested." Negatives and pending from California state 3/31 update. Hospitalization data from 4/1 Newsom press conference.

Here's a site I prefer that reports on all the states and territories. It's much more 'current' and comprehensive.

http://covidtracking.com/data/

If you'd notice...information for California was last 'updated 4/1'! Even Guam updates their dashboard the same day.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 01:27:37 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

 

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