Elen, RWDMA, BC, and RW's Attitudes

[Maxx2]

I give that round to Olga S.

Maxx

[Turboguy]

T/G,

*sigh*  Page 3 contains a 2,000+ word diatribe which insults just about everybody who is either married to a Russian, or ever thought about marriage to a Russian.  The man is really full of himself.

"contains a 2,000+ word diatribe"   Did you actually count.  It might be 3000.

which insults just about everybody who is either married to a Russian, or ever thought about marriage to a Russian.   The only one I could see he insulted was Elen and only that he would not want to be married to her.  Olga probably wouldn't like that either.  I guess you are talking about his statement that many men married to RW are pussywhipped.   Everyone has a right to their opinion.  I am sure some people married to a RW are.  I see a lot that I don't think are either.  I could not see anything very insulting.  I don't agree with what he said though.

The man is really full of himself.  Could be.  He isn't the first and won't be the last if he is.  Personally I saw that post as long and maybe wordy but I could not see it as offensive to anyone but that is just my two cents worth.   I still give the round to Olga.

[Admin]

"contains a 2,000+ word diatribe"   Did you actually count.  It might be 3000.

which insults just about everybody who is either married to a Russian, or ever thought about marriage to a Russian.   The only one I could see he insulted was Elen and only that he would not want to be married to her.  Olga probably wouldn't like that either.  I guess you are talking about his statement that many men married to RW are pussywhipped.   Everyone has a right to their opinion.  I am sure some people married to a RW are.  I see a lot that I don't think are either.  I could not see anything very insulting.  I don't agree with what he said though.

The man is really full of himself.  Could be.  He isn't the first and won't be the last if he is.  Personally I saw that post as long and maybe wordy but I could not see it as offensive to anyone but that is just my two cents worth.   I still give the round to Olga.

No, jb is correct. That post, which contained a bit more than 2500 words, essentially referred to every married guy on the board - except KenC - as being PW.

Being one of those married guys, I take pretty strong issue with Doug's insult - and I suspect jb and quite a few others do as well.

At the same time, I have been reading and communicating with Doug for quite some time, so I guess I have a 'measure' of what to expect from him. Cannot help but admire his gift of writing and his dedication to his wife and family.

- Dan

Oh - and BTW, the 2,575 words I referenced was the word count from MS Word. It may be off by a few, but probably not.

[Turboguy]

I guess it did as I think about it a little more.  I would like to offer you my apologies for thinking you had no provocation jb.  Sorry I criticized you.  Still not a fan of anyone attacking anyone but you were just defending yourself from an remark you took to be inflammatory.

To me the worst way to make a point is to use so many words.  Now If he would have just said, "you sob's are PW"  I would have had more impact and I woulda said "sick him jb".   

Besides that, since I don't have a P to W me I didn't have to think about it applying to me.  Gotta go find a P so I can join in. 

Thanks for correcting me Dan.

[catzenmouse]

Besides that, since I don't have a P to W me I didn't have to think about it applying to me.  Gotta go find a P so I can join in. 

 My ex has gained about 100 lbs since we split and she was always trying to PW me. Want her number? 

On Topic: I've just quit reading certain people/responding to certain people. Sometimes being full of yourself is too much of a full time job and I don't have time to do extra work for free...

Ken

[Maxx2]

Someone said:

Quote:

"The man is really full of himself"

Maybe he is just confident that's all?

IMO there is a married guys hierarchy around here. You guys know who you are. Clyde is still earning his stripes but he outranks me and Turboguy with Daknack beneath us as he has not made his trip east yet. Daknack out ranks the rank newbies as he has posted for a while now and has hung out with RW/AM married couples. Now Doug could be part of the ultimate group but he doesn't want to. Russian Women on this forum are in a whole nother tier with married to WM being higher than RW without Western husbands. But us guys let the women sort out their own pecking order. I just hope KenC doesn't call me mentally ill again with Dan and the ultimate group (except DonAz did in PM. May God bless him) not coming to my defence... As AJ would say < :shrugs: >

Maxx 

[Mamma D]

Most of the Russian women I have met... Know who they are and where they are going.... and the means will match the particular lady and her personality.

Make no mistake, these ladies will not come half way around the world to be told what they may or may not do and say....

So be very sure, you and your lady well understand each other, before you ask her to leave her family and everything she has ever known..... for an unhappy women is not something to wish for! 

[Admin]

Someone said:

Quote:

"The man is really full of himself"

Maybe he is just confident that's all?

IMO there is a married guys hierarchy around here. You guys know who you are. Clyde is still earning his stripes but he outranks me and Turboguy with Daknack beneath us as he has not made his trip east yet. Daknack out ranks the rank newbies as he has posted for a while now and has hung out with RW/AM married couples. Now Doug could be part of the ultimate group but he doesn't want to. Russian Women on this forum are in a whole nother tier with married to WM being higher than RW without Western husbands. But us guys let the women sort out their own pecking order. I just hope KenC doesn't call me mentally ill again with Dan and the ultimate group (except DonAz did in PM. May God bless him) not coming to my defence... As AJ would say < :shrugs: >

Maxx 

Woops ?!?

What did I fail to defend?

And Maxx, I've had the good fortune to spend time around quite a number of people that were REALLY confident - and with good reason. To a person, none of them were intentionally insulting to others - and all would step up to situations in which they inadvertently insulted or offended others.

- Dan

[Turboguy]

Interesting theory Maxx.  Is that a little like the caste system in India? 

I am not sure I buy that theory but I can't totally disagree with it either.  I think most of us jump in and help people wherever we can.  Certainly on marital happiness jb and kenC know a lot.  When it comes to GCG's there is no one I would listen to more than you. 

As far as the caste system I think it is there if you want it to be there.  I think human nature has us giving the most credibly to those who think along the same lines we do.  If you get someone who posts ideas we like, sooner or later we think to ourself, that person is really smart.  I really don't want to start an argument with this statement but I think some of the people on the high end of your caste system would agree with your theory totally.  I will agree that in some areas they have the most experience.  Experience and good advice do not always go hand in hand and that is just a general statement not directed at anyone.  Everyone you mentioned has doled out a lot of good advice. 

I think we all establish our own pecking order of people we listen too.  Among the married guys, I listen to jb and KenC's advice.  They are very smart people with a ton of experience, but I probably would listen harder to Ken from Virginia, Jet, SOC and Vaughn.  On issues about finding and dating I would listen most to many of the guys still in the hunt.  I am not saying anyone's advice is better or worse than anyone else's, just that the guys I mentioned think more like I do.  Maybe that is a bad thing.   :noidea:

[jb]

Regarding the Doug deal:

I cannot for the life of me understand why you guys are so accepting of this sh!t.  Doug S is a troll, he may be married to a RW, but he's still a troll none-the-less.  He thrives on making inflammatory statements and then insulting those who call him on it.  I've seen him do it time and time again.  Where ever he goes he leaves a trail of pissed off people and makes enemies with his brand of BS.

He also loves to play the part of a victim after the fact.

After calling men who marry Russian women PW'ed, among other things, and making reference to those men he has actually met as almost subhuman, (he can't believe he actually spends time with them), if that's not enough, he calls the rest of us who regularly contribute to the board, "internet junkies" and RW forum addicts.  Then he gets his knickers in a twist when someone does not agree with him.  Because, of course, when he writes his 2,000+ word essay, he "didn't really say that". Well, actually, he did.

He knows I have him on "ignore" and have blocked PMs from him.  So what does he do?  He writes under Olga's name offering up an alternative understanding.  I guess he figures only an absolute arsehole would dare to insult a young woman on the open board.  Leave it to Doug, I do not believe that post, attributed to Olga, was authored by anyone other than Doug himself.

[wiz]

Most of the Russian women I have met... Know who they are and where they are going.... and the means will match the particular lady and her personality.

Make no mistake, these ladies will not come half way around the world to be told what they may or may not do and say....

So be very sure, you and your lady well understand each other, before you ask her to leave her family and everything she has ever known..... for an unhappy women is not something to wish for! 

MammaD

Very sound advise and I hope those looking for an RW will take it on board.

Maxx

Total bull about pecking order. Who gives a toss if the poster is married, looking etc as long as the advise is correct.

Do we have to bow to anybody married to an RW?

DAN

I forced myself to read again Dougs "offending post 2575 words" and quite frankly he bored me to tears. In my view he did not offend anybody and for a man with his writing skills, as you say, the post was a lot of waffle.

I noticed the people who worked up and get offended easily over here are the ones with a Trophy wife......
Doug is not an exception, because he belongs to that category too. So what's the fuss all about?

Olgas

Sorry Olga but you were 20 and he was 40 when you met, so you were a Trophy wife and of course Doug and you had to work hard to achieve your current status of your relationship and I am happy to hear the results of your hard work. I hope it lasts for ever!

Turbo

You are a keyboard romeo..........and I hope you change your mind when you go on tour in Ukraine.

For God's sake ask Jack to introduce you to a 40 + woman.......and stop looking for a younger one.
Ukraine if full of very attractive women, not just in their early years but over 40 years too.......Toys-R-Us.

If you find and marry a woman between, let's say, 30 - 40 years old, DO you think Viagra will help you to satisfy her after 5 years?

Somehow I don't think so as you will have nothing in common to keep your relationship going......so soon she will be bored and go looking elsewhere.

This comment applies to everybody who thinks he can marry a woman with over 20 yrs difference in age.
Before anybody jumps on my throat: The exception prove the rule!

Any newbie...just read MammasD comments above.

Now that I have offended everybody......have a nice day!

Going back writing my travel diary. 

[jb]

Actually, wiz, I'm somewhat offended you left me out.

j/k

Your remarks vis-a-vis large age differences are generally very much on target.  KenC is the exception to the rule, T/G is probably not.

I don't agree with your assessment of Doug S/olgas, I think they are one and the same person.  In order to understand why I believe that you have to know I'm married to a RW who speaks fluent English and is an Associate Professor at 2 colleges here.  After 5 years of practice at it, she still writes with confused articles of speech, even though she doesn't confuse them as she speaks.  The post written above attributed to Olga was written by a native speaker, playing at writing in dialect, not a Russian immigrant.  If you believe any of that crap, you'd be walking with a limp because somebody has been pulling your leg.   I'd bet a small amount of money on it.

[BC]

jb,

Not going to throw stones, but after a closer look I do find the use of many commas and quite complex sentence structure quite atypical for posts authored by RW, not to mention the verbose style and 'between the line' insinuations..  Would probably take a native RU speaker to really dissect down to the bone.

My wife would have responded in four words at the most using English and maybe two in RU. 

Would indeed be quite sad if your suspicions are confirmed.

I guess a polished version or dictation could be within the realm of possibility..

Oh well I'll simply skip 'em and move on.

[Maxx2]

The Doug/Olga Conspiracy Theory and others:

JB, keep in mind Olga arrived in America while still 20 years old. Your wife more than twice that. Olga has the young flexible mind thing going for her. Your wife is a mathematics professor. No need to have perfect English (who does?) with the universal language, math. Olga is a Russian/English translator. So perhaps she did write this?

However I have no doubt that Doug talked to her about it and they came to the same conclusions in regard to this board. In other words there is probably a Doug influence and a "why don't you post this to this board" thing going on.

I remember Spencer accused you of posting under Etna's identity during "the Great jb 'new-board coming on line' rebelion of '05" with the ,,,,,, between each sentence.

My conspiracy theory at the time was this was a planned rebelion to get strong posters away from the other board and over to this one as it was just starting up. Drawing a line in the sand and daring Spencer to step over it caused your being banned. The issues being was censorship and being able to 'clue bat' newbies. Of course allot of people over there liked you including me and followed you over, just as this board was starting up.

Then there is the Jack Bragg/Dan conspiracy theory. That is Jack is co-owners with Dan of this message board and uses it as his private fishing hole. Chasing off Stirlitz and so on. But I got to believe this is nonsense even if Jack helped Dan with techincal support at the startup. Recently Dan had to smack Jack with "superdooper moderator #2" (SDM2) and Jack was ticked off. So a conspiracy between these two seems unlikely unless the SDM2 is fiction and cover..... Na

I could go on and on.   

Maxx

[Turboguy]

Personally I think Olga wrote it.  I do agree with Maxx, that Doug may have helped.  I have read a lot of writings from RW and it sounded like a RW with good English to me.  Wiz may have left you out jb but I didn't.   I do understand your point but I agree with Maxx and BC.

Wiz,  I have to admit since I have not made a trip to the FSU for 4 months or so I am starting to feel like a keyboard romeo.   To me that title would be for someone who writes endless letters and never goes.   I just write endless letters.  I have a lot of gals I expect to be meeting on my upcoming trip with Jack.  Many are in their late 40's might even be a few in their 50's.  Yes, a few are late 30's.  My understanding is Viagra works up to a very advanced age.  Haven't been there yet to tell you first hand.  You didn't insult everyone.  I am sure PeeVee and others fell left out.

Wiz, my take on Doug's post was the same as yours the first few times I read it (torture actually).  I saw it more as waffle than insult.  Since everyone else saw it as insult I just figured I must have read it wrong.  The bad part is I want to go back and look at it one more time.  Just curious to see if he put his copywrite notice on it.  I am sure it would be a great first chapter for his book and would show everyone what lies ahead.  :hairraising: Doug, nothing personal.  I am sure you have a lot of knowledge and a great marriage.  I have no problems with you at all.  I just really think you need to find a way to make your point with a few less words.

[Son of Clyde]

I sent Doug an innocuous PM asking him to maybe reflect and think before posting. I can post my PM but not Doug's PM's. Maybe I was needling him a little but in a way I would like to see Doug accept others and be accepted. Calling us PW'ed losers is not my idea of making friends at RWD. One of his responses to me was a 2,400 (I counted the words in Word) PM saying in effect he does not really care how people interpret his posts. He had a few choice words for me which I will deal with but I was not happy and let Dan know. If this is Doug's way of drumming up business for Go East Now it is a very bizarre way to advertise. Still there are a few curious people who will be tempted to try Go East Now so let them try if it may work for them.

[Admin]

The Doug/Olga Conspiracy Theory and others:

JB, keep in mind Olga arrived in America while still 20 years old. Your wife more than twice that. Olga has the young flexible mind thing going for her. Your wife is a mathematics professor. No need to have perfect English (who does?) with the universal language, math. Olga is a Russian/English translator. So perhaps she did write this?

However I have no doubt that Doug talked to her about it and they came to the same conclusions in regard to this board. In other words there is probably a Doug influence and a "why don't you post this to this board" thing going on.

I remember Spencer accused you of posting under Etna's identity during "the Great jb 'new-board coming on line' rebelion of '05" with the ,,,,,, between each sentence.

My conspiracy theory at the time was this was a planned rebelion to get strong posters away from the other board and over to this one as it was just starting up. Drawing a line in the sand and daring Spencer to step over it caused your being banned. The issues being was censorship and being able to 'clue bat' newbies. Of course allot of people over there liked you including me and followed you over, just as this board was starting up.

Then there is the Jack Bragg/Dan conspiracy theory. That is Jack is co-owners with Dan of this message board and uses it as his private fishing hole. Chasing off Stirlitz and so on. But I got to believe this is nonsense even if Jack helped Dan with techincal support at the startup. Recently Dan had to smack Jack with "superdooper moderator #2" (SDM2) and Jack was ticked off. So a conspiracy between these two seems unlikely unless the SDM2 is fiction and cover..... Na

I could go on and on.   

Maxx

Maxx,

There are seemingly, no end to the number of people spinning up various conspiracy theories which are pure fantasy. Take the one you used as an example - the Jack/Dan conspiracy. I have addressed this openly and honestly on several occasions - on the open board. No-one has ever disputed one shred of what I've written - because it was/is the truth. That did not, and does not, stop the conspiracy theorists from spinning their fantastic tales.

It makes me wonder what the psychological dynamic is that leads people to develop fantasized conspiracy theories. An over-active imagination perhaps? Possibly an under-developed intellect? Maybe some other hidden agenda - such as jealousy or some buried profit-motive somewhere? Who knows   :noidea:

My personal take is that a thinking person will apply Occam's razor (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor), and will proceed from there.

- Dan

[jb]

Maxx, T/G, and other defenders of DougS.

I suggest you take another look at the title of the thread.  I believe the whole thread was created to have a shot at Elen, BC, and RWDMA, it was not until his second or third post that I finally got a notion of what a RWDMA was.  My guess is that it's pretty much all inclusive of every "Married American".  That's what ruffled my tail feathers.

WRT who wrote what and when on the RWG, I remember the incident well, and those posts authored by Etna were indeed smoothed a bit by me.  You essentially make my point for me, that's why I have no doubts in my mind as to where Olga's post came from.  BTW, anyone who believed all those RWG conspiracy theories back then were simply not privvy to all the back channel communications between Spencer and me.  I used to apply the clue bat to Spencer via e-mail pretty severely.  You have to remember, he never made a trip to the FSU, nor did he ever date a RW.  Even though he owned and operated a RW discussion board, he was completely clueless about the subject.  It's my understanding he is now selling real estate and happily(??) married to an AW.  I wish him well.

By way of explanation, I think the average person out there with a basic 12-16 year education would be surprised at the number of advanced degree candidates who can't string words together on paper to form a coherent sentence.  The exceptions to that rule are Educators, Lawyers, and Political Scientists, those people absolutely live for the written word.  The rest often depend on at least some ghostwritings to prepare and organize their papers.   I read translations and correct letters and papers for Russian PhD's all the time as they communicate with their peers outside of Russia, in English.  The fact that I read so much of this stuff, letters and papers, written in English by Russians or translated into English by Russians, I'm pretty much an expert in spotting the hand of a native English speaker being applied to the draft English version prepared by a Russian.   

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

I see that Dan has stepped in and cleared the air as I was composing this, *smile*,, he even applied Occam's Razor, one of my favorite logic tools.

[Maxx2]

For the record I doubt the Jack/Dan conspiracy theory.

The common perception that people who engage in conspiracy theory are off kilter is a result of a conspiracy between the media and the government. That is the government uses it's "propaganda assets" as a CIA document calls the media to discredit all conspiracy theory and theorists except criminal conspiracies. Criminals can engage in conspiracies according to the government's law enforcement but government always acts in a open and upfront manner with it's citizens. So believe everything they tell you.

Did you know that Doug claimed at RWG to have worked for the government with "Black projects". Perhaps this and my experiences with a GCG has some how opened Doug and my eyes to "good and evil"? and the rest of you being sheep grazing in the MOB meadow?

Now I see JB (Not Jack Bragg) is offering an alternative conspiracy theory while I was composing this. I'll post this now and see what he says. 

Maxx

[Mamma D]

Thought for the day....

http://upchucky.net/~upchucky/flash-fun/farmer-donkey.swf     

[prince_alfie]

Criminals can engage in conspiracies according to the government's law enforcement but government always acts in a open and upfront manner with it's citizens. So believe everything they tell you.

Snicker, snicker. I work for the government and I guess that I would be the one to know that!
Rightttttt...

Actually, Men in Black was a pretty accurate movie too. But there is no phantom third movie yet.

[Elen]

Thought for the day....

http://upchucky.net/~upchucky/flash-fun/farmer-donkey.swf     

  Actually moral of story was after you saved donkey's life you get a kick for that   

[Bruce]

Mamma D - that was just great!  Thank you very much. 

This is one odd thread with alot of rancor but also alot of funny and interesting points. 

Max, thanks for the Borat link - Ali G is one wild and funny guy. 

Doug S - Now this is a man who at least on this thread needs to learn how to win friends and influence people.  Exactly what was your point starting this thread?  Attacking Elen and trying to pick a bone with BC, now you might as well hit your head against the wall, but then again maybe you are.   

By the way, Elen has been very helpful.  When we ask questions about the best way to get from A to B in Moscow, prices etc. she has always been there for us.  So, despite disagreeing with my opinions 9 times out of 10 , thank you Elen.

Taz and Andrew - thanks for adding a tremendous amount of intelligence to the thread.

JB - it would not be especially entertaining without you calling a spade a spade the way you can do it. 

Doug S - one more point.  You are truly lucky having a great wife and lovely child. 

PW'd - Yes, every man should be prewarned...................but get to the point! 

My take, Russia is a very difficult place to get a wife from.  The dice are loaded from the start, but if one chooses carefully, is patient and smart one can overcome the long odds and find marital bliss (or is that another oxymoron).  I again advise any newbie - exhaust all options here before heading to Russia.  If you must, then take your time....................................

[Doug S]

173 words.

Elen appears to be offended by the characterization of Russian women who decide to marry Americans (RWDMA) and Russian women in general (RW). Perhaps, to accommodate Elen’s sensitivities, the members of this group should more accurately distinguish between the two.

The “Russian bride” experience of men who are either citizens of or live in Western Europe countries is significantly different than that of men who live in the United States. I think BC may be an example of this.

There is strong tendency for Western men who may be desperate for female companionship to accept abusive behavior from Russian women. This appears to occur in all aspects of the process, from gathering information on Internet chat rooms, to courtship, to marriage. I think RWD’s acceptance of Elen may be an example of that.

Not all Russian women are abusive toward Western men, but the majority that come into contact with them appear to be. This could be because abusive Russian women are more aggressive than non-abusive Russian women, and therefore make contact first.

DS

[Admin]

173 words.

Elen appears to be offended by the characterization of Russian women who decide to marry Americans (RWDMA) and Russian women in general (RW). Perhaps, to accommodate Elen’s sensitivities, the members of this group should more accurately distinguish between the two.

The “Russian bride” experience of men who are either citizens of or live in Western Europe countries is significantly different than that of men who live in the United States. I think BC may be an example of this.

There is strong tendency for Western men who may be desperate for female companionship to accept abusive behavior from Russian women. This appears to occur in all aspects of the process, from gathering information on Internet chat rooms, to courtship, to marriage. I think RWD’s acceptance of Elen may be an example of that.

Not all Russian women are abusive toward Western men, but the majority that come into contact with them appear to be. This could be because abusive Russian women are more aggressive than non-abusive Russian women, and therefore make contact first.

DS

Doug,

I want to address one part of your post because I think your hypothesis is fundamentally flawed. You reference "RWD's acceptance of Elen" as an example of "Western men who may be desperate for female companionship to accept abusive behavior from Russian women."

I'll offer a different answer. Since I started RWD there are often people who seek to eliminate a group of members or a single member. Elen has been here for a good long while. She has offended some - and I have heard from some who would have her removed from the site. I have refused - just as I have refused the calls to remove (ban) many, many others.

The reason for my position is that I believe firmly in the value of diversity and inclusivity. There are some members here who are not entirely comfortable with my belief in these regards - but to their credit, they continue to contribute knowing that I desire, and seek, others who do not necessarily subscribe to the mainstream.

Your conclusion that "RWD's acceptance" of any particular member is indicative of a character trait of the board's membership, seems a little far-fetched - and is, IMO, completely inaccurate. "RWD's acceptance" of members is largely due to my policies on board inclusivity.

- Dan