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Author Topic: Trenchcoat's Further Theories on, and Experiences of, Dating in the FSU  (Read 2583 times)

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Online Trenchcoat

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Virus or not, you don't even try to get dates.  That's why you itch. Some say one can go blind as well.  Hire-a-bonk is not really dating.

I know how to get things done on the FSU dating front now BC, working out how it all worked took a while but even then I did get a few dates. Unfortunately the virus intervened just about as I was about to make a move. It's been frustrating to not be able to get out there but I'm hoping in July or August things might have improved enough to allow it.
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Offline BC

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I know how to get things done on the FSU dating front now BC, working out how it all worked took a while but even then I did get a few dates. Unfortunately the virus intervened just about as I was about to make a move. It's been frustrating to not be able to get out there but I'm hoping in July or August things might have improved enough to allow it.

Oh.. I thought you meant dating locally.  Unless you're meeting women in FSU without assistance, it's pretty much an 'arranged meeting' and not really dating.  Of course, such a meeting could lead to further 'real' dates.

Anyhoo, good luck.  Would be nice to see you post actual experiences vs misogynistic hypotheses for a change.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 04:41:03 AM by BC »

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Oh.. I thought you meant dating locally.  Unless you're meeting women there without assistance, it's pretty much an 'arranged meeting' and not really dating.  Of course, such a meeting could lead to further 'real' dates.

Anyhoo, good luck.  Would be nice to see you post actual experiences vs misogynistic hypotheses for a change.

Ayyee!

You quoted Trench, BC ;)

He HAS posted his 'TR's'...  a lass from Kherson who was pushing him for gifts to get her into the UK ... (or so Trench claims ) ...  By his own admission, he doesn't earn enough to import a FSU partner .. So he was wasting her time, anyway..  or falsely declaring his income..

He 'doesn't' want to date, locally as they are are fatties and claiming welfare where he lives, or ... they are 'entitled good looking women seeking a 'successful guy' ..

Trench STILL doesn't get that HE( his misogyny)  is the issue .. he is a sociopath.
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Online Trenchcoat

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Oh.. I thought you meant dating locally.  Unless you're meeting women in FSU without assistance, it's pretty much an 'arranged meeting' and not really dating.  Of course, such a meeting could lead to further 'real' dates.

Anyhoo, good luck.  Would be nice to see you post actual experiences vs misogynistic hypotheses for a change.

I've recalled my experiences quite a number of times here before but I'll briefly reiterate here if only to serve as a break from Coronavirus talk.

First girl I met was in Kiev, but she was from Mariupol at the time and still near the conflict zone. We met on EM and messaged and Skyped beforehand, she was a beautiful girl and friendly. We spent the week together in Kiev, we got on well but there was no chemistry and she was into Theatre, Opera, Orchestra which I am not, I don't mind going just to see what it's like but it's not something I'm into, still an enjoyable time was had. She spoke virtually perfect English from her time at Uni.

Second time I went to Odessa, I spent a couple of days holiday time there by myself as that was where the plane lands to see what it was like. My reason for going was to meet a girl in Nikoleav so after a couple of days in Odessa I went to Nikolaev to meet here by bus. I had just written to her as at the time I just wanted to explore Ukraine more so I guess I just wanted an excuse to get out there and who knows. She looked pretty in her photo but when we met her facial skin was a bit pimply which didn't show in the photos, she still wasn't too bad looking other than that though and wore a nice dress. Anyway we had a meal together but it didn't last that long, we chatted a bit, but she spoke hardly any English, I spoke hardly any Russian and I didn't realise at the time my Russian was worse than I thought it was. That I have since worked  on, still much to do but I can speak and understand a few basic words and phrases now, still far, far off fluent or any great vocabulary knowledge though to understand a full on Russian conversation or phrase. Anyway, she made her excuses to be elsewhere following the meal, that wasn't a great result for me and I was not in a great mood at the time. However you can't get every girl is the way I see it so lesson learned I moved on. I spent the final couple of days or so getting to know the culture better.

Third girl was 'Kherson Girl' we met in Kiev but she was from Kherson, she was beautiful also, and yes I twice made the mistake of not visiting a girl in her home town. Still I enjoyed the time we had and I guess she did too. She had a tendancy for clothing though, shopping in general, not the real top of the range stuff but mid range stuff that would all add up, 50-80 direction. I managed to excuse myself from most off her wants but bought her a few things to be nice. She was intimate with me and seemed into me so I agreed to go on holiday with her abroad, I chose that place to be Cyprus. In Cyprus she was even worse with wanting stuff, I don't believe she was scamming me it was really more because she was into clothes fashion as it's a real big thing for some women. Anyway, I should have handled it better but didn't know how to at the time and gave in a fair bit to be nice to her. We had a good time but long story short though she was a stubborn type and couldn't accept that I could not get her a tourist visa to see me in the UK. She accused me of being a married man and hence didn't want her to come, etc. Main take away is that I made many mistakes, if I had not done so maybe the relationship would of lasted or maybe there wouldn't have been any relationship as fairly short as it was.

The last girl I saw about a year and a half ago was in Minsk, she lived there but I never saw where, Belarus women can be more cautious, I don't have a problem with that and never pressed to see her home, etc. I met her in a restaurant just off the main big square, they were having some military comemoration thing on at the time that was just finishing. She was nice enough looking and neatly turned out however again I could tell there was no attraction. We talked and had lunch then walked around Gorky Park and went on the Ferris Wheel. Everything about her was the opposite of me so I knew it was going nowhere. We talked and I called it off to save us both the trouble, she was content to show me around Minsk but I preferred to move on and check it out myself as I knew our opposite tastes would be frustrating for the both of us. I tried to contact other women but it was a bit late in the day/time too short. One would have met with me but was out of the city at the time.

Anyway, there we have it BC, it's a very brief synopsis for you. Its been quite a journey so far, I've learned a lot about women, the world and me along the way and some members of this forum such as 2tallbill, BillyB and Krimster amiung others have given me some great help and advice. I now think I have cracked it as to how to go about this, I'm not saying I will be successful but I think I know how to do it better is than I did before. Coronavirus is a fly in the ointment though if we can generally be shot off it by July/August time then it may not have been a problem. Other than that I am either doing Winter dating in the FSU, up to now one I have preferred to avoid or resume dating next year assuming we are not having the same problem this winter or next year of course, etc.
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Offline Shadow

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Trench, apart from some obvious mistakes you did not do too bad. You can not expect to hit the jackpot one one try, especially if your skills at home are not on a high level.While you may have already cracked it, let me give you my tips.1. Take short trips. You are just a couple of hours away, meaning you can plan a first date over a weekend, no need for long lasting stays.2. Be decisive. You know already meeting in person is the most important part.3. Plan where you stay and how long, the rest is up to the woman you visit. You are not visiting a tour guide your objective is to get to know a person. The more she lets you in to her life, the better.
4. Understand the signals. If planned friends or family suddenly becomes unavailable understand why.5. Have  plan. First meeting is ok?  Then plan a second more extended meeting to see if you can live with each other. Try not to make it a vacation, as close to everyday life as you can. Meanwhile find out how to make her arrive to you and explain which steps are needed and the time plan.
You might need several more first dates depending on your skill to pre-select the right woman. Do not go for someone who does not like her country or life, it is a sign that she will trade up whenever possible.
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Online Trenchcoat

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Trench, apart from some obvious mistakes you did not do too bad. You can not expect to hit the jackpot one one try, especially if your skills at home are not on a high level.While you may have already cracked it, let me give you my tips.1. Take short trips. You are just a couple of hours away, meaning you can plan a first date over a weekend, no need for long lasting stays.2. Be decisive. You know already meeting in person is the most important part.3. Plan where you stay and how long, the rest is up to the woman you visit. You are not visiting a tour guide your objective is to get to know a person. The more she lets you in to her life, the better.
4. Understand the signals. If planned friends or family suddenly becomes unavailable understand why.5. Have  plan. First meeting is ok?  Then plan a second more extended meeting to see if you can live with each other. Try not to make it a vacation, as close to everyday life as you can. Meanwhile find out how to make her arrive to you and explain which steps are needed and the time plan.
You might need several more first dates depending on your skill to pre-select the right woman. Do not go for someone who does not like her country or life, it is a sign that she will trade up whenever possible.

Thanks Shadow I appreciate your kind words :) Yeah a lot of that I found out along the way, would have been handy to know at the beginning, some of it was probably raised on here near the beginning in various threads but I think some it takes some experiencing to really get an idea why it is the thing to do or not do. The point you make at the end is very important and one I have not heard yet but is indeed very valuable to know. The trade up situation I think happens to many men, they go over there think they have made it with a woman then after bringing her back she moves on as soon as she becomes a permanent resident/citizen. Some women may intend to do that from the outset but many no doubt end up looking around them when they get to the guys country and notice better options than the guy they are with. If there are guys that are better looking, better homes, better cars, better social skills/lives, better wealth, etc, etc I can see that that would be very enticing to a girl who has already seemed to trade up & out of Ukraine or wherever for a better life, that she could keep looking in that direction and if pretty enough etc can get it. I also know that there are many guys at home that wouldn't think twice about going after a pretty FSW after the hard work of bringing her into the country has been done.

I have also been working on myself this past year or so to try and look a better prospect. I realise that I can't just turn up as the person I am without certain things being turn offs that I up fairly recently haven't thought anything off it. So working out a bit in the gym even if I don't look like a full on muscle man and paying greater attention to the stuff I wear, things I do & say and the way I look, etc Looking at some of the guys that go on dating tours last night on You Tube I can see why some of them have problems. Some are fine of course (some are oldish of course) but some even as a guy I can see are unimpressive in look or stature, or behave in a little immature demeanor, etc.

Looking forward though my intention was always to gain an independent income for myself and spend longer out there. I'm not far off doing that now but barring that I sway more towards the meet many strategy and think I know how to go about achieving that better than I have in the past (forgot to mention Lviv in after Kherson girl but before Minsk girl, had a couple of one off dates there). The meet ones were good for gaining experience and finding out about the FSU and culture but it's pretty hit & miss. I did a short weekend trip for the Minsk date but Ukraine is really only where it becomes heap enough for me to use that strategy due to low cost budget flights and greater hotel/apartment options. Otherwise I think I would prefer a meet many situation over a few days or so with probably one meet a day as anything more could get tricky.

So how did you end up in the FSU scene Shadow?
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Offline GenMish

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I've recalled my experiences quite a number of times here before but I'll briefly reiterate here if only to serve as a break from Coronavirus talk.

First girl I met was in Kiev, but she was from Mariupol at the time and still near the conflict zone. We met on EM and messaged and Skyped beforehand, she was a beautiful girl and friendly. We spent the week together in Kiev, we got on well but there was no chemistry and she was into Theatre, Opera, Orchestra which I am not, I don't mind going just to see what it's like but it's not something I'm into, still an enjoyable time was had. She spoke virtually perfect English from her time at Uni.

 

Interesting,
When I went to Russia in the early 90s I found all the quality girls were into Theatre, Opera, Orchestra. Since I didn't want a party girl, I accepted it even though I was woefully ignorant of the Arts. Over the years onnce I understood those Classic Arts, I learned how to appreciate them. I am very grateful to my RW (now my Ex) that she opened a whole world for me. She made me a better person in many ways, and that was just one.

So I guess Im saying, don't strike them off your list for that, benefit from it

Offline ML

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I can appreciate all the fine arts except Opera.  Just can't get into it.  Best part is when the fat lady sings.
Winston Churchill.  The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Online Trenchcoat

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Interesting,
When I went to Russia in the early 90s I found all the quality girls were into Theatre, Opera, Orchestra. Since I didn't want a party girl, I accepted it even though I was woefully ignorant of the Arts. Over the years onnce I understood those Classic Arts, I learned how to appreciate them. I am very grateful to my RW (now my Ex) that she opened a whole world for me. She made me a better person in many ways, and that was just one.

So I guess Im saying, don't strike them off your list for that, benefit from it

Yeah I can see for sure you'll avoid a Party girl with an Arts girl. I don't mind going on the odd occasion, it can be surprising to see how high those ballet dancers can jump & move about, some theatre shows in English at home I can get into a little and follow, orchestra I don't mind as I can relax away, opera so find harder to follow. However, all in all its no really something I would enjoy usually, regularly, it's not really my world or ever has been and not likely will be. I do tend to think it really tends to be more a certain type of person that gets off on all of that stuff and I just don't in the main.

I've no problem with seeing it once as it's kind of synonymous with Kiev and Ukraine in general. However I wouldn't really want to feel like a fraud to a woman by making out I'm into it while I'm not so, I would kind of feel like being an imposter of someone who I am not. When in Lviv I was messaging a woman who was into orchestra and the like, the messaging stopped when it quickly became apparent to both of us that we moved in separate worlds.

The girl I met in Minsk actually worked in a theatre and again we were the total opposites and that was a problem. Before we met I voiced my concerns but she denied we were different and instead thought we had stuff in common, I couldn't think what, lol.

For me I don't think those type of women suit me. The first girl I met wasn't a total opposite she was quite refined and we got on well enough but I found her a bit too stiff in terms of relaxing with a guy and just getting into a relationship. It was like there was a long term plan to follow of patiently waiting with little to no action before if and only if the winds were blowing in the right direction then you might just get access to some sort of a relationship. So yes you can get a good girl I agree but I don't reckon that type of good girl would ever suit me.

In a side note we did go to a Jazz Club in Kiev and I enjoyed the Jazz Music their immensely but that was more like a night club type of setting.

On the other side of the coin there are party girls. An all out party girl wouldn't suit me I'm not that far out for that. I know also that they can be bad girls, however some girls with a slight party vent can be fun to be with and some like all sorts of fun stuff so not necessarily nightclubbing.

In general it's difficult to know, I have a better idea of where to get a stable girl now other than Arts girls but stable girls can sometimes be too stable and lacking in something maybe. My bet bet for the moment would be to venture forth to date some more women in a meet many situation once this virus thing allows if possible I think.
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Would be nice to see you post actual experiences vs misogynistic hypotheses for a change.

+1
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
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Trenchcoat's Further Theories on, and Experiences of, Dating in the FSU
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2020, 01:56:57 AM »
+1

I believe you were party to misogynistic hypotheses recently too Bill ;D
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Offline Shadow

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Trenchcoat's Further Theories on, and Experiences of, Dating in the FSU
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2020, 08:02:14 AM »
Trenchcoat while it my be something you wanted to do anyway, do not change yourself just for catching a woman. Understand that your life partner will have o live with your worst habits, not you on your best behaviour unless you can keep it up forever.
My history is somewhere here as I at the wime wrote some reports.To make it short, after the rest of the world I decided why not try the FSU as well. First trip to Kiev got me a friend, not enough chemistry from both sides. But we were close enough to exchange profiles, comment on them and search profiles for each other.One of those was in Moscow, and a weekend trip later the future MrsShadow was met. That was in 2005, when things were a lot different from today, but the basic things never change, just the amount of ways to exchange thoughts before the trip has increased a lot.This year we are together for 15 years, and married for 12 thanks to the laws in the Netherlands that allow the same rights for married and unmarried partners.
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Trenchcoat's Further Theories on, and Experiences of, Dating in the FSU
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2020, 12:46:26 PM »
Trenchcoat while it my be something you wanted to do anyway, do not change yourself just for catching a woman. Understand that your life partner will have o live with your worst habits, not you on your best behaviour unless you can keep it up forever.
My history is somewhere here as I at the wime wrote some reports.To make it short, after the rest of the world I decided why not try the FSU as well. First trip to Kiev got me a friend, not enough chemistry from both sides. But we were close enough to exchange profiles, comment on them and search profiles for each other.One of those was in Moscow, and a weekend trip later the future MrsShadow was met. That was in 2005, when things were a lot different from today, but the basic things never change, just the amount of ways to exchange thoughts before the trip has increased a lot.This year we are together for 15 years, and married for 12 thanks to the laws in the Netherlands that allow the same rights for married and unmarried partners.

Thanks for sharing your story Shadow, it's an interesting way to go about it, were you able to sort out a partner for your friend as well using that method?

Well I know what you mean, I think any changes have to be compatible with me and something I can maintain. I don't mind changes so long as they seem reasonable and improve me. I guess there is more than one way of looking at it all.

If I wasn't too fussed over the type of girl  then changes wouldn't really be necessary to a point. A lot of pretty girls though will probably be looking for a guy that looks reasonably impressive. If a guy looked like he was from the other end of the spectrum realistically he probably isn't going to last long.

Last year I had laser eye surgery done (LASEK), the results were and still are amazing and I'm glad to get rid of those damn glasses I had to start wearing from when I was around 15/16. I probably look better for it as well as for most people I think it's rarely a good look.

Since then I have been working out though that's been put on hold a little due to the lockdown and some problems coming up. That's over with now (I hope) so I should be able to get back to it at home with some gym equipment I've bought in.

That said I know there is only so far I can go with it. I don't think surgery would help me out as I would likely end up looking weird and it costing me a lot. I think in general I will have to press on as an everyday looking guy. What I have been looking into is some permanent fillers but it looks like that's best done in the US as the market is totally unregulated in the UK and bad stories are abound. I'm in my early forties but there are of course signs of ageing and they rarely look good. I don't want to kid myself and be one of those guys where some pretty youngish (say late twenties/early thirties) girl hangs out with me and I'm looking a state and past it. It can be why the joke can be on the guy and he gets had over by younger girls.

At the moment though I need to concentrate on building up my finances and situation to be (hopefully) well placed by the time I get back over there.
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Trenchcoat's Further Theories on, and Experiences of, Dating in the FSU
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2020, 01:36:26 AM »
I nmanaged to gt hr out of being interested in a guy that only needed a place for his business trips, and th next guy was the jackpot for her.The thing is that someone who can look at you sideways often manages to find a better match.
So let me inform you about the mind of a woman, even though I do not claim to be an expert here.  What does a (pretty) woman look for?
Pretty women will not be that impressed by looks or money. They can use it, especially if they hae a character that allows them to. But any pretty woman has enough good looking men interest as well as mn throwing money at her. Being one of them will not get you a lot further than sharing some intimate moment.What you need to offer is stability and a comfortable future. Remember afte some tim she will only be as pretty as hr mother and grandmother, which means your bond should by then not be based on looks alone.Impress her by showing you are reliable and smart enough to build a future with. Be aware tat you will need to guide her while adjusting to a new country, and with FSU women you should not expect her to be your main income or retirement plan. You are the one making decisions, you are the provider and  alpha in your family. You should earn and keep her respect, else you may end up with having to start over.
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Trenchcoat's Further Theories on, and Experiences of, Dating in the FSU
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2020, 02:57:19 AM »
Be aware tat you will need to guide her while adjusting to a new country, and with FSU women you should not expect her to be your main income or retirement plan. You are the one making decisions, you are the provider and  alpha in your family. You should earn and keep her respect, else you may end up with having to start over.

BANG ON
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Trenchcoat's Further Theories on, and Experiences of, Dating in the FSU
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2020, 01:30:15 PM »
I nmanaged to gt hr out of being interested in a guy that only needed a place for his business trips, and th next guy was the jackpot for her.The thing is that someone who can look at you sideways often manages to find a better match.
So let me inform you about the mind of a woman, even though I do not claim to be an expert here.  What does a (pretty) woman look for?
Pretty women will not be that impressed by looks or money. They can use it, especially if they hae a character that allows them to. But any pretty woman has enough good looking men interest as well as mn throwing money at her. Being one of them will not get you a lot further than sharing some intimate moment.What you need to offer is stability and a comfortable future. Remember afte some tim she will only be as pretty as hr mother and grandmother, which means your bond should by then not be based on looks alone.Impress her by showing you are reliable and smart enough to build a future with. Be aware tat you will need to guide her while adjusting to a new country, and with FSU women you should not expect her to be your main income or retirement plan. You are the one making decisions, you are the provider and  alpha in your family. You should earn and keep her respect, else you may end up with having to start over.

I see your point Shadow, that someone else can see the way that most others are likely to perceive you/I. Whereas it's not always easy to be introspective and see everything that others see. That they may see where two people are likely to fit together well personality wise, etc. It could be an interesting way forward on this. Someone who comes across as decent and reliable but not in love may be a better matchmaker than a partner.

Well my original idea was that after learning the language a bit the girl could take on a part time job and she could keep that money to pay for anything she wanted, clothes etc. The Kherson girl rejected this, she was willing to have children but apparently the money earning was solely to be down to me with her spending it, lol. Since then though I have come around to the idea of a girl not working, if she does the domestic stuff then her having a part time job might be more trouble than it's worth. In the UK a lot of stuff is on the state, healthcare, dentistry for kids, education, etc so I could probably manage ok with it. The Kherson girl was basically model like, capable of scores of a good 9 on photofeeler on some of her photos. I think any guy would have big hang ups of her straying and other guys on the pick up. It basically broke down though as she wouldn't accept that as a young girl in a low paid job I couldn't get her a tourist visa. She wanted to come to the UK first and refused to see me in her hometown of Kherson until she visited me first.

I didn't take that as a good sign, I tried to find other compromises like another country but she wouldn't accept that. It was all a bit perculiar really I never really could work out if she was being true or not. There were signs that she was into the prospect of a relationship with me, stuff she said, etc that I don't think a girl just after a guy to buy her stuff would have said. I think her main problem was that she was too stubborn in her ways and I made mistakes in handling her.

I've no doubt guys with money & good looks would be lining up to date her in this country. She even had a few 'I would date her' comments on her photos on photofeeler. I thought yeah that sounds about right, lol. I think you could be quite right though Shadow a girl that knows she can rely on you, that you can consistently provide and lead the way may be more comforting to her to a good looking or wealthy guy that can only offer that one thing.
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2020, 01:39:13 PM »
While I did not read all details, you should be happy you dropped the Kherson girl. Any girl that prefers to travel abroad with you before meeting where her friends and family can meet you is likely not ever going to let you meet them. You might be a guy she likes enough to spend some time with, but not for keeping.Her reactions show tat she has either been damaged or is used to play the games.

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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2020, 02:04:32 PM »
While I did not read all details, you should be happy you dropped the Kherson girl. Any girl that prefers to travel abroad with you before meeting where her friends and family can meet you is likely not ever going to let you meet them. You might be a guy she likes enough to spend some time with, but not for keeping.Her reactions show tat she has either been damaged or is used to play the games.

Yeah that's what I thought that I would probably unlikely meet her/her family's in Kherson even after she came to see me in the UK (not that, that was possible due to visa regs of course). She accused me of having a family and being a married man, etc. In fairness I had not yet shown her photos of my house (it's a small terrace) which she had asked to see but in total we had only spent two weeks together and I never thought it a big deal but perhaps she read into it thinking I was married, I told her I was single and not married but she wouldn't accept it.

So I wonder if she is damaged goods having been hurt by previous relationships. The only previous relationship she told me about was with a single Swedish guy who had a couple of kids. All she said about him was that he treated her like a child, lol. I wonder how that all went down.

On all her social media she has many photos of herself, her with other girls, her friends presumably but none of other guys anywhere. I've heard that FSW don't really have male friends, they are either dating them or it's just girl friends. I know she made a comment on one of her social media about preferring to keep her relationship life private. In the past year or so she has not posted any new photos which is kind of strange. I know she is still going but for a very pretty girl she definitely seems a strange one. I struggle to work her out.

She apparently lives in a small two room flat sharing it with her older brother and his other half who also has a kid. She showed me photos of them but no sign of them on social media at all or any other of her family, mother or father. She's on VK, Facebook, Instagram & OK, but pretty much the same stuff on each. I can't really fathom why such a pretty girl is (presumably) still single. I know it's a poor area and she may have high hopes but I would have thought one guy would have taken her on and she find him acceptable enough. I wonder though if a lot of guys pass over on her seeing her as too high maintenance and prefer to settle with a girl that they see as more suitable/serious for setting up a family with in terms of being less strain of finances.
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2020, 10:57:14 PM »
While I did not read all details, you should be happy you dropped the Kherson girl. Any girl that prefers to travel abroad with you before meeting where her friends and family can meet you is likely not ever going to let you meet them. You might be a guy she likes enough to spend some time with, but not for keeping.Her reactions show tat she has either been damaged or is used to play the games.

'OK'..

I invited V to Cyprus in December, because we were having unseasonably good weather and she came from Siberia .. I paid for the ticket.

Remarkably, she invited  me back to Siberia in February ..

Gosh, we even married ..


I believe you might be suggesting paying for holidays to exotic locations for a first meeting ... with which I'd tend to agree is not a good plan ... 
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2020, 11:56:56 PM »
Second meet Mobers, I went with her to Cyprus for the second meet, the first meet was in Kiev, unless you're suggesting Kiev is exotic ;D

I should of gone to her hometown first and foremost, mistake done.

However, the hang up I'm left with is why is a model looking girl not able to get a local guy?

She's in her late twenties now and it still looks like she isn't in a permanent relationship with someone, i.e Married. That is very perculiar to me. I'm sure if she was married that would be all over her social media pages.

I've thought a lot on this and I've come to the conclusion that she is with local guys the same as she was with me. That she demands stuff, keeps in bugging them for it, they at some point refuse to buy her anymore stuff and the relationship descends into argument and ends quickly because of it. She is a shop worker girl that only earns around $150-180 ish a month or so I am told. So low paid and so looks to guys to buy her the stuff she craves. I know Krimster told us before that he found pretty much each girl he met had a weakness for something, hers I believe is clothes.

So she doesn't earn enough to move elsewhere. She just earns enough to pay for her food extra a month, so living from month to month, hand to mouth existence. I know the first girl I met in Kiev was telling me how she would like to move out of Mariupol to a better provincial city but it was money she didn't have, at least not at that time, she worked in a travel agency.

So anyway, I'm guessing apart from apparently long hours that she does at work she may have occasional short term relationships. That apart from the local relationships that don't work out that she may be has casual relationships where a guy will treat her for a bit, she gives him some and then they both move on, possibly.

Either way were probably talking of a lot of very short term relationships over a period of years that don't go nowhere. There's basically a lot of competition around from pretty girls that while might not be very pretty model like don't whine on incessantly at the guy to buy them stuff. Hence their relationships last, hers don't. She basically can't move off the need for wanting stuff as soon as she gets with a guy and that ruins the relationship. I don't think it's a thought pattern she can get away from and may not even realise that trying to hit a guy for stuff so early on that she is ruining the relationship. I would put this down to her kind of arbitary stubborn streak where she literally thinks 'Its the guy that is supposed to provide this' so hits him with it from the word go not accepting that it's not supposed to literally mean from the start of dating together. She probably wants to see a guy is good for it of course so again doesn't want to wait it out for a guy that may not be. She's a hot girl so figures she's worth it.


I think there we have it guys. I know in one of the vids I watched on You Tube a guy in Nikoleav was complaining how materialistic many if the women were that they are not wife material, he was of course not the most productive looking guy though. Anyway I'm pretty sure I've cracked it in my thought process there. The local guys don't see her as wife material because of her constant asking for stuff is incompatible with wanting a girl to have kids with as the money can't go on loads of clothes & stuff. So she is seen at best as a fun time girl and at worst and probably most often as an unwanted drain on finances that can't be kept up. I think the way she is and the rigidness which she applies the gender role models to suit her wants is why she keeps falling down.
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2020, 01:05:50 AM »
What you are forgetting is that you have only information of a very small portion of her life. What her life really is like you may have no idea at all. This is why it is important that you are let in to her everyday surroundings. FSUW are masters in hiding their reality and disclosing only on a need to know basis.

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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2020, 07:46:19 AM »
What you are forgetting is that you have only information of a very small portion of her life. What her life really is like you may have no idea at all. This is why it is important that you are let in to her everyday surroundings. FSUW are masters in hiding their reality and disclosing only on a need to know basis.

I see you have gained much wisdom on the ways of FSW Shadow. She told me some stuff of her life and I saw a few photos of her brother, other half and their young son who she lived with in the two room flat. Her mother lived separate just a bit out of the city. She never showed me any photos of her mother or father though. I showed her some of my family, brother, mother I think. She told me she didn't really get in with her brother & especially not his other half. So I guess the situation in the flat was a bit too cosy for all concerned. She liked children though apparently and seemed to like their young son I think it was or possibly a daughter, 5ish maybe.

Anyway, I found it kind of perplexing that she was being so rigid on the way it all went down if her living situation wasn't all that great. I know when we agreed in Kiev what to do she asked me to promise, which I did, but I didn't read into it that it was a rigid process whereby I couldn't add anything in between like a visit to her. If a tourist visa was easy to get for her I would have done so, but it's virtually impossible for a young girl in low paid work and even trying would be much effort and more money. Seemed reasonable to come and see her first. I want expecting to see her family but she mentioned them so maybe it was an essential in her mind. I think she might not have been able to figure out why else I would want to visit. It could be that she had a very specific idea on how things would be done/progress and me other ideas.

Anyhow, the meeting in their own city certainly isn't a mistake I am willing to remake, just too much time & effort put in to just risk it all falling apart. I've learnt a lot from the experience, the character of some FSW, not as much as you of course but learning how they are can help avoid future mistakes I think.
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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2020, 09:18:47 AM »
FSUW are masters in hiding their reality and disclosing only on a need to know basis.

Huh? We really are living in parallel Universes... I have yet to meet any FSUW who behaved in such manner.

May be your due diligence  or spicy senses needed tuning.

You clearly  had then set right re your good lady.

We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

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« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2020, 02:53:07 PM »
Huh? We really are living in parallel Universes... I have yet to meet any FSUW who behaved in such manner.

May be your due diligence  or spicy senses needed tuning.

You clearly  had then set right re your good lady.

I think it's the case where it depends upon the FSW. The FSU is a vast territory, even Ukraine alone is fairly large and has the difference of west Ukrainians and east Ukrainians then everything in between.

Having read more into the history of Ukraine in recent times and the different tribes and ethnic groups that moved in over time people there can exhibit different attitudes and behaviours. Then of course there is the Soviet legacy and it's aftermath.

Having done some brief research into the various tribes & ethnic groups I believe Kherson girl could very likely have once come from a family of the Tartar ethnic group. Her look, attitude and behaviours tend to fit with those that are common to that ethnic group/tribe. She is of course not Islamic but instead Orthodox and she speaks Russian and identifies as Russian/Ukrainian Russian. She has a similar facial shape to a lot of tartar people. She is of white skin tone while tartar people can also be white but perhaps more often slightly swarthy in skin tone. Her hair like most tartar people is a rich dark brown. She has a colourful taste in clothing and is sensitive about her skin (fussy I would say ;) ) Similar again to tartar women often holding similar attitudes to sensitivities to skin and historically how they dressed is colourful clothing. She may not even realise it herself but I'm guessing that there is a strong chance she is descended from someone(s) who were originally tartar that or at the very least it became a learned way for many people around that area.

Tartar people are/were of course mainly in the nearby Crimea region and many lived there before Stalin deported them to the Asian part of the Soviet Union. Many Tartar girls seem to share the same features and I reckon are probably prettier than average on the whole. Unfortunately most girls that still identify as Tartar are part of the Islamic faith. That's not something I have any personal grudge against but I know it would not be a scene I would feel comfortable in so it's a no go for me.

I personally find the history of the Crimean Khanate facinating and the Mongol & Cossack, etc influence in that. It's certainly a rich history and gives the area and Ukraine in general it's own identity separate from Russia. I love seeing all the curious Cossack type of gear from olden times they used to wear and the hair stylings that went with it. It's quite a unique look.

Anyway kind of a shame that the Crimes area is now under Russian control and apparently suffering once again. Peace talks are up again but I don't know if they will come to much or involve Crimea. I've never visited there but would like to some day I think. Presently though I hear it's not the easiest place to go do dating, virus or not.
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« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2020, 05:18:22 PM »
Tatar, not Tartar. 


The rest of your post is absolute gibberish, with no basis in reality.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
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