Afghanistan

[BillyB]

On both occasions, Trump did nothing to enforce the negotiated peace deal. Those veterans should've known that, right?

Trump gave an interview. He said he removed troops out of Afghanistan reducing the numbers to 2500. He bombed the Taliban if they were violating the peace deal and no American troops were killed in the last 20 months. He called the Taliban leader and told him he will send troops to kill him if they violate the deal. Being tough with the Taliban pacified them. Biden died everything possible to screw things up, ruin America's reputation, and hand things over to China and the Taliban, including making the Taliban one of the most powerful armies on earth. China won't have to fund their military for awhile. Biden said he accepts responsibility in yesterdays speech but said Trump's May 1st pullout didn't work insisting Trump get the blame. Who was making the decisions from Jan 20th to May 1st?

1. The devices don't have enough storage to do what the group claims.  According to the manual it has enough storage for approximately 22000 profiles, likely less with pictures. http://info.publicintelligence.net/HIIDE4.02.pdf

The veterans group did not claim the Taliban got one device. The Taliban acquired devices(plural) of every person that ever helped us over there.

We'll just have to wait until further information is known, but is premature to cry wolf.
 

Easy to say since you're not trapped in Afghanistan with your biometrics stored in those devices. Those who try to change their names and appearance will eventually be discovered and tortured if not killed.




Today, Pentagon spokesman answering reporters questions admitting to thousands of ISIS were released from American military base prisons by the Taliban. So not only did we turn over lethal military equipment, we left them terrorist prisoners to be released. You know more terrorist acts besides the one yesterday will happen to Americans. Americans are sure to die and the seeds of a future war have been planted. ISIS and the Taliban will only grow from here on out.

[2tallbill]

I posted my reflections, not replying to a post or directed at any poster.  How you can feel I am misdirecting eludes me.

Day after day you present the lefty talking point. First was your either or fallacy.

All Psaki will talk about is how many have been evacuated and break it down by
the day, the hour etc. It's a Lefty talking point. Nobody on the left will say how
many will be left behind or how many is acceptable.

The number of NON-Americans evacuated is irrelevant to the number of Americans
left behind.

As for the numbers of Americans, I've seen 1500 kicked around, 500 of which are in
contact with officials and desire to leave and 1000 more estimated.  Of the thousand,
I've seen reported that an undetermined number of these may not be US citizens.

I do hope that all wanting to leave can do so, and am confident everyone is doing
everything possible to make that happen.

I am sure now that they screwed it up, that Team Biden would prefer to get all the
Americans safely home. HOWEVER, he screwed it up. Team Biden is responsible for
the chaos. 

[2tallbill]

Misdirection?

Biden is not obligated to Trump's deals any more than Trump was obligated to
follow through with Obama's idiotic deals. The comparison fits

[BC]

Biden owns this not Trump.

http://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf

I assume you have read the terms and conditions that were agreed upon?

[2tallbill]

including making the Taliban one of the most powerful armies on earth.

Hahahahaha!

They aren't in the top 50.

[BC]

Biden is not obligated to Trump's deals any more than Trump was obligated to
follow through with Obama's idiotic deals. The comparison fits

The title reads:

Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan
between the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States
as a state and is known as the Taliban and the United States of America

How do you think the Taliban would react if Biden announced he would renege on the agreement?  They would as well, and things could be very, very different on the ground in Kabul.  Not in a good way either.

[tfcrew]

Person posted he thought it would go better under Trump.   My comment was referencing his trump comment.

I know...tit for tat ad nauseum. 

[tfcrew]

A relevant question is what condition are these items like helicopters in?

They needed an oil change. Why are you so obtuse?
Where was Peppermint Patty? We need her expert outlook!
 
   

 
 

[fathertime]

Day after day you present the lefty talking point. First was your either or fallacy.

All Psaki will talk about is how many have been evacuated and break it down by
the day, the hour etc. It's a Lefty talking point. Nobody on the left will say how
many will be left behind or how many is acceptable.

The number of NON-Americans evacuated is irrelevant to the number of Americans
left behind.



I am sure now that they screwed it up, that Team Biden would prefer to get all the
Americans safely home. HOWEVER, he screwed it up. Team Biden is responsible for
the chaos.

This appears to be straight partisanship.   I wouldn't place everything on Biden.  He has to play the hand he was dealt and it wasn't that good a hand.  It appears overall things are moving along in the right direction.  Rarely do plans work out perfectly, but he has to get it done, and he is.

Fathertime! 

[2tallbill]

This appears to be straight partisanship.

Lazy and without merit.

Name an example of what I've said about Biden's Afghanistan fiasco that hasn't
been said repeatedly by the ideological left, I won't hold my breath. I have posted
countless articles by NPR, CNN, Time, Newsweek, Politico and others that back up
what I've said. Along with quotes by elected Democrats.

I wouldn't place everything on Biden.

You wouldn't but most would.

He has to play the hand he was dealt and it wasn't that good a hand. 

I agree he is almost always wrong and probably suffering from dementia.   
You walked into that one

[fathertime]

Name an example of what I've said about Biden's Afghanistan fiasco that hasn't
been said repeatedly by the ideological left, I won't hold my breath. I have posted
countless articles by NPR, CNN, Time, Newsweek, Politico and others that back up
what I've said. Along with quotes by elected Democrats.

You are using sources that you claim are disreputable and also claim are always left wing.  These are your sentiments.  Now suddenly you are you acting as if they are preaching the truth and not trying to make money on the news.   
Of course my own opinion is that the sources are reporting as they always do. 
Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

Trump gave an interview. He said he removed troops out of Afghanistan reducing the numbers to 2500. He bombed the Taliban if they were violating the peace deal and no American troops were killed in the last 20 months. He called the Taliban leader and told him he will send troops to kill him if they violate the deal. Being tough with the Taliban pacified them. Biden died everything possible to screw things up, ruin America's reputation, and hand things over to China and the Taliban, including making the Taliban one of the most powerful armies on earth. China won't have to fund their military for awhile. Biden said he accepts responsibility in yesterdays speech but said Trump's May 1st pullout didn't work insisting Trump get the blame. Who was making the decisions from Jan 20th to May 1st?

It would help your cause if you at least read, and understood, the conditions of the peace deal. Let me at least make it easier for you. here:

http://www.axios.com/trump-taliban-agreement-doha-biden-8dabe136-6dce-4e43-9289-98551bd47ed6.html

Further, Trump made no threats that you spoke off, LMAO. Think about it. Why make idle verbal threats if you already *have* a peace deal with a clearly defined tenets. Trump wasn't even in attendance when the deal was made.

Taliban repeatedly violated that deal since its signing, and Trump didn't do anything! You may not like to read/hear that fact, but you still cannot change that reality.

Today, Pentagon spokesman answering reporters questions admitting to thousands of ISIS were released from American military base prisons by the Taliban. So not only did we turn over lethal military equipment, we left them terrorist prisoners to be released. You know more terrorist acts besides the one yesterday will happen to Americans. Americans are sure to die and the seeds of a future war have been planted. ISIS and the Taliban will only grow from here on out.

...and that's one of the reasons why those originally involved in drafting this silly peace deal want to distance themselves from it now. On the one hand, it was conditioned the deal hinges on the Taliban making sure that no terrorist/militant who wished harm against the US will find itself on Afghan soil - yet it forced the Afghan government to release prisoners that included ISIS and Al-Qaeda, who are now fighting alongside the Taliban. They also just killed 13 US soldier yesterday.


This is what Trump thought last April of Biden's plan for withdrawal:


http://www.axios.com/trump-praises-biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-5f4c2449-0725-40b7-b0c3-7892e6146344.html

[Gator]

To be fair, Trump kind of did, as he negotiated the terms of withdrawal. 

The withdrawal deal Trump negotaited was not perfect nor cemented in details. 

Now pause.....take a breath.......and think about the many withdrawal decision variables that were under Biden's control since January. 

And now you claim it is partially Trump's fault because Biden's hands were tied?  Before claiming such, please consider the many Trump policies Biden has reversed since January.  It's easy to count - just go to the following:

           -  55 executive orders,
           -  33 presidential memoranda,
           -  99 proclamations,
           -  20 notices             

 

Biden made a mistake in setting an arbitrary deadline.

Deadline!?  The deadline is one of Biden's smaller mistakes.  Let me list the dumb and dumber Biden decisions:

           Dumb - Evacuating the military before American citizens.   

           Dumber - Abandoning Bagram (if we evacuated from there, the 13 servicemen would still be alive, and more Afghani would have been evacuated, under better vetting).

[Gator]

From 2Tall's post, Fathertime wrote this about Biden:  "He has to play the hand he was dealt and it wasn't that good a hand."

I watched CNN coverage and this is exactly what Cuomo said (except Cuomo said cards not hand).  So now we know the source of Fathertime's frequent mistakes.   

[tfcrew]

There are [as of today] some 10,000 comments on this link ...Find just one that supports the JB administration----

[Gator]

How do you think the Taliban would react if Biden announced he would renege on the agreement?  They would as well, and things could be very, very different on the ground in Kabul.  Not in a good way either.

Biden was never going to renege.  Biden was committed to withdrawal even more than Trump.  And this zeal to withdraw perhaps explains some of his bad battlefield decisions.

Keep in mind that over 10 years ago, Biden opposed the surge to 110,000 troops authorized by Obama.  That was perhaps the one time in history when Biden was correct.  In retrospect, we can now see there should not have been a surge, and instead a withdrawal.   

[fathertime]

From 2Tall's post, Fathertime wrote this about Biden:  "He has to play the hand he was dealt and it wasn't that good a hand."

I watched CNN coverage and this is exactly what Cuomo said (except Cuomo said cards not hand).  So now we know the source of Fathertime's frequent mistakes.

You know nothing actually.  I didn't see (And still haven't seen) Cuomo's statement.  If cuomo says what you say he did, he and I agree.  So it was you that made one of your frequent mistakes. 

Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

Keep in mind that over 10 years ago, Biden opposed the surge to 110,000 troops authorized by Obama.  That was perhaps the one time in history when Biden was correct.  In retrospect, we can now see there should not have been a surge, and instead a withdrawal.

 
Biden is president, and you are not.  He has access to much more information and top level people than you do.  When you say he made a mistake, you are speaking from ignorance in comparison to Biden.  Had you been in the same seat biden was in (Thankfully you aren't), you might have made the very same decisions he did.  It is very easy to armchair quarterback in a partisan sort of way as several do here.  Regardless, the decision is made, soon we will be out of afghanistan.   To me, it all looks like partisanship  on steroids. 

Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

The withdrawal deal Trump negotaited was not perfect nor cemented in details. 

Not perfect, Gator?

Let’s see:
1. Trump had the Pakistani release Mullah Baradar from prison, who now is likely to rule Afghanistan.
2. Taliban Doha negotiators are ex-Gitmo prisoners with axes to grind against the Afghan government.
3. Trump negotiated a peace deal with militants the US doesn’t even recognize as a legitimate ruling body, and at the same time shun the actual ruling government of Afghanistan.
4. Trump promise to withdraw all US troops in a given period with a definite deadline.
5. Trump lifts all sanctions against the Talibans, including lifting the arms embargo.
6. It agrees to Taliban demands to have the Afghan government release 5,000 prisoners, which included Al Qaeda and ISIS fighters - plus - an additional 1,000 held up in Bagram airfield base.
7. Trump agrees to immediately cease military support of the Afghan force in Afghanistan if Talibans cease all violence against the US force.

While I will always support getting out of all these endless wars we keep getting mucked up in, but for someone who authored a silly book titled ‘Art Of The Deal’, the Doha Agreement was a rabid and total sellout if not a downright f@CK up. Even the very people he sent to negotiate this deal believed this was a fiasco.

http://time.com/5794643/trumps-disgraceful-peace-deal-taliban/?amp=true

Within days, if not hours, they inked this ‘peace deal’ Talibans began assassinating Afghan civilians.

Trump emboldened, armed, and reinforced the Taliban force at the same time stopped supporting the Afghan army.

Trump bears total responsibility of everything that unfolded in Afghanistan today. And since he guaranteed release of the 6,000 prisoners, which included ISIS militants held in Afghan jails, he is solely responsible for the ISIS suicide bomber attack that killed 13 US soldiers and 170 Afghans.

[fathertime]

Within days, if not hours, they inked this ‘peace deal’ Talibans began assassinating Afghan civilians.

Trump emboldened, armed, and reinforced the Taliban force at the same time stopped supporting the Afghan army.

Trump bears total responsibility of everything that unfolded in Afghanistan today. And since he guaranteed release of the 6,000 prisoners, which included ISIS militants held in Afghan jails, he is solely responsible for the ISIS suicide bomber attack that killed 13 US soldiers and 170 Afghans.

Assuming what you are saying is true, which it probably is, at the very minimum Trump should pipe down at this time.  A bonus would have been if trump stood behind biden.  Trump doesn't possess the ability to these sort of things though.  Instead he will weakly try to whip up his dwindling base.  He will continue to foment discord and divide as best he can. 

Very little said here about Biden striking at some isis planners.  Had it been trump doing the striking we would have been hearing how 'tough' he was.   Let's be done with Afghanistan and use our resources within our own borders.

Fathertime!

[GQBlues]

Assuming what you are saying is true, which it probably is, at the very minimum Trump should pipe down at this time. 

Fathertime!

So the Taliban - the leaders are sitting at the table, and they're negotiating with the Afghan government right now about some kind of peace deal, you know, cease-fire or some kind of interim government, the thing that's supposed to end the war.

But at the same time they're doing that, they've launched this very aggressive assassination campaign, which is basically targeting the elites and the educated classes, the people and the women - the people who have benefited most and the people who have really stepped to the fore since 9/11. It's the 9/11 generation, the post-2001 generation, which, basically, the United States has enabled.

And so it's educated people. It's women. It's women's rights activists. It's people with master's degrees and Ph.D.s. And they're targeting them - judges, lawyers, journalists, aid workers - one after the other. So I think we're at pretty close to 500 assassinations since the peace agreement was signed.

http://www.npr.org/2021/03/04/973604904/trumps-deal-to-end-war-in-afghanistan-leaves-biden-with-a-terrible-situation

[BC]

One of the major hard currency the US has earned over many decades is that the US stands by its agreements. Partners, allies, international organizations, and even enemies could depend on the US keeping to the terms of international agreements, good or bad, even if others do not keep their word in full.  It is a principle that should stand solid, as doing otherwise only lowers the value of our word.

Much of our 'currency' was placed in doubt in the recent past.  The value of our agreements was, and in many ways is still, being questioned by other countries and international organizations.

Good or bad, such agreements are not made between presidents and other countries, but between The United States of America and other countries. With our votes, we delegate the power to act on behalf of our nation.

Who knows what aspects we will have to deal with when facing the Taliban in the future.  By firmly keeping our word, we only gain leverage in any future relations and negotiations.  By defaulting, we lose, not only to the Taliban and whomever will rule in Afghanistan, but with any other future international agreement as well.

Pointing fingers at Trump, Biden or anyone else for faults with our international affairs and agreements, is pointing a finger at the United States of America.  Any screw-ups are OUR screw-ups.  We ALL need to own them, and take responsibility. 

JMHO

[ML]

Good or bad, such agreements are not made between presidents and other countries, but between The United States of America and other countries. With our votes, we delegate the power to act on behalf of our nation.

Pointing fingers at Trump, Biden or anyone else for faults with our international affairs and agreements, is pointing a finger at the United States of America.  Any screw-ups are OUR screw-ups.  We ALL need to own them, and take responsibility. 

Quite right; and I have made this argument repeatedly with respect to Putin and the Russian people.

It is wrong to say that Russian people cannot be blamed for the actions of Putin.

Russian people have to own the illegal takeover of Crimea and the illegal invasion of Eastern Ukraine with the tens of thousands of deaths involved and the almost total destruction of the economy and infrastructure there.

[2tallbill]

You are using sources that you claim are disreputable and also claim are always left wing.  These are your sentiments.  Now suddenly you are you acting as if they are preaching the truth and not trying to make money on the news.   
Of course my own opinion is that the sources are reporting as they always do. 
Fathertime!

No you said repeatedly that I was a partisan hack and that my comments on this
subject were partisan. Now you are changing your argument, because I showed
without question that people on both sides have said Biden screwed this up and
is continuing to screw it up.

[2tallbill]

How do you think the Taliban would react if Biden announced he would renege on the agreement? 

False dichotomy fallacy, you do this all the time.

Trump wanted to leave, so did Biden, so does 2tallbill. Nobody said that they wanted
to renege on the agreement. So STOP IT.

Biden changed the agreement. Do you remember we were going to leave in May.
Did we renege on the agreement? No, team Biden altered the timeline. Stop with
the subterfuge.

Biden screwed it up. There is no other way to look at it. He should have sent the
civilians home first. He closed the Bagram airbase making it more difficult to get
American civilians home.

You never answered my question

How many Americans do we leave behind? Where do we draw the line?