Vaccine Misinformation

[Jumper1]

I don't see recognizing natural immunity as counter to vaccination.

It's two different things and I highly doubt the above studies take in account prior exposer.

Recognizing that someone who has recently recovered has equal protection would be a start, legally  ,and there is little excuse for not doing so as the antibody tests are available.

The duration is going to be a factor,but it obviously is a  factor in the vaccines as well.
Since i did recover from.a case of it , when we are on booster 7 and get a free pizza I'll be fully on board,as long as it's Chicago deep dish.

As far as vaccine effiacy in reducing mortality,I think it's certainly shown that,or the new variant is less lethal.
It was roughly 1 percent.

With a million new cases a day which hopefully drops, and total deaths dropping (instead of climbing)there is reasonable debate of several factors including natural immunity  ,vaccination ,better treatment protocol, and a less lethal variant.

One of the reasons south African health officials cited was the population that was more at risk had already passed during the initial.waves so they had already paid a terrible toll,but it did mean their numbers would drop with an overall  less vunerable population.

[BC]

AJ,

Prior infection is not a panacea considering the number of folks that have died from infection in the first place.  Neither are vaccines but they are proven to reduce hospitalizations and deaths. About the best you can do is if you survive a bout with COVID, get vaccinated anyway which has been studied and seems to be even better.  Chances are folks that are vaccinated and later get infected may have similar benefit.

Some vaccinated folks can get infected, and some of those with prior infection can get reinfected as well.

Among Kentucky residents infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020, vaccination status of those reinfected during May–June 2021 was compared with that of residents who were not reinfected. In this case-control study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated.

Source: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w

This study found that among Kentucky residents who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020, those who were unvaccinated against COVID-19 had significantly higher likelihood of reinfection during May and June 2021. This finding supports the CDC recommendation that all eligible persons be offered COVID-19 vaccination, regardless of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection status

[Jumper1]

The continuing issue is while one study says x, just as reputable studies say y.

And that is part of science.

The Israeli study was significant in volume, and showed vaccinated break thru cases including hospitilaztion was 95% greater than those with natural immunity from prior infection.

That's significant on every level.

It did show that those with prior infection and vaccinated had some improved immunity.

But if they were already 95% ahead of vaccinated, it seems to be splitting hairs.

Obviously I'm not saying to catch covid to gain immunity.

I'm saying studies show those that have do have significant immunity.

The study you quoted shows something different.


The Israeli study had over 60,000 participants.

The cdc cited study had 3000 or 4000.

Thats also significant

[Boethius]

But that's no different than any vaccine.

The MMR vaccine after one dose is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella.  After two doses, it is 97% effective against meales and rubella, 88% effective against mumps.  This shot is now given to babies.  Boosters are required when that baby is in his/her twenties.

I have never had measles or rubella shots, but I had both diseases as a baby.  When I was pregnant, I was tested for both (which is routine).  My doctor said I must have had them as a child, because my immunities were "off the charts".

So, naturally, those that develop COVID would have higher immunities.  That's the way a well functioning body works.

[Jumper1]

Sure,and that's why many people have had some issue regarding mandates all along.

Cali health laid off thousands of unvaxed Healthcare workers during a shortage.
Since many of them had natural immunity ,that's rather silly regardless good intents of the hospital groups administration.

The reluctance of health officials and media outlets to simply acknowledge what's obvious and natural is part of the backlash.

I certainly feel it would not be as high had more transparency (which it seems you may have had in Canada) and more common sense.

Have a mask on in the entrance of a cafe and taking it off 15 feet later, these type of things were like being kind of pregnant, silly, misguided and sure to bring public questioning of everything related.

[Boethius]

I disagree.  My daughter, for example, could not get a job in a hospital if she couldn't provide up to date vaccination records.  We needed to provide those records for each of our children when they registered for school.  That's the better comparison, I believe. 

[BC]

The continuing issue is while one study says x, just as reputable studies say y.

And that is part of science.

The Israeli study was significant in volume, and showed vaccinated break thru cases including hospitilaztion was 95% greater than those with natural immunity from prior infection.

That's significant on every level.

The Israeli study I believe you are referring to is http://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

This study did not consider the effects of boosters as it was prior.  There is another study showing results of Israeli boosters  http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114255

It did show that those with prior infection and vaccinated had some improved immunity.

But if they were already 95% ahead of vaccinated, it seems to be splitting hairs.

Small percentages applied to millions upon millions of people still adds up to very large numbers.

Obviously I'm not saying to catch covid to gain immunity.

Indeed, but it is the non-solution vaccine naysayers often propose.  "Everyone is going to get it anyway, and only a tiny percent die."  A million American lives is for me a huge number.

[GQBlues]

The continuing issue is while one study says x, just as reputable studies say y.

And that is part of science...

Everyone just needs to find their own comfort in this. The 'Kentucky study' was supported and sanctioned by the CDC. The agency that said Americans don't have anything to worry about with this virus. The same agency that bungled tests, the same agency who had us washing fruits and vegetables to make sure the virus is washed off, the same agency who recommended the vaccination/green passes, the same agency that promoted cutting t-shirts to fashion ourselves with mask. ETC. I could go on....So that should pretty much tell anyone looking into this exactly how much of what this agency ever tells you or sanctions is worth.

You have studies from Israel that counter this study. You have this study that counter that claim, then you have the studies Dr. Campbell illustrated in his video that covered studies conducted in California and New York. Then you have, then you have...yada, yada, yada...

Bottom line, whether this vaccine helps or not based on the numbers being tossed about, we likely will never know. It is usually reported in this manner, for example:

There are 51,157 active cases of COVID in my province today, a drop of over 4,000 from the previous day.  That is for people ill enough that they have gone to get tested by our Health Services, as we don't do tests for those with mild symptoms.  Testing of wastewater suggests we are past the peak.

Of those hospitalized, 2/3 have been hospitalized solely due to COVID.  The remaining 1/3 have been hospitalized for other things, but have COVID.  We are still seeing deaths.  Of those hospitalized, 99% are unvaccinated. 

So I ask, does any thinking people actually submit and digest information like this as gospel? I'm certainly not targeting Boethius, nor will I target fathertime (OK, maybe a little  ) for his displayed reaction - "Assuming the stat is accurate, counterarguments (hyphen please, hyphen) for those against vaccine will seem weak."

What was there to assume? I didn't realize there actually was an quantitative equation given for anyone to decipher any finite information to call it a data, much less a 'stat'.

After two years of this pandemic and witness how people still spray information in the manner and state it does today, speaks volumes about what our government, its agency/ies and the media at large, had done to the population's psyche and thought processing.

And to make this even more absurd, we have a fearless leader who aspired to cancel and censor opinions counter to their narrative.

[Jumper1]

I disagree.  My daughter, for example, could not get a job in a hospital if she couldn't provide up to date vaccination records.  We needed to provide those records for each of our children when they registered for school.  That's the better comparison, I believe.

Ok I get that.
That said I would counter these were current workers fired that had met requirements prior had already been treating covid patients.
I would add that seasonal influenza A and B vaccinations were not a requirement of employment, despite them caring for the elderly.
I would  say that not providing a provision they could show antibodies equal.to vaccination was a poor decision.

This was during a gearlhcare worker shortages, and while it was a private firm.and they can dictate new requirements fir employment, those requirements were not  always consistant across similar Healthcare systems nationally or within the state of California.

Luckily im.sure most of those workers had new jobs,in their field, within 86 seconds if they so desired.

So right or wrong ,that speaks volumes to the actual need for them.to be let go in the first place.

We can debate all day if a registered nurse with 20 years of experience should have been let go, over this, but there is zero doubt countless hospital.network's would be glad to hire him.or her the next day,and did so.

I also guarantee you many children in the USA attend school unvaccinated despite the requirements .
I'm not a fan of the exemptions ,but they exist and I know personally families who use those exemptions to avoid thos requirement.

So.those exemptions do exist,its not black and white as this subject continues to appear.

That in vaccines with long term.trials in place.
I am.absolutely certain this will become a fierce legal.battle if current mrna vaccines become a school requirement.

[Jumper1]

These are real repercussions from the virus, and potentially going to change your life.   Sorry to hear that, good luck and take it easy as you can.   

I've made the same statement as Meatloaf "If I die, I die". The virus doesn't seem to care about this sort of bravado though, it will decide who dies, who gets nasty aftereffects, and who is asymptomatic. 

Fathertime!

Thanks.
Anyway after a battery of tests my cardiologist told me I have arythmia but it's same ol same ol.i always had (which I suspected) and that it was misread by the immediate care.
That I was healthy as an ox and get out of his office and stop wasting his time (I love that old man)

So rubbing some dirt on it was the best medicine after all,lucky me.

[fathertime]

You could say this numbskull was at least smart enough to pull this stunt in a mostly white neighborhood school.  Had he tried this in a black/Latino area he would have suffered a massive beatdown from students and parents.  Personally, although mild mannered, I might have viciously attacked him had I seen him accosting one of my kids.  I'm not sure how the guy managed to pull this stunt off several times without parents doing something.     

‘Bunch of Idiots’: Grown Man Accused of Spitting on and Shoving Kids for Wearing Masks
A middle-age Southern California man is accused of lying in wait outside local schools for children wearing masks—and then following them around so he can cough at them, spit on them, and taunt them for being “stupid” enough to don the face coverings.

The man, captured on video wearing a “Your mask makes you look stupid” T-shirt, has allegedly been continuing his anti-mask harassment campaign for a month in suburban La Crescenta, with a string of alleged incidents under his belt. Fed-up parents finally had enough this week and gathered at the Crescenta Valley Station to demand police take action.....

http://www.yahoo.com/news/bunch-idiots-grown-man-accused-121124800.html   

Fathertime! 

[ML]

I think one counterargument here would be 'the death jab' kills you immediately, so no hospitalization is needed! 
Fathertime!

True, and I have been killed three times.
Same for my wife.
But we somehow are still together . . . maybe in Heaven ?

[Jumper1]

I'm sure you're both fine.

I know 2 people that have had it 3 times.
1 not vaccinated,the other vaccinated.
So no guarantees one way or the other for them,they are obviously more susceptible and have higher exposer.

[GQBlues]

You could say this numbskull was at least smart enough to pull this stunt in a mostly white neighborhood school. 

The guy is not any different than everyone else in this country that blindly swallow anything 'mandated' in this pandemic.

Mask mandate, green pass/vaccination mandate/travel mandate, etc...it's mindless and purely an unadulterated BS. Since this administration took over, millions had gone through the southern border, coming from countries that are poor enough to not be able to vaccinate any of them, are admitted and ferried unto every designated city or county the government felt they should be taken to. Unchecked, unvaccinated, untreated. Placed within you, me and the entire population.

Children vaccination mandate? What ever happened to those 'unaccompanied minors', held then released? Unvaccinated?

No one talked about this, because your media doesn't care to cover and oppose the silly narrative about just how 'dangerous' this virus is.

[GQBlues]

The numbnut left and mainstream media is absolutely going bonkers about a recent flop in trying to censor and cancel Joe Rogan. There’s an accusation Joe is spreading disinformation about the vaccine. Anyone who actually listened to Rogan’s podcast, in its entirety, would know that is not true.

Neil Young, the idiot he had become ( too bad as I like his music, too ) had his ego get the better of him and demanded Rogan’s removal from Spotify’s platform. It was Neil or Rogan, but not both!!! LMAO! In less than 20 hours, Spotify made its choice and removed his butt! He now loses 60% of his global streaming revenue. Idiot!

Our freaking nation had gone totally bonkers with all these censorship and cancel culture. It’s permeated through in almost all our daily life. Unbelievable!

[Faux Pas]

Whats surprising to me here is a quasi big tech company not acting in favor of the narrative and cancel culture. Hopefully others will follow suit. Neil Young has an over inflated view of himself like most on the left that their opinions and positions override all others. If it were possible for Young to take this position in the 70's Spotify would have certainly sided with him. As it is Rogan is hugely more  profitable and popular at this point in time than Young. It's refreshing to see a company take a stand on what's more important to them than to cow down to the cancel culture.

I love seeing the misinformation MSM heads explode over it.

[fathertime]

Our freaking nation had gone totally bonkers with all these censorship and cancel culture. It’s permeated through in almost all our daily life. Unbelievable!

I think it is over the top to cancel a person because of their view on the virus.  Blatent/provable disinformation should be countered though.  I haven't at all followed this particular spat.   

It seems the latest variant is now gaining a foothold and seems to be reinfecting people. 

New COVID variant has arrived in the US. What to know about 'stealth' version of omicron BA.2
Scientists and health officials around the world are keeping their eyes on a descendant of the omicron variant that has been found in at least 40 countries, including the United States.

This version of the coronavirus, which scientists call BA.2, is widely considered stealthier than the original version of omicron because particular genetic traits make it somewhat harder to detect. Some scientists worry it could also be more contagious.

But they say there's a lot they still don't know about it, including whether it evades vaccines better or causes more severe disease.

http://news.yahoo.com/covid-variant-arrived-us-know-151921235.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall   

Fathertime! 

[BC]

FT,

There are thousands of variants out there and thousands more to come.  It is great though that over the last couple of years we've been able to build up capabilities to detect and track them.  Shows there is still a lot to learn about this bug.  Hopefully the trend will lean towards more benign variants so the virus can be happy and we can as well.

[GQBlues]

Whats surprising to me here is a quasi big tech company not acting in favor of the narrative and cancel culture. Hopefully others will follow suit. Neil Young has an over inflated view of himself like most on the left that their opinions and positions override all others. If it were possible for Young to take this position in the 70's Spotify would have certainly sided with him. As it is Rogan is hugely more  profitable and popular at this point in time than Young. It's refreshing to see a company take a stand on what's more important to them than to cow down to the cancel culture.

I love seeing the misinformation MSM heads explode over it.

Unlike the rest of the knuckle-headed Big-Ts, Spotify is Swedish-based and persevered to keep its distance from the silicon valley gangbangers.

I had been streaming Spotify for free for a long time, because of this recent development, I subscribe for premium membership.

Bruddah, get the app and listen to Joe Rogan’s podcast # 1768.

[fathertime]

I'm not in agreement with this sentiment, for the most part.   There are a lot of people that haven't gotten vaccinated and they don't deserve to be locked out of hospitals.  Maybe they are misinformed and just can't help themselves.   Many aren't clear enough about the benefits/costs of a vaccination. 

Those that are completely outspoken about the vaccination and believe it is a worldwide partisan govt. plot to microchip or sterilize the population often the ones getting sickest.   They still should be treated like anybody else.

Kerr: If you reject the vaccine, reject the hospital bed too

apparently, folks who don’t want to get vaccinated against COVID feel they’re being persecuted for what they consider a personal choice. Their thinking, I guess, is if others are safe from the coronavirus after getting jabbed, why does everyone else have to do so as well?

.....But seems to me anti-vaxers don’t have any such reluctance to take up hospital beds when they suffer serious effects of COVID themselves, which seems kind of hypocritical. I mean, if you’re going to commit, then commit all the way.

Walk the walk, baby. Otherwise, you’re just making a half-assed stand – denouncing medicine that could save you if you get hit with this thing, but then embracing it when you wind up suffering the consequence of your own actions.

If you reject the jab, reject the hospital bed as well.....

http://www.yahoo.com/news/kerr-reject-vaccine-reject-hospital-040004460.html 

Fathertime!

[2tallbill]

Small percentages applied to millions upon millions of people still adds up to very large numbers.

Small percentages of liberty are lost with each application of leftist dogma.
Those small percentages over time still add up to a lot of lost liberty.

[2tallbill]

One in Three Americans Already Had COVID-19
http://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/one-three-americans-already-had-covid-19-end-2020

[fathertime]

Small percentages of liberty are lost with each application of leftist dogma.
Those small percentages over time still add up to a lot of lost liberty.

Always turning into a left/right issue is self-destructive.  I have a friend who is fiercely right wing.  He is hyper against vaccines, every time we get on the phone, he has to talk about it at length.  He has risk factors and is a candidate for death from the virus compared to others.   FOR HIM, the vaccine is a left/right issue.  I just think it is a ridiculous reason for not getting the vaccine.  There are way better reasons than political reasons.

Here is another seemingly regular person who caught the virus and died.  Also, very outspoken regarding mandates.  I actually agree with not mandating it, nevertheless this guy died from the virus.  Who knows if the vaccine would have prevented death, but it might have. 
Washington trooper who defied state vaccine mandate and told gov to 'kiss my a--' dies from COVID-19

A Washington State Patrol officer who defied a statewide vaccine mandate and signed off for the last time by telling Democratic Gov. Jay Inslee to "kiss my a--" is dead from COVID-19.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/washington-trooper-defied-state-vaccine-024500554.html

Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

It's astonishing to me how we can send billions of dollars for war games, but wouldn't instead spend the money to produce more vaccine and send them to poorer nations. This silly vaccine was publicly funded to begin with, yet now Pfizer, with numbnut liberal Bill Gates, would like to protect its intellectual property as if its production had become a 'commercial product'. What gives? Only nations that can fork out millions/billions should be and can be protected in this global pandemic?


Now Pfizer moved to protect its vaccine's $36 billion dollar recipe.

Meanwhile, Cuba, for all its troubles and economic challenges, dared to create and produce its own vaccine, which is now being touted with a 92.3% efficacy. As poor a nation as Cuba is, it started to export its vaccines to Iran, Nicaragua, Vietnam and Venezuela. It has also asked WHO to approve its vaccine so it can produce, and share its recipe to any country who are willing, and have the ability to produce its own. Unlike Pfizer's vaccine, Cuba's version doesn't even need the same storage challenges Pfizer's vaccine does.

http://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o230

It's unbelievably sad what the US had become!!

[GQBlues]

Fact about misinformation!


This was her press conference in November 2021 after resigning due to her suspension regarding her treatment of COVID patients. She was treating patients with monoclonal antibody.

[/c]


This is her press conference January 2022:





Biden administration suspended emergency use of monoclonal antibodies a week ago.