Vaccine Misinformation

[Jumper1]

It's become such a polarizing subject,yet the seasonal fly shot never was.
Yes influenza A and B may not have the mortality rate of covid19,but it still kills tens of thousands annually.

So legally, when will we see businesses shut down, mask and vaccine mandates, public shaming both directions, over the constant  changing influenza A and B?

If not, shoukd we hold our local,state and federal governments accountable fir not taking public health concerns seriously enough?

How many have to die for it to be relevant?

Isn't that what this fundamentally breaks down too?

60,000  annually andlife goes on as usual with none of the above.

300,000+ annually and its a different story, and yes I do understand it matters,but exactly where dies it matter?
109,000?
348,000?

I see a lot of  public posts  by folks convinced this pandemic has continued do to the unvaxxed. Or the unvaxxed should be eligible for treatment.
Many letters to the editor reprinted in main steam articles.
None mention that maybe the person living on fast food and chain smoking shouldn't get treatment.
Again it's where the linr is being drawn that's weird and disturbing.

Countries with very high vax rates (and high percent of prior immunity were seeing case loads exponentially higher, having very little to do with the populations vaccinated status.
Yet the media has perpetuated this mentality regardless.
Why can't journalists remain unbiased and report all sides.

This has shown when the *why* starts to really matter.

The division is continued stateside,regardless all.kimds if evidence pointing to this pandemic remaining fundamentally the same regardless any action or inaction.

There should be little reason to be so divided or polarized.

The last time I cared what baseball team someone liked was well,  never.
Same with thier choices to smoke or not,or eat fast food daily and be a couch potatoe,,or not,or be vaccinated or not.

I hope anyone ill gets high quality treatment.


If we start defining who gets treated by their life choices it is a very slippery slope.

[Boethius]

Nice summary.

In terms of early treatment it depends on what is available but a mix of monoclonal antibodies, Ivermectin, zinc, Vitamin C and Vitamin D. Vitamin C intravenously as there is a limit you can take orally (due to diarrhea). Countries such as Japan, Mexico and (parts of) India use Ivermectin for early treatment.

Asides from cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias, what throws off people understanding how dangerous these jabs are is because the batches of 'therapeutics' appears to be highly variable. They're simply not safe by any objective measure used before 2020.

The death rate over the past year for healthy people under the age of 60 has increased dramatically catching the eye of insurers and undertakers alike.

Unless you are very frail, very sick or very fat you probably have little to worry about (if you receive appropriate early treatment), though there are no guarantees in life. The worst thing possible is to end up in a hospital because hospitals are routinely killing people through malpractice.

I think death rates are higher because so many resources have been diverted to treating COVID patients.  I know for a fact that's the case in Canada.  Surgeries have been postponed.  Cancer treatments have been postponed.  ICU beds are full of COVID patients.  There are shortages of nurses.  So, people are not receiving timely treatment.  There is no grand conspiracy. 


Coincidentally, I just read an article on invermictin in Japan and India. 

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2022/01/26/fact-check-no-ivermectin-didnt-cure-covid-19-in-japan-and-india.html


It is untrue that only if you are very frail, very sick, or fat, that you will die of COVID. There are cases of people dying of COVID who were not frail, sick, or fat.  I first realized how serious this disease was when a Wuhan physician, aged 27 or so, reported it on social media.  He was arrested, but released.  He contracted COVID and died, very quickly.  He wasn't frail, sick, or fat.  I thought if someone so young can succumb to a disease so quickly it is extremely dangerous. 

My province opened up completely in the summer of 2020.  At that time, most young people were not vaccinated - they were eligible, but most believed things had returned to normal and didn't bother with the vaccine.  By October, our hospitals were overwhelmed with COVID admissions, mostly of otherwise healthy people under 50, many of whom required intubation.  Most did survive, thanks to excellent medical care.  But, yeah, tell them COVID isn't something to worry about.  We are just now learning of the after effects of COVID - memory fog, fatigue, lung damage, inflammation of organs and tissues.  That's just the effects that currently are known.  Whether they are permanent is to be seen. 

I've had the "death jab" - two shots of AstraZeneca, and one of Pfizer.  When a fourth booster is available, I'll take that, likely Moderna.  I have zero qualms about these vaccines.  Further, even if I have a bad side effect, I'd rather die quickly from a blood clot than in pain and gasping for air from COVID.

[Boethius]

It's become such a polarizing subject,yet the seasonal fly shot never was.
Yes influenza A and B may not have the mortality rate of covid19,but it still kills tens of thousands annually.

So legally, when will we see businesses shut down, mask and vaccine mandates, public shaming both directions, over the constant  changing influenza A and B?

If not, shoukd we hold our local,state and federal governments accountable fir not taking public health concerns seriously enough?

How many have to die for it to be relevant?

Isn't that what this fundamentally breaks down too?

60,000  annually andlife goes on as usual with none of the above.

300,000+ annually and its a different story, and yes I do understand it matters,but exactly where dies it matter?
109,000?
348,000?

I see a lot of  public posts  by folks convinced this pandemic has continued do to the unvaxxed. Or the unvaxxed should be eligible for treatment.
Many letters to the editor reprinted in main steam articles.
None mention that maybe the person living on fast food and chain smoking shouldn't get treatment.
Again it's where the linr is being drawn that's weird and disturbing.

Countries with very high vax rates (and high percent of prior immunity were seeing case loads exponentially higher, having very little to do with the populations vaccinated status.
Yet the media has perpetuated this mentality regardless.
Why can't journalists remain unbiased and report all sides.

This has shown when the *why* starts to really matter.

The division is continued stateside,regardless all.kimds if evidence pointing to this pandemic remaining fundamentally the same regardless any action or inaction.

There should be little reason to be so divided or polarized.

The last time I cared what baseball team someone liked was well,  never.
Same with thier choices to smoke or not,or eat fast food daily and be a couch potatoe,,or not,or be vaccinated or not.

I hope anyone ill gets high quality treatment.


If we start defining who gets treated by their life choices it is a very slippery slope.

The reason for the difference, I believe, is that most people who have the flu aren't hospitalized for weeks on end.  Sure, some flu victims end up in ICU, but most don't.  It's how COVID overwhelms the medical system that is the issue, not the disease itself.

You're not going to have to make the decision about the unvaccinated getting treatment.  At some point, your insurance companies are going to make that decision for them.

[Jumper1]

The reason for the difference, I believe, is that most people who have the flu aren't hospitalized for weeks on end.  Sure, some flu victims end up in ICU, but most don't.  It's how COVID overwhelms the medical system that is the issue, not the disease itself.

You're not going to have to make the decision about the unvaccinated getting treatment.  At some point, your insurance companies are going to make that decision for them.

Im.not making any decision regarding it one or or the other.

My point was the legal.interpretatuins of such.

Everyone's equal under the law or they are not.

I do recognize some hospitals got overloaded ,others were dang near vacant.

That is not the legal.point in choosing what is required to save ,or not save 60,000 lives annually from.influenza A and B.
This keeps getting shrugged off in the press and in our governments.

So older lives dont matter,and please be certain that every year hospitals do indeed see an increase in patients in the ICU in flu season,they dont all die at home or in general.rooms,and they do generally die from complications of pneumonia associated symptoms.
My mother worked for decades hosptials,and this including being short staffed during the annual.flu season was a constant annually.

Obviously if you increase those cases 1000 fold and increase severity  it adds up.to. more mortality and more case overload so.im.not downplaying it.

My point is generic  in that if some lives matter dont they all?
If we are having governments make legal
decisions regarding  public health and health care, and drawing the line in the sand at whatever  icu standard capacities are, is that remotely reasonable?
Maybe there should be an additional icu tax on reckless drunk drivers as well...

If we are allowing insurance companies to decide , then they would be in for a pile of legal.issues if they do not also change the nature of premiums based on a million other factors including sedentary lifestyle or food choices. I know they can add to.a premium fir smoking, again where is that legal.line drawn? Would it include covid and the flu shot?
What about the many many children not immunized by choice if thoer parents?
Or fed horrible diets by their parents thru put there youth.?

Again I'm merely pointing out the slippery slope we started down, both legally and mentally as a western world culture.

[Boethius]

Sure, but influenza deaths are between 500,000 and 600,000 annually worldwide.  COVID is over five million in two years. 


I believe if COVID's hosptalization rates were similar to those of the flu, we wouldn't have all these restrictions/mandatory measures.

[Jumper1]

Obviously, as we dint previously.

My question is why not?

And since we are getting legal.precedents at 5 million world wide cases, where is the line?

It's just arbitrary?

Where is the *well we have to do "something"libe?
Ultimately doesnt society perception  as a whole drive that?
And isnt that perception often driven by media,pr what the media chooses to concentrate on or not
Yes the argument could be made that world citizens drive what they report on by egat we want* to read,but to.pretend journalists habent turned long ago into sensationalism would be ignoring a big elephant in the room.

The net, have allowed as shift,and corporations like Google can  indeed unduly influence perceptions.
I'm not saying covid,im saying across a wide range of topics.
This has only made it more apparent.
It's disturbing that things are at a point where trust is in those type of corporations to be ethical in the power they wield.

[BC]

Obviously, as we dint previously.

My question is why not?

And since we are getting legal.precedents at 5 million world wide cases, where is the line?

It's just arbitrary?

Where is the *well we have to do "something"libe?

The line is when there is a high risk that essential services will degrade, affecting society as a whole.

[Jumper1]

Certainly,  so we* are trusting experts to estimate this unknown impact at least somewhat accurately while tip toeing around the legal ramifications of closing businesses etc..

All while many hospitals wernt over run and were turning away  scheduled operations and procedures that impacted health as well.

It's a crazy slippery slope

Is there any means of accountability of they are grossly wrong in a big picture, even I'd accurate in some regional locations?

The greater good of society always has such a nice civilized  ring to it, but people fear it for good reason as history has shown good reason to.

I'd remind folks that often flu season does overload and understaff local hospitals in some regions,particularly where there is a larger elderly demographic.

Let's at least shut those counties down during flu season,said no one ever.

I get why no one likes to make the comparison, but it is the same,only the scale is different.
So if we have z predicted milder flu season it's fine,if the estimate is z particularly severe one then measures need considered,? Or it just never occurred to anyone to mandate at least masks in flu seasons in elderly/retirement communities or subdivisions at a minimum??

It's only in Asia I suppose, interesting times.

I'm just asking general rhetoric questions as we're we headed , is now a tough place to back up from.

Diabetes, heart disease ,obesity,much of which is and was avoidable , its interesting how many millions have died from.them and what budget we as western nation's have spent in education or public awareness.

hey let's mandate a limit on pre processed foods   for the greater good, or helmet laws which is easily scientifically proven to reduce the majority of fatal traffic accidents.
But naw the public would rather let folks die than be forced to eat right or muss their hair.
It wouldn't be even remotely tolerated.
That  amazes me.

[GQBlues]

Video of ‘Trump Supporters’, LMAO!

Vaccinated, boostered Covid-protected Justin has, we’ll, Covid. LMAO! I’m certain he’s well taken care of likely getting treated with monoclonal antibody. The same stuff used for Trump, Boris Johnson, etc..you know the stuff Joe Biden suspended emergency use here in the US so folks will be without the most effective treatment against Covid.

Get well soon JT!

[GQBlues]

If the vaccine + boosters x10 is so darn effective, what and why are these bozos so scared shitless for? Come outside and breathe, enjoy the fresh air! You’re vaccinated and boostered. No need to hide under the bed.

Things that make you go hhmmm….LMAO!

[GQBlues]

Certainly,  so we* are trusting experts to estimate this unknown impact at least somewhat accurately while tip toeing around the legal ramifications of closing businesses etc..

All while many hospitals wernt over run and were turning away  scheduled operations and procedures that impacted health as well.

It's a crazy slippery slope

Is there any means of accountability of they are grossly wrong in a big picture, even I'd accurate in some regional locations?

The greater good of society always has such a nice civilized  ring to it, but people fear it for good reason as history has shown good reason to.

I'd remind folks that often flu season does overload and understaff local hospitals in some regions,particularly where there is a larger elderly demographic.

Let's at least shut those counties down during flu season,said no one ever.

I get why no one likes to make the comparison, but it is the same,only the scale is different.
So if we have z predicted milder flu season it's fine,if the estimate is z particularly severe one then measures need considered,? Or it just never occurred to anyone to mandate at least masks in flu seasons in elderly/retirement communities or subdivisions at a minimum??

It's only in Asia I suppose, interesting times.

I'm just asking general rhetoric questions as we're we headed , is now a tough place to back up from.

Diabetes, heart disease ,obesity,much of which is and was avoidable , its interesting how many millions have died from.them and what budget we as western nation's have spent in education or public awareness.

hey let's mandate a limit on pre processed foods   for the greater good, or helmet laws which is easily scientifically proven to reduce the majority of fatal traffic accidents.
But naw the public would rather let folks die than be forced to eat right or muss their hair.
It wouldn't be even remotely tolerated.
That  amazes me.

AJ-

I’m sure you know you’re chasing dragons, right? You can never make sense of  nonsensical matters. You’re dealing with the current state of minds of people who’ll double up wearing two (count that - 2) N95 masks because wearing only one still leaves them exposed to the 5%, LMAO!

Why is there interstate highway in Hawaii?

[Boethius]

Vaccinated, boostered Covid-protected Justin has, we’ll, Covid. LMAO! I’m certain he’s well taken care of likely getting treated with monoclonal antibody.

He's asymptomatic.  Likely the result of those vaccines.  He's been tested because of isolation rules.

If the vaccine + boosters x10 is so darn effective, what and why are these bozos so scared shitless for? Come outside and breathe, enjoy the fresh air! You’re vaccinated and boostered. No need to hide under the bed.

Even during the height of lockdown, when restaurants were pick up only, hair salons were closed, and large stores all had restrictions on numbers of shoppers allowed, people were going out on walks.  I saw neighbours I'd never seen before.  I think it is because all the gyms were closed.  Restaurants here supposedly are very busy now, I don't know, as I only go to restaurants for lunch meetings, and even that is rather sporadic.

[GQBlues]

He's asymptomatic.  Likely the result of those vaccines.  He's been tested because of isolation rules.

Even during the height of lockdown, when restaurants were pick up only, hair salons were closed, and large stores all had restrictions on numbers of shoppers allowed, people were going out on walks.  I saw neighbours I'd never seen before.  I think it is because all the gyms were closed.  Restaurants here supposedly are very busy now, I don't know, as I only go to restaurants for lunch meetings, and even that is rather sporadic.

Of course, and likely we'll never know, JT may have been positive for antibody even before he stooged himself for vax and boost.

If not, and his vax did in fact kept him out of ICU (unlike what happened in Ontario recently where in one hospital there were more vaxxed folks in ICU than non-vaxxed) only brings to reason how absurd all these mandates really are, especially for the health care workers and other first responder for losing their jobs for non-compliance/vax refusal. Fact is, vaxxed and boosted stooges are also super-spreader as previously suspected but censored as misinformation.

Even worse if one considers that recent irrefutable studies reinforcing the fact natural immunity are as good if not offer better protection from reinfection.

Anyway, happy JT sounds as though he'll be OK. I think he's the perfect leader for Canada. He, IMO, represents Canadians very well indeed.

[GQBlues]

CDC is asking the FDA for approval to vaccinate >6 month old children!!!

[Jumper1]

Our restaurants never closed.
In fact that's the irony here.
Our border states (ickynoise,and Michigan)had  more stringent lock downs.
So living in a city near the border that highly impacted us.

Every cafe, fast food and restaurant in this university town ( you can imagine its quite a few) had a line around the block to park the last two years. All day, all.open hours.
Mostly out of state plates.

It only  let up as those states relaxed their guidelines.
Boy that was sure effective looking at things regionally.🤣
 

[Jumper1]

CDC is asking the FDA for approval to vaccinate >6 month old children!!!

Im.waiting for pets

I mean they culled some millions of minks, when they found they not only tested positive for covid19,but had mutated variants that had transferred back to farm.workers.

I believe virologist know,and have known,  the significant differences in virus styles, some if which stay more fixed strain, versus constant change.

I feel.this was obvious with any covid style from.the start.

Since the view*  is this mutated in nature when are we vaccinating the origin species?  :

[GQBlues]

I actually erred in the post above. It isn't 'CDC' asking, but rather Pfizer/BioNtech that is. I don't care where anyone is on this issue, but all things considered, this just seem so sinister to vaccinate an infant.

[Jumper1]

AJ-

I’m sure you know you’re chasing dragons, right? You can never make sense of  nonsensical matters. You’re dealing with the current state of minds of people who’ll double up wearing two (count that - 2) N95 masks because wearing only one still leaves them exposed to the 5%, LMAO!

Why is there interstate highway in Hawaii?

Yes ,just venting lol

The state of mind is what I'm.refering to.
What  people can get wound tight about seems mostly whatever we are told to be wound tight about.

Traffic fatalities being reduced 80 to 90% is not one of them.
We will pass seat belt laws all.day,speed limits etc.
But the one safety item.proven beyond any reasonable doubt to reduce fatalities the most, and by a huge percent ,is only required in some states on motorcycles.
In your car its preposterous?
, right up.until.you race a car in a sanctioned event of any kind.
Then its completely expected and understood.
That mentality of convenience,not missing up.ones hair,  vs reality of saving untold amount of lives annually is just one of so many mentality examples, and why* do we have that mentality? In.many cases its
Acceptable risk vs convenience, just like not locking down for the flu season.

I hope that an elderly person brings litigation agaisnt  local county state and federal governments for negligence in the future over such disregard of public health concerns
It's the only way 

Your state will lead us ,!
Yay
I should move back there as
I cant wait until
Life* is mandated  safe

[Boethius]

Of course, and likely we'll never know, JT may have been positive for antibody even before he stooged himself for vax and boost.

If not, and his vax did in fact kept him out of ICU (unlike what happened in Ontario recently where in one hospital there were more vaxxed folks in ICU than non-vaxxed) only brings to reason how absurd all these mandates really are, especially for the health care workers and other first responder for losing their jobs for non-compliance/vax refusal. Fact is, vaxxed and boosted stooges are also super-spreader as previously suspected but censored as misinformation.

Trudeau is asymptomatic. 


Breakthrough cases occur because the vaccine wanes over time.  But they also occur because of new strains of COVID.  But compare Canada's rate of infection and death with the US.  There is no comparison, and that is because of vaccination rates and mandates.

Even worse if one considers that recent irrefutable studies reinforcing the fact natural immunity are as good if not offer better protection from reinfection.

That's the case with EVERY vaccine.  Perhaps we should just let children suffer the effects of whooping cough, measles, polio, etc.

Anyway, happy JT sounds as though he'll be OK. I think he's the perfect leader for Canada. He, IMO, represents Canadians very well indeed.

Hmm, I am not so certain of that.  But he looks like this -







and that counts for something.

[Jumper1]

There is a lot more factors to the mortality rate if covid19 in the USA versus various other countries than merely vax rates and mandates Beo.

While it certainly is part of the equation its certainly is defining at all.
One hundred studies of various countries with more or less vax rates/mostly rates show this being all over the place because of other factors .

Stating it is the* factor
Is political science,not science.

[Boethius]

Meh, I don't know.  I don't think it's rocket science to make a correlation between vaccination rates and infection.

[Jumper1]

Meh, I don't know.  I don't think it's rocket science to make a correlation between vaccination rates and infection.

Interesting.
So uk with a population of 62 million ,and a very high vaccination rate has more case load yesterday than a country with 360 million population and a much lower vaccination rate.

I think corralating random results is political science without context.
(Even when I'm doing it!like now!)

Many states in the USA have the same general protocols as Canada, other s don't.
Amazingly covid rates do not  seem to correlate at sll.to those guidelines and are far more relevant to age demographics and population centers public transport etc.



I absolutely agree vaccination rates are factor.Perhaps the largest factor

I also think a black and white statements regarding country comparisons by only that factor is silly in this context.

Plenty of countries have very low covid case rates , with very very low vax rates.

I certainly do NOT pretend it's because they are not vaccinated or that thier mandates or lack of them  has anything to do with the price of bat soup  in china . (Your are extrapolating the other direction so this is just an example)
It's because the rate of covid  testing is low.



To pretend the USA numbers are generally accurate * comparbly to.other countries is similar to looking at all the data and easily  saying the big comorbity for covid 19 mortality is being a usa citizen, period.

I mean our nationality alone by the numbers makes us more susceptible,per capita ,  to get covid than anywhere else in the planet except those highly vaccinated places like uk.

[GQBlues]

Trudeau is asymptomatic...

Because he has positive antibody or because of the vaccine? Does anyone know for certain? There are a lot of folks, even before the vaccine came out, that were positive but never even knew they had COVID before, too. 

Breakthrough cases occur because the vaccine wanes over time.  But they also occur because of new strains of COVID.

'Wanes over time' seem rather ambiguous. One day? two weeks? 3 months? A year? Are you able to give a specific time period, or are you just spraying what the media/agencies blurt out there for digestion?


Is there an automatic boosting in Canada for any specified time time going forward?

A new strain had been detected just recently, should someone who just received a booster for Omicron go right back and get another, any 'wait' period?

But compare Canada's rate of infection and death with the US.  There is no comparison, and that is because of vaccination rates and mandates.

There's that comparison jiggle again. How's Canada compared to Uganda, a nation close to Canada's population, <15+/-% vaccination rate, but only 3,500+ deaths? Do you know any correlative factors in all of these? With the amount of access to vaccine, very likely they aren't in the *boosting* shindigs yet either.

Or is there ever really a 'point' in these silly comparisons?

That's the case with EVERY vaccine.  Perhaps we should just let children suffer the effects of whooping cough, measles, polio, etc.

Really? Well, that's refreshing!! Then what they heck are the mandates for then? Do you know?

Hmm, I am not so certain of that.  But he looks like this -



and that counts for something.

That counts for a lot! Like I said, he's perfect for Canada! Not only in appearance, but the overall 'character'. Almost like the US, with the exception ours need more than a few naps each day.

[Boethius]

Interesting.
So uk with a population of 62 million ,and a very high vaccination rate has more case load yesterday than a country with 360 million population and a much lower vaccination rate.

I think corralating random results is political science without context.
(Even when I'm doing it!like now!)

Many states in the USA have the same general protocols as Canada, other s don't.
Amazingly covid rates do not  seem to correlate at sll.to those guidelines and are far more relevant to age demographics and population centers public transport etc.



I absolutely agree vaccination rates are factor.Perhaps the largest factor

I also think a black and white statements regarding country comparisons by only that factor is silly in this context.

Plenty of countries have very low covid case rates , with very very low vax rates.

I certainly do NOT pretend it's because they are not vaccinated or that thier mandates or lack of them  has anything to do with the price of bat soup  in china . (Your are extrapolating the other direction so this is just an example)
It's because the rate of covid  testing is low.



To pretend the USA numbers are generally accurate * comparbly to.other countries is similar to looking at all the data and easily  saying the big comorbity for covid 19 mortality is being a usa citizen, period.

I mean our nationality alone by the numbers makes us more susceptible,per capita ,  to get covid than anywhere else in the planet except those highly vaccinated places like uk.
 

I think it's the hesitancy to vaccinate that causes your high numbers. 

[GQBlues]

I think it's the hesitancy to vaccinate that causes your high numbers.

You *think*. Yes, but aren't really sure. Okay.


I ask again. Uganda's vaccination rate is almost 70% lower than Canada, yet have 10x less deaths. Why do you *think* that is?