Vaccine Misinformation

[Jumper1]

Polio,maybe we should ignore that first vaccine roll out for it that was a total disaster.
Let's also ignore the more recent disasters regarding new and improved vax programs for it in the third world.

Then let's pretend once vaccinated against polio, mumps, or measles you'll need boosted ever 6 to 12 months
seemingly  forever.

Or is that not how those vaccines*  work agaisnt those viruses?.

I mean it's not like polio doesn't mutate?
"The mutation rate of polioviruses based on several studies is approximately 3 × 10(-2) mutations/synonymous site/year in the gene encoding viral protein 1."

But meh.

Maybe im just jaded  because I truly just despise getting a shot personally, always have.

So I want everyone else to get fully vaccinated ,I'm actually  selfishly a  huge proponent of others getting vaccinated with you know a long term  working vaccine .
And I'll self isolate heh. I hate crowds anyway.

[Jumper1]

I think it's the hesitancy to vaccinate that causes your high numbers.

Maybe!.
But the elderly in america are by far and away generally vaxed , the most susceptible demographic to.mortality.

Anyway
So what caused uk, with higher vax rate  to have higher per capita  case load han the usa?

The argument for vax is strong in the uk,(from.lower mortality) but certainly not from.case load


What caused some unvaxed  third world countries
To be lower than Canada?
Could it be unequal.per capita testing?

I mentioned other factors, I never denied  vaccination being one of them.

 

[GQBlues]

Maybe!.
But the elderly in america are by far and away generally vaxed , the most susceptible demographic to.mortality.

Anyway
So what caused uk, with higher vax rate  to have higher per capita  case load han the usa?

The argument for vax is strong in the uk,(from.lower mortality) but certainly not from.case load


What caused some unvaxed  third world countries
To be lower than Canada?
Could it be unequal.per capita testing?

I mentioned other factors, I never denied  vaccination being one of them.

Not really. But I wanted her to explain this on her own cognition instead of, again, spraying *uninformed opinions* since we are on a *Vaccine Misinformation* topic.

[GQBlues]

Not really. But I wanted her to explain this on her own cognition instead of, again, spraying *uninformed opinions* since we are on a *Vaccine Misinformation* topic.

Waiting...

[Jumper1]

Well.. in my question regarding the usa vs uk stats yesterday,  I'll give it away.
It's because they changed reporting protocol to allow second infections to be shown,so they did not have a exponential increase that the data point shows,just a change in how covid cases are reported.

My point was its relevant to know all the factors, including those type of reporting styles or comparisons are silly  and political science.

Doesn't mean the other factors arnt real or relevant,  just that base stats of vaxed versus a countries  covid case  count csn mean nothing in comparisons.

[BC]

http://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-24/average-age-of-covid-19-victims-getting-younger

[GQBlues]

Well.. in my question regarding the usa vs uk stats yesterday,  I'll give it away.
It's because they changed reporting protocol to allow second infections to be shown,so they did not have a exponential increase that the data point shows,just a change in how covid cases are reported.

My point was its relevant to know all the factors, including those type of reporting styles or comparisons are silly  and political science.

Doesn't mean the other factors arnt real or relevant,  just that base stats of vaxed versus a countries  covid case  count csn mean nothing in comparisons.

Exactly. There's so many variables with COVID reporting, in addition to non-reporting variables and factors including but not limited to access to vaccine / treatments, medical facilities, that affect the overall makeshift of the number of fatalities with this pandemic. To simply cite 'a' single factor is being obtuse, if not downright ignorant. To say, think, suggest, guess - vaccination hesitancy to be the lone comparative value is just silly.

People who acts as though this is a freaking Olympic competition need to find some worthwhile hobby.

Uganda is literally a 'youthful' population, with almost 50% of its population to be at 0-14 years of age. approximately 2% being over 65 years old, age which correlate to how COVID deaths are mostly attributed.

Simpson's paradox.

It's very difficult, if not near impossible to compare any of these numbers from one another, for the simply reason that each reporting nations have mocked up their respective reports, intentionally or otherwise. In the US, they counted COVID deaths indiscriminately irregardless whether its 'because of' - or 'with' COVID. In addition, these deaths doesn't have absolute accounting of contributing, if not directly because of, 'x' comorbidities.

Lack of transparency, Information suppressions, censorship, and more importantly - capitalism (in the case of USA), etc... makes this matter (death count) to be taken with a grain of salt.

[GQBlues]

http://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-24/average-age-of-covid-19-victims-getting-younger

LA TIMES, LMAO! When was the last time you were in LA, BC? Or have you ever been? LMAO. LA Times! See what I mean by Googling?

[Boethius]

Maybe!.
But the elderly in america are by far and away generally vaxed , the most susceptible demographic to.mortality.

Anyway
So what caused uk, with higher vax rate  to have higher per capita  case load han the usa?

The argument for vax is strong in the uk,(from.lower mortality) but certainly not from.case load


What caused some unvaxed  third world countries
To be lower than Canada?
Could it be unequal.per capita testing?

I mentioned other factors, I never denied  vaccination being one of them.

As of today, the US has 28,858,226 active cases.  The UK has 3,787,443 active cases.  So, taking into account population differences, the US has a little less than double the cases of the UK.

The UK was hit hardest with COVID before a vaccine was developed.

Many third world countries don't test as much, but also, COVID hasn't affected some countiries as much.  That could be due to average age of the population.

[Boethius]

Because he has positive antibody or because of the vaccine? Does anyone know for certain? There are a lot of folks, even before the vaccine came out, that were positive but never even knew they had COVID before, too. 

His wife was infected very early, March 2020, after a trip to the UK.  He has not had COVID to date.  I've known a lot of people who had COVID before vaccinations.  They all knew they had it.  Some said it was like a very mild cold, others almost died. 

'Wanes over time' seem rather ambiguous. One day? two weeks? 3 months? A year? Are you able to give a specific time period, or are you just spraying what the media/agencies blurt out there for digestion?

According to medical experts, six months. 

Is there an automatic boosting in Canada for any specified time time going forward?

Six months.

A new strain had been detected just recently, should someone who just received a booster for Omicron go right back and get another, any 'wait' period?

Here, you get your second dose around 4 months after your first, and can get boosters every six months.  We have been told the vaccine doesn't prevent Omicron, but it does make symptoms milder. 

There's that comparison jiggle again. How's Canada compared to Uganda, a nation close to Canada's population, <15+/-% vaccination rate, but only 3,500+ deaths? Do you know any correlative factors in all of these? With the amount of access to vaccine, very likely they aren't in the *boosting* shindigs yet either.

I am certain a country with open air schools, where 75% of the population lives in rural villages and draw water from rivers keeps statistics comparable to those of Canadian governments.

That counts for a lot! Like I said, he's perfect for Canada! Not only in appearance, but the overall 'character'. Almost like the US, with the exception ours need more than a few naps each day.

Hmm, IIRC, a certain poster stated one cannot know another country via google searches.  You would learn, if you lived here for any period, that Canada is not monolithic.  There is the "golden triangle", the pandering to Quebec, the lefty coast, the always underemployed Maritimers, and the prairie populists.  They don't all pull in one direction, and most of the time, they have disparate interests.  The only things keeping this country together are universal healthcare and every region's disdain for Ottawa and the Laurentian elite.

[Boethius]

http://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-24/average-age-of-covid-19-victims-getting-younger

This correlates to my province.  We had the lowest vaccination rate in the country.  We opened up on July 1, 2020, with restrictions on gatherings.  Nursing homes and hospitals had very limited visitors or none.  But, all businesses reopened, and have remained open since.  The result of that early reopening was a surge of COVID cases by September/October, which overwhelmed our hospitals so much, patients were sent to other provinces for treatment.  That surge lasted for approximately 9 months.  We saw a respite when Omicron then hit.  Even then the numbers are much lower than in 2020, and after our "fourth" wave.


Here, it's not infection rates that are the issue.  It is how much those patient take in hospital resources.  That is the reason why Canadians don't object to being vaccinated. 

[GQBlues]

...
I am certain a country with open air schools, where 75% of the population lives in rural villages and draw water from rivers keeps statistics comparable to those of Canadian governments...

No. The point was, any comparison is both futile and nonsensical unless there is a total comparative  correlation as stated above.

Hmm, IIRC, a certain poster stated one cannot know another country via google searches.  You would learn, if you lived here for any period, that Canada is not monolithic.  There is the "golden triangle", the pandering to Quebec, the lefty coast, the always underemployed Maritimers, and the prairie populists.  They don't all pull in one direction, and most of the time, they have disparate interests.  The only things keeping this country together are universal healthcare and every region's disdain for Ottawa and the Laurentian elite.

Sarcasm was the order of the day.

[BC]

Doesn't mean the other factors arnt real or relevant,  just that base stats of vaxed versus a countries  covid case  count csn mean nothing in comparisons.

Jumper,

Indeed, due to differences in testing programs, the simple case count is not a good measure.  The best measure available is the number of deaths reported.  Most industrialized nations have long standing systems in place to keep a fairly accurate count of births and deaths.

One could also assume doctors can properly attribute and report the primary cause of death, but some here do not feel even that is accurate and that a large portion of reported covid deaths are simply folks that had covid and died of other reasons. Or that doctors cannot be trusted, or that government is manipulating data, or that their local/state newspapers are wrong.

Remember in school, math teachers used to teach us how to double check our addition and subtraction? If my addition was wrong, I could verify using subtraction and vice versa.

We do have a double check that clearly shows covid deaths are real.  We can confirm this by looking at excess mortality statistics showing deaths from all causes.


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

The little spike you see on the left hand side is likely due to an abnormally high flu season in 2018.

If covid deaths weren't 'real', the excess deaths at the right side would not be present, nor would they clearly represent the waves of covid infections.

Some here go to even greater extents to try and disprove the lethality of covid by using data from countries such as Uganda to try and point out that if underdeveloped countries are doing so much better with very little, or even without vaccines that vaccines are obviously deficient and don't work.

They use maps such as the one below as proof that we are all being 'lied to' by our governments.  After all Uganda has vaccinated very few people and practically no one is dying there from covid.  It's just because we're old and fat they say...



At first glance, their argument seems plausible, but fails on deeper inspection.

Compare the map above with this the one below. Look somewhat familiar?



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-55674139

All but two countries in Europe - Albania and Monaco - have a universal death registration system, and in Asia, just over half, analysis of UN data shows.

But in Africa it is only Egypt, South Africa, Tunisia, Algeria, Cape Verde, Săo Tomé and Príncipe, Seychelles and Mauritius that have what are called functioning, compulsory and universal civil registration systems - known as CRVS systems - which record deaths.

All of the countries surveyed by the BBC, working with researchers from the UN's Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA), do have some sort of death registration.

But it is often on paper and not available in a shareable digitised form. The information may be used in a local area but cannot calculate mortality trends on a national level.

But for most countries on the continent there is no way to reach any conclusions like this as the data is so sparse.

In 14 countries a maximum of only one in 10 deaths are recorded, including in Nigeria, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Cameroon.

Over half of the countries in sub-Saharan Africa only keep handwritten death records.

Certain states, such as Eritrea and Burundi, have no legal requirement to register or collate deaths at all.

If someone wants to convince themselves that vaccines don't work, it's easy to do.  Too easy. In the end though, their buckets of knowledge are full of holes and do not hold water.  This is exactly why so often their only recourse is to propose unprovable fallacies, blatant falsehoods and innumerable conspiracy theories.  If that doesn't work, the final resort is to simply ridicule facts and sources.

[GQBlues]

Pretty obvious who amongst us who are the children of CNN/MSNBC (where’s Rachel Maddow these days?) and Google, eh? When one drowns themselves in the Steele Dossier / Russia Collusion mythologies for years. Sense and though-processing is quickly abandoned.

Are COVID-19 death count uniform and ‘comparably absolute’ between countries? NO.
Why? Because each nations report their COVID-19 differently.

Are COVID-19 reported death counts perfect science. NO.
Why? Because reported death certificates is an imperfect science. In the US, each state, local municipalities, health agencies make their own evaluation to the cause of death. Death certificates have up to 4 levels that directly caused, contributed to, the person’s death. Referred to as ‘immediate’ and ‘underlying’.
 
In summary, in the US’s COVID-19 death count, all deaths because of, and with, with very few extreme circumstances, COVID-19 is all lumped in as COVID-19 death. This is NOT the case with all countries. 
 
Can I prove this? Yes of course! I’m the Batman! I’m cute and sexy, too.
 
Listen to Dr. Deborah Birx, during the White House Task Force Briefing (at the 1:38 mark on the video)

So, I think in this country we've taken a very liberal approach to mortality. And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks. Prior to that when there wasn't testing in January and February that's a very different situation and unknown.

There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death.

Right now we are still recording it and we will I mean the great thing about having forms that come in and a form that has the ability to market as COVID-19 infection the intent is right now that those if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.

Now, CNNers/Googlers will likely pushback and contend, “Bah hubris (lol)! I can Google anything to prove this is not true. Matter of fact, CNN will soon confirm this! When they do, I’ll post colorful graphs to support this and if I can’t dazzle the folks with my brilliance, I will certainly baffle them with, well, blame it on CNN!”

Of course Dr. Birx have more than good reason to say what she stated. I need not wonder if she’s either telling the truth, or simply innocently ignorant of the ways of the world! Who knows, right? Heck, she could be an impassioned Googler, too as we can see on this board.

How will we ever know the truth Mr. cute & sexy Batman? Easy Grasshopper.

Exhibit ‘A’

Our findings reveal differences between countries in terms of legislative provision, recording deaths, and reporting deaths. These differences have an impact on the comparability of data on deaths associated with COVID-19 across countries.

In all countries there have been concerns about the number of deaths in care homes. In England and Germany, around a third of all deaths associated with COVID-19 have been in care homes and the proportion is even greater in France and Portugal.
 
Moreover, deaths at home associated with COVID-19 are not included in the reporting systems of all countries (e.g. France). In France, Italy and the UK concerns about under-reporting of COVID-19 deaths have been expressed, whilst in Germany concerns relate to over-reporting. In the former, the numbers reported are likely to be an under-estimate due to the limited availability of testing facilities3 especially, but not only, early on in the pandemic.

In a recent report on mortality in long term care facilities in Italy, the ISS found that more than 9000 people died in long term care facilities during the epidemic period in Italy (ISS, 2020). Furthermore, during the epidemic wave the majority of the residents in nursing homes died without a COVID-19 diagnosis.

For example, in the nursing homes of Lombardy only 7.4% of the deceased during the epidemic period tested positive to COVID-19 (ISS, 2020). Among the reasons indicated for the peak in mortality in these facilities, health operators included the difficulty in both hospitalising the critical cases (hospitals were operating at full capacity) and isolating the suspected positives from the other residents. On the other hand, the limited availability of testing equipment within the facilities is the main reason for the peak in under-reporting of COVID-19 related deaths within long term care facilities.

Batman could go on, but why bother. It’s obvious fact and reality are absent in some of us, could well simply be just plain ignorance, but methinks for some, it’s largely due to deep saturation to CNN feed and Googling time. Such was the case with RussiaGate.
 
Comparing COVID-19 deaths between nations as an absolute to zero as though it had any significant comparative relevance – is simply being I-D-I-O-T-I-C.
 
Tada….

[Jumper1]

Beo-BC,
Regarding uk case loads.
My point was they showed far more  daily cases than the USA that day.
Not because they had more cases,because they changed what they were reporting.
Jan 31 they reported far more cases than the USA.  It means nothing.
The point was not that they had more cases, it was  the comparison isn't relevent as reporting changed and is often different country to country.


Again being a u.s. Citizen is the big comorbidity of covid19 if only going off covid mortality rates.
As a nation of immigrants that defies genetic science a bit.
Granted there are other important factors (which was always my point )
We are a nation with more testing, with an aging demographic in population,with higher heart disease,obesity and diabetes as well.

  Oddly despite the view we are generally unvaccinated, our most susceptible population demographic,the elderly, is highly vaccinated.

As far as total mortality rates increasing, yeap,never questioned that.Never said covid19 wasn't serious.

It is easily shown in countries with high vax rates hosptilaztions are down,mortality is down.
It is also well known comorbidities and age are huge factors.

As far as the u.s. our most susceptible age groups are highly vaxed. Other countries are dropping mandates ,our own government seems to have been backed up on mandates.

As fast as the new variants are spreading the bulk of the population either has had covid, has covid now, or is vaccinated.

So not sure where it's  all going but 5 jabs 12 jabs 17 jabs doesn't seem the answer.

If someone chooses to stop at one, 2 versus 5 or 10  I personally not seeing a distinction.
Others might.

[GQBlues]

...
Not because they had more cases,because they changed what they were reporting.
Jan 31 they reported far more cases than the USA.  It means nothing.
The point was not that they had more cases, it was  the comparison isn't relevent as reporting changed and is often different country to country....

Exactamundo! The man just won free Tacos!!!!


For example, from our wonderful neighbors to the north..Covid-19 Death Toll Could Be Thousands Higher Than Official Count


I still like JT. The perfect leader for all Canadians!! May he rule forever!!!

[BC]

Of course very limited testing and imperfect administrative reporting procedures were lacking through much of 2020.  This applies to all countries including the US. For a significant amount of time, testing facilities were not adequate for the living, much less those that died outside the hospital environment. The overall theme in 2020 leans toward underreporting.  Excess mortality data does confirm the trends and especially since vaccinations began, good quantitative assessments are the norm.


From Exhibit "A"

It is noteworthy that over time, policies have evolved. Indeed, we would argue that there has been
convergence between those countries that were less well prepared at the outset – in particular,
France, Italy and the UK – towards those that were better prepared, namely Austria and Germany.
In particular, testing, fundamental to accurate recording was not readily available initially in France,
Italy and the UK at the outset, but this increased over the course of the pandemic (see Annex 1,
Table A2). Reporting of deaths has become more complete and more reliable over time in those
countries that were less well prepared; this is most apparent as regards deaths in the community
and particularly in social care institutions in France and the UK.

[GQBlues]

Well, FWIW, it isn't just isolated in the 'unavailability of testing' in the onset. It also included, but not limited to 'home / care facilities unreported deaths', 'classification of cause of death' (as described by Dr. Birx), etc...


Death counts are/were mocked up and 'absolute to zero' accounting is, at worst, unreliable; at best an estimate.

[Jumper1]

I know in  2020, my step father, his 3 sisters went to one of the many available drive thru test places
 They waited in line, filled put the paperwork,  then waited again for 45 minutes to the point the decided to just go home(none were sick ,and my mother a former hosptial worker  had told them it was silly to go test)
They never got swabbed or tested in any way.

A bit later they were all contacted they were covid19 positive.
So at least in illinios there was some shakiness in test reporting.

Around that time i was very sick and went to get checked out .(indiana)
They tested me for covidand said nope,negative but you do certainly have influenza B.
Empirical evidence between strict lockdown  state and no lock down state lol
 

[Boethius]

Beo-BC,
Regarding uk case loads.
My point was they showed far more  daily cases than the USA that day.
Not because they had more cases,because they changed what they were reporting.
Jan 31 they reported far more cases than the USA.  It means nothing.
The point was not that they had more cases, it was  the comparison isn't relevent as reporting changed and is often different country to country.

On January 31, the US reported 29,098,106 active cases of COVID.  The UK reported 3,075,068 active cases.  The UK reported 4,307,833 active cases on January 11, and 2,910,573 active cases on December 30.  The numbers seem fairly consistent to me.

[Faux Pas]

I know in  2020, my step father, his 3 sisters went to one of the many available drive thru test places
 They waited in line, filled put the paperwork,  then waited again for 45 minutes to the point the decided to just go home(none were sick ,and my mother a former hosptial worker  had told them it was silly to go test)
They never got swabbed or tested in any way.

A bit later they were all contacted they were covid19 positive.
So at least in illinios there was some shakiness in test reporting.

Around that time i was very sick and went to get checked out .(indiana)
They tested me for covidand said nope,negative but you do certainly have influenza B.
Empirical evidence between strict lockdown  state and no lock down state lol

It was then and still is as shady as it could possibly be. For all the duration of 2020 and most of 2021 they were using PCR tests with at best a 60% false positive rate and at worse a 90% false positive rate. The inventor of the PCR stated many times (prior to his death) that there is no way a PCR can be relied upon to detect corona virus yet, Fauci science dictated it be used. The newer test devised since offer not much better. They send folks to the doctor and hospitals based on the results of these tests. It's insane and what's worse based on those test people get Covid-19 treatment protocols in hospitals which is certainly going to thin out the herd. Remdesiver and ventilators is murder and they are killing people.

NONE of the recorded information on positives, infections, sickness or death can be relied upon from anywhere. If it wasn't convoluted enough, it's been doctored to fit whatever narrative the Big Pharma science wishes to dictate. As for the death jabs, in the last 12 months cancer has increase 300%, miscarriages 300% and neurological disorders is up over 1000%. This is all since the death soup. I am really afraid many more is on the way. It's geneocide

[Boethius]

Do you have any links for those statistics?


A quick google search seems to refute at least one of your assertions, and I've read this before about miscarriages.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/09/covid-19-vaccines-dont-raise-miscarriage-risk-3-studies-show

[Faux Pas]

I assume that to mean you couldn't find it on Google, imagine that?

http://www.naturalnews.com/2022-02-01-miscarriages-cancer-neurological-problems-skyrocketing-covid-vaccines.html

[Boethius]

There is nothing in the article on that headline that even discusses this "increase".

[fathertime]

NONE of the recorded information on positives, infections, sickness or death can be relied upon from anywhere. If it wasn't convoluted enough, it's been doctored to fit whatever narrative the Big Pharma science wishes to dictate. As for the death jabs, in the last 12 months cancer has increase 300%, miscarriages 300% and neurological disorders is up over 1000%. This is all since the death soup. I am really afraid many more is on the way. It's geneocide

There is nothing in the article on that headline that even discusses this "increase".

l
Outrageous claim debunked as usual.   'Death soup' and 'genocide'...I'm waiting for the pied piper to make another appearance! 

Fathertime!