Vaccine Misinformation

[GQBlues]

Does the article give a link to the study?  Can't read the full article due to paywall so would be great if you can post the link to the study itself.

I was hoping others, like myself, were on their 'grace period' prior to capitalism line. I went back and it has me on the pay zone as well.

[Jumper1]

At the beginning of the pandemic under trump, you fell for the lock downs yourself.  My silly ass paraded myself to work each and every day...mask free.   There were always leaks in the complete lock down of LA (Aside from essential workers) but the roads were close to empty that first week.  Despite this, I had a little group of people always stepping through my near lone open shop on the street. 

Fathertime!

Many states including mine did not have such a lockdown, our border states had strict lock downs.
From.early on it was quote clear covid had little regard for either ,which considering its style of transmission certainly shouldn't have shocked anyone, and certainly not public health officials.
(We had lower rates that the 3  border states with lockdowns and more stringent guidelines)
Guess which counties we had with highest rates (even though still lower than the other states)
The ones  with commuter rail to major cities in the border states.
You could literally watch the daily progress by bus and rail stop.
This wasn't hard to figure out and any health official.would know.
 So the essiential.* worker  commuter rail line brought us the most cases by far.
Counties outside the rail sysyem.had significantly lower cases by margins of ten or 50 fold.
Pretty common sense stuff.
If you care to go back and watch old case mapping.
You can see the exact same effect in PA from.philly out into rural PA.
Directly in.the towns along commuter bus or rail lines.
This isn't looking back with 20/20 vision ,it was obvious in real time and certainly made sense.
 we had a deadly pandemic and making shut lockdowns etc, why the heck was this key issue not addressed?
It's not like traffic was an issue.

The handling of this as *it never happened before*  so that is our excuse for bungling it is odd.
I preiously worked for a water utility for many years in the lab and as a county superintendent (chicago)
,I worked closely with fema as well.
We had protocols,exercises, etc often on exactly this type of scenario, water born.
I know they had protocols for airborne as it goes hand in hand at times.
These exercises included what to do with hundreds of thousands of dead ,in the county, in a 2 week period,as that's something that is certainly possible with several not uncommon water bourne pathogens or agents that could be introduced(far too easily)
This is a matter of when, not if,and there are a lot of people trained to handle it.

There is zero excuse for the ineptitude shown in this * one off event by local city county and state governments,  yes includes the federal gov, although the state and counties have much more to do with this type of public heath  scenario.

This has reeked from day one, the excuses are lame, the handling or rather zero handling of pre treatment protocol for 2 years is unbelievable.
Not one diesease do we tell patients to wait until they are ill enough to be admitted to the er to get treatment.

There is nothing unique about a respiratory virus or Sars to excuse this type of non response for 30 days ,much less two years.

It might sound like sour grapes to look back and say ,*well.they shoulda*

But I know from.experience that protocols for much more deadly pathogens are in place, are studied,over,, and, over, and, and with real world exercises, participated, staff trained etc..

This is part of what drives my distrust for most everything related.
Most countries have similar agencies at local ,regional and national.levels to face this exact scenario in far worse case scenarios.
The firm I worked for previously is the largest water utility in the world,based in France . I've been to headquarters there for exactly zthis type of training exercise with other city managers regarding water born outbreaks.

Yet we watched most of the countries of the world struggle to get even basic plans in place beyond-
wear a mask,stay home,save lives.

🤷‍♂️


It's ludicrous and remains so.

[BC]

I was hoping others, like myself, were on their 'grace period' prior to capitalism line. I went back and it has me on the pay zone as well.

GQ,

I was able to find this comparable article from 2020. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8605885/Lockdown-killed-two-people-three-died-coronavirus.html that states basically the same thing.

It is thought that as many as 16,000 people died because they didn't get medical care between March 23 and May 1.

In the same period, 25,000 Britons died of the virus.

I do agree that many may have died during the lockdown due to hesitance of going to the emergency rooms.  Maybe even one of our members Sandro. Although just guessing, it may well be that he experienced a heart attack and decided to try and wait it out. 

The main purposes of lockdowns was to try and contain the spread, in order to reduce the load on already overloaded hospital systems.

I suspect most countries and states experienced somewhat similar incidence, although determining a more exact number is still guesswork.

Hopefully, governments will begin to build in reserve healthcare capacity instead of cost cutting measures.  In the end, no matter what calamity hits us, when healthcare systems reach their capacity there will be unavoidable, negative side effects. 

Bottom line, if hospital capacity, doctors, nurses and ambulance services are exhausted, for whatever reason, additional casualties will result.  The big question will continue to be if we can put what we learned from early crisis days into real, and balanced solutions.

All considered, lockdowns or not, I doubt it would have changed anything, and could have even been worse.

[GQBlues]

At the beginning of the pandemic under trump, you fell for the lock downs yourself.  My silly ass paraded myself to work each and every day...mask free.   There were always leaks in the complete lock down of LA (Aside from essential workers) but the roads were close to empty that first week.  Despite this, I had a little group of people always stepping through my near lone open shop on the street. 

Fathertime!

You had me curious. Since my profession was classified as ‘essential’, it had no economic effect on me. I would have been indifferent. My wife, as a CPA, was furloughed. So I had doubts I ‘would have fallen for’ the lockdown. Now I may have humored about the amount of traffic disappearing as a welcomed benefit, but that would be expressed more as an irony if not a jest.

So the cat in me got curious. As there had been multiple threads regarding this singular subject, it took a while but I did find my position about the lockdown back in April 2020. Here it is…

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24283.msg533613#msg533613

Interesting too that there were two instances there that I gave a comparative sampling in trying to illustrate a point in the severity of this pandemic. We currently have a shade over 900k dead from Covid related deaths after 2 years. 450k/year. Less compared to smoking related deaths, less than annual cardiovascular related deaths.

Pretty fun seeing the polarity in opinions then too on who were for lockdowns and who were convinced it was a very bad idea.

LMAO, I like BillyB, but his fuzzy calculations then had us dying in the billions 

[GQBlues]

BC-

From what I’ve read in many articles and studies, it isn’t only medical hesitancy that caused casualty. Suicides from depression, domestics and child abuse, drug and alcohol addiction and overdoses, rising crime due to instability, etc. The lockdown caused far more than just economic shutdown. It had undoubtedly caused a great deal more in all our psyche for generations. Already cancel culture and censorship had mostly consumed the fibers in the US’s society.

[BC]

GQ,

Yes, of course lockdowns affected us all in different ways, some negative, some maybe even positive.  Hopefully, some time in the future we'll be able to read better and more reliable quantitative assessments of these effects. I hope you read the previous study I posted, as it clearly shows the complexity involved when trying to reach sound conclusions. Some interesting info on suicides as well in the study.

[fathertime]

BC-

From what I’ve read in many articles and studies, it isn’t only medical hesitancy that caused casualty. Suicides from depression, domestics and child abuse, drug and alcohol addiction and overdoses, rising crime due to instability, etc. The lockdown caused far more than just economic shutdown. It had undoubtedly caused a great deal more in all our psyche for generations. Already cancel culture and censorship had mostly consumed the fibers in the US’s society.

When the latest restrictions in California end Feb 15, it will be welcomed.  My buddy's child got the virus and he states he is a 'long hauler' with new, perhaps permanent health conditions.  So, it seems society will continue to pay costs for the years to come.  Others have been affected in the ways you stated above.   A few have thrived.
Personally, I'd like to visit old pops unimpeded by restrictions, as he has survived at 101 years old....perhaps in part to the strict guidelines/restrictions. 

Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

LMAO, I like BillyB, but his fuzzy calculations then had us dying in the billions 

Good old BillyB's calculations had each of us dying twice.   

Fathertime! 

[Jumper1]

So our border state Illinois, with mask.mandates all thru this ,dropped them this week, when the covid case rate is higher than anytime over the last two years (other than the recent dec jan spike)
So it's still higher than the prior  entire two year average.

So over 2 years of mandating their use as effective and needed to insure public health, right up until we have higher case loads,  but well, people are *tired of saving lives.

Hosptialized case loads there ,in the areas were it was a concern prior, are similar to the entire mandate time average, and they are more understaffed than prior so no ,that's not the driving factor even though that's alluded to as the reason.

Glad those lockdowns were 1% effective too!

I mean the Israel study showing the effects of proper vitamin D levels is zero surprise, and wouldnt have been equally  or far more effective of pushed /provided by our health officials with all those billions in fed covid money floating about?
Naw.


 And you gotta love the immigrant family in chicago boasting with pics of new rolls,and lambos of the millions they made covid testing * with a pile of the samples just tossed...or still sitting in storage units hahaha
Brilliant to know there would be no oversight and just take the dough rae me!  If they could have stayed off social.media  they might not be investigated over a couple hundred million...
In the end though it seems covid was very very good to them.





 

[BC]

Interesting too that there were two instances there that I gave a comparative sampling in trying to illustrate a point in the severity of this pandemic. We currently have a shade over 900k dead from Covid related deaths after 2 years. 450k/year. Less compared to smoking related deaths, less than annual cardiovascular related deaths.

Pretty fun seeing the polarity in opinions then too on who were for lockdowns and who were convinced it was a very bad idea.

Remember, those figures reflect what was achieved.  Would they be lower without all the measures taken and vaccines?  Certainly not.  IMO they would be double, maybe more.

[fathertime]

So our border state Illinois, with mask.mandates all thru this ,dropped them this week, when the covid case rate is higher than anytime over the last two years (other than the recent dec jan spike)
So it's still higher than the prior  entire two year average.

So over 2 years of mandating their use as effective and needed to insure public health, right up until we have higher case loads,  but well, people are *tired of saving lives.

 

I think I wore a mask a couple times here at the shop towards the beginning....and rather half-heartedly, 
One thing I do is try to keep a distance between me and people.  The problem is, I get a certain percentage of idiots that like to be right up talking in my face....less than 1 foot away.  It's just so stupid, first off often their breath often smells like hell to begin with, plus I don't want to get the virus because some idiot doesn't know how to give people normal personal space. 

Personally I'm not tired of 'saving lives' but we all got to live, and the 'boomer removal program' is nearing completion!  Unless the virus mutates into a much deadlier form, I think the masks/lockdowns are going to be ending for good.  The people seem to be done. 

Fathertime! 

[Jumper1]

That's my point,  the people are done.
Zero to do with saving lives or case rates of infection/hospitalizations..

To me it's
Irony ²

Where are the calls for saving our children?they have been masked for 2 years in school here, yet we will drop it when infection rates are higher?
Their risks remains fairly low but fairly consistent omicron or not.
So the expected reversals out   of just being fed up with it ,I'm pretty sure was being pointed out as the most likely outcome all along.

[GQBlues]

Remember, those figures reflect what was achieved.  Would they be lower without all the measures taken and vaccines?  Certainly not.  IMO they would be double, maybe more.

BC-

Actually, a resounding no. Those numbers were recorded yearly cases prior to SC-2. Heart diseases were killing approx. 650k/yr, and smoking-related deaths @ 480,000.

http://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm

Those were the links I provided in our discussions 2 years ago. Compare those annual death rates to COVID-related deaths per year since 2020, which is about 450,000 of mostly the aged and the infirmed, illustrate this was sensationalized if one considers the totality of the reaction to this virus. Not least of which the stupid lockdown, frenzy over censorship, crazy mandates, etc.


Of those who perished during 'this pandemic', whether COVID was the 'immediate, underlying or contributory' cause of death, the two most causes were cardiovascular and pulmonary failures. In essence, these folks were, for all intent and purposes, already on 'borrowed time'. It was just a matter of time. Let's face it, crass that may be, it is what it is. 

It wasn’t the virus that was the evil that pervade these past two years. It was the politics behind it.

[2tallbill]

Here you have two camps, one working the solution and the other remaining in the problem.

I mean this seriously, surely you don't think the left is in the solutions camp?


When Trump was working on a vaccine. The left cried that it would be years if not decades away
from reality. When Trump suggested different medicines to people after they caught covid, he
was selling fishoil and death.

The left has been silencing anyone who doesn't exactly parrot their words and group think, even
if their words are proven to be wrong.

[GQBlues]

Oh wow! I hope things work out well with our neighbors up north.

I hope this serious pushback on their PM dissipate asap. I really believe he is the perfect leader for all of Canada. I pray he rules for life!!!

"...No one knows where public health ends, and politics begin..."


Terrible really!

Playing politics with the vaccine mandate? In Canada, too? That appears so hauntingly familiar....


I shall light a candle for Trudeau myself. Stand strong, baby. You are Canada's Obama.

[Jumper1]

Just the smoking gun...



http://uk.news.yahoo.com/early-lab-grown-covid-virus-143616129.html

[GQBlues]

Just the smoking gun...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/early-lab-grown-covid-virus-143616129.html

Be prepared to be censored and ultimately cancelled, AJ. Hahah!

[Jumper1]

Be prepared to be censored and ultimately cancelled, AJ. Hahah!

Hahaha


Pretty sure this will be danced around by the media for awhile ,with snippets of *possibilities * dropped now and then,until.the general population gets more slowly acclimated to the idea ,and drawn out long enough before confirming that *what's it matter now?* will prevail.

Just a guess.

Pretty ironic a soil sample from antartica, oddly ,cross contaminated in a Chinese lab with a lab maniputlared covid virus ,with lab test animal DNA , all proir to covid19 pandamic,, got ultimately tested (as a soil sample)by an afflated lab in Hungary ,and um now* that info comes out. Oops. 😅

It's those long strings of coincidence that just keep coming ,and coming and...

[Muzh]

Here are the contents of the Pfizer vaccine.  Please tell me what is not either occurring in the body (such as lipids, which is what the first ingredient is, together with a code to produce an immune response), or is not consumed by humans in foods-

ALC-03415=((4-hydroxybutyl)azandediyl)bis(hexande-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate)
ALB-0159=2-[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide1,2=Disteroyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine cholesterol
dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate
monobasic potassium phosphate
potassium chloride
sodium chloride
sucrose
water for injection

You know what arguably was a poison - not existing in the human body until injected in a vaccine?  The polio vaccine.  But that vaccine changed history for the better.

Boe, don't you know that one hour internet search is more efficacious than a lifetime researching at a lab?

[ML]

Muzh, I guess the reports of your death were exaggerated !!

[Jumper1]

Boe, don't you know that one hour internet search is more efficacious than a lifetime researching at a lab?

Welcome back!!

That said the entire premise that something is safe* to.inject into a human body ,simply on the basis the human body already contains that substance, is silly.

The list of things naturally in a human, that if injected with more , or in random combinations if such ,that could be harmful.or lethal is pretty extensive.


I do think the vaccines are safe*

I equally think the entire premise they are safe because* of their ingredients occurring already in a person is silly and  pretty misleading.

🤷‍♂️

[Muzh]

Muzh, I guess the reports of your death were exaggerated !!

I'm like weed. Never die. 

[2tallbill]

Boe, don't you know that one hour internet search is more efficacious than a lifetime researching at a lab?

Welcome back to the forum!

[2tallbill]

Remember, those figures reflect what was achieved.  Would they be lower without all the measures taken and vaccines?  Certainly not.  IMO they would be double, maybe more.

Maybe less? 
Lockdowns only reduced COVID deaths by 0.2 per cent, Johns Hopkins study finds
We find no evidence that lockdowns, school closures, border closures, and limiting
gatherings have had a noticeable effect on COVID-19 mortality'
http://nationalpost.com/news/world/johns-hopkins-university-study-covid-19-lockdowns



CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo completely avoid Johns Hopkins study finding COVID
lockdowns ineffective ABC, CBS, NBC also ignored the anti-lockdown study
http://www.foxnews.com/media/johns-hopkins-university-study-lockdowns-media-blackout


How many trillions in losses of income were caused by Lefty do-gooder control freaks?
How many businesses went under? How many children lost a years education?
How many lefty's called GOP governors killers, for reopening their states?

[GQBlues]

I'm like weed. Never die. 

Hola! Welcome back!!!


What kept you away?