Is this an accurate view of how many Russian Girls are?

[Trenchcoat]

So was googling around the last few days on Russian stuff and this account if how Russia Girls are came up apparently on a student forum, it goes about 10 years back and reads:

"Im a russian girl but i don't exactly see myself as russian because i grew up in england. But knowing many russian people etc i can say it does depend on her situation. If she is new to england be careful.

First, where is she from.
If it is a small villiage deep in russia- expect some materialistic attachement. But great housewife
If she is from a big city esp Moscow, and your bank account is low, then you got little chance
Otherwise, she will expect gifts, clothes, the lot.

Secondly, What is she looking for
A guy that will just give and give
A romantic genuine loving and lasting relationship
A passport
Sex
Something else

There you just have to sort for yourself, enjoy the sex while it lasts but dont do anything committing, a passport that all for you to decide, genuine relationship you are lucky, russian girls are very caring, amazing housewives know how to cook and stay in the kitchen.
If she is constantly asking for things then be careful, they are clever, dont get your mind in a twist, marry and then she could divorce and take half your stuff.

Thirdly, again if she is from a big city, you must always entertain her, they are huge fans of clubs, dancing, short dresses, huge heals etc. Dont be afraid"

I've obviously had this once, but is this how many Russian girls view western guys? Kind of like their rich so you can get stuff?

I know not all FSW are like that but it seemed like she had the inside track on how many girls out there view western men. We know of course in addition there are girls that want visa mules or are playing the long game. But I guess it just made me wonder how prevalent this view was?


Here is a link to the forum post for anyone interested:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1734952

Some interesting views of Russian women on there, some quite funny posts lol.

[ML]

I would say there is a lot of validity to what she posted . . . although I really didn't encounter such in my meetings with hundreds of FSU gals.

Probably the difference was related to my age group of 35 - 50.

And, even in that age group, there might have been such women but they were eliminated by me based on some other happenings or they eliminated me when they determined that I would not lavish on them to the extent they desired. 

If there were gold diggers that I spent considerable time with, this must have all been done in a 'round about' manner so that I never saw them as gold diggers.

Anyway none of the 10 or so that I spent a couple of months or more with were gold diggers . . . unless they were playing a really long and very well hidden 'end game.'

[Jumper1]

She clearly listed several possibilities,  all quite varied and said it's up to you to figure out.

Her reflections seemed aimed at a 20s mentality.

No different than your local big city university students in any country.

Again I ask you a question you need to define in yourself,what are you looking for?

Whatever it is ,you can find it within the population of the FSU, or the uk.

Your choice of looking both places or only one,but be well aware that the difficulties are greater doing so  in.the FSU .

Has nothing to do with women being different, as most humans have similar life goals.
It has to do with your capacity in sorting out compatibilities in a culture you arnt intimately familiar with, a language barrier to some degree versus your own.
That's not just you,its all of us to various degrees.

If you want a very family oriented woman, then look for one.
It only takes one.


Stop looking for a multitude of reasons why local.women or fsu women generally might not be a good fit.

Most women won't be a good fit, only certain ones will.
Generalities don't change your odds of finding someone special.and specific for YOU in any significant way.

You ,and everyone else including thecwomrn are looking for a needle in the haystack.
It doesn't matter whether the hay is alfalfa or clover it changes nothing as you are looking for a needle.

Poor analogy but I think you'll understand.
Time is best spent define what you want and looking for that within the masses.

Looking firbgrneralizations in the masses doesnt help .

A smoking hotkova mosckovitchla may expect monthly trips to Dubai,  a high rise apartment all.the latest fashion and jewelry.
Or she may want a good husband snd children and not give a dang about fashion.

You have to sort that out


But in your queries it seems you may need to concentrate on realistic expectations.

 Your rather natural  infatuation of  25yo smokinhotkovas who dress the part , is understandable in the sense that sex sells! Always have ,always will.
Most advertising ,most entertainmemt industries utilize beautiful young people male or female .

So noones throwing you under the bus for enjoying the appearance of a hottie. .

Tempering that with whether you are an interesting man to women younger than you is part of what you still seem.to be convincing yourself for or agaisnt with all.these musings.


Is it possible? Well you could win the lottery but why hold on to that long of odds?

You know internally it's a very unlikely scenario and you keep justifying this by anything you read or scenarios of her* leaving you after she arrives.

To pull that off you'd need bucket loads more confidence , and a solid mental.state ,and even then its unlikely.

So temper what you'd prefer* (a 24yo hottie sex puppet at your disposal that adores the ground you walk on)
With the life reality of your character,your situation and life style and what type of lifestyle you hope for and can realistically expect.

You increase your odds of  your search and of a happy family life exponentially if you define what you need, vs unrealistic preferences.

[Trenchcoat]

Some good observations I think. I think your right ML it's probably more age specific for girls in their late teens & twenties.

Jumper, I think you're analysis of my situation is right too. The type of girl I most seek is one where I really need to up my game both socially and otherwise. I think such a girl I would need to learn the Russian language for, assuming Ukrainians don't try to ditch it altogether. I think in most cases to stand a realistic chance that type of girl would want a guy who has some decent grasp of the language as well as being able to provide and other stuff.

Going for other girls that are easier to get I could do but I'm not really the type to settle. I know that puts me in a tough climb that many will say is ridiculous but I still feel minded to give it a shot.

Off recent I have been thinking of other options than living in the UK. I would want to travel back to the UK and stay regularly but my thoughts are especially at the beginning of a relationship starting it off in Ukraine is a better way, outside of invasions of course. I think trying to transplant a Ukrainian girl into western culture particularly at the start of a relationship is just bad news and asking for trouble. I don't think I could ever feel comfortable with that possibly not even in the longer term. Western culture I have come to realise is so different to Ukrainian culture that it would really put many a girl in a tailspin and risk changing what I like about her and like in a woman for the worst. Western cultural influences on women are not good in many ways and these ways that are alien to her could really be an issue I think. So while I'll seek to split my time between the UK & Ukraine to suit the situation best I really don't think taking the girl out of Ukraine is a good idea these days in most cases but almost definitely in mine I'm thinking.

[Chelseaboy]

A year before i split with my wife she said to me "The longer i've lived here the more westernized my thinking has become ".


I didn't say anything but my thoughts were "Oh God " : (


I know a bloke who's married to an Ethiopian girl.


I asked him when he's bringing her to the UK.


"No chance " was his reply."When i buy her a dress she treats me like a King.If she was living here she'd be complaining it isn't Versace "


If you can find a way to live in another country ,whether Ukraine or elsewhere,with the intention of finding a partner and staying there with her,i'd say go for it.

[Trenchcoat]

A year before i split with my wife she said to me "The longer i've lived here the more westernized my thinking has become ".


I didn't say anything but my thoughts were "Oh God " : (


I know a bloke who's married to an Ethiopian girl.


I asked him when he's bringing her to the UK.


"No chance " was his reply."When i buy her a dress she treats me like a King.If she was living here she'd be complaining it isn't Versace "


If you can find a way to live in another country ,whether Ukraine or elsewhere,with the intention of finding a partner and staying there with her,i'd say go for it.

Yeah that looks like it was a bad sign with your wife CB, kind of says it all, western values/culture wreaking relationships. Was your wife from the FSU?

Anyway, it's not really just a FSW coming here and the relationship turning bad as a result of western values/culture it's western women too. I just couldn't get with any western woman I would have to know she was real into me and intent on me. I just see so many western women as a potential problem in the pipeline further down the road. If not being dominated and all that own too then her deciding at some point something else suits her.

I'm not saying anything can work out for certain in Ukraine but I think it stands a lot better chance. I'm pretty sure within a short time of coming here with most women the relationship would be running into trouble one way or another. Either she can't get with the way things are, home sick, or western culture starts to quickly demolish all that I like about FSW and the relationship.

The good thing is that there are now budget airline flights direct to Odessa so that makes it fairly cheap and easy. My Brother has a wife and young kids to keep him busy so meeting up with him a fair bit when back should probably work out fine. My Sister is much the same but I kind of just see her the festive times of the year anyway, Christmas, Easter & Birthday, about 3-4 times a year so probably no different there lol. My Mother I spend half my week at my house and half the week at hers. That I feel a bit more concerned about as the others don't pop in and see her much moreso because of the virus I think. My thoughts would probably be on doing a monthly trip back for about a week as I wouldn't like to leave her on her own for long periods of the year, she doesn't socialise well but does ay least have her hobbies I guess, gardening, etc.

My thoughts are on possibly getting one of those Amazon devises, Amazon Show or something like that I think it is. Unlike my Brother & Sister she is not up on technology. We have all the Netflix, Amazon prime, etc TV stuff but she's never been one for mobile phones. So kind of need something where she can just click a button and take a video call or WhatsApp message. Kind of been looking into it for the TV but not found anything like that yet as would be useful for the few days I'm away at my house. Other than that phone calls as usual but although video chat isn't quite the same as being there in person it's better than a phone call I think as if you can see the other person they feel somewhat nearer to you.

Think I'll probably rent to start with, can only be there three months on then three months off initially in Ukraine as an easy in. That should be fine I think to begin with, decide upon what I like, place to stay out there. I'm thinking I really need to be out there to avoid the girl thinking I am married back home as had that bs come up before and don't need it buggering up a relationship. If it looks like I permanently enough live out there and got my own place then that should hopefully get away from that one.

I kind of like it out there to be honest, the place and the culture so thinking it makes sense to live out there, I could enjoy it. Nothing wrong so much with the UK other than the culture having its downsides but reckon I could live better out in Ukraine and avoid many problems. End of the day I think it would be easier for me to assimilate to Ukrainian culture than the other way around. I've kind of had quite a lot of insight, thinking and experience of the culture and in some ways I'm intrigued to know more, not of the rougher side though of course I think many Ukrainian girls wouldn't have much if any idea of our culture and it would be difficult for them to get with without it causing issues and even if they did then it probably causing issues, so much better and easier for me to make the change.

With most Ukrainian girls wanting to date locally for me it kind of makes most sense also. Even on International dating sites there is no guarantee that the girl will want to move abroad, change her mind or not like it. For me also it cuts out corresponding with girls with a lot of ulterior motives as well such as visa mule, upgrading, etc, etc and that to me is a worry when using International dating sites that I often start to worry why she might really be seeking a guy abroad. As you know a lot can come out with a lot of guff that they think sounds good and what the guy wants to hear but have very other different idea to mind. For me I don't think it would be a good idea for me to ignore that concern also.

So going to start moving towards that I think, finish of my house, rent out the rooms, get back to learning Russian a bit etc and look at places to stay out there (assuming the Russians don't invade of course). That for me I think would offer me a better lifestyle, the UK while my home country is something I am all a bit too familiar with perhaps.

[John Gaunt]

Some good observations I think. I think your right ML it's probably more age specific for girls in their late teens & twenties.

Jumper, I think you're analysis of my situation is right too. The type of girl I most seek is one where I really need to up my game both socially and otherwise. I think such a girl I would need to learn the Russian language for, assuming Ukrainians don't try to ditch it altogether. I think in most cases to stand a realistic chance that type of girl would want a guy who has some decent grasp of the language as well as being able to provide and other stuff.

Going for other girls that are easier to get I could do but I'm not really the type to settle. I know that puts me in a tough climb that many will say is ridiculous but I still feel minded to give it a shot.

There is absolutely no way you are ever going to get any kind of girl easily. Your attitudes will make girls run for the hills as soon as they get wise. The only exception is the visa mule seeker so, in a way, it would be a self fulfilling prophecy for you.

Off recent I have been thinking of other options than living in the UK. I would want to travel back to the UK and stay regularly but my thoughts are especially at the beginning of a relationship starting it off in Ukraine is a better way, outside of invasions of course. I think trying to transplant a Ukrainian girl into western culture particularly at the start of a relationship is just bad news and asking for trouble. I don't think I could ever feel comfortable with that possibly not even in the longer term.

Here you go again. You have zero self confidence and can only look at worst case scenarios.
All this talk about cultural differences is just cover for your true thoughts which are your fears of the girl doing a runner.

Western culture I have come to realise is so different to Ukrainian culture that it would really put many a girl in a tailspin and risk changing what I like about her and like in a woman for the worst. Western cultural influences on women are not good in many ways and these ways that are alien to her could really be an issue I think.

Rinse and repeat, Trench.

There’s many a bloke gone before whose been successful or do you think you’re the first?
My wife lives quite happily in the UK, no cultural whataboutery to speak of.

BTW, girls in Ukraine love Macdonalds too.

So while I'll seek to split my time between the UK & Ukraine to suit the situation best I really don't think taking the girl out of Ukraine is a good idea these days in most cases but almost definitely in mine I'm thinking.

You’ve lost the plot. You can’t pull a chick at home and you think you’re going to do that in Ukraine and live out there???? 

[Trenchcoat]

There is absolutely no way you are ever going to get any kind of girl easily. Your attitudes will make girls run for the hills as soon as they get wise. The only exception is the visa mule seeker so, in a way, it would be a self fulfilling prophecy for you.

Here you go again. You have zero self confidence and can only look at worst case scenarios.
All this talk about cultural differences is just cover for your true thoughts which are your fears of the girl doing a runner. Rinse and repeat, Trench.

There’s many a bloke gone before whose been successful or do you think you’re the first?
My wife lives quite happily in the UK, no cultural whataboutery to speak of.

BTW, girls in Ukraine love Macdonalds too.

You’ve lost the plot. You can’t pull a chick at home and you think you’re going to do that in Ukraine and live out there???? 

Fears are often based on something Gaunty and I don't think it's always about a lack of self confidence. If it is self confidence then again there might be good reason not to be confident.

This isn't all about fat chicks, of course vIve never liked the scene. Nor is it necessarily about career women or feminists. While seeing the back of a lot of that (not literally) would be good I think there is also the greater outlook of western culture which tends to be destructive. I'm talking about values here, people cheating on each other, people trying to get one over on another person, people thinking they are superior, people not respecting the other person they are in a relationship with, etc, etc. The kind of go out for yourself, pick people up and dump them attitude or insincerity, etc. I'm not saying Ukraine doesn't have elements of that, I'm sure people don't do right by each other often but here it just seems that some people are just out for self interest. Difficult to explain but I just don't like the attitude here, mostly women but also some guys.

I'm thinking probably you and your wife situation suit each other pretty well. For me however as a different person I'm not sure that it would work so well for me and that's what I kind of what I've got to go the back off.

[ML]

As I have mentioned before, my UW wife has not experienced any cultural shock living in USA.

She did travel around Eastern Europe quite a bit and to Greece, Egypt, Turkey, etc., before coming to USA to be with me, but those trips were not comparable to having extensive contact with western culture.

She and I have tried before to analyze the reasons for her lack of cultural shock, but haven't come up with any answers.

And she has not exhibited any of the 'entitlement' attitudes that are often discussed here regarding FSU women (or foreign women in general) when they live with western men in the west.

There is a Ukrainian group here that we socialize with a couple of times a year.  There are no real conflicts, but wife has mentioned that she prefers company of USA women to the Ukrainian women.  Again, she can't put her finger on the most important reasons for this . . . just that it exists.

[Jumper1]

TC- I dont think being realistic  is settling?
I did not say to pursue women that arnt attractive to you personally.

But the latest Milan supermodel isnt a realistic goal either.
If you cant find some happy ground in between romantic life is going to be very very difficult.
You cant pull a Milan model just* because she lives in dumpsk.
 

You could if you somehow won her heart,but honestly if you want a happy family life that's still unlikely to be the best equation.
There ate plenty of very attractive women in their mid or late thirties.
You dont seem to even consider them and that's really where your target demographic should be if what you want is a complete family
Not because the young hottie will run.off with a  local gym.rat.
But because her life priorities and interests are likely to be vastly different than yours at that age.
When shes 30 or 40  it's much more likely she prioritizes family,children ,home life or similar goals to your own.

Dont make an already difficult thing ,even more complex.


As far as CB and you dwelling on westernization,  sorry despite your experiences,
 I absolutely cannot relate in any way shape or form.
I know for a fact I was more attracted to my wife as she had a more western mentality.
It also made her transition to life here 1000 times easier,as she enjoyed all of it,not looking back wistfully at FSU cultural norms.
Did she get slightly more westernized after living here now 11 years? Yes.
Is it a big change or negative in any way? Absolutely not.

For the life of me I'm not sure how materialistic views and *expectations of brands etc, are attributed to being westernized.
That's laughable when the quite common FSU mentality of brand envy ,jealousy ,showing off is far more prevalent than in the west across all demographics.
I live in a university town, a fairly expensive university and can assure you the local university girls,where typically  from well heeled parents, care far less about Versace than thier uni counterparts in kharkiv as a general rule.
Remember I lived in eastern block countries, generalities and stereotypes are silly,but to think the type car envied or the brand of fashion is somehow less important in the fsu than the west is amusing at best. Your typical  young moscovitchka can give anyone in the world a run for that.

So no,my wifes expectation of what dress, what brand hand bag if anything at all became less important then longer she has resided here.
If you dont find that to be true you married a woman that already prioritized material things anyway. It certainly wasnt because she relocated.
Nothing wrong with prioritizing whatever a person wants to,but if that's not compatible with you,then you should know that when you marry.
It's a character trait! not dictated by where someone lives.
It can be partially due to age and place in life as well, we often change our priorities as we go thru stages in life.

Anyway tempering someone's  expectations by limiting where someone you care about lives is a completely odd mentality and your search is then all wrong.
  Look for women of a compatible character , it wont change if she lives in 25 different countries.
Its beyond foolish  to be manipulator/controlling of a persons lifestyle in hope they expect less in life than is natural to them.

In the end , while I know I was lucky, and that I am certainly nothing special in any way,certainly not wealthy,
I also know communicating and meeting a woman that shared my life goals,stage in life ,and general priorities was not particularly difficult either. She has normal and tempered expectations of life in general.She is  beautiful inside and out and works hard at self improvement. She is a fantastic ,active and engaged mother and wife.

This is boy meets girl,it isnt rocket science.
Its determining what's actually important and realistic for you in life,and finding someone that generally shares those aspirations,goals. Then the tricky part of nabbing their heart.
That's up to you,no formula for that.
If I had that answer I'd actually be wealthy ha!

[Jumper1]

As I have mentioned before, my UW wife has not experienced any cultural shock living in USA.

She did travel around Eastern Europe quite a bit and to Greece, Egypt, Turkey, etc., before coming to USA to be with me, but those trips were not comparable to having extensive contact with western culture.

She and I have tried before to analyze the reasons for her lack of cultural shock, but haven't come up with any answers.

And she has not exhibited any of the 'entitlement' attitudes that are often discussed here regarding FSU women (or foreign women in general) when they live with western men in the west.

There is a Ukrainian group here that we socialize with a couple of times a year.  There are no real conflicts, but wife has mentioned that she prefers company of USA women to the Ukrainian women.  Again, she can't put her finger on the most important reasons for this . . . just that it exists.

I find this the norm,not the exception.

But maybe I gravitated towards western mentalities,not sure.
If so, I'd highly advise doing so.

[Trenchcoat]

As I have mentioned before, my UW wife has not experienced any cultural shock living in USA.

She did travel around Eastern Europe quite a bit and to Greece, Egypt, Turkey, etc., before coming to USA to be with me, but those trips were not comparable to having extensive contact with western culture.

She and I have tried before to analyze the reasons for her lack of cultural shock, but haven't come up with any answers.

And she has not exhibited any of the 'entitlement' attitudes that are often discussed here regarding FSU women (or foreign women in general) when they live with western men in the west.

There is a Ukrainian group here that we socialize with a couple of times a year.  There are no real conflicts, but wife has mentioned that she prefers company of USA women to the Ukrainian women.  Again, she can't put her finger on the most important reasons for this . . . just that it exists.

Interesting contribution ML. Yeah there probably are certain women that take to western culture better. Sone women travel abroad a bit or their mind is just geared better for it perhaps. It's kind of strange that many Brits abroad in Spain live in ex-pat communities and go to British restaurants that do British food. I'm not one that is so bothered about there being fellow Brits around, I don't mind the odd few, some loath it though and would rather be a million miles away from any other Brits lol. Not many of them I think though, it's kind of strange here the popularity of Spain where most Brits go over far cheaper alternatives like Italy where far fewer Brits look to live or holiday abroad.

Myself idk I just kind of get the impression I would be better off kicking off a relationship abroad seeing how that goes. Possibly there might be a generation issue, ex-Soviet women taking to living in the west better than post-Soviet women. While there is probably an individual aspect to it I think there is a particularly high divorce rate of western guys marrying FSW wasn't there?

[Jumper1]

Just curious TC, does the FSU woman get to temper you western expectation of the shape of her popa by how well you can provide?

This isnt a business transaction, if you make it one, then expect all those  negative thoughts to come true.

[Jumper1]

Interesting contribution ML. Yeah there probably are certain women that take to western culture better. Sone women travel abroad a bit or their mind is just geared better for it perhaps. It's kind of strange that many Brits abroad in Spain live in ex-pat communities and go to British restaurants that do British food. I'm not one that is so bothered about there being fellow Brits around, I don't mind the odd few, some loath it though and would rather be a million miles away from any other Brits lol. Not many of them I think though, it's kind of strange here the popularity of Spain where most Brits go over far cheaper alternatives like Italy where far fewer Brits look to live or holiday abroad.

Myself idk I just kind of get the impression I would be better off kicking off a relationship abroad seeing how that goes. Possibly there might be a generation issue, ex-Soviet women taking to living in the west better than post-Soviet women. While there is probably an individual aspect to it I think there is a particularly high divorce rate of western guys marrying FSW wasn't there?

I'd assume divorce rates in cross cultural marraiges would be higher than domestic,not that domestic rates are good.
My assumption is based only in lack of sharing a language,culture ,and often the amount of time spent  together prior to marraige.


Wont change your one one relationship with your spouse.

[Trenchcoat]

Just curious TC, does the FSU woman get to temper you western expectation of the shape of her popa by how well you can provide?

This isnt a business transaction, if you make it one, then expect all those  negative thoughts to come true.

I get what you're saying Jumper and it's a good point. Going to Odessa to live gets me in the play park. I know that to do it on wealth alone or mainly is not a good way to go. Self improvement stuff should hopefully help me get some of the way. After that it's a numbers game I figure, the more girls I can meet up with then hopefully one will crop up who take a genuine interest in me, I know the signs for sure now so just a case of coming across the right one.

[Jumper1]

Why Odessa (I'm merely curious)

It's likely the last  Ukrainian city I'd choose to search.
The agency influence and profiteering off foreigners is a ling held tradition.

[Trenchcoat]

Why Odessa (I'm merely curious)

It's likely the last  Ukrainian city I'd choose to search.
The agency influence and profiteering off foreigners is a long held tradition.

Most of the big cities in Ukraine have a bad reputation for agencies, etc, Kyiv, Kharkiv, Nikolaev, Kherson. Lviv isn't too bad, but it's a small city. Sone of the central Ukraine cities are apparently not too bad but no cheap direct flights and less exciting to be.

Odessa is near the sea, so nice outlook, beaches, slightly better weather, nice and interesting architecture.

The girls there tend not to like the Turks so I would be a refreshing change for them They apparently get a fair amount of Turks there.

Sure you can get a fair amount of US and sone UK tourists there, probably more now a direct flight goes there. So that is a down side. I will be aiming more at local girls who want to stay in Ukraine so may not be too badly affected by it. End of the day it may or may not be the right city. Possibly the central Ukraine cities may be the best bet but I can always travel to visit any girls there, etc Just a case of seeing how it goes really.

[Boethius]

A year before i split with my wife she said to me "The longer i've lived here the more westernized my thinking has become ".


I didn't say anything but my thoughts were "Oh God " : (


I know a bloke who's married to an Ethiopian girl.


I asked him when he's bringing her to the UK.


"No chance " was his reply."When i buy her a dress she treats me like a King.If she was living here she'd be complaining it isn't Versace "


If you can find a way to live in another country ,whether Ukraine or elsewhere,with the intention of finding a partner and staying there with her,i'd say go for it.

That's one of the stupidist things I have read.  It just shows that whoever you married had no balanced centre.  The Ethiopian, similarly, is affected by external factors that, in the grand scheme of things, aren't very important, and the man sounds like a real winner (/s).

[John Gaunt]

I get what you're saying Jumper and it's a good point. Going to Odessa to live gets me in the play park. I know that to do it on wealth alone or mainly is not a good way to go. Self improvement stuff should hopefully help me get some of the way. After that it's a numbers game I figure, the more girls I can meet up with then hopefully one will crop up who take a genuine interest in me, I know the signs for sure now so just a case of coming across the right one.

More pie in the sky Trench.

[Jumper1]

Most of the big cities in Ukraine have a bad reputation for agencies, etc, Kyiv, Kharkiv, Nikolaev, Kherson. Lviv isn't too bad, but it's a small city. Sone of the central Ukraine cities are apparently not too bad but no cheap direct flights and less exciting to be.

Odessa is near the sea, so nice outlook, beaches, slightly better weather, nice and interesting architecture.

The girls there tend not to like the Turks so I would be a refreshing change for them They apparently get a fair amount of Turks there.

Sure you can get a fair amount of US and sone UK tourists there, probably more now a direct flight goes there. So that is a down side. I will be aiming more at local girls who want to stay in Ukraine so may not be too badly affected by it. End of the day it may or may not be the right city. Possibly the central Ukraine cities may be the best bet but I can always travel to visit any girls there, etc Just a case of seeing how it goes really.

Ok. I'll grant to seaside aspect.

I will tell you even some Ukrainians would raise an eyebrow at Odessa. Even for them.
Way before the mob side of things it was more touristy,more shams, euro businessman going there for decades for sex tourism etc.etc etc
It's a relatively small city and the younger hotties you dream of are more than aware of agency lore,how to profit from.it etc,heck their grandmothers may have.
Its like picking hollyweird or las Vegas as the best spot in the USA to find a
young beaitiful woman looking for domestic family life.
possible? Sure.  Their priority at that age location  and time? Less likely than other places just by nature .


As far as agencies,its far more prevelant in Odessa and the soft sham biz highly well oiled  and calculated.
Obviously you can pick any random.city.
In the end it likely isn't a determining factor.

But overall I'd pick any random provincial city in ukraine..
Or kyiv, dnepro,etc.

[Trenchcoat]

Ok. I'll grant to seaside aspect.

I will tell you even some Ukrainians would raise an eyebrow at Odessa. Even for them.
Way before the mob side of things it was more touristy,more shams, euro businessman going there for decades for sex tourism etc.etc etc
It's a relatively small city and the younger hotties you dream of are more than aware of agency lore,how to profit from.it etc,heck their grandmothers may have.
Its like picking hollyweird or las Vegas as the best spot in the USA to find a
young beaitiful woman looking for domestic family life.
possible? Sure.  Their priority at that age location  and time? Less likely than other places just by nature .


As far as agencies,its far more prevelant in Odessa and the soft sham biz highly well oiled  and calculated.
Obviously you can pick any random.city.
In the end it likely isn't a determining factor.

But overall I'd pick any random provincial city in ukraine..
Or kyiv, dnepro,etc.

You're right there is definitely more sound choices than Odessa. Its just in my mind to go there, I agree it's not the best choice for the reasons you mention but its just where I see myself I don't know why it just chimes with me. Like I say I could visit the other cities and girls in those cities while over there and use Odessa as a temporary base nothing to stop that. Odds are those cities will have cheap but decent hotel rooms for a night or two here & there. If I found a girl in another Ukrainian city then who knows. Being in her city is of course the place to be or her coming to me in Odessa. Thing is until I find the right girl it could be any Ukrainian city, Odessa I guess is just handy as it's fairly well connected, good uplifting scenery and vibe assuming renting in the right area. I wouldn't of course rule out seeing a girl from Odessa but like you say likely a higher risk factor in getting a bad girl.

Odessa is pretty handy for direct flights back to UK also so cuts down on travel time. Thing is the moment I add in a transfer flight from a central Ukraine city to say Kyiv (most likely) then the journey time goes up, sometimes a lot in terms of waiting for transfer flight and of course complexity, booking making sure dated & times align, etc. Having a direct flight makes it a lot more straightforward and less prone to silly mistakes.

So yeah I don't doubt your analysis of the situation with regard to choice of city, who knows I might be making a faux pas even with what I've just said but kind of think it's the way that grabs my mind so just going with that really.

[Trenchcoat]

TC- I dont think being realistic  is settling?
I did not say to pursue women that arnt attractive to you personally.

But the latest Milan supermodel isnt a realistic goal either.
If you cant find some happy ground in between romantic life is going to be very very difficult.
You cant pull a Milan model just* because she lives in dumpsk.
 

You could if you somehow won her heart,but honestly if you want a happy family life that's still unlikely to be the best equation.
There ate plenty of very attractive women in their mid or late thirties.
You dont seem to even consider them and that's really where your target demographic should be if what you want is a complete family
Not because the young hottie will run.off with a  local gym.rat.
But because her life priorities and interests are likely to be vastly different than yours at that age.
When shes 30 or 40  it's much more likely she prioritizes family,children ,home life or similar goals to your own.

Dont make an already difficult thing ,even more complex.


As far as CB and you dwelling on westernization,  sorry despite your experiences,
 I absolutely cannot relate in any way shape or form.
I know for a fact I was more attracted to my wife as she had a more western mentality.
It also made her transition to life here 1000 times easier,as she enjoyed all of it,not looking back wistfully at FSU cultural norms.
Did she get slightly more westernized after living here now 11 years? Yes.
Is it a big change or negative in any way? Absolutely not.

For the life of me I'm not sure how materialistic views and *expectations of brands etc, are attributed to being westernized.
That's laughable when the quite common FSU mentality of brand envy ,jealousy ,showing off is far more prevalent than in the west across all demographics.
I live in a university town, a fairly expensive university and can assure you the local university girls,where typically  from well heeled parents, care far less about Versace than thier uni counterparts in kharkiv as a general rule.
Remember I lived in eastern block countries, generalities and stereotypes are silly,but to think the type car envied or the brand of fashion is somehow less important in the fsu than the west is amusing at best. Your typical  young moscovitchka can give anyone in the world a run for that.

So no,my wifes expectation of what dress, what brand hand bag if anything at all became less important then longer she has resided here.
If you dont find that to be true you married a woman that already prioritized material things anyway. It certainly wasnt because she relocated.
Nothing wrong with prioritizing whatever a person wants to,but if that's not compatible with you,then you should know that when you marry.
It's a character trait! not dictated by where someone lives.
It can be partially due to age and place in life as well, we often change our priorities as we go thru stages in life.

Anyway tempering someone's  expectations by limiting where someone you care about lives is a completely odd mentality and your search is then all wrong.
  Look for women of a compatible character , it wont change if she lives in 25 different countries.
Its beyond foolish  to be manipulator/controlling of a persons lifestyle in hope they expect less in life than is natural to them.

In the end , while I know I was lucky, and that I am certainly nothing special in any way,certainly not wealthy,
I also know communicating and meeting a woman that shared my life goals,stage in life ,and general priorities was not particularly difficult either. She has normal and tempered expectations of life in general.She is  beautiful inside and out and works hard at self improvement. She is a fantastic ,active and engaged mother and wife.

This is boy meets girl,it isnt rocket science.
Its determining what's actually important and realistic for you in life,and finding someone that generally shares those aspirations,goals. Then the tricky part of nabbing their heart.
That's up to you,no formula for that.
If I had that answer I'd actually be wealthy ha!

Well it's not really about tempering their expectations by living in Ukraine. For me it really does two things, firstly it eliminates a lot of suspicion I have on the International dating sites of a woman who wants me as a visa mule or similar alterior motives. Secondly it allows me to reach their expectations more easily as due to income from the west I will come off better than in the west. I'm not saying that I'm looking to win on the wealth front but beating the competition in general is generally a good idea I think. In the west there are loads of guys as wealthy or wealthier than myself, that along with other factors of course is an issue.

The rest of what you say is sound enough to my mind Jumper. I think you're correct its the girls in their thirties rather than twenties that have having children on the mind. I think for foreigners in general fewer girls in their twenties are serious about having children with a foreigner from the get go, with a local moreso perhaps.

I'll just have to see what I bring up as there's probably no girl that fits a long checkbox list of stuff. Having a girl who is into me and have a shared interest is probably the simplest way to go. I have the odd few other personal preferences but who knows.

The brand name stuff in the FSU I don't mind, I get my brand stuff cheap off eBay as you know. A few items of clothes last me many many years so now that I've got I can go out and wow them out in Ukraine time and time again

[SteveInBoston]

There are many Russian girls.

[John Gaunt]

Well it's not really about tempering their expectations by living in Ukraine. For me it really does two things, firstly it eliminates a lot of suspicion I have on the International dating sites of a woman who wants me as a visa mule or similar alterior motives.

Nothing like a bit of suspicion to kill a relationship. You’re your own worst enemy.

Secondly it allows me to reach their expectations more easily as due to income from the west I will come off better than in the west. I'm not saying that I'm looking to win on the wealth front but beating the competition in general is generally a good idea I think. In the west there are loads of guys as wealthy or wealthier than myself, that along with other factors of course is an issue.

You are not wealthy, by any measurable standard. Not in the UK and not in Ukraine either.
Your ‘income’ from your bedsit rental will, at best, pay your bills with some small change left over.
There won’t be ladies falling over to queue up for such an illustrious catch.

[Boethius]

You are not wealthy, by any measurable standard. Not in the UK and not in Ukraine either.
Your ‘income’ from your bedsit rental will, at best, pay your bills with some small change left over.
There won’t be ladies falling over to queue up for such an illustrious catch.

That's especially true somewhere like Odesa.  The average annual salary for a male in Odesa is about 1.5  million hryvnia, which is about 10,000 pounds or more than Trench's current UK salary.