TverRomance

[av8or1]

Y'all,

Hmmmm...well all I can say is that I began this thread because they raised my suspicion with their letter writing.  The responses came quickly after I sent the original letters and the content of those letters sent up some serious RED FLAGS in my opinion, which is based on my previous travels to the FSU, though mostly to Ukraine and only once to Russia.  Examples of these RED FLAGS include the following:

"...The reason I joined the agency is that I haven’t had any luck with men in Russia and there are several reasons why. First of all there are much more women in Tver than men, the ratio is approximately 5 to 1(!) Another reason is that Russian men are not as family oriented as foreign men..."

and:

"...I hope you are serious about this program just like me..."

And what I find also interesting is that three of the women I selected to write to don't even live in Tver, but in Moscow.  Richard and I have spoken off-list and he told me about a guy who they talked into making a trip BACK to Moscow to meet a woman in their agency who lived there and they charged him EXTRA to make the trip (which in a twisted sense is understandable, but...).  I would not be willing to make such a trip and would not be interested in such women unless they came to Tver to meet with me.

mike15 was kind enough to contact me off-list also and he seems to have some experience with the city and the women there, so I will be fair and listen to him, if he ever replies to my PM.

Look, if I am to be completely open about the situation in Tver, I'm ... ahem ... not happy.  Why?  Because it's TR I would like to work with.  They have more women who interest me and significantly so.  Just my luck.  LP just doesn't have that many (I think 2, maybe 3 tops) and Richard's website is virtually void of women (now mind you, he seems honest, I am only making a report of what I've seen to date).  However, I am disappointed in TverRomance because of the reputation they have developed.  BH seems obvious so I won't comment on them, but how could Richard's TverAngels and Marc's LP have avoided such complaints (or rectified them, whatever) when TR has not?  'Seems to me that a reasonable conclusion is because the complaints about TR are true.  'Hacks me off to feel that way, but I guess it's life.  And with all of this mafia talk and such, I have kinda been turned off of Tver in general. (haven't ruled it out completely, but...)  I never experienced anything like this in my trips to Ukraine, ever.  Strange....

So anyway, what to do.  Dunno.  I would have taken a trip to Tver in a heartbeat to meet some of the women with whom I was corresponding with via TR.  Now...well, I just dunno.  Doesn't seem like a good proposition, I have been told that TR won't work with "walk-ins" and I don't think that you get your money's worth with their full-service tour package.  I don't mind paying a premium if I get service that justifies the cost; but when it's a situation other than that, which I believe this one (TR) to be, I'd rather just pay a-la carte for what I need/use.  TR doesn't even make mention of this option on their website however.

Finally, I tend to agree with Maxx regarding the profitability of such a venture as a dating agency in the FSU.  Does this result in negative reprecussions?  Eh, maybe, maybe not.  Depends on many things, things which TR seems to be failing to uphold...

Eh hell, maybe I'll just go against the advice of my interpreter by returning to Ukraine for my trip in November and stick with the American-owned agencies.  She had recommended going to Russia because the people and especially the women were "more honest than Ukrainians"....she told me that lying was/is "more accepted in Ukraine" but at the risk of making snap judgements, I'm just not seeing it.  Who knows...

Ok enough ramblings for a Wednesday.  Y'all take care and thank you again for all of the input.

Best regards,

Jerry

[SANDRO43]

So anyway, what to do.  Dunno.  I would have taken a trip to Tver in a heartbeat to meet some of the women with whom I was corresponding with via TR. 

If you're set on Tver as a target, there are other sites with profiles of several girls from that area. One that comes to my mind now is One Wife (http://www.onewife.com/). 

[Maxx2]

I wouldn't give up on Tver too easily. You might be able find a woman out of TR even. Just be sure your careful. Also it is well known that many RW look much better in person and many look much worse (or maybe a little) than their photographs. Some are not photogenic but are attractive in ways that the "perfect ones" aren't. I know this was the case of the one interpreter I used in another city. In her photographs she looked not too good. But in person she looked H-O-T . Too young for me and married.

Maxx   

[BillyB]

If you're set on Tver as a target, there are other sites with profiles of several girls from that area. One that comes to my mind now is One Wife (http://www.onewife.com/). 

Flipping through the pages of that site, I found some funny business. Scammer at one or both of these sites.

http://www.onewife.com/girl_profile.php?id=16691

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/512/512500P1.html

[Rvrwind]

If you're set on Tver as a target, there are other sites with profiles of several girls from that area. One that comes to my mind now is One Wife (http://www.onewife.com/). 

Better do some more research Sandro. If what I have been told is correct, this agency is BH, one & the same.

[BillyB]

Better do some more research Sandro. If what I have been told is correct, this agency is BH, one & the same.

Yep, same ID # used for the girls listed at both agencies.

http://www.behappy2day.com/girls_infonp.php?i=6691&PHPSESSID=ugjhg22ai8i9od6a9qv4vdrst5

http://www.onewife.com/girl_profile.php?id=16691

[SANDRO43]

Oops, sorry, you're right, Richard & BillyB, I missed the connection .

[GREGK]

I had heard Yaroslav was slithering around in Ukraine. Too bad they couldn't keep him confined to Tver (preferrably in prison).

[mike15]

I would rather not get into a back and forth debate.  My point is simple, I have been to TVER three times over the last two years.  I worked with TverRomance regarding several ladies, on two of my trips.  They both professional and and very helpful.  Yes they did charge me for all their services, and I was happy to pay them.  All the girls I met were real, of some of the girls were not interested in me.  When some calls a business a SCAM, on a post, that gives the entire Industry and the town a black mark.  What I am saying is be careful when throwing mud a business on this forum.   A forum like this is a good way to target a SCAM, just please be careful when posting something negative.  It sounds like anyone bashing this company has not visited them.  I am sure if you would visit them and meet Natasha , Lyuba or any of the other girls and I sure you will find them to be wonderful people. 

Of course we all had bad experiences with different businesses.

[Rvrwind]

I would rather not get into a back and forth debate.  My point is simple, I have been to TVER three times over the last two years.  I worked with TverRomance regarding several ladies, on two of my trips.

Congradulations, you got lucky, plenty of others got burned.
I ain't going to waste my time badmouthing them, they are well aware of how I feel. The rest of us are cooperating & working together in a fashion. We all take walk ins no matter what agency you come here with, BH, LTP & us are coopersting because it benifits the ladies, makes it easier for you guys to colaberate with several agencies. You can write to any of the ladies in our three programs & choose the agency you want to use for your logistics & see any of the ladies in all 3 agencies.
TR opted out & thats their choice to make. Thev rest of us decidedto bury the hatchet & do what the ladies need & quit thinkin' about our petty differences. We agree to disagree, I guess you could say, but we are cooperating & in the long run that cooperation is better for you guys & especially for the ladies.  Afterall all three of us agreed that in the end we are trying to make people happy & to find that happiness if we can. Those that don't cooperate, well we'll leave that open for interpretation, I just figure its their loss as well as a lose for the ladies they represent.
I am off the opinion that, or at least I like to think we (the Agencies) were all here for the same reason, to represent & help the ladies in the search find a partner. Others perhaps have other motives, not for me to say, but I do know my motives. When we decided that we didn't have to be buddy buddy & that their are some personal issues involved, but that we could cooperate in a fashion to achive what we all really want in the end, to help the ladies & the men find what they are all looking for. By cooperating in this manner I guess you could say it came down to put up or shut up & we chose both.
I wasn't pointing out that BH & One Wife are the same to start adebate. We have two websites too, nothin wrong in that. JFYI.
The fact is you guys are the ones that benifit from it by having a whole lot more options & the ladies benifit by having you show up. So if your worried about getting caught in the middle of something I would say that should be the least of your worries. However if your are worried about having too many ladies to choose from that you think you are going to go crazy, well I'd have to say that should be your biggest worry.
By the way, for those of you who think we don't have a lot of ladies in our program, Well all I can say to that is - 1 or 2000, what difference does it make? You can still only marry 1!!!

[GREGK]

Richard- Would you clarify your statement regarding your agency's cooperation with LTP and behappy2day? There are ladies at behappy2day that I wouldn't mind contacting but I will never use behappy again due to my past experience with them. How would one proceed?

[KenC]

Jerry,
Tver is a good spot because of the amount of marriage aged women available because of the local university.  I also like it because it isn't Moscow, St Pete, Kiev or Odessa (big cities) and the women don't have that big city 'tude going.  And yet it isn't a small village either.  It is relatively easy to get to (a couple hours drive from Moscow).  With one of the oldest and respected agencies located there (LTP) and the other mentioned here.  The abundance of agencies is a good/bad thing IMO.  Good because the girls will know the drill.  They will know that you are coming in to meet many others and won't kick too much about it.  Bad because some of the girls will be too experienced with foreign men and will be professional daters.

Keep in mind that you can find bad girls in good agencies and good girls in bad agencies too.  Just because an agency is good or bad it doesn't change who the girl is in real life.  A good example of this is a friend of my wife's in Tver.  Good looking woman in her mid 30's was listed on LTP.  She left LTP due to what she perceived as favoritism when she wasn't informed that a man she had been corresponding with came to Tver in part to meet her.  The head lady at LTP steered the guy toward women she liked personally.  Whether that is true or not is immaterial   Regardless, this woman left LTP and signed up with Be Happy.  Same woman, just different agency.

I will say that Richard here is the salt of the earth kind of guy.  Honest as the day is long.  I have also had the experience of dealing with Marc Dayton at LTP and they delivered everything as promised.  My wife also was a personal friend of Yassic (owner of Be happy).  My take on him is that he is a very aggressive guy wanting to be successful and isn't shy to cut some corners.  

In closing, I will advise you that no matter where you decide to go, just get your butt on a plane and GO!  No amount of conversation here will matter as much as you being there.  Read DKMM's trip report for more first hand information from a young guy that just returned.  Good luck.
KenC

[Jack]

First, I like Tver and much of what it has to offer. Not too crazy about what I perceive as the influence Moscow is having on Tver, which seems to increase every year. With Moscow's tremendous growth and location I think it won't be too many years from now before Tver could be a suburb of Moscow.


......"I am sure if you would visit them and meet Natasha , Lyuba or any of the other girls and I sure you will find them to be wonderful people.".......

Mike15, it's great you had a good experience with Natasha and Lyuba. I wish I could say the same for myself and 11 other guys who, like you, also meet both these women. The best way for me to sum up my feelings, and those from the other 11 guys (as they expressed their feelings to me in not the nicest of terms) who meet Natalia and Lyuba  is....."if it walks like a scamming duck, quake's like a scamming duck, smell's like a scamming duck,  it's more than likely a scamming duck!!!!!!

You can be 100% sure when we visit Tver in the spring of 2007 were not going to be dealing with any scamming ducks, quack-quack. Screw me once,..shame on you.  Screw me twice, ...shame on me.

Again Mike, glad you had a wonderful experience but I don't believe that a leopard can change it's spot. I have heard some guys found their Russian bride thru Anastasia, Anastasiaweb and even Confidential Connections. I'm sure those guys would also say that these agencies are legit and honest as they helped them find their wife's.

[Rvrwind]

Richard- Would you clarify your statement regarding your agency's cooperation with LTP and behappy2day? There are ladies at behappy2day that I wouldn't mind contacting but I will never use behappy again due to my past experience with them. How would one proceed?

Because of the difference in the programs & services available at the three agencies it is pretty much impossible to achieve a total or exstensive cooperative package.
Everything pretty much remains as is. You want to contact & write to any lady you will have to do that through the agency she is listed with, on their terms. The only area in which we are cooperating is that you can contact these ladies without being considered an exsclusive client of that agency & on the other agencies blacklist for using a different agency to arrive & stay in Tver.
You will also have to use the interpreter services of the agency that introduces you to the lady or ladies. If you want to change that down the road, that is between you, your lady & the agency involved.
Unlike TR who once you registar & write their ladies cnsiders you their exclusive client & if you show up here & try to meet the ladies through them anyway & get the royal shaft because you didn't use their services. The rest of us are mature enough to figure out that guys will registar on 20 different sites, so how can one agency claim he is their client. We are of the opinion that he is really nobodies client, but can be the client of all. In this way BH, LTP & we have decided that we are no longer of the notion that a client is our sole property. He comes here using the services of one company or shops around & uses the services of all three to get the best deal he can. Once here he can walk through the door of any of the three & meet ladies in their program for a fee.
We had tried to come to an understanding of the fee but to date it is pretty much up to each of us what & how we address that. For example at Tver Angels you can meet any woman in our program for 1500 Roubles & that includes an Interpreter for free for one hour. Over one hour & consecutive meetings with the same lady is the Terps hours only. BH was the same last I heard, but don't hold me to that.
I won't speak LTP but I do bielieve that between the 3 of us there is very little difference, if any. Most of the fighting between us has been over the "My Client Issue".
As an example we had a client in town about a month ago who had been writng ladies in all four agencies. He visited the three of us through ths method, had a great time, saw the sights, saved money on the trip by using different agencies to coordinate everything & left here a very happy camper eccept for one big bump in the form of TR where he had been writing 3 ladies he really wanted to see. If I told you what he eventually paid to meet them & other facts, you would probably faint. But thats their buisness, but I can attest that the client was not impressed & will never use their services again nor will he ever recommend them to anyone. Although I don't call what they did a scam, he deffinitly got the shaft & for no other reason than the fact that once you register with TR, you are their client, period!
The rest of us know this not to be true & have figured out to benifit you & the ladies, we need to shed that idea all together.
I know we are the new kids on the block & we don't have as many women as the others, I don't & won't apolgize for that. The others didn't either when they were as new as us. I know Mark doesn't like me saying it but in effect the three of us combined are giving you access to over 2000 women in one city. I'd say that is a pretty good market.
You are in charge of how you wish to proceed. Which companies you use for what services, without us badmouthing each other & trying to cut each others throats. We'll let the paying clients decide who & what company & services they choose to use but still give access to all the ladies in all our programs. Its called progress, & consumer demand!

[GREGK]

Darn! I was hoping the arrangement would be something like you or LTP advising behappy that a client wanted to contact one of their women using your agency or LTP for the correspondance and allowing behappy a "finder's fee" or something. That is the only way I would feel comfortable contacting a behappy woman. Otherwise a guy has no guarantee that he is even  actually communicating with the "real deal" if he relies on behappy2day. Oh Well!

[Rvrwind]

Even though your not comfortable writing to the ladies there is no reason you cannot come & meet her cold turkey, that is to say without writing first. BH has a lot of very nice ladies, that are real, & when you are here you can meet them without a problem. They at least deserve the opportunity to meet you.
Meeting cold turkey should not be underestimated. During my time searching I met many ladies I never wrote to, one of them is now my wife. Most of the women would prefer to meet you anyway rather than spend a lot of time writing letters. For most guys they end up meeting several in that manner because 9 time out of ten the one or ones you wrote to & specifically planned to see don't work out quite as planned.
I know in the past I have said some not so kind words about BH, but one thing I will say is when you are here, on the ground, meeting them is not a problem. In fact you are more than welcome.
You certainly can't tell me their ain't enough ladies to form a back up plan from us & LTP!

[Jack]

Richard their has been a lot of talk about BeHappy writing ladies pretending to be certain ladies. Have you heard of any of these claims? Or do you have any first or second hand knowledge of such dealings?

[GREGK]

Jack- I doubt Richard wants to get involved but check out my thread  regarding behappy on RMP from last year and you'll see what he had to say about them then. I appreciated his honesty which seems to be a rare commodity when dealing with some agencies.

[Rvrwind]

Jack, I am not going to get in a pissin' match, I have already declared that. What I personally feel about any other agency is going to stay that way - personal. I've heard stories about all the agencies here & probably many more than you have heard or read about.
Like I said up thread, we are working around our personal agendas & doing what is best for the ladies & the men & I'll stick by what I said. What BH does outside the relm of our agreement or even LTP for that matter is on them & has nothing to do with me. All I know is that when you are on the ground in Tver you can walk into BH's office & you will meet the ladies, beyond that I run my buisness my way & they run their buisness their way & I plan to leave it at that.

[Jack]

Greg is it possiable that you could send me by PM this link you are referring to or a little information about your experience with Be Happy. 

I certaintly do not want to be associated with any known agency that scams so any first hand experience would be much appreciated.  Thanks.

[BradSTL]

If what I have been told is correct, this agency is BH, one & the same.

Yes... bingo Richard!   A favorite woman I wrote at BeHappy even has the same ID at onewife.

[BradSTL]

Richard... I am trying to hunt down that TR... as soon as I see it I will give you a link, buy thread or PM.

Tver has a very rich history & that is just one of the reasons I chose to make my home here.

Not to veer off-topic, but its irrestible for me, Richard there has been a comment that Tver is getting to be more like Moscow.

I chat with some Tverites (via tvernet.ru)... they complain the town is dirty... too many unpaved roads and drunks... and its NOT ENOUGH like Moscow.  How do you see it?

Also... so many from Tver move to Moscow to work (as they do from other oblasts across from Russia)... but it seems with those I  chat with, that after 2-5 years so many *dash* home and settle in, or move elsewhere.  Living costs a lot in Moscow, excluding social life costs, and a *fair share* seemed disillusioned with life in the capital.  Not to mention the difficulty in getting a Moscow propiska.

How true is this?  Do you hear of many (men and women) who move to Moscow for work, only to return to Tver a few years later?  It seems the travel back and forth to Moscow from the provinces is a brisk business.

[jb]

Jack,

You can perform your own test with BeHappy if you're really interested, simply by registering with the agency.

Fill out their registration profile as being 4' 6" tall, 99 years old, and interested only in 78 year old midgets.  Your inbox will be filled daily with e-mails from young women who "supposedly" read your profile and are very interested in getting to know you.  At $10 per round trip e-mail, of course.

BeHappy may, as Rvr suggested, have many fillies in their stables, however none of them ever write letters to the men who register with the web site.  It is merely a potential revenue generating scheme, I doubt the people who run it are able to speak and read English at all since they are so easily tripped up by such a simple test.  They simply fire off a zazillion canned letters to every e-mail address in their database every week hoping to find a sucker to scam.  I'm sure, every so often, they get lucky, and that's what makes it profitable.

[mike15]

Gentlemen

My only point with TverRomance is that they are not a Scam.  I have been there a couple of times and the girls I met are real, Lyuba and Natasha are nice people.  That is the only point I am trying to make.  TverRomance is a legitimate business, there are plenty of SCAMS on the Internet, please be careful when labeling someone a SCAM.  Now, if you are saying that they will not cooperate with their competitors that is another story(although it seems that Lifetime Partners has an arrangement with them, and Mark Dayton defends them when they are attracted).

In my opinion, I think it is a bad idea for a competitor to use this forum to knock their competition.

[GREGK]

Jack- I sent you a PM as per your request.