TverRomance

[KenC]

ConnerVt
?????? Not sure what you are talking about,never made a comment to you, maybe you should mind your own business.

JB
For the record, I haven't spent a dime with TverRomance in over a year.  Funny, Natasha has still been nice to me.  One of the reason why I continue to post nice things about Marc and Natasha is because of the way they have treated both my girlfriend and I.  It is not about the money with these guys.  They care more about the couples they are dealing with.  Both companies have gone out of their for both of us.  That is what burns me is guys like you make comments based on nothing but your opinion.  Then you have the nerve to insult someone.

Hey I would love for you to insult me to my face, but I am sure it is easier you to throw out stupid comments on a board.  BTW I will be in TVER the last week in November.

Mikey, Mikey Mikey,
You are waaay off base with the two highlighted comments, kind sir.  As a member here (and quite respected one too) Conner certainly has a right and the privilege to enter into any discussion he sees fit.  Just like you.  You have no special pass to participate in this thread and I believe that Conner did actually meet his fine wife in Tver, so his opinion is very relevant.  So too is jb's opinion even if he has never been to Tver or even participated with an agency.  He has participated in this and other forums and by virtue of that time spent, has acquired a tremendous amount of information besides having a most logical take on things.  You, dear Mike, do not have the right to say who can or cannot particpate in this discussion.  You can only control if you choose to participate.  Not every poster is going to agree with you, so get over yourself.
KenC

[KenC]

Having actually dealt with Marc.....I think I know him a little better. To say that everyone involved in this business is only in it for the money....is true......to a certain extent. Its a business. Businesses (hopefully) make money. Where I take exception.......is the statement that "nobody" cares whether you find a woman or not. You and I have had many discussions over the years about what would constitute a "good" agency. I really felt, in Tver, there were many folks at LTP who really did "care" about me......and my success. Were there folks associated with the business......who could care less ............and spoke behind my back (in Russian).....yes. When you make the statement that "nobody" cares.....if you are not successfull.....you will just keep coming back....and spend more money.......just does not make good business sense (speaking as a business owner with 25 years experience). Anyone with a business knows....pleased customers are the best advertisement.........money "can't" buy. If I were sucessfull (matched).....and had friends, aquaintences, relatives who were interested........they would get a "refferal" from me. Yes you could be the type of business that "milks" every dime from each customer.......but without significant success (matches, in this case).......that well would eventually run dry. I know of at least one agency owner who actually "loves" his business.....and really cares about his employees......and his clients success.....and it shows. In our many discussions on the topic.....I even toyed with the idea of starting an agency myself. I've helped more than a few guys find matches......and even convinced one guy......he had already found his match.....but had'nt quite figured it out  

The process is so interesting to me......I think I would "love" the work.......dealing with customers......one on one. A forum like this board interesting.......back when the RWG was young. The majority of the folks posting cared more about "what" to do to be successful in this process. You were intimately aware of each posters "agenda".
Those that were wasting everyone's time......eventually got bored......and left. Now the boards are full of wannabees, potstirers, trolls......... If I were Dan.......I would'nt let threads turn into flame fests..............like this one.

Although I met Natasha in Tver.....and my impression was possitive.........I think the original topic was whether or not "Natasha's agency" falsified letter to a client (Maxx).
If the other two agency owners want to continue with their shenanigans......she will be the real winner in this soap opera.......even if guilty. But of course all of the focus is now "off" the main principal in this controversy.........Tver Romance........and the issue of letters to a client.

Capt B

Capt B, jb and others,
As I am sure this thread is reaching it's timely death, I will start a new thread in the Experienced section.  It will be titled "The Perfect Agency."   Maybe it is time to turn all this negative energy into something positive.  Let's discuss how a perfect agency should be structured keeping in mind that it should also be a profitable agency too.  Come post and let us know your thoughts.
KenC

[acrzybear]

Marc

I appreciate you going easy on me, I don't think I could take the full force of your anger    (since I am such a delicate little petunia)

But in all honesty you know nothing about alot of the members on this forum and yet you make a generalization such as this?

"O.K. I am an oakey and you are nothing but red necks who will see the truth one day. You all deserve each other!

good buy"

 How do you expect to sway people to your point of view if you insult them? Or put forth the image of an honest upstanding business man if you're slinging mud?

 Obviously there's significant history between you and Richard and I would just say the two of you should agree to disagree and go about your business of helping others meet their potential mate.

   That's just the thought of an "uneducated redneck" 

Yep this venue should definitely be placed in the Jerry Springer section, I think I saw that wild weasel bathing suit site around here somewhere
 

[Bruno]

I wonder JB what is your agenda in this witch hunt?

The same agenda that a lot of people here... knowing the truth !!!

One more sample Bruno was riped off by an agency who paid the price I did!

Marc, since we are in a "science fiction" story, can you explain me your quote above... I have never use a agency expect my own agency ( specialy build for seek a bride, never better serve that by himself )... Do you mean that i was ripped off by myself ?

The only problem i have know with other agency was due to concurrence... they was not likingthe growing free agency... in the first stage, they have attack the host server ( who lead to down time ), e-mail box with virus ( obligate to quit windows and use Linux for more security )... the final stage was the end of my site, when they have begin write directly to my ladies ( very simple since the contact information of girls was visible for all )and advice them to quit my site... in place of delete several girls each day, i have choose to delete all in one time...

But in the global, i was not ripped... same if i was free for customer, the money generated by the publicity link ( hotel booking, translator, flower, etc ) have generate enough money for compensate the expense... simply not enough hours in the day for compensate the extra charge of work due to malpratice from some other...

I especially liked the part where Marc said he fired the office girls to protect his own job.  That showed real management skills and leadership.

And a few page ago, some have say that American business was more ethical that Russian one... until now, only TR ( who is a russian business ) have not ( yet ) attack other business... And if i good remember, the owner of TR is a ex-office girl from Marc... same if she have make something bad at the begin ( story of the stolen database ), i can understand it like a reveange for the "good" treatment in the American business...

Be honest, until now, Russian seem more ethic that the American one !

Edit : Finally reach the end of these topic... almost 5 page in one night... advice for newbies : if you visit Tver in short time, beware that insurance agency don't cover you for receiving bullet, due to the civil war between the local marriage agency... Visit to your own risk...

[mike15]

Hey Ken C
I was referring to the quote he highlighted, referring the insult JB loobed at me.  Of course he has every right to enter into this pissing match/witch hunt.  I have no issue with him, just wondering why he made reference to to me.  My question to JB that Conner attacked me on was...would you insult me to my face.  Hey I have been called a dummy and a fool.  I am not sure if any of the gentleman on this board would make either comment to my face.

Listen to all the Gentleman, I do not wish to get into a pissing match with any of you guys.  I consider us all in the same Fraternity (Dudes with Russian wives and/or girlfriends).  SO let's cool it for a second.  We have gotten way off the point.  I feel every right to defend Natasha @TR and Marc @ LTP.  Both companies have been wonderful to me.  For the record, I worked with Natasha from July 04 - Jan 06.  I wrote to 20 girls over that time, maybe 100 letters  and 2 trips.  Sure she charged me, but it was a small price to pay.  In fact when my relationship went sour with my first GF, she spent hours on the phone with us.  I guess I am lucky and able to pay for this service as it was well worth it.  I will not argue or defend some of the allegations.  All I can say is that 20 or so girls I know are real, and there is no reason for her to do anything un-ethical or illegal.  If she did that is between her and her competitors.

Regarding LTF, I like Marc, unfortunately he has gotton off the point about hie fight with Richard.  One thing about Nadya (his office manager), I would do anything for her.  She is a great person, I had a problem over the summer.  Long story, I was in Turkey and my girlfriend was stuck at the Moscow airport with a dead cell phone.  She helped my girlfriend and I out late in the evening on a Friday night.  She cares about us and money never entered the conversation.

JB, you found your love without using an agency, well that is great.  Most guys (myself included) need a full service agency.  LTP and TR are both excellent companies. 

One final thought, this forum is an excellent place for guys like us to share information (especially newbies).  I think it is sad that Richard and Jack, use this forum to knock their competition. 

Gentleman, have a good day, this is my last post.  IF you feel the need to argue with me, go ahead as I will not respond....

Mike  A Fool in love and King of the Dummies

[ConnerVT]

ConnerVt
?????? Not sure what you are talking about,never made a comment to you, maybe you should mind your own business.

Just because I hadn't posted in the previous 20-odd pages before this, doesn't mean that it isn't my business.  I'm a member of this discussion forum, and felt the need to discuss how contradictory your statements on insults were.  Telling me to basically STFU is just another telling statement on your part.

[Shadow]

24 pages of people talking to themselves.

Natasha has written some 'commercial' posts but never responded to the questions. Maybe because she was unable to find them among the repeated rants. Probably because she had no intention or need to adress them as all others were busy making fools of themselves.

In the end this whole thread seems to have no value, as no conclusions can be reached other than that all involved have made mistakes in the past.

[Son of Clyde]

I am staying out of this discussion except to post a link that should help Marc and many of us (including myself).


 http://writing2.richmond.edu/writing/wweb/conford.html

[TexasBoar]

 

[TexasBoar]

I vote that Natasha is the winner of this thread.

She's slyly avoided giving a meaningful response to any question, yet somehow she's stayed out of the pissing match.  Now, the posters have gotten so ticked at one another that there is talk of locking the thread down without Natasha ever had to answer:

1.  Did you or did you not steal LTP's database?
2.  Did you or did you not falsify the letters to Maxx?

I still don't have a dog in this fight, lol, but I'm wildly entertained by it all nonetheless.  

Even so, being a logical man, I feel constrained to point out:

1.  There is a HUGE difference between stealing a database and stealing clients . . . so which is it? Is Natasha accused of downloading the actual, coded database and reinstalling it on her new site, TR, or did she just call a bunch of the women she had dealt with at LTP and ask them to join her new venture?

EVERY good salesperson keeps a file of "their" customers . . . heck, when my hairstylist started her own salon I followed her there! So there's a huge difference, imho, between "stealing a database" and "stealing clients."
One's unethical . . . one's just business.  Dog eat dog and all that.

2. Maxx has, in this thread alone, said two very different things about that letter: one, that Natasha wrote it, and two, that Natasha convinced Svetlana to write it.  Again . . . one's unethical, hugely unethical in fact.  And the other's just business.  

And Maxx hasn't really been all that forthcoming about replying to Natasha's question---DID he ask Svetlana about it? What did SHE say about it? DID he keep corresponding with and calling her for a month after the "letter incident?" Why?

As for my take on the whole thing . . . Rostov-na-Donu's looking better all the time.  

~Boar

[SANDRO43]

Well, it looks as if, after 24 gruelling rounds, the contestants have retired to their ring corners and are taking a breather. The referee is also having a rest .

Maybe in this welcome pause we may see some sanity reappearing in this thread .

[Marc Dayton]

Brief explanation

I was asked to do this so I am going to use spell check and tell you all why I am so upset over this post.

13 years ago I feel in Love with Tver and the people in Tver that includes Natasha Deeva, and 100’s of others.
I gave my life to LTP, and am vary proud to say I have over a hundred children in this world, with the help of Natasha Deeva and many others that were part of the staff of LTP.

When I get calls telling me someone is out to destroy someone I care about I am going to get just a bit upset, and I am going to let that person know it.

I don’t care how bad I look I will protect my family no matter how bad I look. Try to understand 13 years of my life living in and working in a city and business I Loved.

Many people have come to Tver to open agencies, and many bad things have happened to many men that have used some of these agencies. 13 years is a Long time dealing with the good and the bad it takes its tool on you when you see men get scammed it takes a bit out of you deal with it a 1000 times and you get jaded.

I have had men over the years in tears crying over the phone I have Sean some men go crazy that includes me sometimes as well.
If all of you can put yourself in my shoes for a day I think you would understand why I go bit nuts from time to time.

This has turn into a total Love hate relationship for me, and maybe its time for me to move on but each time I pick up one of many children that came from one of are marriages, and my 7 year old I know why I stay in the LTP service.

Over the years yes part me is vary bitter, and any one that knows me will tell you I were my feelings on my chest for the world to see.

I do have a simple background at 17yrs I was in the army, and some how got a GED. I have never had the money to go to collage or the family to help, and at the time I went to school dyslexic was not something schools new anything about so I just live with it!

So for those of you who want to slam me for my spelling and typing? I am sorry I was not as lucky in life as you were I don’t have the education you have, but I think I will leave my small mark in Life, and in a way have done More with my life then expected.

Hey one day one of my kids me grow up to be governor if Arnold did it why not president

Good luck to any man looking for his RW, and may you find the same joy in your life’s as my 7 year old has given me.

[tims]

I still don't have a dog in this fight, lol, but I'm wildly entertained by it all nonetheless.  

Even so, being a logical man, I feel constrained to point out:

1.  There is a HUGE difference between stealing a database and stealing clients . . . so which is it? Is Natasha accused of downloading the actual, coded database and reinstalling it on her new site, TR, or did she just call a bunch of the women she had dealt with at LTP and ask them to join her new venture?

EVERY good salesperson keeps a file of "their" customers . . . heck, when my hairstylist started her own salon I followed her there! So there's a huge difference, imho, between "stealing a database" and "stealing clients."
One's unethical . . . one's just business.  Dog eat dog and all that.

Finally, someone gets it.  I still can't believe how worked up KenC, jb and others get over a perceived "stolen database".  Please.  I followed my hairstylist too Boar, through like three different places.  SS.  Did my hairstylist "steal" me?  Like heII she did, I went by my own choice.  Which is another fact that has been left out of the discussion thus far: these women went to Natasha's agency on their own accord.  I'm sure that she didn't exactly hold a gun to their head and say "come to TverRomance or I shoot"!  These women are people and people tend to think and decide for themselves.  So shuttup about the stupid database.  Much more concerning to me is what is happening now.  Are these women real?  Are they available?  What are their intentions and why have they been in the agency so long without finding a man?  You know, things that matter to a man who is considering using TR as an agency and all that.  And don't even start about how "ethics matter", of course they do, I'm not disputing that.  What I am disputing is this silly notion of a "stolen database", which isn't even applicable and therefore doesn't speak to Natasha's ethics.

2. Maxx has, in this thread alone, said two very different things about that letter: one, that Natasha wrote it, and two, that Natasha convinced Svetlana to write it.  Again . . . one's unethical, hugely unethical in fact.  And the other's just business.  

And Maxx hasn't really been all that forthcoming about replying to Natasha's question---DID he ask Svetlana about it? What did SHE say about it? DID he keep corresponding with and calling her for a month after the "letter incident?" Why?

Very well said again Boar.  I am glad that someone else sees the flaw in Maxx's slaw too.

As for my take on the whole thing . . . Rostov-na-Donu's looking better all the time.  

Funny, but heck let's not kid ourselves.  I feel comfortable saying that they have the same kinda stuff going on there too, maybe worse, it just isn't as publicized as this Tver soap opera by chance happens to be.

Tim

[KenC]

Finally, someone gets it.  I still can't believe how worked up KenC, jb and others get over a perceived "stolen database".  Please.  I followed my hairstylist too Boar, through like three different places.  SS.  Did my hairstylist "steal" me?  Like heII she did, I went by my own choice.  Which is another fact that has been left out of the discussion thus far: these women went to Natasha's agency on their own accord.  I'm sure that she didn't exactly hold a gun to their head and say "come to TverRomance or I shoot"!  These women are people and people tend to think and decide for themselves.  So shuttup about the stupid database.  Much more concerning to me is what is happening now.  Are these women real?  Are they available?  What are their intentions and why have they been in the agency so long without finding a man?  You know, things that matter to a man who is considering using TR as an agency and all that.  And don't even start about how "ethics matter", of course they do, I'm not disputing that.  What I am disputing is this silly notion of a "stolen database", which isn't even applicable and therefore doesn't speak to Natasha's ethics.

Very well said again Boar.  I am glad that someone else sees the flaw in Maxx's slaw too.

Funny, but heck let's not kid ourselves.  I feel comfortable saying that they have the same kinda stuff going on there too, maybe worse, it just isn't as publicized as this Tver soap opera by chance happens to be.

Tim

Tim,
You obviously have never owned a business where you put your blood, sweat and tears into developing a customer/client base or you would not say such foolish things.  What about Doc Woody?  He only paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy that data base.  Do you suppose he is as flippant as you about it being stolen?  BTW, even quality hair salons require their stylists to sign a document whereby they cannot steal the any customer from the salon if they leave.  If you got your haircut at a better shop, you would know this.
KenC

[BillyB]

 What about Doc Woody?  He only paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy that data base.  Do you suppose he is as flippant as you about it being stolen?  BTW, even quality hair salons require their stylists to sign a document whereby they cannot steal the any customer from the salon if they leave.

I agree, spending that kind of money for the info, one would be a fool not to make employees sign an agreement from using or acquiring that info for their or other people's/competitor's benefit harming the company. Also when Doc Woody sold the agency, there must have been a contract to protect Marc Dayton's purchase of the company in full, not partially or not to share it with potential or future customers. RW's private contact info should not be changing hands as easily as one changes salons to follow a stylist to get a haircut. My name and address is registered with the Department of Licensing but I would be upset if it was stolen or transfered to another person/company without my consent.

tims, one issue you keep bringing up is that TR has many old profiles and the women may not be real or available as advertised. Can you prove that?

[BC]

Which is another fact that has been left out of the discussion thus far: these women went to Natasha's agency on their own accord.  I'm sure that she didn't exactly hold a gun to their head and say "come to TverRomance or I shoot"! 

Actually Tim, it was brought up..

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2649.msg52437#msg52437

but largely ignored.

Tim,
You obviously have never owned a business where you put your blood, sweat and tears into developing a customer/client base or you would not say such foolish things.  What about Doc Woody?  He only paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy that data base.  Do you suppose he is as flippant as you about it being stolen?  BTW, even quality hair salons require their stylists to sign a document whereby they cannot steal the any customer from the salon if they leave.  If you got your haircut at a better shop, you would know this.
KenC

Ken, I really hate to be contrary.. especially with you..  but reality is that databases are quite valuable if the contents are exclusive. 

A stylist here in IT would have no legal problems and would NEVER refuse a customer who walks through the door.  In fact I myself was a 'crossover' when the guy that usually cut my hair opened his own shop..  It was the 'true' service provider I sought, not the sign over the door.

[Marc Dayton]

Also when Doc Woody sold the agency, there must have been a contract to protect Marc Dayton's purchase of the company in full, not partially or not to share it with potential or future customers. RW's private contact info
=================================================

First there has never been a contract with me or any other staff member of LTP. No interputer from day 1 of LTP has any kind agreement in writing.

Second this is strange LTP over the years was blasted for acting like these girls are are personal data base. My question to all of you is a simple one if I can get over it why can't you?

The part of the data base that you would think might be a problum Is the mens e-mails, and contact info, but never did are men call us and say Marc what is going on TR is sending me e-mails who or what are they.

I just don't see this there is far worst things that has happend to LTP then the data base, and even if she did steel it she would have beed the 3 person to take it. Not counting the others that have tride to buy it or steel it.

Ken C I must ask you this when BeHappy did this I cant think of one e-mail or post from you about it good or bad. why are you so affended By TR, but not BH?

sorry Ken but what gives here why the double standard

[KenC]

BC,
If the contents of the list were exclusive, then there would be not as much of a problem as there is because they are nonexclusive.  There would be repercussions to the girls that jumped ship as well as Natash if they had signed an exclusive agreement.  It is th effort of putting together such a list that is valuable and that is what was stolen.

Years ago I bought a customer list from one of my competitors.  He was arrogant enough to think it wouldn't hurt him too much.  I picked up thousands of customers from it and he shortly went out of business.

Picture having a list of hundreds of women in Tver that were listed with LTP with just their names and phone numbers.  Also keep in mind that Natasha and her friends knew and had previous contact with most of these women.  How difficult would it be to convince them to also list their profiles with a new company?  Not too difficult as I see it.  LTP was foolish to not have better controls in place to stop such a thing from happening.  But given Marc's caviler attitude, he probably was responsible for it's safe keeping.
KenC

[Marc Dayton]

But given Marc's caviler attitude, he probably was responsible for it's safe keeping.


Know you want to take a shot at me KEN talk about cheep I myslef had nothing to do with keeping the data base.

Ken why was it O.K. with you for BH to steel the data base, and know when I ask you about it you take a shoot at me. At one time you were so pro behing BH.

Ken I think your one hell of a good man I just don't understand this, and yes your takeing a shoot at me makes me wonder why the hell I work in this Biz.

[KenC]

Also when Doc Woody sold the agency, there must have been a contract to protect Marc Dayton's purchase of the company in full, not partially or not to share it with potential or future customers. RW's private contact info
=================================================

First there has never been a contract with me or any other staff member of LTP. No interputer from day 1 of LTP has any kind agreement in writing.

Second this is strange LTP over the years was blasted for acting like these girls are are personal data base. My question to all of you is a simple one if I can get over it why can't you?

The part of the data base that you would think might be a problum Is the mens e-mails, and contact info, but never did are men call us and say Marc what is going on TR is sending me e-mails who or what are they.

I just don't see this there is far worst things that has happend to LTP then the data base, and even if she did steel it she would have beed the 3 person to take it. Not counting the others that have tride to buy it or steel it.

Ken C I must ask you this when BeHappy did this I cant think of one e-mail or post from you about it good or bad. why are you so affended By TR, but not BH?

sorry Ken but what gives here why the double standard

Marc,
I had no knowledge that Be Happy did such a thing.  I never even thought about stealing the men client's list.  That is as despicable as stealing the women's list, maybe more so.  LTP paid to develop that list through their website and sales staff.
KenC

[BillyB]

 My question to all of you is a simple one if I can get over it why can't you?

It doesn't affect me so there is nothing for me or others to forgive or get over. We just want yes or no answers so we can properly help the next guy that asks about Tver. I think next time someone asks about Tver, I'll just send them to this link so they can make a decision for themself what's going.

[KenC]

But given Marc's caviler attitude, he probably was responsible for it's safe keeping.


Know you want to take a shot at me KEN talk about cheep I myself had nothing to do with keeping the data base.

Ken why was it O.K. with you for BH to steel the data base, and know when I ask you about it you take a shoot at me. At one time you were so pro behing BH.

Ken I think your one hell of a good man I just don't understand this, and yes your takeing a shoot at me makes me wonder why the hell I work in this Biz.

Marc,
I am sorry that you take what I wrote as a "shot."  But I find it rather curious that you don't see the stealing of such lists as more offensive than you seem to here.  Another curious comment you made before was that you had to fire some interpreters to save your own job.

I have always told everyone that would listen, about the virtues and integrity of LTP and you are responsible for most of that.  I just cannot understand why a company man like you would not be upset about someone stealing what you and your company and worked so hard to build.
KenC

[Marc Dayton]

Ken it was a well know fact about BH maybe you missed it?

I have blead LTP for 13 years many have called me the back bone of LTP. I care vary much about the blood swet put into LTP by all who have worked for us.

Trust me on one thing if she had the Data base it came from 7 years of working with men like you. Each interputer has something like a black book full of girls numbers in the program.

The reason they have the numbers is so they can call these girls when there not in the office to help you, and set up meetings after hours. If we stoped interputers from haveing black books you would not have has a service in your best intress, but a service that was in LTP best intress.

So we are damen if we do and we would be damed by the men that use are service if we did not let Interputers call the girls for you.

[BC]

I think Marc's post clarifies the database issue quite well.

[KenC]

I think Marc's post clarifies the database issue quite well.

BC,
Sorry, but no where does Marc say Natasha didn't end up with LTP's data base.  Note what Marc said (and didn't say):
"Trust me on one thing if she had the Data base it came from 7 years of working with men like you".
KenC