TverRomance

[SANDRO43]

Fellows, this has become a pointless tug-of-war between two irreconcilable points of view.

Why don't y'all heed the advice of the immortal Ronnie Corbett ?
"Dress warmly and take a walk in the fog" ?

[Admin]

Here is what I am going to do with this topic.

1 - I am going to close it for now.

2 - I am going to invite Natasha to reply.

3 - Given sufficient time for a reply, I will then ask a couple of the Mods to take a look and prepare a synopsis (which is NOT the same as a Judgement).

4 - Will then post the results.

Otherwise - this is just going to continue to go nowhere.

Topic is now closed (for now).

- Dan

[Natasha_Deeva]

Hello members of the board,

To avoid repeating myself, I will just say that I made a post in Introductions and Ice-breaker section which makes a good beginning to what will be said next in this post.

First on my list are some posts by Maxx regarding supposedly a phoney letter he has received through our service. 

It did not take me long to understand who Maxx is when I read the few first posts he made to this thread as I remember and know all my clients, both male and female. And it doesn’t take long to see the purpose of making all the fuss on the board that Richard and Maxx have created.  However, at first I could not understand why a person would mention something today regarding receiving a supposedly phoney letter if this supposed reception took place 20 months ago, in January of 2005. However, correspondence between Richard and David generously supplied by him to the board members on page 8 very well reveals that it serves the same purpose.

when I do go public on RWG & launch my website, you can testify that you have  been going through my agency for this period of time & writing your lady through me but that TR has been sending you letters that your lady has not been writing &  that they are just as crooked as BH.

(Richard's letter in Maxx's post)

I located all the letters exchanged between David and Svetlana through our service. We keep and store all the files, both word.docs on the computer and handwritten letters in a box, as well as all letters and messages taken over the telephone. I personally do not find it very ethical to post personal correspondence on a public board, so I will try to avoid it, but I want the members to know that if this becomes the only way to prove that our agency and me personally are being treated unfairly, I suppose an exception could be made, and this subject will be closed once and for good. If need arises and if it is permitted by the board rules, I will post these letters, so that the board members can compare the style of the letters, (and whatever else Richard and David suggest needs to be compared) and decide who sent a phoney letter to who. And I only hope that it will not turn into something more ugly than it already is. I do hope that Svetlana would not mind, since 1) she is indeed a good friend of mine (which also proves the absurdity of some insinuations made in Maxx’s and Richard’s posts) 2) she doesn’t have to care about any negative publicity because she has already met her special guy through our service and is getting ready to go to America.

Also, after the supposedly phoney letter David had a phone conversation with Svetlana as a full member of our service. I suppose instead of jumping to conclusions based on what Richard was telling him, he himself could have very well asked Svetlana herself about this letter, since it was such a big concern for him. He also should have made a recording of her answer.

I do not have a problem if someone chooses a different service over ours, for any reason. No questions asked. I didn’t have a problem with that when David and I spoke on the telephone 20 months ago, which I did let David know. I told him that Svetlana and I are friends and it is impossible that the letter from her is a phoney. I was shocked that someone would think that. At that moment I didn’t know that Richard was the reason behind David’s opinion regarding the letter in question. Since David said that he is not intending to develop a huge issue out of it (and I tend to believe a man when he says he would do (or not do) something), I decided not to argue with him trying to prove who is right and who is wrong, defend myself against any accusations or try to convert him into my “faith” so to say. I generally prefer to stay out of arguments. Especially if I sense they might turn into something nasty. I choose to let people go with their choices and their opinions rather than change them, whatever they might be. I find it below my self respect to try to prove the point that is obvious. I prefer to think that if it is not obvious to a person, it is better to have nothing to do with this person. Anyway, all David’s requests were met, his profile was taken off the catalogue, we removed ourselves from the communication between him and Svetlana and since then we never heard from each other, until this moment, when David decided he no longer needed to keep the word.

I do not mean to sound rude, but I am glad, David, that you have a very clear recording of our conversation, maybe you should listen to it again, to refresh your memory from 20 months ago prior to posting negative things on public boards today.

Gentlemen, I truly hope that my post won’t stir another wave of emotions. I want to make clear that I wouldn’t want this to develop into a fight, or worse. I am just sharing my take on the situation. Also, my friends and customers recommended I should do that, just so members and guests of this board have listened to both sides and do not have to make conclusions based on one sided opinion.

I am leaving the board at this for now. Until tomorrow.

Thank you for your attention.

[jinx13]

Natasha,

  I don't know anything about this disagreement that you are referring too, just what I have read in this thread, but I must say it's very commendable that you join this board to answer these questions and face the critics.

 I am sure you have better things to do with your time, but it shows that you are a responsible agency owner, and care about your clients, and of course the reputation of your business.

 I'm also impressed with the mature and diplomatic way in which you are handling these accusations, not to mention that you write better in English than most English speaking people do!    Welcome to the forum, and good luck with this debate, you will need it, some guys have way too much time on their hands!  - David

[Maxx2]

January 27th 2005 was a red letter (special) day for me. I get TWO letters on the same day from a woman who was very busy. She was setting up her tailoring business out of a store front with the help of her family. Each of these TWO letters covers the same subject only with some details being different.  What's up with that???

Here they are in their entirety only with Svetlana's ID number and my e-mail address edited out. The first is from TverRomance and the second is from "Angels Abroad" a name Richard was considering using.

Date: 27 Jan 2005
>>      From: SVETLANA
>>      Dear David,
>>
>>      I want to start wit telling you that I am really sorry for not
>> writing
>> to you for such a long time. You might have thought that I forgot about
>> you.
>> No, I didn't, I think about you very often. But in every day routine I
>> just
>> don't always have a chance to stop and think. Life is passing by taking
>> the
>> best years and unfortunately we don't think about it until it's too late.
>>
>>      David, thank you for telling about your job, it was very interesting
>> to know what exactly you do. Our profession and especially yours is not
>> very
>> common and it's so interesting that we got together at all. With your
>> every
>> letter I am more and more convinced that we have very much in common. The
>> way we think, the way we treat different things, our views on family and
>> life and more. I hope our personal meeting will add to my positive
>> opinion
>> about you and our acquaintance.
>>
>>      David, you asked me about how much English I know. I leant English
>> before going to the US and could speak it pretty good. Of course I had
>> problems discussing serious issues but I knew enough to get around
>> without
>> help. I went to the US as a fianc?e and had serious intentions to be with
>> this man but he appeared to be different from what he was like in Russia.
>> So
>> I left back home and now without practice I have forgotten much of what I
>> used to know. But I think it will be not very difficult for me to
>> remember.
>>
>>      Pavlik is fine and says Hi to you. He had great time at my parents',
>> he likes spending time there. I celebrated the New Year's with my close
>> friends. That day at work was very busy and I was very tired. At the end
>> of
>> the working day all my colleagues and our boss wished each other all the
>> best in the new year. When I came home I had some rest, put on my new
>> dress
>> that I had made for myself specially for this event and went to my
>> friends.
>> We had much fun and I was glad I joined them. We let off fireworks, went
>> outside as the weather was really great. I also called to Rzhev from time
>> to
>> time to see how Pavel and my family were. When the chimes were striking
>> midnight I made wishes but I would like to keep them a secret otherwise
>> they
>> may not come true.
>>
>>      David, I will finish here and hope you don't get offended that I
>> can't
>> reply to your letters right away.
>>
>>      Best wishes, Svetlana



----- Original Message -----
From: "Angels Abroad" <angelsabroad@gmail.com>
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 1:19 PM
Subject: Letter from Svetlana for David


Dear David!

Thank you very much for your letters, flowers and your attention. I've
thought much about us and our future. You know, it's my nature to
think about my future.

I'm very sorry that I haven't written to you for so long, I was very
busy, then I was out of town for 4 days. I don't work at the jewelry
shop any more. The only thing that I didn't like about that job was
that I overworked and didn't get anything for extra hours. Now I'm
going to start up my own sewing business. It'll take much time,
patience and money. Now it's in the stage of repairs.

You asked me about my trip to California. I wasn't even engaged to
him. In Russia everything was great: much attention, tenderness,
kindness… As soon as we stepped on the boarding bridge, everything
changed completely. He became jealous of my son, but I just tried to
explain to him what he could do in the plane and the things that he
shouldn't do. It was his first flight. The seats were at different
ends of the plane. It is reasonable that I took a seat near my son. He
got offended. At that moment I thought myself very lonely and
helpless. But I knew that my sister and my friend were in America, and
they were ready to help me. Having lived 4 days with the man I thought
I would spend my whole life, I had no doubts: I wanted to come back
home.
The first thing I was surprised at and disappointed with:
For the first two days I had a terrible headache, but he insisted on
our going to his friends to show me as a doll to his friends, giving
me some pills. First of all, I'm a woman and I needed some time to
recover, only then I could meet with his friends, whom I'd never seen,
I'd never known, and should show them that I respect them all.
(besides, I didn't know their language).
Then I had to do the house, there was his ex-wife's underwear and
pictures in the clothes-press in my son's room.
I think there's no need to list all those unpleasant things.

I'm a very patient and understanding person, and I'm sure that
everything will be okay.  It was in the past. I'm sure that my future
husband will be very happy with me.

Pavel says hello to you!

Have a good day!

My best wishes,
Svetlana


What's interesting about this thread is that it really shows the inability of some to use logic. As I have always maintained for many who have had successful marriages to RW it can only be from their being lucky. If they can't see what's going on here how could they ever figure out a scam being worked on them?

David "Maxx"

[jinx13]

Maxx,  sounds to me like she was writing to someone else too, and the agency accidentally sent you both letters. I could be wrong, but that seems the simple answer. These do not seem like scammer letters at all, they seem very personal to me, and written by the person that these things happened to.

 I understand why you would think it's weird to get two letters on the same day, but to start accusing the agency of writing the letters seems like an overreaction to me.

[Maxx2]

Maxx,  sounds to me like she was writing to someone else too, and the agency accidentally sent you both letters.

TverRomance sent me the first letter and "she" mentions my having an unusual profession. I am a gold refiner. Do you know about this unusual profession? Don't feel bad if you don't as most people have no idea what a gold refiner does. This letter was definately meant for me. But by who?

Both letters cover her going to America from a question I asked her. Why go over this twice on the same day? Then there is the nitty gritty and very believable details in the letter I got through Richard. And the one from TR being vauge as if written by someone who didn't actually live it.

Then in the TR letter "she" says: 
"David, thank you for telling about your job, it was very interesting
>> to know what exactly you do. Our profession and especially yours is not
>> very
>> common and it's so interesting that we got together at all"

The upbeat "Our profession" comment by "her" seems strange as we no longer have this in common anymore.

The letter through Richard on the same day she says:

"I don't work at the jewelry
shop any more. The only thing that I didn't like about that job was
that I overworked and didn't get anything for extra hours. Now I'm
going to start up my own sewing business."

The TR letter makes no mention of this job change. Did the person who actually wrote it know about this job change?

Unless Richard is lying and I very seriously doubt that he said Sveltana denied writing the TR letter. She was very clear about that.

So what am I to conclude?

I decided not to go public about this because at first I feared for Svetlana. Before TR I had used 2 agencies. One of these agency owners a RW put fear into the woman I was writing to. She told me she was being threatening by this woman about giving me up so they could put me on to one of their partner's daughter's college friend an Elena B.. Also it happened to my friend Howard's wife Elza who had to pay for his letters that he already paid for or they would delete them right before Elza's eyes. So when Natasha Deever sent me a phoney letter then called Svetlana to her office and sent me a thank you note for flowers that I had Richard deliver what was I to think? I thought "games". I told Natasha to back off and pull my profile and I wouldn't make any trouble for her. My experience had taught me to be firm when dealing with these women then keep out of their way.

Maxx

[Bruno]

All these story lead to nothing... two letter send by two agency... each letter seem be normal... if one of the letter is a false one, only one person can certify it... Svetlana...

Really, i don't see why a woman cannot send two letter with almost the same content via two agency... specialy since Maxx have used both agency for communicate with her...

I think that we are making a big fire with nothing, that the two letter are real letter...

[Maxx2]

Bruno, you are an idiot.

Maxx

[BC]

Bruno, you are an idiot.

Maxx

Maxx,

Your blows are getting quite low..

I think all this RW stuff has shortened your legs considerably.

I believe all Bruno was trying to point out is that is that a true seeker would have moved on long ago and not replace his quest with a witchhunt.

[Rvrwind]

Maxx, your getting hyperventilated, relax.
It don't even matter, nobody cares or really wants to change a damn thing.
Nice choice in exerpts from my email, but you should also note that I didn't do what I stated & never brought it up or got involved until this thread, mostly because it happned more recently to another fellow who is a lurker but has never posted. However I am going to ask him to post his experience. I won't even bother getting 'D' to post how he got fleeced.
Anybody who believes this is an isolated incident or that a leopard can change its spots is an idiot.
Its quite obvious from the replies & from what I have seen as the trend in this industry is that although everybody wants honest agencies & honest relations they are not prepared to do what it takes to achieve that goal. All talk & no action as someone once said.
For every guy that doesn't get burned, 10 others do, but what do you care as long as it isn't you. Typical human nature & typical of agencies who use these tactics. But no matter, it will never be resolved until you, the clients, grow a pair & start boycotting less than moral agencies, but my goodnes you might miss ot on a piece of fluff, Holy Cow, can't do that! So knowig that these agencies can act with immpunity & continue to grow & make money, they do so & knowing you have no regard for your fellow man well that is something that has been obvious from the get go & only facilitates the ease in wich they operate.
Natasha go for it, obiously by what has been happening & written here you will grow & prosper. You can come on here & spin things anyway you like & these guys will swallow it lock, stock & barrel. But alwyas know that there are those of us who know the truth of how you got started in this busness & the things that go on behind the scenes. I'm sure Marc could speak to your beginnings far better than me as it was his company you stole from & his company you misrepresented to recruit the ladies into your program. Mind you I know he has been trying to forget that incident but it still eats away at the core.

What possesses these people to have to cheat all the time? I am truly upset about this as I was really hoping Natasha was running a legit operation & now I find out otherwise.

I also wrote this in one of those letters to Maxx, but everybody seemed not to notice. Even knowing then that you had started your buisness in a less than legit manner, I was willing to let it slide & still hoped you wouldn't go the route you did.
And Maxx, don't be posting my personal emails for public scruitiny. Not that there iis anything in them that is of any real concern, its just the principal of it. People will always take the worst they can find from it & throw it in your face while totally disregarding any good that was written.
You claim that that letter was not a phoney, I beg to differ. I know bloody well it was & Svetlana herself told me she didn't write it. Gloss it over anyway you want but if its more proof you need maybe I can talk 'W' into telling what happened to him.
'W' I'd really appreciate you stepping up big guy, your story needs to be read. Probably won't change much but might help one or two guys that do have a brain & know how to use it.
The difference is these guys are a long ways away & your sweet voice & sexy accent can convince most of them that the moon is made of gold if thats what you wanted them to believe. However, I live here, I work here, I know what is going on & I don't get swayed by sweet talk & a sexy accent. I been here to llong for that. I know you & I know what your capable of, I have seen it several times & heard about it even more. As they say back home 'You Bu!!$hit your friends & I'll Bu!!$hit my friends, but lets not Bu!!$hit each other.'
Have a nice day!

[BradSTL]

I choose to let people go with their choices and their opinions rather than change them. . .

  Natasha--- you are a delightful and polite RW.

Perhaps you have learned that men can be ***STUBBORN***?

Me?  Moi?  Ya?   nnnnnnnever!!!!

[Bruno]

Bruno, you are an idiot.

Maxx

Why i am an idiot ?

You report these two letter where YOU choose to say that these from TR is phoney... Don't you think that the only person to be able to say if these letter are real is the person who is supposed to have write them ?

So, i am a idiot because i don't trust information given by the two agency and i don't trust your second hand information... These story will never go out of the shadow until these Svetlana confirm that she have never write this letter via TR...

You wish that everybody say "amen" to your argument... you have no evidence that the letter from TR is phoney... only the word of Richard who is a friend of you and who is opposed to TR... Richard say that Svetlana have say to him that these letter was phoney but we have no evidence of this and he is not impartial in these story... he is involved in a concurrent business...

These topic have reach several page of bla-bla without prove something from one side or the other... Somebody is lying but who ? How can members from RWD forge a opinion on several page of wind, without real evidence... only story and no proof...

These topic remember practice of attorney... a lot of speaking for proof nothing...

[jb]

Bruno,

I think what Maxx is referring to here is your practice of not seeing the details here.
You view these posts rather like an oil painting of a subject, while a native speaker sees a photograph.  We see details you do not. 

A point not mentioned here is that a lot of a man's time is wasted if he gets involved with an agency who strings him along with phony letters.  Imagine a man in his late 40's, or early 50's beginning his search, by the time he finally finds the woman he will marry he will have spent a considerable amount of time sorting through a lot of chaff before he finds the kernel of wheat if agencies bog him down with false letters.  For a man at this stage of his life, time is of the essence.  To the agency owner who uses these methods, it represents a few extra dollars, to the victim of this scam, it represents wasted months of his life.  Which is more valuable?

It galls me to see the way some of you men treat posters so differently, Richard is a man with time proved ethics, yet you hold his feet to the fire very closely.  Maxx is a member of long standing credentials, everyone knows he is not just spouting off for the hell of it.  On the other hand, N.D. comes on the board, posts with an avatar of a not unattractive woman, and men fall all over themselves making kissing and sucking noises.  I wonder how her posts would have been accepted had she simply posted under the business name with a gender neutral avatar. 

Maxx mentioned it, and it's true I debated with Spencer over this same issue, he was deriving income from agencies which placed ads and banners on his website.  Regardless of the business ethics of the agency, nothing detrimental was allowed to be said without threat of banishment.  While Dan isn't making money from agencies, I do sense a different attitude when dealing with a woman.  By virtue of being a RW, it seems some men have already assigned her celebrity status around here.

Maybe I read her post wrong, (I don't think so), but what I further find amusing is that N.D. did not deny that her agency sent a phony letter to Maxx.  Rather, she is shocked that this incident is being aired on a discussion board after 20 months, to her way of thinking, that's ancient history.   She alludes to the notion that she can dig up archived letters if pressed to do so, but at no time does she state without equivocation that the exchange did not take place. 

Why is the owner of this agency being held to a different standard?  If Rvr were accused of the same thing, I'll bet you money, the same guys fawning over the TR owner would be after Richard's head.

[KenC]

jb,
You are right on the money here.  I have read and re-read Natasha's post searching for any substance and I gotta tell ya, I didn't find any.  Well written and polite, you betcha, but where's the beef?  This may be the case of a con woman making you like her just enough to forget about the facts.  My read on her post is that Maxx's letters are not phony because:
it happened 20 months ago
Svetlana is Natasha's friend
Richard has motivation to make Natasha look bad
Best of all is that she has proof, but her convenient ethics stops her from sharing it with us.
Pretty damn shaky "evidence" if you ask me given the fact that Svetlana told Maxx (David) that she didn't write the letter!

Yep, Natasha is a lot cuter than Maxx or Richard and her English might even be better, but her facts are a might bit weak.  Like nonexistant at this point.  With all the honest and ethical agencies to choose from, why take a chance on such a slippery one?
KenC

[Bruno]

Bruno,

I think what Maxx is referring to here is your practice of not seeing the details here.
You view these posts rather like an oil painting of a subject, while a native speaker sees a photograph.  We see details you do not. 

Yes, you are right... i don't always capture the exact meaning like a native Englisk speaking people... this is specialy true in short post where people use local expression... a good example is post from Ste... i need make a lot of rechearch for understand him...

But in the case of these topic, with very long post, with all these page writen, it is no place for detail... the picture is enough clear...

A point not mentioned here is that a lot of a man's time is wasted if he gets involved with an agency who strings him along with phony letters.  Imagine a man in his late 40's, or early 50's beginning his search, by the time he finally finds the woman he will marry he will have spent a considerable amount of time sorting through a lot of chaff before he finds the kernel of wheat if agencies bog him down with false letters.  For a man at this stage of his life, time is of the essence.  To the agency owner who uses these methods, it represents a few extra dollars, to the victim of this scam, it represents wasted months of his life.  Which is more valuable?

JB, i am not someone who use agency... mainly because i don't trust them... i was able to organize my quest for a bride by myself, without translator, agency for appartment, for contact, for e-mail, for the trip, etc ... For me, it is the logic way, if i was not able to make it by myself, it simply mean that i am not ready to seek a foreign bride...

But a lot of people who have never travel outside own city wish a foreign bride... some are like newborn and need guidance for the process... they will not use time for learn the "how"... they use agency... People who complain of malpratice from agency are for me responsible of what happen... too much lazy or not enough time for ready themself and become independant... in French, we have a proverb who say : "jamais mieux servi que par soi-mème". It surprise me that some people allow stranger ( agency owner ) to control the seek of a lifepartner... In no case, i go trust somebody other for something so much important...

It galls me to see the way some of you men treat posters so differently, Richard is a man with time proved ethics, yet you hold his feet to the fire very closely.  Maxx is a member of long standing credentials, everyone knows he is not just spouting off for the hell of it.  On the other hand, N.D. comes on the board, posts with an avatar of a not unattractive woman, and men fall all over themselves making kissing and sucking noises.  I wonder how her posts would have been accepted had she simply posted under the business name with a gender neutral avatar. 

Maxx, Richard, N.D. are people that i know via the post here... i know them only in these virtual world but not in the real life... and like a lot of people, i have difficult to trust these virtual world... in all the hot discussion here, we have so much story and so little evidence... very difficult to forge a opinion on this... How much time, yourself in some topic, you ask more information since what is given cannot really lead to a correct analyse of the situation...

Maxx mentioned it, and it's true I debated with Spencer over this same issue, he was deriving income from agencies which placed ads and banners on his website.  Regardless of the business ethics of the agency, nothing detrimental was allowed to be said without threat of banishment.  While Dan isn't making money from agencies, I do sense a different attitude when dealing with a woman.  By virtue of being a RW, it seems some men have already assigned her celebrity status around here.

I think that Dan have a difficult job... normally, he need to be fully neutral... but he is a human and sometime, he express his own opinion... I think that we are not here for comment about him... since the begin of these forum, he have show that he was a good moderator and give us enough freedom...

Maybe I read her post wrong, (I don't think so), but what I further find amusing is that N.D. did not deny that her agency sent a phony letter to Maxx.  Rather, she is shocked that this incident is being aired on a discussion board after 20 months, to her way of thinking, that's ancient history.   She alludes to the notion that she can dig up archived letters if pressed to do so, but at no time does she state without equivocation that the exchange did not take place. 

The more important is that the N.D. post don't prove that her agency is a honest one... it is simply a little more words enough good writed... both Maxx, Richard and N.D. turn around the problem of phony letter without really post a evidence ( same a single one ) who will show that they say the true... and i feel that when the topic will have 100 page, a newbies reading it will not be able to know if TverRomance write really phony letter or not... he will simply see that in Tver, two agency fight each other... and if he need use a agency, he will never use one of these two...

Why is the owner of this agency being held to a different standard?  If Rvr were accused of the same thing, I'll bet you money, the same guys fawning over the TR owner would be after Richard's head.

If Rvr were accused of the same thing, it will have the right to defend himself too... I don't see a double standart existing here... My internet relation with Rvr is enough friendly but these "friendship" don't stop me to ask question when i have doubt... I trust friend but not in a blind way...

[BC]

The board feature that allows one to turn off avatars is nifty.  I find them quite distracting in most cases.

Being already married gives me neither 'bone' or 'chip' to hold, but over time have heard of several agencies named where customer dissatisfaction is so overwhelmingly consistent from a number of sources I tend to believe most of what has been said.

TR is not a name though that really sticks in my head like others, maybe because I don't tend to follow agency discusions that much?.. or did I miss something along the way?

Maybe we're looking at a matter of degree when it comes to busness practices, who knows.. but as long as two sides seem willing to openly discuss, I'm willing to listen.

I kinda admire Richards ethical agency business model.  It's bold in a fuzzy world but in turn has a steep path to success.  As Richard has seen in the past, getting caught up in inter-agency dealings and discourse can be quite tricky and not very productive.  Long term, his business will likely benefit more by distancing himself from the crowd rather than mingling with them in discussions such as this.

Pardon the pun but the only time a cowboy gets his boots dirty is when he gets off his horse.. 

[KenC]

BC,
I hear what you are saying and tend to agree with you, but it has to be maddening for a man of Richard's high ethics to see another agency owner lie through her teeth. (No matter how cute and sweet she might be.)
KenC

[jb]

BC,

Like yourself, I met my wife the old fashioned way, not through an agency.  Since we, as you say, not having a bone to pick or a chip in the pot, perhaps see things differently.  I have never spoken to Rvr so I don't have a personal relationship with him, Maxx (Dave), on the other hand is someone I have.  I have the impression of Maxx as someone who is fair, honest, straight forward, and above all, not a back-biter.  I don't believe for a minute he just fabricated those letters he posted from thin air.   I believe he was sent letters generated by the agency for the sole purpose of keeping him interested and renewing his membership in said agency for another term. 

That's called scamming.

Because I didn't use an agency, I understand the need to court, woo, and romance a woman much more than finding a woman on a MOB site who has already made the decision to marry a foreign man.   In Maxx's case, the letters were getting thin, few and far between, after a few weeks.  For whatever reason Svetlana was either just a flake, or was being encouraged by her friend to restart things as the enrollment period was drawing to a close.   Maxx would have probably arrived at the right conclusion on his own.  No woman with marriage on her mind quits her job and invests her money, and that of her family's, into a new business if she has the possibility to move on to a new and better life abroad.  Simple logic says otherwise.  IMHO, Maxx was wise not to invest the time and money into a Tver trip 20 months ago, had he done so he would have enriched TR considerably, and Svetlana would have dumped him anyway because she didn't have the intent to emigrate in the first place.   

The other TR issue that has not been addressed is how TR came to be in business in the first place.  I well remember the agony Marc Dayton went through right after he bought the LTP agency from Ron Woody, although his posts were very hard to read, when he discovered his database had been gutted by his so-called loyal employees, he was devastated.  This was the beginnings of TR.  So Jerry, (Av8or1) should know he is dealing with a nest of thieves from the very start.

Jerry, I wish you Godspeed on your quest, however you are a minnow swimming with sharks.  Be very leary of the sweet promises made to you over the phone, as Maxx learned, all that glitters is not gold.  (punny)

[Darth Vader]

This may be the case of a con woman making you like her just enough to forget about the facts.  My read on her post is that Maxx's letters are not phony because:
it happened 20 months ago
Svetlana is Natasha's friend
Richard has motivation to make Natasha look bad
Best of all is that she has proof, but her convenient ethics stops her from sharing it with us.
Pretty damn shaky "evidence" if you ask me given the fact that Svetlana told Maxx (David) that she didn't write the letter!
KenC

Very sharp, KenC.  You recognize the "dark side" while others like Jerry miss it.

I won't worry about you and the others on the light side of the force--because there are an abundance of Jerry's in the world who will march blindly into the 2 Ds of Death and Destruction.

[BillyB]

 

The other TR issue that has not been addressed is how TR came to be in business in the first place.  I well remember the agony Marc Dayton went through right after he bought the LTP agency from Ron Woody, although his posts were very hard to read, when he discovered his database had been gutted by his so-called loyal employees, he was devastated.  This was the beginnings of TR.  So Jerry, (Av8or1) should know he is dealing with a nest of thieves from the very start.

Now that you bring that up JB, I recall that too and it's another issue that should be addresses by Natasha.

After reviewing Maxx's letters again from one woman by two agencies, it's obvious one letter is answering Maxx's questions from a prior letter of his generically, and the other letter is answering his questions in detail.

[Maxx2]

Imagine a man in his late 40's, or early 50's beginning his search, by the time he finally finds the woman he will marry he will have spent a considerable amount of time sorting through a lot of chaff before he finds the kernel of wheat if agencies bog him down with false letters.  For a man at this stage of his life, time is of the essence.  To the agency owner who uses these methods, it represents a few extra dollars, to the victim of this scam, it represents wasted months of his life.  Which is more valuable?

JB, I started this process in December of '2000 at age 47, now I am 53. I prove your point. There are worse things than false letters. Those things that agencies have their hands in can shatter a man for years. I have seen many instances of this.  

Richard, I posted your e-mails to me to show our exchange and what perceptive people can learn from them. It was wrong for me to do so and I won't do it again. I am sorry.
I know that you live your life as everyday could be your last. I believe this is one reason why you wish to live it as a good man.  

I woke up this morning and read these posts and was astonished at the depth of understanding about this issue. I am impressed.

Maxx

[mike15]

You guys crack me up.  Maxx (or David).  You had a problem with Natasha's agency, I don't think anyone will argue that.  Did she steal money from you (that would be my definition of a SCAM), if yes then she should return your money.  I think you beat this point to death, it is obvious that the girl in question decided not to marry you.  Move on, there are plenty of fish in the sea.  At 53, maybe it is time for you to grow.  I think you showed your true colors by calling another poster an idiot. 

[Maxx2]

I won't even begin a responce to Mike's post. 

Bruno, I shouldn't have called you an idiot. It was done as JB said, I thought you should look at the details and not from feelings about Richard and I. And I don't think you think badly of us. It's just one of those man things. You know, where men criticise other men. You see this all the time over at RWG, little or no camaraderie. Also as JB observed, watch what happens when a pretty skirt (woman) enters the room. Yeah we are all flawed.

Maxx

 

[KenC]

Just hold on there Mikey,
This forum is in large part created to help men successfully travel through the process of finding, romancing, relocating and marrying a RW.  If there is a deceptive agency out there trying to lure new victims it is the responsibility of this forum to warn as many men as it can reach. We now have the agency owner coming on here and blowing smoke up our azz and we are supposed to forgive and forget?  Or is it OK because she happens to be a cute RW with good English skills?  I have been a critic of Maxx in the past because of his fixation on his ex Russian wife that scammed the heck out of him.  I too said "enough is enough, we get it."  But in this case, to warn others of a deceptive agency, is the only decent thing to do.  You want to use an agency that has been known to fabricate letters?  Go for it!  Just never say that you weren't warned.
KenC