Turboguy & Turbodude's First Dream tour

[Moscvichka]

Dear Moscvichka, I would write a second letter to you to explain that our relationship with Turbo is especial. But I cannot see any sense to do that. You will not believe me. And generally speaking there is only one person I should prove anything here or somewhere else. The person is Turbo only.   

Dear vwrw.
You are mistaken. I even find the bases to understand more you than some man which wishes to have the wife with 30 years age difference.
and you are right you should not prove anything to somebody .. even to Turbo.
But you and Turbo began this topic about both you.It meant, that you were ready to hear different opinions. Yes?
Welcome to russuan-american forums, you will know that Russian women speak about marriages with the big difference in the age. You learn real examples. Even more... you will know how this young woman are unhappy in such marriages.

[Moscvichka]

Bruno,
the example which you have described, is very interesting, but I guess, this couple want something another for happiness, than young woman. Different age ... so...different needs

[Turboguy]

VWRW,  You have nothing to prove to me.  I know all I need to know.

Moscvichka,  you are right, 7 years of age difference is not the same as 30.  I will take it a little further.   7 years of age difference is not the same as 7 years of age difference.  

What do I mean by that.  My former fiancee was about the same age as VWRW.  Yet VWRW is 30 years older than my former fiancee.   Still confused.  My former fiancee thought and acted like a 12 year old.  VWRW has a wisdom, knowledge and nature beyond her years.

My service manager for my business is 20 years younger than me.  Yet he is 20 years older.  What do I mean by that.   I mean that he is a good person but mentally and physically he is older.  To much drinking and too many cigarettes have taken a toll on his body.  He played volleyball at our company picnic and his body took 6 months to recover.  He has given up on life.   I am happy to play volleyball when ever I have a chance.   VWRW and I were out riding go carts in her city.  I can keep up with people 20 years younger, I have a great outlook on life.  I do not feel like a lump sitting waiting to retire and enjoy his golden years.   I have much to do and much living to do yet.   my service manager that I talked about is married, but many would consider his age to be an appropriate age for someone the age of VWRW.   I will be very surprised if I do not outlive him but quite a bit and certainly the quality of my life is a million times better than his.  

Moscvichka,  I too do not need a young woman to make me happy.  I found the woman that can make me happy.  She just happened to be young.  I would have felt the same about her at whatever age she was. 

[Michelangelo]

Dear Moscvichka, I would write a second letter to you to explain that our relationship with Turbo is especial. But I cannot see any sense to do that. You will not believe me. And generally speaking there is only one person I should prove anything here or somewhere else. The person is Turbo only.   

You are indeed a very special and wise person, vwrw!  Already, you see that certain posters want to impose their will on you.  But even more, with your words "you will not believe me,", you know they are close-minded and discussing with them is a waste of time.

Since then, she has written you again, even though this post clearly tells her your feelings.

My advise to you is to turn on the ignore button for this person.  I am.  

There is no need to be annoyed by such a person.

[jb]

Dear Moscovichka, (Moscow Lady)

Perhaps, in your effort to enlighten vwrw, you would be kind enough to provide your Russian sister with some links to your favorite Russian Women's discussion forums.  That way she will be able to read the stories for herself.

I recommend the following:
http://www.russianwomenabroad.com/

and one which my wife seems to favor:
http://forum.privet.com

The reason my wife likes the "Privet" forum so much is that it is populated not just by Russian girls who arrived here on marriage visas.  There are also a goodly number of Russians, men and women, who are here by virtue of their outstanding academic and scientific achievements in the fields of medicine, mathematics, and physics, for example.  This is the place for a Russian to visit if they need help with a health problem, a profession question, as well as relationship advice and legal help.  There will be a Russian there who knows the answer and can explain in the "Mother" language to the newbie Russian in America.

I think the average new immigrant Russian woman will find it very helpful.

[Turboguy]

jb,  I appreciate your efforts to enlighten VWRW but I belive she has already been to some of those forums and read the horror stories.   You can find horror stories on both sides of the fence.  Often it is those who make big mistakes who talk about it and those who are happy have no need. 

Michaelangelo and PeeVee, your earlier advice was the best I have seen in a long time. 

[Turboguy]

By the way VWRW, I like your new avitar.   I am anxious to have my new avitar up.

[Bruno]

Bruno,
the example which you have described, is very interesting, but I guess, this couple want something another for happiness, than young woman. Different age ... so...different needs

Yes, in my example, it is the woman who is more old... and it is a Belgium couple...

But really, other people see difference of age like a lust factor when the couple is relatively young ( by example 20-50 yo ) but all seem to be normal when the same people are older ( by example 70-100 yo )...

For the younger case, several will say that one have marry for the lust factor and the other for the security facter... for the older case, people about maturity and real love..

Do need couple wait until they reach a very old age for other accept this type of relationship... on a other forum, people have attack the KenC relationship due to the age difference... What is the problem in the KenC relation ? Both seem happy, they are already several year together and i am sure that they will know more year of hapiness...

My previous marriage was with a RW with no so much age difference and it have last only 5 year... if now, i can know a women, same with a large age difference, who can lead to a relationship who last several decade ( until my dead or the dead of my partner ), what is the problem... i am ready to accept women a lot younger or older that me if it lead to a stable long term relationship...

Maybe the real problem is on the side of RW... i am 38 year old and i have write to women around my age until around 50 year old... usually, when they reply me, they see me like a little boy, like a potential lover but not a partner... for them, i am too young...

Can you explain me why RW don't accept patner younger that themself ?

[Bruno]

jb,  I appreciate your efforts to enlighten VWRW but I belive she has already been to some of those forums and read the horror stories.

turbo, it is not about horror story... if you and VWRW work together on the relationship, it will not be a horror story... but be realistic and know that the way is full of trap is the first step to knowledge...

I wish you and VWRW a lot of hapiness but it will not be easy... several people will not accept your situation, some will be jealous, some... but the final result who count is what happen between you and VWRW...

By example, all can be perfect between the two of you... but what is the reaction of the VWRW parents ? First obstacle... now, what about the reaction of Turbo Junior, your own son who is around the same age ( if not older ) that VWRW... Is he ready to say "mama" to a woman who is the same age of younger that him... they are details but these details will make your life more difficult... For now, i have no doubt about your relation with VWRW but what about the relation with the outside world...

I speak with some experience... my previous wife was only a few year younger that me... but i was with a look who make me older and she was with a teen look... the first time that someone ask you for dance with your daughter, it seem funny... but with time, it make you furious...

[vwrw]

 JB and Moscvichka thank you for your desire to open my eyes. But I will not read the stories which have not happy ends. The stories would destroy my belief in success. JB, do you not agree - one always gets things what he/she believe in?

[vwrw]

Viking, are you sure that the reason why you had uncomfortable meeting with the nice woman was her lack of English? Maybe, she was melting down because of the pleasure you were close to her and that made her to be unable to use any of her knowledge. Are you able to be a good orator when you melt down because of pleasure? Do you remember the tales you read when you were a little boy? There always is one behind a miracle who makes the miracle to come true. Like the nice woman you met I cannot use biggest part of my knowledge when I melt down because of pleasure but I very wanted Turbo to have a good impression of me, so I needed miracle. I got the miracle. And Viking, be sure there was one who made the miracle to be came true.   

Albert, a long time ago I understood that I am not a million dollars :-) and ever since I do not expect everybody to love and take care of me as soon as I appear in front of them. So, I was okay with reading your first post. Hmm…you amazed me. It is so large rarity when a man admits that he has done something wrongly. I was pleasantly impressed by your sorry. 

   

[jb]

vwrw,

I believe in the old saying, (proverb?) that one should not repeat the same mistakes over and over, each time expecting a different outcome.  To not gather information about ice conditions before skating on thin ice, and a very large age difference is very thin ice, is foolish. 

We have built a 5 year marriage relationship, me and her, she is a woman whom I not only adore, but also respect and cherish for her wisdom and life experience she acquired before I met her.  I married the whole package, including two stepsons, both of whom I'm very proud.  They are both fine human beings.  My eldest stepson is older than you, the younger son is only slightly younger than you, and my wife is a whole lot older than you, almost double your age.  So you would be more of a *daughter* figure to me.  We come from a very different background than you and T/G, one which you can probably not relate, so you should not listen to advice from such an old geezer and geezerettka as us.  We are not even close to being in the same problems you will face with Turbo.

I only provided those links to Russian forums for informational purposes.

[Michelangelo]

dear vwrw,

I'll share that on this board and in life lots of people will not support you and will attack you now.  

It's because you have found happiness.

With my girl Vik, they constantly told her that she was stupid girl; I was too old for her; I was an American; I would have a baby with her and steal it!; she would hate living in American; the list goes on and on..

So be ready for this.  It will be a real test of your self-confidence and your love for Turbo.

[Michelangelo]

Concerning RWD, the best advice you will get here will not be from either extreme view.  Listen to those who reason and think, and do not tell you what to do in a black and white manner.

Yes, it is possible to have a fairy tale life together.  No, it will not be easy.

I think the list that KenC gave you is the best advice you have been given.  He is proof that a large age difference can work, but he tells you it is difficult.

So make your decision and then move foreward. Don't walk on the ice thinking it is thin; rather, know it is strong and will support you.

You are wise.  You already know that expectation has a lot to do with outcome, and that negative thinking kills.

[PeeWee]

JB and Moscvichka thank you for your desire to open my eyes. But I will not read the stories which have not happy ends. The stories would destroy my belief in success. JB, do you not agree - one always gets things what he/she believe in?

That would be called a "self fulfilling prophesy."


Peevee

[BillyB]

Guys,

vwrw has read over 2400 of TG's posts and probably tens of thousands of posts in the threads he participated in. TG has read hundreds of thousands of posts. I'm sure they read nearly every possible reason to not engage in a relationship with a large age difference but both seem like they are comfortable doing it. They both educated themselves enough to know what they are getting into and there's no sense explaining the danger. They know the odds. After all they've read and done, telling them what they should or should not do is like telling your own father how to be a father. You'll either be ignored or spanked.

As much as I know what odds they are up against, I don't want to see them fail. I wish TG and vwrw happiness and truly wish your for success in your relationship. Nobody can take that away from you unless you let them.

[SANDRO43]

AGE DIFFERENCE
~~~~~~~~~~~
Just an example (excerpt) from today's new batch of entries to a popular MOB site:

Age:   35   
Country:   Russia   
City:   Moscow    
Occupation: executive assistant   
Education:   higher   
Religion: Christianity   
Marital Status: never been married   
Kids:   no kids   
Languages spoken: fluent English, Russian   
I like these kinds of music: classical, disco, pop, rock, jazz, opera   
I usually read: classics, novels, poetry, newspapers and magazines   
I like to go out to/and:    to read   
My favorite cuisine: French, Italian, Japaneze, Chinese   
I like these physical activities: swimming, travelling, gym   
More about me: Smart and beautiful lady, university education, travelled a lot, work in American company, looking for equal partner.   
Age group of a partner: 35-55

Does not look like a loser (or a scammer, but who can say for sure, though ?), yet her acceptable age gap is 0-20.

[wiz]

Ageless Love...

He's 57 and she is 27 or, conversely, she is 57 and he is 27.

The general assumption is that either some younger woman is gold digging a wealthy older guy or a younger man is finally fulfilling his need for the mother whom he never had.

Mary Moore, Elizabeth Taylor, Susan Sarandon, Goldie Hawn and Roseanne have a lot more in common than fame. They all chose younger men as their love interests.

The term "cradle snatcher" has been applied to those who seek younger lovers.  Although, it is true that there are those who do so for the wrong reasons, the fact of the matter is that there are many who truly fall in love with those who are much younger or older than themselves.

As in all types of relationships, there are those whose sincerity and motivations are questionable.  However, it would be wrong for anyone to conclude that any relationships spanning as much as an entire generation (20 years) exist because at least one of the individuals has monetary designs or some kind of a psychological problem. Could it be that younger people actually do fall very much in love with those who are considerably older?

It can happen to those who would never think it possible.  Although, it is a statistical fact that most of us will develop a relationship with someone who is within three years of our own age, there are those who will go far beyond that norm. To cast some kind of negative judgement on those who relate in this way is a mistake. In fact, such relationships can be very workable and fulfilling when both truly care about each other.

There are, in fact, older people who have absolutely no qualms about having a younger person as a lover even if it involves realising that part of the attraction has to do with their being financially well off.  I know of a very wealthy older gentleman who took pride in the fact that his material accomplishments included being able to maintain an extremely good looking wife who was thirty years his junior. In fact, they understood each other very well in this regard. It was an accepted part of their relationship and neither was making any attempt to fool the other, or anyone else.
This might not be the kind of relationship that most of us would ever want to experience.

The point to be made here is that there are couples who are very happy with this kind of arrangement.  He enjoys being able to be intimate with a beautiful young woman and she feels more than secure as a result of his income.  It's their life and it works for both of them.
 
One has to consider the possibility that there are indeed those who truly look for the mother/father aspect in a relationship. Those who feel short-changed in this way might seek out an older partner to fulfil that need. Should the older partner be able to both recognise the need and also be willing to meet it, then who are we to say that there is something wrong with this type of relationship? Different people have varying needs.

Age difference is just another one of the many types of committed relationships that make up the fabric of our society. They not only exist, but those involved in them would have it no other way. 
Love even has the ability to cross the boundaries of ageless time.
 


I have not participated before in this thread because of getting ready to go to Russia but I kept reading all your comments.

VWRW do not take any notice to any comments made by any person from your country. They are simply jealous that you have found the right man. Don't believe their protestations that only want to give you good advice.
I am talking from personal experience .....

Many people said before, take your relationship private, if you like continue reading the comments here because there are many good posters who give very good objective advice.

TG and VWRW Good luck

[Son of Clyde]

I like to think in future terms. In 200 years it will not much matter what happened at RWD. We each try, hopefully to lead a good life. Turboguy is a good man but some (maybe out of jealousy) may criticize that he has successfully found a younger woman. Many guys on this board have a 15 -20 year age difference and in many situations it works out. It all comes down to personalities and fulfillment of needs. If Turbo is willing to sacrifice and provide for his lady and she is willing to share her life with an older man I wish them much success and a bright future.

[jinx13]

I think some of you are getting way ahead of yourselves, and already have Turbo and vwrw married with children.

 Michelangelo, you said

So be ready for this.  It will be a real test of your self-confidence and your love for Turbo.

 They are in love after a one week meeting? Ok, I understand there was correspondence too, but give me a break, they barely know each other. I think the advice to take the relationship 'off-board' was good, all these comments and speculation about the future can't help a budding relationship. Reality is all that matters.
 I hope you meet again soon and get to know one another better, Rome sounds very romantic, I wouldn't suggest it for a first meeting, but since you have already been to her home city, it could be a great meeting. I'm a little jealous, I've wanted to go there for a long time, just haven't had the chance yet. Good luck Turbo and vwrw!

 p.s. Moscovichka should be allowed to express her opinions just like anybody else, just because you may not agree with her does not make her statements any less relevant. It's just different opinions, like she said, welcome to American - Russian forums    I personally value what the other side has to say, it's nice to have the occasional Russian woman point of view to counter the 'good ol boys' that make up the majority of the listers here.

[jinx13]

 vwrw, I liked your old avitar, that monkey scares me a little 

[vwrw]

Thank you Jinx13. 

Quote
...all these comments and speculation about the future can't help a budding relationship.



Jinx13, are you sure? Thanks for the comments and speculation we have received I have many topics to discuss with Turbo. Discussions help us to open ourselves to each other in a deep way. A good communication is solid base to build relationship, is not it?
   

[jinx13]

vwrw,

 Well, I think advice from the forum can be helpful, I have used it in my relationship too, and you are right about opening up discussion between you and Turbo, it can lead to better communication and understanding, but do you really want to try and develop this relationship online, with all of us as a witness?

 You see, now we are all curious, will it work?, will they fail because of age difference? Is this just the excitement of meeting someone new, and planning trips together? (Rome) or is it real, will they stand the test of time?

 Many guys come here, and ask advice about the girl they are going to visit, or already are engaged, or even married many years. The difference with you and Turbo is that you are BOTH here, discussing the future, and your relationship. You have opened yourselves up, which is great, but you are also open to criticism now, and I personally don't think it's a great way to start out. Just my opinion of course.

 No matter what happens I wish you great luck, and vwrw I look forward to your posts on other topics, it's nice to have the woman's perspective.    - David

[Kuna]

I've generally tried to stay away from this thread because reading it makes me feel a little like a voyeur, but of course it's like an eclipse, it's hard to stop looking.

Life is a journey and none of us know exactly what will happen along the way. 

We might choose a path a find out it's a dead end.  We might set out for the mountains, get there, and then look into the distance and decide to go to a beach we can see instead.

Most people would agree that generally a large age difference can (not will) make it more difficult. At the end of the day though it's the two people in the relationship that will define it's success or failure.

If Turbo and vwrw choose to take the path of learning about eachother, and becoming confident in the feelings that they are experiencing, then I say good luck.

If they decide to marry and vwrw goes the the US, then I also say good luck again.

I remember reading a book on Buddhism and one line in there has had a huge impact on my life.

The Dali Lama said (and I'm paraphrasing), "The purpose of life is the pursuit of happiness, not pleasure".

The difference between the two? 

Pleasure is that urgent rush of emotion,  that high you get from drug abuse, the thrill of buying something new and expensive. 

Happiness is a feeling of prolonged contentment.

When the initial "rush" is over they'll both make the best quality decision, and then I will continue to wish them good luck.

 

Kuna

[Turboguy]

Hello Kuna,   That was a nice post.  There is a lot of wisdom there.  I particularly liked the part about life being the persuit of happiness not pleasure.   I seem to have seen a lot of people who chased pleasure.  Now I know why the Dali Lama was considered so wise.

VWRW,  I have to agree with you.  I think the discussions have helped more than anything.   We don't ever seem to lack for things to talk about but I think there were some good points brought up that we may not of thought of so fast. 

Jinx,  I really never thought that much about it being so unique to have both parties in a relationship here but you are right, it is a little different.   Our next meeting may be Rome or someplace else.   I am a little concerned about getting the visa for her as quickly as we would need it to go to Rome.   I think Rome may have to wait for the third visit.   I think Egypt might win out.   Does anyone know how long it takes to get the Shengen visa? (not sure I am spelling that right)   I will add, she has had one before, so that should make it a little easier to get (yes/no)   We are trying to work out the details now for our next visit.

I agree with you about Moscovitcha.   Everyone is entitled to their opinion.   Sometimes we may disagree.   Sometimes we don't want to hear it.   Still the more ideas and thoughts that are expressed the better.