How to start again

[BC]

Still this process of finding a lady from the FSU is not for the faint of heart or to be done on the cheap, that dose not mean that you can not find a quality woman for less than 6 to 8k total out of pocket expenses.

'Find' for 6 to 8 k - ok, that's a couple of trips, communications costs and some agency fees. Getting her and possibly siblings back, marriage and all settled in adds up to a lot more..

[Bruno]

Yep, 6k to 8k for the search and find is maybe enough... but it is only the beginning... the real expense are during the first year of stay in new country... you new wife is fully dependant of you and you have several new expense... if you have spare on a account around one 1/2 of your yearly income, all will be right... after the first year, all become a little more easy financialy...

[jb]

Wow~!  I get called out on a little consulting job and look what happens...

I'm very well aware that the cost of living is a dynamic based on where you live as well as how you live.  In my line of work there have been times when I had to go places where my dollars didn't go as far as they do at home.  I simply spent more evening watching TV and was none the worse for the experience.  California is a good expample of this, in fact California got so far out of whack we just had to stop doing business there, closed the shop, relocated the people, and wrote it off as a bad experience.

This is, I guess, why I wrote what I did,,, that the real numbers are in the percentages of income.  If you live in an area where that house payment, (PITI) is $1,000/mo, you need to be drawing $4,000/mo, i.e., 25% of your monthly income should cover your housing cost. This is the yardstick. The other 75% will be gobbled up with such things as food, clothing, car payments, insurance, utilities, and other costs of living.  Hopefully there will be something left over to pay for the odd vacation, the annual visit home so your RW wife can go see her mom, dad, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles and friends.

If there isn't something left over after all the bills are paid, you are living hand-to-mouth without a cash surplus.  The general consensus of finacial planners says that if you don't have a positive monthly cash flow, (more income than outgo), in a very few short years you will be wallowing in debt, usually this will be the bad kind of debt, credit cards at high interest rates.  Not an enviable position to be in.

I know one man here in Corpus who brought a woman over to the USA with his credit cards, by the time she got here, the tab was over $50,000 in credit card debt at 18% interest.  Because she wasn't working, and needed everything, things went from bad to worse in a short time.  By following his example you could wind up with a debt like his, and no RW wife to show for it.  That's why I caution men to have their financial ducks in a row before starting on a quest such as this. I frankly don't care who is richer of poorer, it's a question of who can afford to be married to an RW/UW.  Some guys are already thinking of how long it will take for her to find a job, that tells me he can't cover the monthly nut with his salary.  Without giving it much thought, if you are wondering about her employment options after she arrives, you need to go find a local girl to marry.

[BC]

Some guys are already thinking of how long it will take for her to find a job, that tells me he can't cover the monthly nut with his salary.  Without giving it much thought, if you are wondering about her employment options after she arrives, you need to go find a local girl to marry.

Just hope the guys here listen as well as those that pay for your consulting

.. and don't go off on a tilt dreaming about a doctor or lawyer..  

It's sometimes amazing how far men will go to try and rationalize a hopeless cause.

[ConnerVT]

This is, I guess, why I wrote what I did,,, that the real numbers are in the percentages of income. If you live in an area where that house payment, (PITI) is $1,000/mo, you need to be drawing $4,000/mo, i.e., 25% of your monthly income should cover your housing cost. This is the yardstick. The other 75% will be gobbled up with such things as food, clothing, car payments, insurance, utilities, and other costs of living. Hopefully there will be something left over to pay for the odd vacation, the annual visit home so your RW wife can go see her mom, dad, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles and friends.

One thing you left out of that $4K/month ($48K yearly salary) was taxes.  Federal, state (and sometimes) local income taxes, property and school taxes, Social Security taxes (don't confuse that with pension/retirement income, that will come later!), Sales tax, excise taxes, use taxes.  Easily a third of your income goes to them.

Now, we can't forget saving for the future.  Uncle Sam won't be taking very good care of us Americans, so we need to save enough money to pay the prices of 20+ years from now (less for you, jb ).

As for the cost of living in NYC vs. Dogpatch, TN -- the price of a round trip airline ticket to Moscow costs less in NYC...

[deden]

Well to get back to the original question, I agree that when you are unsuccessful at something you have to take a look at what you can do to change your approach/plan/search to increase your chances of success.  There will always be guys that go over, meet the one single lady and live happily ever after.  Like everything in life, its a numbers game to some degree.  Therefore, a small percentage will find their ideal women on the first visit while a small percentage will never find their ideal women.  More will think they found their ideal women on the first trip, get engaged, get married only to later get divorced.  Like everything in life, there are all colors of the spectrum.  Most of us probably fall somewhere in between getting "lucky" (sort of speak) on the first trip to never finding the right one.

Personally, I've been to Ukraine a number of times.  Was married to a Ukrainian women for almost two years.  Unfortunately, it didn't work out.  However, I have not given up on the pursuit of happiness and I truly love Ukraine and the people.  Therefore I've had to take a hard look at why the relationship failed and what can I do to ensure that it doesn't fail again.  With that said, here is the major issue that I've identified as one of the problems for me and how I plan to change my approach to finding the right lady this time.

The time frame of truly getting to know someone.

1) Letter Wrtiting:  This process is not very conducive to finding the right women as the time frames are inherantly problematic.  Typically we first meet a RW through letter writing but the fact is, anyone can write a letter selling themself.  Can you really get to know someone through letter writing?  You can certainly get to know what they write to you about themself, but they have time to think it out and draft it so as you only see the side they want you to see.  Sure, its a good way to get some of the background stuff covered such as their favorite music, movie, vacation spot, etc. but we all know this is not enough so that is why we go over there and visit them.  And if you're writing 4, 5, 6, 7 or more of them, it gets pretty hard keeping things going with all of them through letter writing.

2) The Visit:  This I think is where many of us have failed.  Let's face it, most of us have to work for a living.  Kind of makes it hard to spend more than 2-4 weeks per year going to Ukraine.  Heck, even Jeffery Dommer could have kept it together for 2-4 weeks to meet someone.  We've all dated women in the past and the first few months are bliss (even the ones you may have later hated during the divorce).  So now we've spent 3-4 months or more writing a number of ladies, weeded them down through letter writing and now we're going to spend 2-4 weeks truly getting to know them?  Nope, not possible.  The fact is, anybody (except for maybe the really psycho) can be warm, caring, charming and everything thing else for several weeks.  The fact is, its hard to do that when your with someone constantly for 5 or 6 months or longer but its nothing to do it for 2-4 weeks (just ask all my ex-girlfriends ).  And when you add to this the fact your spending more money with them than they make in several months over the course of a couple of weeks, its somewhat like a dream vacation to them (and it definately is our vacation).  Many guys (and I was one) would than make a decision is this girl really the one.  Some will make a decision and start the K-1 process while the others will return home continue to correspond and maybe go back over to meet her again (or at least one of the several he may have met the first time over).  Maybe the wait for the next visit will weed out a hurry up and marry me scammer, but whether you are compatible or not the wait won't matter.  If there was insufficient time the first visit to really see if you are compatible how can another 2-4 week vacation rule it out?  Especially when its like a dream vacation for them (and you).  Again, anyone can put on there best behavior for 2-4 weeks or months of letter writing.

3)  The K-1 Visa:  Okay, so you've written her, met her (maybe even several times) now, you bring her over.  This is supposed to be the true opportunity to really get to know her.  But the government (and this is really stupid of them) gives you a whole whopping 3 months to make this very important decision!!!  Why not 6 months, why not a year?  She is over here, and unless you live in a trailer with a still next to it and a 32 Ford on cement blocks, she is excited that her "dream" has come true and your on planet 9 that she's finally here.  Your hard work has paid off (or so you think).  There are new things to see, new things to learn (like how to use a washing machine), etc.  Again, not hard to keep it together for three months.  Now you got to make a decision.  Since everything is going well, you make the plunge.  Now, its 6 months later and she's missing her family and friends, can't get a job, can't drive, language barrier, etc. and so depression sets in.  At the same time you discover that she has some annoying behaviors and she discovers yours (hey, we all got 'em) so things go from bad to worse.  But you stick it out since you've got time, money and feelings invested only to find that when you really, truly get to know each other after living together for 1-2 years, she isn't the one.

Now I'm not saying that no one can find their true love through the time constraints this process allows.  Plently of guys have.  Heck, I figure they must be a heck of a lot easier to get along with than me.  So that means I need more time because apparently I need to find a gal that truly can get along with me over the long haul as I can with her.  And only time will prove that.  So, for me, I have decided to give it all the time necessary this go around including living over there for at least a couple of years after I meet who I think is the one.  I'm gonna take an early retirement, sell this over priced California house and move to Ukraine.  The added benefit is that 1) if and when I do meet the right lady, I'm not even going to suggest we move to the US and 2) I'll have a chance to really learn Russian and be more sensitive to her culture.

And if this doesn't work, then how bad can single life be in Kiev as an ex-pait?

Cheers

[Bruno]

ConnerVT who meet his tax collector :D:D:D Sorry, it is too much cute... i cannot resist to publish it...

[ConnerVT]

HEY!! That IS me, dateline 15 April 2004, making my last quarterly Federal income tax payment (and underpayment penalty).

[Bruno]

So afraid that you have change your avatar  !!!

[ConnerVT]

Just picked a tougher cat.

It's the logo of the local university's men's basketball team.  They just lost in the big college tournament taking place in the US right now, but the other night, won big against a team that few people gave them a chance against.  So they've earned my support and respect this week.

[tim 360]

Bruno,  be easy on Conner.  Taxes here in Vermont can be pricey,  depending upon where one lives and their income level.

[Bruno]

Tim, it was not against Conner... i like humor and it was long time that i have these good picture of cat... when he have post about tax, it was the perfect moment for publish it... the life is enough sad... laugh is good for the health...

About tax, i don't wish you our European tax... they are very high... but we have side service from state...

[tim 360]

Pretty kitty.  I had a good laugh too. (good for my health too)

Euro tax vs. US Tax?  Yes,  your taxes are higher,  but you receive many excellent benefits which are not available here.  And with our current economics we will not see for a very long time.

[ConnerVT]

Don't ya worry about me, Tim.  I'm a big boy, and can take a joke as good as any.  I liked the picture, and it's already saved on my HD.  I also post on a few non-RW forums, where there are a number of cat avatars.  I'll put the picture to good use.

True, Euro taxes can be as brutal as US taxes.  But as you also point out, there is a much wider safety net that's cast out from them.  In the US, the combination of taxes and health related insurance premiums can really break a persons budget.  For many, salary is a secondary consideration when considering a new job offer, with insurance and retirement benefits being more important.

My wife was the chief accountant in her business before coming to the US.  It has been an eye opening experience for her, as she has become more understanding of how things are financed here in the US.

[Bruno]

[line]
Euro tax vs. US Tax?  Yes,  your taxes are higher,  but you receive many excellent benefits which are not available here.  And with our current economics we will not see for a very long time.
[line]


Don't worry too much... Europe gourverment wish our system dissappear... last week-end, it was a big manifestation in Brussels with several people from all Europa ( same from country like Estonia ) for protect our social right...

Usualy, they remove some right but keep the tax :X...

I know that it is not the topic but i go explain shortly our system in Belgium... if the boss give you 100$, he need pay 30$ tax ( patron tax ) itself to the state... from these 100$, we pay social tax ( 14.5% )... we pay state tax between 0% and 50% of the rest ( 0% are for people with very low income around the povrety level )... up this, we pay city tax ( from 0% to rich city, to 12% for some other )... and more, we pay 21% tax on all product that we buy in shop...

But we have free school, almost free health care, pension, minimum income when loose the work ( 80% of the previous income the first year, 60% the second, minimum after ), money for invalid, for handicap, for children, social home, ...

It is not far from the communist system but very high tax are needed for so system work... i don't like tax but i like our system... and tax are needed for keep our system working...

But with time, the tax stay and the quality of service become more low... for the daughter of my ex-wife, i have pay privat school... more expensive but better quality of education... i pay so a health insurance who cover what the state don't cover... and i pay for a complement of pension too...

Yep, the America model become slowly the norm...

[ukguy]

 

Bruno,

 I am going to agree with jb,  except his figures are bit low, looking through the newspapers a good mid range new car is 30k and a fair used car is 15 to 18k unless you buy a rollerskate to drive (ever heard of the Yugo?). As for the driving jb is right we drive over 25,000 miles (40,233km) a year between 3 cars and that dose not include the motorhome (RV) or rental cars, when we fly (our own airplane) someplace. America is simply a huge country compaired to Europe, where we live now in southwest Florida it is 5 miles (8km) one way the the nearest store let alone any additional shopping.

 jb is also right about the cost of living in America, in California the average home is now $500,000.00 dollars (honestly), add it up yourself:

Mortguage payment                               $2,500.00 per month

House insurance                                          300.00 per month

Car payment (1)                                            325.00 per month  

Car insurance                                                200.00 per month

Utilities gas & electric                                   250.00 per month

Utilities water, sewer & garbage                     75.00 per month

Health insurance (varies but average)          250.00 per month

Telephone including cell phone                      80.00 per month

Food (for 1)                                                     300.00 per month

Gas for car (varies)                                         450.00 per month

Cable or Sat TV                                                85.00 per month

Misc. expenses                                               250.00 per month

Property taxes                                                 250.00 per month

Total                                      $5,315.00 per month in expenses

Now add in about 33% to $5,315.00 for various State, Federal and Local Income Taxes taken out of your pay before you receive your pay check and your monthly income is about $7,070.00 (rounded off) or damn near $85,000.00 per year.

 Sorry Bruno but you have NO idea of how expensive it is to live in many parts of America.

If you think its expensive there you should try living in England! My monthly income is average for my country. I have my own house but i am very aware that it will be difficult at first to support a foreign wife. Which leads me to ask ( new thread maybe) do they like/want to work or do most want to stay at home?

Rich

 

[Elen]

Which leads me to ask ( new thread maybe) do they like/want to work or do most want to stay at home?

 

They used to work, but the answer depends on kind of girl you are looking for, on her English language, her former ocupation and on situation at your local job market 

[TheArrow]

To UKguy:

You are right! Definitely! Some American States are very expensive for living.

 

[Bruno]

If you think its expensive there you should try living in England! My monthly income is average for my country. I have my own house but i am very aware that it will be difficult at first to support a foreign wife. Which leads me to ask ( new thread maybe) do they like/want to work or do most want to stay at home?

Do you have really your own house ? A house is only yours when you have fully pay back the bank !!! Several people say to russian woman that they have own house but when they come life here, they are surprise that the man need to pay monthly very expensive bill to the bank for the home... Same problem with car, TV, ...

For russian, when you say that something is yours, they think that it is really yours and not something buy with credit... and when you need pay monthly several credit, it is normal that the life is not easy... at the financial side...

About russian woman work, it is not a problem but... find a job is really a problem... specialy for the high educate one... a advocat, doctor, lawer,... have almost no chance to find a work in our country... a manual worker like pedicure, hairdresser, cook, ... have more change...

And don't forget, until she have learn the language and follow some formation, you will be the only one support of the family... these process of education is minimum one year to several year... be ready to this !!!

 

[TheArrow]

Rich

 

[/quote]Most of Russian women prefer to work. and to earn money themselves. I know a few women who married foregners. They all work. 2 of my ex-schoolmates are living in the States now (one of them is married American). They work, too. Married tatiana works in Boeing Company, another, Anna, has her own business there.

[ukguy]

If you think its expensive there you should try living in England! My monthly income is average for my country. I have my own house but i am very aware that it will be difficult at first to support a foreign wife. Which leads me to ask ( new thread maybe) do they like/want to work or do most want to stay at home?

Do you have really your own house ? A house is only yours when you have fully pay back the bank !!! Several people say to russian woman that they have own house but when they come life here, they are surprise that the man need to pay monthly very expensive bill to the bank for the home... Same problem with car, TV, ...

For russian, when you say that something is yours, they think that it is really yours and not something buy with credit... and when you need pay monthly several credit, it is normal that the life is not easy... at the financial side...

About russian woman work, it is not a problem but... find a job is really a problem... specialy for the high educate one... a advocat, doctor, lawer,... have almost no chance to find a work in our country... a manual worker like pedicure, hairdresser, cook, ... have more change...

And don't forget, until she have learn the language and follow some formation, you will be the only one support of the family... these process of education is minimum one year to several year... be ready to this !!!

 
[/quote]
 

Yes my house is mortgaged and i admit money is fairly tight. But what do you suggest, do i cut ties now and get out after 3 months!:? i figure i can support her but perhaps when we think about kids we may need that second income!

[Bruno]

[line]
Yes my house is mortgaged and i admit money is fairly tight. But what do you suggest, do i cut ties now and get out after 3 months!:? i figure i can support her but perhaps when we think about kids we may need that second income!
[line]


Why get out... think about possible problem, and find a solution is the right way

Maybe wait a little about child... Why ? Because it will be not easy for a woman to work and take care of a newborn baby...

Possible scenario... You marry... the first year in UK, she learn the language and some professional formation... she begin work and you spare together some money ( maybe one year is enough )... when it is enough, begin make the baby... when the baby is coming, she stop work and take care of the new born ( i don't know in UK but here, woman can take maximum one year pause career ( not pay ) for take care of newborn and comeback to his work after these delay )... back to work after these year, and if your budget allow it, maybe she can work half-time or part-time ( 3/4 )... 

It is only a example of scenario... inform yourself about your local possibility, law about work, formation...

In my case, with Galina, she go receive free integration course, free language course, free professional formation pay by my gouverment... she will go helped by several state organisation for find a work... and because it will be the first time she work, the boss have some tax reduction ...

When you have not a lot of money, use you brain... ask information around you in your administration, in your syndicat, make contact with the local russian communauty and speak with woman already married with UK man for know her personal parcours, ask address of school, associations...

In short : Inform yourself... be ready is the best method... think long term...

[wiz]

Having been rather busy for the past 8 months I have neglected my reading on the board and it looks I have missed some real gems on the way. Well now that I have plenty of free time I am catching up and I would like to add some of my own observation in here.

For all the newbie’s and many other’s including my self, on the 28 November 2006, Dan Published an excellent article written by William III, which should be the guiding book for all those seeking a woman in the FSU countries.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3182.0

I find this article extremely interesting and it looks that it has been overlooked by many but I would suggest to those who have not yet found their woman, or are having a relationship with one to read it. It will help you to have a better understanding of this whole process of finding the right woman for you in the FSU countries.

William please accept my congratulations for this comprehensive article. Well done.

In this thread, another gem, the financial implications of this endeavour were discussed and unfortunately because of numbers (the majority Americans) in most of their comments refer to the American situation but as somebody said above the various costs of living differ according to location. Bruno of course explained the European circumstances and said something important:

In short : Inform yourself... be ready is the best method... think long term...

Basically make your homework before starting and be prepared.

Not everybody is a millionaire or rich enough to be able to afford a very expensive life style but still a normal persons can afford to look in the FSU to find a woman.

After going through the expensive process of travelling, meeting etc the woman I don’t see why once the woman is with you she has to cost a lot more money than a normal local woman?

One of the reasons is, they don’t listen to William’s advice, not to show off their wealth and try to impress her that way. Of course these women have their own aspirations and look for a secure future and better life style than they have in Russia. So in my view you have to make sure to find the right woman for your circumstances.

Any woman who is below 50 years old I expect she will want to do some kind of work, because she will want to get out of the house, mingle with local people, feel worth it, make new friends and earning her own money. They do work in Russia, don’t they?

What is the difference between a local woman and a Russian one? In today’s circumstances most couples both work when they start a family, why should it be different for Russian women? I know the language is a problem but very soon they will learn to speak at an acceptable level. Of course you must have the ability to support them initially till they settle down but that should not take years. Find a woman who speaks some or good English and not one who knows not a word, so the process is more expensive and take longer till she is ready to find a job.

Let’s not forget that Russian women also are very frugal with money, are prepare to work hard and contribute to the costs of living. I have seen many very well educated Russian persons doing Jobs which are not on the same level, as they did in Russia and they have the determination not only to survive but to make a success.

The important thing is that you talk to them and you are honest with them and explain everything so they are aware of your circumstances. If they feel strong about you then I am sure you can create a good relationship. Not all women are only looking for a mule to the west.

Bruno said that here we have free Health care and many other state benefits and that is why we pay higher taxes. Even a poor pensioner like me has managed to afford to go to Russia and Greece so many times last year. If you plan and judge everything correctly then you can make your dream come reality.

Your major problem is to find the right woman for you, who you can trust, respect, be honest and exclusive to each other and avoid those with ulterior motives.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Interesting thread, and I have read many, but not all, of the posts from this thread, and there are some great suggestions mentioned in this thread. I generally try to use the forums to search for good advice and also to post successes and difficulties that I have encountered, so that the next guy will be better prepared. However, I have also learned that when you start getting into the "I'm right, no I'm right" arguments, it becomes personal and often gets ugly. I try to stay away from these arguments.
Anyway, here's a sincere suggestion; instead of arguing how much of a salary it takes to marry an FSU woman, maybe we should all focus on how we can achieve success given the different situations and salaries that we currently live with.
Oh, one other thing, I will reiterate what others have said on here before; Successfully finding an FSU woman to be your future wife can be achieved by almost anyone with a decent job and who is responsible and serious and does their research. Let's not forget a prayer in there somewhere because that always helps.
Last week I proposed to my girlfriend from Ukraine, and she said yes, so now I am officially engaged to a wonderful fiancee! I must say that I am part of the great "middle class" in America, and success in finding an FSU woman is certainly a very possible reality if you are persistant and realistic in your goals. I will post about my recent engagement in another thread. Good luck to all...

[wiz]

Interesting thread, and I have read many, but not all, of the posts from this thread, and there are some great suggestions mentioned in this thread.

Anyway, here's a sincere suggestion; instead of arguing how much of a salary it takes to marry an FSU woman, maybe we should all focus on how we can achieve success given the different situations and salaries that we currently live with.

Congradulations for your engagement.

That was really the main trust behind my post above.