Group Tour or Go Alone?

[jinx13]

START2, It's not about creating a fuss, it's a topic, and people are supposed to write their opinion here...group tour or go alone? I favor the go alone approach, for all the reasons I have already listed.

 My girlfriend came here on her own, she got a visa from the lottery system, she is not "GCG" she is just someone who wanted to come to America, and California. She just happened to move to the S.F. Bay Area where I live too. I have dated other Russian women, and been to Russia/Ukraine 3 times. My opinions are based on my own experiences, and also the experiences I have read about on forums like this one.

 Yeah, who wouldn't want to go to a party? A tour is not a party, maybe you should explain that to your wife. I have spoken to many Russian and Ukrainian women about this topic, and the consensus seems to be that it's like a joke, a few guys, not many that are desirable, and a lot of women competing for their affection. Doesn't sound like a fun party for the woman, but I guess free food and drinks is nice.

 I respect Turbo too, and I can understand his point of view, we see things differently, but hey, do what you feel comfortable with. I said many of the same things Gator did, but nobody is jumping all over him about it. If I am negative in my responses it's because some people just frustrate me because they don't comprehend something I wrote, and interpret it in another way, like Darth for example, still thinks I called women that attend these tours sleazy, but I never said it. It's also annoying to comment on the topic at hand and to have people say I am being negative for speaking my opinion, which was the point of this thread..read the title again Group Tour or Go Alone?  Tu panimaesh? 

[jinx13]

If your town has a party where they can meet good guys why sit home and watch tv.  I don't think it says anything negative about them. 

 Very good point Turbo, I can see that side of it for sure, but I can also see how it might be embarrasing for a woman to attend one of these socials, they probably wouldn't want there family and friends to know about it. I would compare it to me going to one of those speed dating things, where people go from table to table and meet potential dates. I would never do something like that, it just seems silly to me, I would rather stay home and watch T.V. 

[START2]

START2, It's not about creating a fuss, it's a topic, and people are supposed to write their opinion here...group tour or go alone? I favor the go alone approach, for all the reasons I have already listed.

 
Jinxy, Don't go gettin your panties all in a wad. The opinion concept goes both ways, I have mine to. Don't have much background about you so I asked questions. BTW, ya panimayu ochin kharasho.

[Darth Vader]

Jinxy, Don't go gettin your panties all in a wad. The opinion concept goes both ways, I have mine to. Don't have much background about you so I asked questions. BTW, ya panimayu ochin kharasho.

Same here Jinx....Ya panimayu ochin kharasho.

Maybe "sleazy" is too strong a word, but a tour is not something I would ever feel comfortable doing, and I don't think it's a good way to meet quality women.

My wife (who is a quality woman and who has attended agency tour parties) just read your latest comments, and made three comments of her own.

1) Ok, in this case, the women at the party who  have university degrees and speak 3 languages and have nice jobs are --  as you wrote,  sleazy or of low quality. 

2) She continued by saying "if he expects to find a whore then he will find a whore."

3) And she asked "has he been to one of these parties?" When I said "no," she laughed and laughed.  Nuff said.

[jinx13]

I personally think it's a risky, and somewhat sleazy way to meet women. Just my opinion, different strokes as they say.  -  David

I don't think it's a good way to meet quality women.

 Read the quotes above again, did I ever call the women sleazy? I also said it's not a GOOD way to meet quality women, didn't say there was NO quality women there. This is what I mean about people reading and not comprehending, it's not my fault if you misinterpret something here, so if you want to make me to be the bad guy to your wife, that's fine, just get the facts straight. - David

[RESQU]

OK 

sorry folks, I have been away from the board a few days.  Just to clear things up.  Jinx- the reason I mentioned about reading Jacks website, was because I saw that some of your statements about tours were incorrect about how his are run.  I admit fully that this thread is about tours in general however, it seemed to veer off about how Turbo's experience was with the first dream tour.

Jinx, I say type all this in a non-heated and even tone.  Its difficult to judge the persons inflexion sometimes when its written and not spoken.  Fact about the FD(first dream) tour is that the women are invited by the man.  So all women have seen a profile, picture, and at each persons option sent emails etc...

I do not want to take this thread way off topic about my own tour but, if we are getting into the FD tours it would be helpful if we could all know how it differers from the ones like AFA. 

I went for a month in June and it was to Russia.  Basically, a personal advertisement with photo was ran in the local papers with my email, local snail mail address, and local Ph#.  Mine was set as a 4 city tour.  As well the agencies called women to the office to look at my photo and profile and a intro letter I sent.  I do not see any difference in an ad in the paper and one placed on a site like Lucky Lovers or Match.  I received more than 75 responses from Volgograd alone.  All sincere good looking women?  NO of course not!  But more than 50 I believe were sincere and of those, I personally met one on one about 25 of them.  I also went on dates with 10 or so women that I met in stores, tram, restaurant, and malls.  I have always been of the belief that I CAN at least determine if I have chemistry with a woman and decide if I want a second date after 2 hours with them.  Most of the time shorter.  I cancelled out of two of the cities because I do not believe the agencies there placed the ads as they said they would.  I did not get any responses from those cities.  Could it be that the women in those cities were not interested at all?  Yes, it could be but it didn't seem logical to get 75+ responses in one city and 0 in another.  Also I should say that I had my trip planned to Russia without intentions of dating anyone.  I came across the agency sites while researching the places I wanted to visit on my trip.  I came across Jack's site and called him.  What I liked most about his tour was that it was very flexible to what I wanted and it allowed me to date many women during the week.  Something I have always done here at home anyway... just 3 dates a week as opposed to 10-15!  Jack gave good solid advice on so many things I couldn't begin to list them all.  One of the best was to  incorporate my dates into sight seeing I had planned anyway.  It also made sense to me to get to know the women there and what they thought about everything, even if there was no "love connection" it was in valuable to listen to them and here what they had to say.  I am a people person by nature and can honestly say there was only 1 date that was not enjoyable or educational.


Jinx-  Yes you are correct, my pic is from the Panorama in Volgograd.  The history and the sight seeing there, especially for a WW ll buff like myself was a trip of a lifetime!  If Volgograd was not on the tour list I would have gone there anyway.

[Nataly2202]

I am David's ( jinx13) gf. I was just reading this topic and wanted to make comment.

START2 and Darth Vader, I dont understand why you are getting all defensive about tours. Everybody can have their own point of view on what is better way to meet women. I think men that respect themself will not go to the tour more than once. I can understand men going there because they are curious to see what it is like when girls are "fighting" for you ( suddenly dreams of some men start to come true for several thousands $). I can understand women that go there from boredom (everybody needs entartaiment), but I dont think most of the women dont take it serious.
I have lots of friends who went on the tours and they were not very excited about what they saw. Well to tell the truth I would never marry a man I met on the tour, it is just doesnt seem right to me.
Since you are defending tours so much I think you make nice advertisement for Jeck on that forum. Does he give you discount at least?
I will probably hear back from you not very nice comments on what I wrote. But we are all grown up people here, so even though everybody has their own point of view you, guys, should at least try to be respectful and dont misinterpret words of other people.

Nataly

[Turboguy]

Hi Nataly,

Since I am the one who posted most about Jack's tours I will throw in my two cents worth.

First off I want to answer the one about does jack give me a discount at least.   No, no discount Nataly.  I never even discussed with Jack that I was posting anything.   I had my mind made up when I went that I was going to do a TR one way or the other.  If I thought it was terrible and a rip off that is what my TR would have said.    In reality I thought it was fun, a very effective use of my time and money and very effective. 

I had my son along and he found someone he really likes and will go back on December 2nd to spend a week with her.   I found a lot of good cantidates but my life may go in other directions.  I will know more about that soon.

The closest I can come to not nice comments is the only thing you say that I disagree with.  I don't plan to say it in a not nice way though.   It too is my personal opinion.  If I met somoeone who seemed like the right person for me I would not care if I met her on a tour, through an agency or if she was the maid cleaning my hotel room.   I would be happy to have met the girl of my dreams however I happened to be so lucky as to meet her.   So I do have a different feeling about never marrying someone you met on a tour. 

[Darth Vader]

START2 and Darth Vader, I dont understand why you are getting all defensive about tours. Everybody can have their own point of view on what is better way to meet women.  
Since you are defending tours so much I think you make nice advertisement for Jeck on that forum. Does he give you discount at least?
I will probably hear back from you not very nice comments on what I wrote. But we are all grown up people here, so even though everybody has their own point of view you, guys, should at least try to be respectful and dont misinterpret words of other people.

Dear Nataly,
Welcome to RWD, the place where we share our lives and experiences and help one another out.

I know that a lot has been written here.  But if you read what I wrote several pages back, you'll see that I was not defending group tours at all. In fact, I ranked them the least best way to find an Eastern European wife.

What I reacted to was Jinx's words.  I challenged him when he wrote that "sleazy people" went to agency tour parties.  I told him that my wife had attended such parties, as well as a number of her friends.  My wife is a very nice person and a very nice girl, BTW.

What Jinx should have done at that point was apologized for his offensive words. Instead, he backed off the word "sleazy" but still said it was not a good place to meet "quality" women.  Here are his words:

"Maybe "sleazy" is too strong a word, but a tour is not something I would ever feel comfortable doing, and I don't think it's a good way to meet quality women."

Nataly, everyone is entitled to his or her own view.  But knocking someone you don't know is in very poor taste, and I will not allow Jinx to continued to insult my wife and her friends without responding to it.  Yes, they are quality girls.

And like I said, I am not defending tours.  And your implying that Jack gives me a discount is wrong, wrong, wrong.  I have never met Jack.  I have never been on an agency tour.  I did not meet my wife at an agency party.

In this world, there are few or no absolutes.  That's where Jinx messed up, by making first an absolute statement about people who attend agency parties.  He finally today has written "I also said it's not a GOOD way to meet quality women, didn't say there was NO quality women there."

But notice his words-- "I don't think it's a good way to meet quality women."   That DOES mean that he does believe that most of the girls there are NOT quality.  

If not, why would he even say such a thing?

Jinx has never attended an agency party. Neither have I. But I know my wife has, and I know a dozen of her friends that have. So I can defiantly say it IS as good way to meet girls. And since Jinx introduced the adjective "quality," I'll be forced to use it too.  

It's a good way to meet quality girls.

I like to be positive in life and I would never have used the attack Jinx did in stating my opinion.  

I wish he had simply given his opinon of the social situation of a group party without attacking the "quality" of the people who attend them.

I'm sorry he did, and I'm sorry he did not adjust at once and apologize.

Good luck in your relationship with him...

~Darth

[RESQU]

I do not get a "discount" either.  I wonder if Lucky Lovers is paying you and Jinx to say you met on there?  Its the same thing to assume this is it not?   Do not forget that there are MANY people who see men and women who use online dating, like you chose to do, as desperate people who cannot meet someone in the "normal way."  An opinion, which I have heard before is also that "NO respectable woman would advertise herself on the internet."  See now doesn't that offend you even the slightest way?  The large group tours in my opinion are not a good way to meet.  I did not and still do not think the way Jacks tour is anything close to them.  As Turbo has graciously always posted that it is possible to disagree with another's opinion WITHOUT using inflammatory comments.  I will help a little with this one, it would state your opinion to simply say " I wouldn't like going to the party's or to meet someone that way, and my girlfriends said the same"  Instead of saying a man has no self respect if he does.  There are plenty of things from your personal situation that people here could attack very easily, and it would be just their opinion however, its not polite and probably not true of you. 

All I was attempting to say on this thread is that the way Jack's business is run seemed to me to be very different from the big tours I think you are familiar with.  My GF would not like going to the parties either, Jack's or the other ones.  But in my opinion and from talking to the women I went on dates with many did not see anything wrong with it.  Two women that come to mind I really enjoyed dating and talking to.  One was a Neuro Surgeon (not a pervert doc lol) and the other a lawyer.  Both very intelligent women and openly told me they regularly date Russian men.  One joined the agency because she was open minded about the possibilities of meeting her "second half"  wherever he may be from.  The other answered my advertisement the same way you met online.

[Turboguy]

I have heard a lot of women complain about the big agency tours.   Many said they felt like cattle for sale. 

I remember sitting at my table at a big agency tour and looking around the room and feeling sorry for a lot of the gals.   Most had fun even if they didn't meet any guys, some didn't but things felt very stiff to me.   I invited a couple of gals to my table just because I thought it might make them feel better since no one had paid much attention to them.  I would say half the gals there never talked to a man.

When I was at Jack's tour, I never felt that way.   The gals seemed like they were having a good time and meeting men.  The guys felt comfortable.   I saw a few gals that seemed like they did not have much luck.   I think some of the guys heads were spinning with so many women.   All in all it worked good. 

[START2]

Miss Nataly,
     I think both of you don't understand how this thread became a debate. David seems to get offended when someone disputes his opinions and cries foul. It's true we all have our opinion. What David does, and I went back to read some of his comments, is throw out his suttle insults and then softens them with comments like, this is not say.....etc. It's like he says, Turbo, you seem like a nice guy but you sure use a sleazy way to meet women. My wifes asks, who's judgement is it to say what makes this a sleazy way to meet people? Sure, we can have our own preferences as to the way we choose to meet people, but some people, and for the sake of this discussion, I see nothing wrong with meeting several women at one time in a social setting and have fun doing it.  Obviously some people join an agency and use that avenue. Is that sleazy? Some might think so. Does it make you sleazy? Konyeshna nyet!  Are you the one to draw the line where and when a woman/man become a sleaze? I hope not?  David, have you ever went to singles bar hoping to meet a woman? Is/ was that sleazy? Nataly, did you ever join an agency or go to a club looking to meet a man? Was that sleazy? I wouldn't think so. Did you ever try to matchmake to friends? I hope that both of you can understand that all these situations are viable ways to meet people. You can't play holier than thou.
  The thread is about group tour or go it alone. I have no facts but would venture to say that most men here have met there wife/gf with the help of an agency, group tour, or some type of forum ie ICQ etc. There are a few of us here that used neither. We had different situations. We had friends that introduced us or work settings where we met our mate. To start name calling because you used a different venue than someone else isn't fair. If you had a best friend that decided to one night go to a social because this guy had flown thousands of miles to meet her and a few other women would you stop being her friend? Did it make her dirty? I don't know you but I hope you wouldn't. Ok, ....I see where you had friends that went to a social. They didn't like what they saw. But guess what? It was possible at the time that they could have met a great guy. I'm sure they didn't walk outta there feeling dirty.
   Everyone has a preference. What they think might work for them. I hope that everyone here finds the person they want to share and build a future with. Who knows when or where or how that "MAGIC" will  happen. Welcome to the USA.
  
  
    

[START2]

Darth,
 My wife just read your last post and gave you the 
  Good post. You said it better than I did.

[jinx13]

 I do realize I made some mistakes with words I have chosen to use, but Darth, sorry man but you are rediculous. You keep bringing up the word "sleazy" and misuse the way I wrote it in every one of your posts, this time you say

I challenged him when he wrote that "sleazy people" went to agency tour parties.

  Do you want to keep misquoting me some more or what? I can't even read your posts anymore because I just can't get past how you completely get it wrong everytime.

 RESQU, START2,  I am pretty new to forums, I didn't mean to offend anyone, so if I" softened up" it's because I realized it, and thus backed off. I made my point about what I don't like about the idea of a tour many posts back, doesn't matter if it's Jacks or a large social, my g/f Nataly are in agreement about it, I just think there are many better ways to meet your future "other half" 

 What Nataly said about Jack giving a discount got me wondering, I know he advertises here, and there seems to be a lot of support for him too, but I have heard from others some not so good things about your idol Jack. I have only had some written exchange with him, and didn't much care for him, but I never met him so I won't judge him. What's his story, is he married to one of these prfect girl's from his tour, or still single? Would be interesting to know 
By the way, Lucky Lover's doesn't advertise here, so it's not exactly the same is it? I only mention that website because I personally think it's a great way to meet people.

 Yes, there are many , many ways to meet, but some ways seem odd to me, and a tour is one of them. Would you guys also go to those speed dating meetings here in the states? It's just a personal thing with me, some ways just seem more respectable than others, and I am NOT trying to offend anyone by saying that, just trying to make you understand the way many people (not just me) feel about Tours, and group meetings. I also understand your point of view, and I have also learned a little more than I did previously about tours, and why some of you like them. I hope it works for you, good luck.

 and now DARTH will quote me and say that everyone that goes to a tour is not respectable!     that mask is cutting off the circulation to his brain

[Turboguy]

Jinx, you asked about Jack.  His story is posted here.   Basically he was married to a RW for quite a while  6 or 7 years if I recall correctly.  When they married they discussed children and both agreed they did not want any.   The two were totally in love but suddenly she had to have a child and that desire became stronger than her feelings for Jack so they divorced.   Jack was busy meeting a lot of women on the tour himself. 

As far as your comment about not caring much for Jack.  Jack has a very strong personality.   He is very passionate about what he does.  Some guys would be turned off by him I am sure and others would realize that they will never have anyone in their corner and fighting for their success as much as Jack.   I have seen some posts where someone had a problem with Jack and I have seen a lot of posts that talked about the good side of what he does.  I have seen far more positive posts than negative posts.

Jack does not advertise here.  He does advertise at RWG.  Jack does post here frequently and usually his advice is good.   He has said a few things that go against my logic or ideas but most of the time I agree with him and understand his logic and feel most of his ideas are good.   In talking to one of the guys who was with me, he and his buddy both found gals they considered their # 1 gal.  They talked about English lessons for them.  Jack suggested they tell the gals that if they would pull their profile they would pay for English lessons.   Both gals got upset and dropped the guys.   In that particular case it was not good advice.   Maybe it will work 90% of the time but it didn't there.   

Would I try speed dating her in the states.   I would try it, why not, you never know what will work until you try it.  Of course I wouldn't really because I have no interest in meeting AW.

It is a very diverse world.  Not every RW wants an AM  Not every 70 year old man wants a 21 year old gal.   Not every man wants a slender woman.  Some guys like a womanly figure,  I am not one of them.  Not everyone is going to feel a tour is for them.   Not long ago I felt the agency route was not for me, but I don't feel that way now.  Not everyone will think a tour is a good idea.  I do, you don't.   That is part of being an individual.

There is a big difference in Jack's tours and the big agency tours.   Sleazy people.   If you think scammers and pro daters are sleazy (I do) then you will find sleazy people at the big agency tours.   To be honest I saw a few men who seemed sleazy as well.   I didn't see that with Jack's tour.   I do think a few of the gals were there because there was nothing good on TV that night but that is the exception.

I have heard good things about Lucky Lovers.  As a matter of fact when we were in the sorting through women for the tour stage, Jack recommended a Lucky lover membership to line up some women for the tour.

Jinx.  I am not saying this to be negative towards you.  I just want to point out that you are creating some of the problems for yourself.   When you say things like

"I do realize I made some mistakes with words I have chosen to use, but Darth, sorry man but you are ridiculous."
and

"that mask is cutting off the circulation to his brain "
You are just inviting more criticism.   If you want the fires to go out, you might want to stop throwing fuel on it.

[jinx13]

 Turbo,

  Nice post, and thanks for the background on Jack. Like I said, I don't judge him.

 As far as Darth is concerned, I'm not fanning flames, just letting somebody know he has an irritating habit of misqouting people, and not understanding the meaning of what was really written. that's all   

[PeeWee]

I can't read all of this so I skipped it. If I were not semi commited to one lady. I do just one at a time. I would try the tour. I suspect that the movie "A Foreign Affair" affected me in some way. Those lads looked like they were having a dang good time. It sounds to me as if the Turbo boys has their fair share of good fun as well. It seems to me that whether one trys the tour, or the Internet agency, or the back alley or trusty wood...they were getting their share. They were working on their night moves. Out Bob Seager! Out of my head!

Anyway. I can see a value to the tour. I believe in guides, be it fishing or touring Egypt. To employ a guy that knows the ropes can save one much time and money. I like that idea.

Peewee

[Admin]

I am David's ( jinx13) gf. I was just reading this topic and wanted to make comment.

START2 and Darth Vader, I dont understand why you are getting all defensive about tours. Everybody can have their own point of view on what is better way to meet women. I think men that respect themself will not go to the tour more than once. I can understand men going there because they are curious to see what it is like when girls are "fighting" for you ( suddenly dreams of some men start to come true for several thousands $). I can understand women that go there from boredom (everybody needs entartaiment), but I dont think most of the women dont take it serious.
I have lots of friends who went on the tours and they were not very excited about what they saw. Well to tell the truth I would never marry a man I met on the tour, it is just doesnt seem right to me.
Since you are defending tours so much I think you make nice advertisement for Jeck on that forum. Does he give you discount at least?
I will probably hear back from you not very nice comments on what I wrote. But we are all grown up people here, so even though everybody has their own point of view you, guys, should at least try to be respectful and dont misinterpret words of other people.

Nataly

I thought I might jump in with a few comments.

First - welcome Natalya. Your perspective is a good one.

My experience with 'socials' (or whatever they call them) is pretty restricted. I visited two - and both times, I was already involved with Olya (my wife) and during one of them she went with me. That time was Jack's first social and he was unable to personally attend. Since I was in Kyiv already, and since several of the people who worked for me were helping Jack to arrange things, I dropped in once or twice to see how things were going - and I have to say that everyone seemed to be having a good time and it did not appear to be awkward or uncomfortable for anyone.

The other experience with a social was that I had several people in Kyiv working for me (in my REAL business) over the years. One of them had a lovely wife who worked in the Hotel business. For those who recall, the Hotel Ukraina (now the Premier Palace Hotel), was her place of employment and she was one of the managers there. She told me of a social which was scheduled in the hotel for a bunch of German guys. Not sure who the organizer was - but I stopped in to take a peek and it was a whole bunch different than what I later witnessed at Jack's gathering. For one, there were some pretty (I *will* use the word) sleazy looking women there, and I know with certainty the organizers had panicked when some of the ladies had not arrived, and they went to the streets with Hr. to entice some additional women to make an appearance. Having lived in Germany, I have some sense of normal - and the majority of the guys at that social were pretty normal, with a large minority who appeared very ABnormal.

In sum, I was OK with the social scene at Jack's gathering - and could have seen myself participating in something like that. OTOH, I would have been acutely uncomfortable at the German social, and I also know from my friend's wife that many of the girls complained about the 'environment' - and I do not mean the hotel.

RESQU, START2,  I am pretty new to forums, I didn't mean to offend anyone, so if I" softened up" it's because I realized it, and thus backed off. I made my point about what I don't like about the idea of a tour many posts back, doesn't matter if it's Jacks or a large social, my g/f Nataly are in agreement about it, I just think there are many better ways to meet your future "other half"

I think you are doing fine. You have strong opinions - and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Just be prepared to accept that others also have strong opinions, and the potential for some clashing is present.

BTW - Jack is one who has very strong opinions, so it is no surprise you might clash with him. You can take heart in the knowledge that others (MANY others) have preceeded you. 

Jack does not advertise here.  He does advertise at RWG. 

Yeah... hey Turbo, would you have a talk with Jack about that? I sure could use his advertising $$ more than EC does. 

- Dan

[Bruno]

Jinx, you asked about Jack.  His story is posted here.   Basically he was married to a RW for quite a while  6 or 7 years if I recall correctly.  When they married they discussed children and both agreed they did not want any.   The two were totally in love but suddenly she had to have a child and that desire became stronger than her feelings for Jack so they divorced.   Jack was busy meeting a lot of women on the tour himself. 

It is not really how it was explain by Jack himself in his story topic... When they have married, they have speak about children but Jack have no say "yes" or "No"... simply say that they will see later... later, Jack have not wish children and his wife have wish children... Jack and his wife who allays strong in love but Jack have accept to divorce for give her freedom to his wife...

In some way, Jack have admit to have make a mistake ( not having take decision about children before the marriage )... and he have ball big like these of a bull for post it on a open forum... but these topic is something that every men who seek a women need to read... how little detail can make big problem later...

NOW, about "group tour or go alone" ... maybe it is need to change the title... "group tour or browse online catalogue"... i think that a group tour is a first step... a method for initial contact... it is more similar to browse a online catologue...

See the Turbo case... he have find a few women on the tour... and now, he is going alone for visit his selection...

If he was making only tour in the hope to be married after a tour, he will be on the wrong way... but he use tour like other use online catalogue... so, nothing wrong with these method... maybe more expensive but have already know a face to face, know that the lady is real and how she look in reality...

[Turboguy]

In Jack's thread about his marriage, I remember commenting that children was something you should agree on well before a marriage, so I agree with you Bruno.   Even with the gals I met at Jack's social it was one of the things we talked about in our first meeting.

I agree that the socials are a lot like looking through a catalog except you can get a little better feel for them.   They are not a place you can make a serious decision about anything except do you want to get to know them better.   There is time and techniques for following up if you do.

I also agree with Dan's statement about Jack having strong opinions.  That could even be an understatement.   I have no doubts some people would clash with him.  I do think too that he tries very hard to make sure everyone has good results.   I haven't talked to Jack since I came back but I will pass the word along when I do.

[Michelangelo]

Maybe "sleazy" is too strong a word, but a tour is not something I would ever feel comfortable doing, and I don't think it's a good way to meet quality women.

Hi, David.  Best wishes to you in your relationship.  You are very fortunate to have found your girl in the states--you'll save thousands of dollars and avoid lots of jet lag.

Like you, I agree that an agency social is not the best way to meet girls.

But I have to disagree with your quote above.  You see, many of us married or engaged guys at RWD met our girls via an agency.  And it's very commen for the agency to have a party when a group like Jack's visits the city, and they invite their ladies to attend.  My girl has attended these socials, and she is definitely "quality."  And I've met her friends that go with her, and so are they.

Many girls enjoy attending these socials and chatting with each other and in the mix of men, there are a few good ones :-)  In fact, I would say the guys have it best--there are lots of "quality" women there to meet.

So I'll have to agree with you about the social not being the best way to meet girls in the FSU; however, I disagree with your quote that it's not a good way to meet quality women, because that quote is a slam to the girls who attend, and like I said, that's many of the wives and girlfriends at RWD.

[Bruno]

What is a quality woman ?

[Darth Vader]

Jinx, I was going to drop this silly debate about semantics after your last post.  I think you should have listened to the advice of Turboguy, and the flames would go out.

"that mask is cutting off the circulation to his brain "
You are just inviting more criticism.   If you want the fires to go out, you might want to stop throwing fuel on it.

But now you have posted again twice, saying I misquoted you, so I will respond one last time.

_______________________________________________________________________

When you first made that comment about the people who attend socials, I wrote you:

Whoa, back off, David.  Maybe you did not intend to, but you imply that ladies that go to agency parties are sleazy.  NOT TRUE!  My wife attended several agency parties before I met her, and many of her friends went with her.  I just mentioned your comment to her, and it made her mad.

She said the main reason she went to the socials was to practice her English with native speakers in a safe environment.  And if she met someone interesting, that would just be a bonus.

To me, there are multiple ways to meet FSU women, and I'll not take shots at any of them.

I believe living in the city for a month or so is the best route, but short of that, I would rank agency lists or free lists number two and group tours number 3.  But all are valid, and men have been successful with each.

I did not misquote you, I clearly said (see above) that your words IMPLY that sleazy people go to agency parties.  I then supplied you personal information that countered that, saying my wife had attended.

But instead of backing off, or saying something like "I did not intend to offend the men here whose wives attended agency parties,  you wrote:

Maybe "sleazy" is too strong a word, but a tour is not something I would ever feel comfortable doing, and I don't think it's a good way to meet quality women.

And you write that I misquote you?  These are your exact words.

Yes, Jinx, quality women attend agency parties, and especially the parties that we are discussing in the Turbo strand and this offspring of it.  And yes, you can meet these quality girls there.

On a lighter note, if you don't like my mask, I'll take it off. :-)

[Nataly2202]

I was reading all the things you guys wrote about tours and guess what, I have a beutiful idea. I want to make my own tour for all of you:) who likes this way to meet your future wife. Really, I am serious how about going to Nataly's tour? I have a lot of quality and beutiful friends:) Let me know if you are ineterested. And the prices are going to be really cheap by the way.
Also I want to say sorry for all the peple who were offended by "the word" sleazy. I wonder if it is possible not to quote it any more because it is getting old. I can understand that you are really hurt, but maybe it is time to get over it. The life goes on...

[ConnerVT]

I haven't read completely through this thread, but what I have read on the past few pages made me think of something:

The way people are looking down on people involved in socials and tours is similar to the way other green card holders look down on those who arrived on K-1 or K-3 visas...

FWIW