Just friends(?)

[BillyB]

 she sends me an email advertisment she got about taking a trip to the carib and wanted to know if I'd go.

DKMM,

I think she's working you. First she suggests the idea of the vacation but based on your 2nd and 3rd posts, you were afraid she was going to back out because of unexpected expenses you'll have to take care of and she was reluctant to go until you convinced her that her ticket will be free because of soon to be expired miles. Nothing is making much sense but I'm taking your word that this is what's going on.

[AUsteve]

I suggest that you go with no expectations of romance; hang out as friends. If something blossoms organically then great, but if you're wanting to force a relationship to happen then things may go pear-shaped quite rapidly.

My current girlfriend and I were friends first before becoming more than friends, but it was quite a natural transition as neither of us had expectations of a relationship. Just relax, have fun and ride the destiny train. You should be taking this trip with the mindset of being content that you will never see her again in person and be comfortable with that.

The less you care about romance the more potential there is. The more you care about romance the less potential there is. Oh, and AJ's right about the "out of my league" thinking. Even if she wants something to happen, nothing is going to happen with that mindset. Women love confident men.

[DKMM]

AU Steve, that's exactly how I'm playing it.  I like the relax and ride the destiny train.  That's pretty much her attitude as well...

BB,
I never meant to convey she was reluctant to go.  It was always her idea to go, as long as I was willing to go with her.  My fear was based on 1.) me convincing her to allow me to use my miles on her ticket so we could split a much nicer hotel,  2.) the embarassment of convincing her i could use the miles, making plans on it, and then not being able to use them afterall.  3.)  she realized she is saving so much (by not having to pay for the airfare) that she extended the trip by 3 days.  That also meant she took the time off work, at which point i did not want to tell her "oops you gotta buy your airfare sorry and go for 3 less days now"

Me eating the airfare was because of my own foolishness... but I appreciate your angle because it made me think about it more.  And no, I won't allow or expect her to think we are splitting dinners and such.  I learned that even as friends RM pay for their female companions when they go out somewhere.

[DKMM]

I talked with her about it tonight.  I went with the you know we are just friends right?  She totally agreed and we laughed about it, like "how weird would that be?"  I'm perfectly fine with it, in fact more relaxed now.

This is great, because now I will know what its like to basically live for 10 days with a FSU girl, complete with the limited english and all the little stuff that occurs.  All without the stress of "trying to make it work."  Who knows, maybe after this I'll decide I'm not up for it!   

[Sohkay]

DK,
I think you've got it now. Exactly right.
Now, the next big test...she needs to show up.
Just keep your cool.
When is this trip happening?
Sohkay

[KenC]

DKMN,
And you never heard of "friends with benefits?" 
KenC

[Jumper]

DK-

so you talked and its basically cleared up as "just friends"

and hey, at least joking around about it, gets it out there on the table
anything can happen.. *shrugs*
as kenC mentions there is always the freinds with benefits thing,
but there is normally no planning to that stuff, and seldom shared big vacations etc.


 i have my doubts you'd have planned this whole trip , and funded the bulk of it, if you knew for certain it was going to be "just hanging out as friends" and thats *it*
your other feelings and aspirations of " i cant let my dream girl slip by" seemed at the base of it.

 It seems like you have a good attitude about it ,, a "what the heck" it might have a good time anyway..

but i dont think you  can compare spending time with a "buddy/friend" (one who you do have romatic intentions for even if not recipricated)
in an exotic location,
 as any measure of what it would be like in a relationship with a sincere romantic interest
(even for 10 days, especuially with  a *dream girl* you were hung up about, that had a *thing* for you in return)
completely different scenerios?


even with the laid back attitude, this seems/appears desparate..
 
lets face it , as innocent as it might sound..

not many preople will go on a vacation(fund a big part of the other persons trip)
  with a relative stranger (youve met once briefly)
not share a common romatric interest in each other,
not share a common language perhaps? or have a somewhat limited abilty to communicate..?

lets put it in perspective-
tell some random person on the street
"i'm going to meet some laotian girl , ive met briefly once before(when i was visiting romatic interests in laos) ,
 we are just friends and have no romatic inrterst,,
she speaks ok english, but it is limited..
and i'm paying a good portion of her trip"

theyd wish you to have a good time, but think your pilot light was  flickering a bit?

not trying to rain on the parade..
i've  just seen so many guys (including a buddy of mine)
 have romatic notions for , and spend gawd knows how much time and money chasing ,  "friends" especially in the RW situation.

and there just doesnt seem to be much need for the risks..

at its base isnt that the whole idea of looking outside your local dating pool?
to increase the number of women romatically interested in you..


there are probably no end to the number of LOCAL *just friends* you can have -
without
- traveling around the world, or paying thier way on a vacation.


just my cynical take..
*shrugs*
l
 

[BillyB]

DKMM. the risk outweighs the rewards. I've heard this woman is beautiful and possibly a dream girl but this woman hasn't proved that she's high quality marriage material and this trip will not help you come one step closer to knowing that. The money is spent and you're forced to proceed.

I don't know how you could come to the conclusion that this endeavor may not be for you based on this trip. First, exotic vacations should be saved for fiancees and wives so you're doing this backwards. Second, if this doesn't work out romantically, it's because you're just "friends" and you should expect nothing to happen. You've given youself a minimum chance to succeed reminding her this is just a "friends" vacation on the phone. I would be a little more honest and tell her your hopes that you wish things would progress to something more serious.

[KenC]

AJ/Billy,
Take a moment and look at this trip from the girl's perspective.  As I see it there are two distinct possibilities: the girl is "really" only interested in a friendship with DKMN or she is using the "friends only" designation as an escape clause in case she doesn't like him.  Women say things all the time that they really don't mean as a method of protecting their self interest.  Are they lies?  Sometimes they are, but most often they are things they wish were true or things they think they should say to protect their image and reputation.  Unfortunately, we men do not have the code book to interpretate which is which. 

For example, my (now) wife once told me that "there would be no sex before marriage."  Not like I haven't heard that one before!   I thought "right, OK, whatever" and moved on as if nothing had been said.  But if you inspect the true reason why she said those words we might gain some insight to DKMN's situation.  My wife thought she had to verbalize a moralistic stance in order to maintain her own self image and reputation.  Did she really believe in abstinence before marriage?  No.  But she was setting the ground rules for me, if I had "other" ideas.  (Just for the record, I had it already set in my mind that sex wasn't going to be my goal during this time period of our relationship because if we did, I knew I would be toast) 

We all can debate and offer up opinions on what is going to happen (or not happen) on DKMN's trip until the cows come home, only time will tell the tale.  Maybe they will be just friends and maybe they will be very good friends!
KenC

[Jumper]

KenC -
 well stated , and in principle i agree.

but we silly men do normally have an idea of those signals ,
and why certain things are said (you knew, yea? )

 as i mentioned in earlier posts in the thread-
i agree that you cant get a hit, if you dont swing the bat..

and by going on a trip ,sure  its more chances to be around her, than DK had..
but with her stating things are a certain way,
 he can only "hope" for another..
she  doesnt appear to be  sending mixed signals.

your romantic interest wasnt either.she was still showing real interest in you --

unlike this girl,
 as you mentioned, we can speculate about motivations forever, but i'm inclined to believe her..take her at her word and actions so far,,
and think she views this as exactly what she says it is, a fun trip, with a friend.certainly for her. 
 shes paying (at least she thimks) which further makes it more 'just friends"

your own situation was  different in some key aspects?
you were going to see her with full intentions of it NOT being romanticly involved,, and planned to see other women in tver.
plus you hadnt met yet.

if L, after your meeting in tver,  had contended you were just friends, i have my doubts you would have later taken her on some vacation?

DK , has met her, and it was as just friends, and still remains so..
he is going into this  with
 "wow its my dream girl and a just gotta take this shot..and see how it plays out"
and thats cool.*shrugs*

but overall instead of swing, it it seems more like bunt.

 just saying if i was in his shoes - i'd strike out swinging.
and likely with someone else!!!
 that i KNEW was interested, or at the very  least, sending mixed signals.
 if i had a past history of flirting around with her, and she was sending mixed signals-
THEN i might entertain the notion of seeing her on some exotic vacation
(he already took swing and met her in her home city as just friends)

anyway its already a done deal..
so DK might as well go enjoy his time.
He will probably have fun.

i'm just thinking he could have found someone with real romatic interest to share such a trip with..
and it hits close to home as i have a buddy right now going to DR to meet  a girl that i personally know has no interest in him.ive told him, he is stil going.. lol

[KenC]

AJ,

if L, after your meeting in tver,  had contended you were just friends, i have my doubts you would have later taken her on some vacation?

Um, er, I think you got me on that one!  Just as a side note: if a girl brings up not having sex without any provocation, it means she is the one thinking about having some!
KenC

[SANDRO43]

How about setting up a poll, or better yet a lottery, to conclude this rather pointless thread ?

[Michelangelo]

just saying if i was in his shoes - i'd strike out swinging.
and likely with someone else!!!

Of course she wants more than "just friendship!"

And like AJ, I'd swing away!   Then you'll know...

Give it your best shot, and if you get rejected, you'll know it's a wasted trip, in terms of advancing your romantic goals.

But get the bat off your shoulders, DK.

[Jumper]

to conclude this rather pointless thread ?

hey now! arnt they all ?
 when it really comes down to it? 

3rd base coach Michealangelo says swing away..

head coach KenC says take this pitch , but if the pitcher does toss up a freebie ,   knock it out of the park!

at any rate , we all agree dont bunt.


i know, i know, it's not october anymore..

[DKMM]

OK Sandro you wanna place bets?  We need lines on:  1) if she shows, 2) if she throws a wrench in the plans last minute (like "oh btw my dad is coming") 3) if we stay friends or fall in love.

Sokhay, we are going the week over new years.  That's why the miles didn't work, they ran out of seats during this "peak" travel time.  One of many lessons already learned.

BB, how would I not find out more about her on this trip?  Certainly I'll come away with a better idea of her and I believe learn enough on the way to learn more overall about this.  If we don't click, I won't keep pursuing.  I'm still a relative newbie at this, just hope it isn't a lesson learned the hard way.

AJ your POV is very enlightening, I have to clarify her English is not bad, probably a 3.75 out of 5.  Its off enough though to make me repeat things to her, but not a problem.  I am also looking forward to practicing my Russian (I'm a 2 out of 5).  

Its too late anyways because I'm already all in... I cannot walk away from my investment.  The conversation was lead in the direction of friends by her so I jumped on clarifying it first to save face and make her feel good about it.  Now I know I'll have to find interenet access there and post my TR in progress.  Maybe like Wiz but hopefully less drama.  

Sure I took a shot and who knows if it will work.  I will swing the bat of course, but also I consider it a success if I solidify a friendship out of it and gain real experience day to day with a FSU girl.  Afterall, when I'm floating in the caribbean sea, I will be glad that I'm not freezing my hiney off in Smolensk chasing girls around.  I once went to the carib with a girl that I had recently broke up with.  It was awkward but still very fun.  After this trip I will have 3 months to plan my return to the FSU with more experience.

sound like enough rationalization?