Quandary – Choosing between two Women

[Turboguy]

No, BC My prevous post was about my thinking at various stages of my life.   It had nothing to do with age difference.    Age difference is his age minus her age.   (or vice versa)   It is not age 31 or age 41 or age 51

I think Bucky is a very analitical person based on the background he has.  I think it is the way he is and you are right, there is nothing wrong with it.   I still think though he is picking the girl he is going to give his love to.   I don't think he is in love with either.  That is ok too.   

[BC]

<-- hands Turbo reading glasses 

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3060.msg57460#msg57460

[Turboguy]

Hands the reading glasses back to BC after cleaning them for him.

That post still refers to someones state in life at various points and does not refer to age difference at all BC.   It stated that in my opinion (which can also be called my two cents worth but that would be overpriced)   People were at the same stage in life at 31 and 41.  It could be a 31 marrying anyone at any age or even someone of the same age.   I want on to say that individuals have some fluctuations as part of thier make up.  I see 31 year olds that are very mature and others that are very immature.   I think we all do.

[jb]

vwvr,

You compare your own life’s situation and Turbo’s situation and you see the huge difference is there between yours and Turbo. Turbo’s life is full of various adventures, travels, meetings new people (most of them beautiful gals), seeing new place and so no. What about your life, JB? I think your life is full of a monotonic, dissatisfactions and joyless existence.

Don't make bets on that.  Sexually speaking, I've probable had more sex from better looking women by accident than T/G has on purpose.  As far as travel is concerned; wanna compare stamps in passports?  It would be shorter to make a list of those countries that I haven't seen, than the ones I have.  I only respond to your post because somehow you seem to seek my approval.  I don't believe that is likely to happen.  I think you both are playing at relationships and I smell another train wreck in the making.

T/G

The disturbing part to me was that jb's imagination was creative enough to find a tie between my comment and my situation.   My post was to try to express my thoughts about Gators situation.   My post had nothing whatsoever to do with the difficulties of age differences.  It had nothing whatsoever to do with my own situation.

It is not my fertile imagination that conjures up post after post in which you constantly harp on about how a 38 year age difference is of no concern in your relationship with vwvr and encourage Gator to follow suit, after he has repeatedly said it is bothersome to him.  He's the one who would have to live with any bad decision making in his life, not you.  Do you have any idea how disastrous it would be to haphazardly piss away his last K-1 entitlement?  Have you given any thought to how bad it will be for yourself?

If you really believe there is no difference between a 31 years old person and a 41 years old as viewed from the vantage point of a man in his 60's, then please put that crack pipe down and sober up.  Wake up and live in the real world.

[Turboguy]

vwvr,

Don't make bets on that.  Sexually speaking, I've probable had more sex from better looking women by accident than T/G has on purpose. 

As much time as you have spent in Russia I have no doubts you are right.    Perhaps we can refer to you as a reformed Albert LOL

As far as travel is concerned; wanna compare stamps in passports?  It would be shorter to make a list of those countries that I haven't seen, than the ones I have. 

Stamps in passports I might beat you on quantity only because of the life of a passport is a lot less than the life of a person.  My passport is 3 years old.  I have had to have pages added once and am running out of free pages now.  Lifetime, yes, you would leave me in the dust.

I only respond to your post because somehow you seem to seek my approval.  I don't believe that is likely to happen.  I think you both are playing at relationships and I smell another train wreck in the making.

Hopefully you have a cold and your sniffer is not working that well but I am not foolish enough to gloat or brag about something to which the answer lies in the future.  I feel very good about VWRW and the future we hope to have together.   I am also not foolish enough to discount the risks in any relationship particularly ones with both a culture and age difference.  Right now the most I will say is that we seem very well suited to each other and neither of us is going into this blind.  I feel quite comfortable about our hopes but I have no interest in bragging about anything, particularly at this early stage..
 
T/G

It is not my fertile imagination that conjures up post after post in which you constantly harp on about how a 38 year age difference is of no concern in your relationship with vwvr and encourage Gator to follow suit, after he has repeatedly said it is bothersome to him.  He's the one who would have to live with any bad decision making in his life, not you.  Do you have any idea how disastrous it would be to haphazardly piss away his last K-1 entitlement?  Have you given any thought to how bad it will be for yourself?

I think it is your imagination jb.  I don't remember mentioning that at all in this thread and I don't remember encouraging Gator to follow suit at all.  Without re-reading this thread completely, the only time I remember discussing VWRW at all was a comment pages ago that my former fiancee and VWRW were close to the same age but 20 years apart in their maturity.   The only time I remember talking about the age difference itself in relation to Gator was a statement I made that if we were talking about a 31 year age difference vs a 5 year age difference than I thought age difference might be an important factor.   

I think both the 21 and the 31 stretch what those who make a big deal out of age difference would consider desirable.   I won't say that 31 is not a bigger deal than 21, I just think if you stretch a rubber band, it is just a bit more of a stretch.

Have I thought about pissing away my last K-1 entitlement with VWRW.  Of course.   There is no one I would feel safer pissing it away with.   As far as Gator, he needs to think about that as he is.

If you really believe there is no difference between a 31 years old person and a 41 years old as viewed from the vantage point of a man in his 60's, then please put that crack pipe down and sober up.  Wake up and live in the real world.

I have not discussed the difference between a 31 year old and a 41 year old from the vantage point of a man in his 60's at all jb.  I don't have any experience to relate to how it would apply to Gator.  Gator is a very bright and great guy but he and I are at two totally different stages in life.  We are much further apart in our life stages than are the 31 year old and the 41 year old.   He has been at a stage for 10 years that I don't plan to hit for another 15.  I have to compliment him on that, but I am more than happy where I am too.  I would not have it any other way and if that was what I wanted then I would take myself to that stage. 

[jb]

T/G,

Now that's a lot of justification.

I do suggest you go back and re-read your posts, not only here but in other recent threads, (especially since you came back from your meeting with vwrw), in just about every other post you are crowing about your crowning success with a woman 38 years your junior.  How beautiful she is, how smart she is, and above all, certainly how mature for her age she is, when you put that part in I knew where it was headed.  Do you realize that every high school and college teacher who gets caught sampling the goods in his classroom says the same thing?  "But,,,but,,, she was so mature for her age..."  Whenever an older man uses those words referring to a woman young enough to be his child, he puts himself in the same bad light.

You may not like it, but in your heart of hearts, you know it's the truth.

[Turboguy]

Sorry jb, I thought we were talking about my comments to Gator.   If we are talking about vwrw and me we should do it in a thread other than Gators.

Yes, in other threads I have talked about vwrw and my great regard for her.  I have also talked in other threads about us both feeling lucky to have found each other.  I don't think that relates to Gator and if I have mentioned it in this thread it was casual.

I don't see the comparison with a teacher and his student.  I think teachers have a situation much like doctors and their patients.  It is a whole different ball game.

[KenC]

Turbo,
You said:

MOST people are in about the same stage of life at 31 & 41.   If I look at my own life at 31 and 41 I had the same business, the same wife, the same children, the same house, the same golf Buddy's, the same hobbies, read the same type of books watched the same type of movies and was equally miserable

Maybe you were stuck in the same rut for a long long time, but I don't believe that that is the norm,  Looking at my own life, I cannot follow your logic in any way for any 10 year time span.  At 31 I was married for 10 years, had kids ages 5 & 7, lived in a rural area in a Victorian colonial built circa 1878 and was in the midst of my first venture in being an entrepreneur.  At 41 I had just finished a very ugly and nasty divorce which was caused by my wife's changes due to her entering into a different stage of her life, kids were much different at 15 & 17, had moved back to a major metropolitan area (changed residences twice, built my primary home and a summer home along with 3 other investment properties) and had made a fortune in a completely different type of business.  Maybe my life has been more volital than most, but it seems as though your's has much more sameness than most.  Life is an evolution process and most people change over time, very few do not.
KenC

[jb]

Sorry jb, I thought we were talking about my comments to Gator.

We were,,, you just made the mistake of comparing Gators logic to yours.  Gator has his head screwed on straight, it's you I'm a little concerned about.

[jb]

I don't see the comparison with a teacher and his student.  I think teachers have a situation much like doctors and their patients.  It is a whole different ball game.

Then you don't live in the same world the rest of us do.  Robbing the cradle is not limited to teachers.  I don't have a problem with a medical doctor who meets his spouse first as a patient, since that would be by far the most people he would likely meet.  I read somewhere that about 3/4 of all marriages were from work related meetings.  I'm specifically referring to the 38 year age gap you are enjoying with vwrw, that's just kind of sick.

[Turboguy]

KenC,   My life has been far from boring.  As far as the stage my life was in there was no difference between 31 and 41 except my kids were older.  My first venture as an entrepreneur came at 21 by the way.   I have done lots of things that we impossible and for whatever reason seem to have some people who would gladly trade lives with me.   My life has had lots of ups and lots of downs.  I have tried to learn from the downs and to not take the ups for granted.   My life and yours and my life and gators are two different things.  

Typical, average people which you are not and I don't think I am either go through a period of trying to find themselves in their early 20's  they job hop, they date etc.  Then they usually find their mate and their career and go about living a life that includes raising a family, putting money in their 401K, taking a vacation once a year, watching their kids go off to school and then to their own lives, pay off their house, move a few times.  Babysit their grand kids, retire and try to enjoy their "Golden years"   Sound about right!  Yes there are stages but the Golden years don't come at the Cossacks age for most of us.

We were,,, you just made the mistake of comparing Gators logic to yours.  Gator has his head screwed on straight, it's you I'm a little concerned about.

Ahhhh, OK, jb   I am sure Gator has his head screwed on straight but if you look at the title of this discussion he is the one with confusion.   Can you find a post where I have any confusion about my gal.   My head is just fine.

As far as the sick part, everyone is entitled to his opinion.  Sometimes I value yours sometimes I don't.

[jinx13]

MOST people are in about the same stage of life at 31 & 41.   If I look at my own life at 31 and 41 I had the same business, the same wife, the same children, the same house, the same golf Buddy's, the same hobbies, read the same type of books watched the same type of movies and was equally miserable

T/G,

  I don't think too many people can relate to that general comment you made, you say MOST people, but I would say you're not even close.

 I am 38, not quite 41 yet, but still I think how my life has changed already from the time I was 31. I was in the middle of my first and only marriage so far, had a completely different life, career, and even different friends. Yes, deep down I am the same person, but with age and experience I also learn and adapt. For example I learned from my first wife the type of woman I DON'T want to marry again!    Seriously, I did learn to search out more easy going type women, life is too short to argue about stupid things.

 As far as your advice for Gator (drop them both, you must not be in love, or you would know it) when I first read it I could see the sense in it, then I compared it to my own meetings, and feelings I had toward the women I met. If I were to listen to the same advice I wouldn't be with my current g/f. When I first met her there were no lightning bolts hitting me in the head, I did not feel "in love", we started out as friends and got to know each other very well. We always had some kind of connection, but it took some time for that to grow into something more.

 I think Gator is thinking logically, and not like a lovestruck teenager. Maybe he does over analyze a little bit, and thats the other side of it, the older we get, the more we think about our actions, and try and not make the same mistakes, but we can also 'overthink' a decision. I think the best thing to do is think with your head, but follow your heart.

[IAmZon]

You know ... before I came to this place, I would have not believed any of this dialogue would be possible in the world I live in!

Now it seems to be the center of this inquiry for most men here.  I am beginning to sense that it is normal for an AM in the ages of 55 - 65 to find RW in the ages of 27 - 32.  That is sort of different by current standards in the US. 

But, who cares! If the man and woman are happy and willing <ARE THEY>, God bless em.    Would it not totally freak you out, however, to see a 26 year old man with a 60 year old woman?

[Turboguy]

Jinx,  I don't really think it is about the events in your life.  I think Gator is talking about the stage of your life.   Yes, my life may have been fairly stable from 31 to 41 but at most any other time there were changes in the events of my life but there has never been a change in the stage of my life.

Jinx, you are three years from a perfect example.  Let me ask you.  Do you feel in three years you will have moved from the phase of your life where you are concerned about making a living, having a carrier, and positioning your life and will have moved to a point where you are no longer concerned with those kinds of things and now primarily concerned with self actualization.  Traveling the world, studying the arts,  maybe charity work, maybe settin up some trusts to see your money is wisely used by the needy, perhaps even some serious stuff like the study of yoga or world religions.   Or Jinx, do you expect the "phase" of your life to be similar to now and similar to when you were 31.

[Darth Vader]

Hey guys,

When you "quote" someone, can you kindly attribute the quote to the person who wrote it?  Otherwise, why use the quote?

But back to the topic of this thread:  Bucky has his advice. If he is ok with a large age difference, that's fine.  It's between the couple, and every couple is different.  I know some 25 year old girls "going on 50" and I know some 50 year old girls who act 25.

Sure, it's ok to generalize, that's what norms are.  But there are always outlyers, and Bucky and his girl may be just that.  Same with Turboguy and Turbogirl.

Bucky, you are a statistician, you know the odds.

Best wishes!

darth

[jinx13]

T/G

  Maybe I misunderstood the context of this quote from you

Personally I can not remember a bit of difference in my thinking at 31, 41, 51, or 61.  Maybe it is a bad memory.   I am not even sure it was different at 21 but I did add some experience in the next decade.

 This didn't sound like somebody that had not changed their life goals, it sounded like you really had not changed your way of thought at all. At the end you say you added some experience after age 21, so your 30's, 40's, 50's and now 60's haven't changed your outlook on life, or your way of thinking?

 Yeah of course I'm not ready for retirement, or self actualization as you put it. I'm still in career and family building mode, but my experience has changed the way I think about those subjects too.

 If you are specifically speaking about Gator's girl that wants to "self actualize" and have some sort of spiritual journey or whatever at age 41, well then I might agree, she is still too young for all that, her golden years are still a few years out, she might wanna think about getting a job like a normal person, but hey, who wouldn't want to travel the world? I wish I could retire right now and see the world..there's a lot to see, I think that could keep me busy for awhile 

[Gator]

KenC, Turbo, JB et al

KenC apologized about the slight departure from the topic.  No need to apologize, and actually the discussion is relevant considering that it is about age, life stages, age difference, etc.  Besides I needed a rest from the analysis while I let some ideas incubate.

Turbo, you sure are resilient.  Maybe you will keep going, and going, and going, and going, and….  Were you on your school’s debating team? And I can believe that you were the same at 31 as you were at 41, and probably the same now. 

I am not the same.  I was fun at 31, incorrigible and intolerable at 41 (even switched to the Republican party), and now tolerable (still a Republican). 

I continue to disagree with you about the difference between a 31-yo woman and a 41-yo woman.  Look at the chart below. 



In my case, the 41-yo has met her needs for survival, security, social acceptance and self-esteem.  The 31-yo is a survivor (the nature of the RW).  Marriage will help with her security needs; however, she wants more.  She now wishes to work on her self-esteem; she has been a mother for her entire adult life and is not proud of that although she should be considering her fantastic kids.  She is not a housewife and wishes to accomplish something in the business world.

This is not a major issue.  Nor is the conflict with my Golden Years (which have nothing to do with a rocking chair). If we are true friends, which we are, we can reach some accomodation.



     


     


     

[Turboguy]

Nope, never on my High School debating team but RWD would be a good training ground for it.

Sometimes the best way to decide something is to get away from it for a while.

Yes, I learned about Maslow in my college psych class and it was one of the things that always stuck with me. 

I think you can love a lot of people at the same time.  You can love your kids, your parents, your dog, and more than one woman.  However I don't think you can be head over heals in love with more than one woman.  I think you have two good women to chose from and I think you will never be head over heals in love with either but love can grow and you can have a good and happy life.   Lots of people really never do fall head over heals in love so it is no big deal.

I think as far as survival, which ever of the two you would marry would move quickly past that stage.   I think that when it comes to feelings between two people what you feel is right in your heart is hard to decide by logic but I think too, you are more the logic type than I am. 

If I don't get dragged back into it I will be content to sit on the sidelines for a while.  I have said what I can think of on the subject.  Sometimes sitting on the sidelines gets a little hard here.

[IAmZon]

Gator,

If so much Western analysis is not providing any clarity ... try Eastern.

Some of the tenants of this psychology would center on the notion that you already "know" what is right for you ... you just have to "find" the answer within you.

If you imagine making your decision one way, very deeply and in great detail - how do you feel?  Then try the choice #2.

It will help to prepare your mind to develop the fullest possible visions of these possibilities EVERYTHING: feeling, color, smells.

What are the natural settings?  What is the physical placement of people and things.  What subconscious representations may you find here. Perhaps this may tilt the scale one way, or the other for you.  Why do you call one possibility #1 and the other #2? Nomenclature of symbol?

Another point central to Eastern thought has to do with the correct, or healthy ATTACHEMENTS.  The attachment that you perceive yourself having with your wife, and her to you.  Maybe this line of contemplation may be of use to you

I always find strong truths in Buddist thought.  Hope I did not turn anyone off with all this "hippy" talk.

[SANDRO43]

I always find strong truths in Buddist thought.

I seem to recollect that vairagya (non attachment) was the central point of BuddHist thought, e.g.:

Attachment is the origin, the root of suffering; hence it is the cause of suffering (The Dalai Lama at Harvard, 1988, Snow Lion USA, p.37)

Anyway, are years the significant signposts of our life, or rather the EXPERIENCES that mark it ? In other words, a person leading a dull, uneventful life probably will not change much (mentally) from one decade to the next.

[Gator]

Thank you Zen Master.

Both women have traveled to Thailand with me.  We climbed to small mountaintop temples.  We sat serenely.  No tourists.  No people.  No gongs, no chants, no mantras (ooops, wrong religion).  We were as close to contacting our own being as two wannabe initiates could be without a Zen guide.  What did I feel then:  All is as it should be.

I am not confused.

[Jumper]

 Bucky, i knew you wernt.. .


but i am.

I still cant figure out how ice, in a glass of tea, could be soo perilous and deadly only 3 years ago,

 yet today a frozen margerita is quite safe, deliciuos in fact,
and  as close to Zen as my RW cares to get..

here she is - well -
meditating-

wether to have another one..
(this thread was far too seriuos for me,, my apologies)
 

[Gator]

Thanks.  America has done nothing to change her shape you lucky dog.  You're lucky too, AJ.

[KenC]

AJ,
"I still cant figure out how ice, in a glass of tea, could be soo perilous and deadly only 3 years ago,

 yet today a frozen margerita is quite safe, deliciuos in fact"

Some things are easy to adjust to!

TFF!
KenC

[Jumper]

That I am bucky.

but our mutual friends would tell you she's the lucky one though..
and she would agree with them!  
might be hard to believe, but true story nonetheless.

maybe we make a bit of our own luck?


Bucky I honestly think its what got you in this dillima..
and because of that, firmly believe tyou will easily find the right path for you,,

or perhaps it is more accurate to say
you will likely make any of the three paths you choose ,
ultimately be the correct one.  


see ?
you knew i could get back on topic right Dan?