What's wrong with you, Americans?

[wxman]

[wxman]

I don't want a yellow card either, so I graciously give Elen the last word on this subject if she wishes. I enjoy good political discussions, but I admit that I aided in allowing the discussion to digress from what Elen's original topic was. My apologies.

[Bruno]

Maybe i can give the end words of these little politic speaking...

No one have not make mistake in the past... Russia with her republic, Europe with his African colonie, US with the indian...

These history show that we was not good and that we need learn from the past for this don't happen again... we cannot change the past but we can ready our future... a better future...

[Elen]

I don't want a yellow card either, so I graciously give Elen the last word on this subject if she wishes. I enjoy good political discussions, but I admit that I aided in allowing the discussion to digress from what Elen's original topic was. My apologies

 Apologies are taken

Obviuosly there is something in the air today that I'm lazy to continue with politic. (though let keep in your mind I came here not from some dating but from politic board:P. Pity MSN closed that FreeSpeahAmerica.com because I just would give you a link to "Russian thread" where there were all answeres to your statements) 

[acrzybear]

a painting titled "Deja vue"

[acrzybear]

so what we have? Bad history,weak ties with familieys after 18 ages, upbringing kids mostly with a help of TV shows, cocerning about only self esteem and little respect to "olders" and famous american free-speach (with suppoting your arguments with such perfect prove as gun)

Have I took  you right?

 

Elen

You have an interesting way of interpreting what people say, does America have bad history? Yes, but then again I guess Russia (Lenin & Stalin), Germany (Hitler), China (Tenamin square), France (the crusades), Italy (Christians, WW II) etc... all have perfect history and never abused or killed thousand upon thousands of people because of their religious and personal beliefs.  America has done things that (and probably will in the future) are wrong, such as internment of U.S citizens of Japanese descent, slavery and segregation of black people.  Every country has their dirty secrets and misdeeds and their own interests at heart.

I do not care what country you go to, the politicians are in various ways (some more then others) corrupt and have their own interests at heart and not the peoples.  It does not matter if it is the Communist Party, the Republican Party, Democratic Party or the Boston tea party!!!

 

The best thing about America is the ability to speak ones mind (the first admendment of the Constitution) and disagree with the government without fear of going to prison or being gassed or having a bullet put in the back of ones head.  I was a teenager during the latter half of the cold war and I remember former President Reagan calling Russia the "evil Empire".  Growing up,  the movies, media  and politicians filled peoples heads that Russians were evil and only wanted to destroy America. 

Growing up I was always fascinated with Russia and what is now known as FSU countries. I have learned certain things over time and two are that Russians can be very passionate and stubborn at the same time and a Russian can be your best friend or your worst enemy.

I do not always agree with you (you like instigate) but you do make some of the discussions more lively and interesting.  The thing is that some people have formed an opinion and no matter what you say or do they refuse to change their mind.


This is just a civil employees humble opinion, and you can take it or leave it

[Photo Guy]

1- Corruption and sin, if you will, exist in all societies.
2- Guns do not cause violence, people do. For example,
   Canada has more guns per person than the US and far less
   violence than the US, per capita. The difference is cultural
    attitudes.
3- In the US, there is too much acceptance of violence in the
    media. There is not enough public outrage to this violence.
    Video games desensitize children to violence, in my opinion.
4- Yes, violence in the US is a problem. In countries where
    the government has total control of its people, there is much less
    freedom. Freedom is very desirable in the US, so that makes it
    harder to control the violence here.

In my opinion, the problem is cultural here. It has little to do with
freedom or democracy. Instead it is like alcoholism in Russia.
A cultural problem that cannot be easily solved by rules of government. People do not trust the government enough to say, "Here, take away my gun". Americans are extreme about maintaining their freedoms. I hope you someday understand why. It is sometimes a fine line between harmonious freedom and devastating anarchy. The line needs constant adjustment.  Doug

[solomon]

Doug - I like your even handed approach to this topic. If anyone has "the answer" as to why there is so much violence related to guns in the US, call me anytime day or night.

The question is unanswerable. There is no clear explanation. Bowling for Columbine asks the question and Michael Moore follows just about every possible connection to come up with the answer. But it doesnt exist.

People can point to what they think it is, such as Marilyn Manson, movies, video games, the media, widespread use of guns in the US, lack of tolerance and understanding, but no single reason exists. 

One thing I really like about the US government is how that it feeds off the culture of fear that exists. Now everyone is a terrorist and all of your constitutional rights that have been the foundation of the this country are tossed out the window,

 

 

[Elen]

Certainly something wrong with you as "you" said Michael Jackson was not gilty( or sick) at all

[anono]

i see you sat on the jury, elen.

[MandM]

Certainly something wrong with you as "you" said Michael Jackson was not gilty( or sick) at all

I don't think he is guilty, but he is sure a sick man! I think he lives in his own confused world and he thinks that some things are normal, when to everybody else they are not. But I don't think he is evil. I pity him actually (I know I shouldn't  - he is richer than me!)

[anono]

i agree with mamp. the guy has serious problems, does not mean he is guilty of a possible set-up by a parent whose desire is to black mail money out of rich people. from what i understand, their child's safety was second to their desire to extort money...

twice now, a jury has found him not guilty. it means, even if he is guilty, they cannot successfully prosecute him. leave him alone.

maybe the parents should be tried for extortion and child endangerment.

what gets me about people who say "we" or "you" found him not guilty, all of america was not on the jury.

also, just like the infamous 3 million dollar mcdonalds verdict, all we read is what the papers print. we did not sit on the jury, we did not see and hear all the evidence. i read more about that verdict and not only was it just, but a jury of peers felt the same way, based on far more evidence than you will ever read outside of sitting on the jury. that we second guess so many things without all the facts should be the topic.

[mischief]

[user=300]M&M[/user] wrote:

I think he lives in his own confused world ...

 

yep, in Neverland!

[Donna_Pedro]

maybe the parents should be tried for extortion and child endangerment.

I agree with you.

[virginiajoe]

Elen and everyone else I agree with you.This should not have happened in a country like America.Guns are to easy to get here.The sad thing is not everyone buys them legally in the stores.
My Irina's mother told her to be careful and that she was afraid for her.Irina told her that I am taking good care of her and that Virginia is safe.Our neighborhood is country club compared to some areas.
It's so sad her mother sad that,but I understand why.We do need to be smarter in America,we can do better than this.

[corp]

Doug ........
One thing I really like about the US government is how that it feeds off the culture of fear that exists. Now everyone is a terrorist and all of your constitutional rights that have been the foundation of thethis countryare tossed out the window,

How have ALL CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS  been tossed out the window>?
I still have the right to freedom of speech, press, assembly, own a fire arm.....on and on.
What is this alarmist cry I always hear such as this?
People; every right granted by the constitution can be limited in three ways..
time
place
 and manor.
(You do not have the right to yell fire in a crowded theator)

The struggle is over how these limits are placed.

I think if Homeland security destroyed "all my rights".. I would know it.
Actually there are close to 400 million people in american, what percentage of those have suffered any harm by the homeland security laws?
Get real!

[corp]

By the Way Miss Elen, I own 8 guns for my "arsonal".
One is Russian design

If you are looking at movies made by Mike Moore for a learning experiance
you will find all the support for the conclusions you already have about these issues.

If you do a simple Google search you will see many web sites that document all the distortions and false info he wraps his movies in.


- people believe what they want to believe and
disregard the rest-

Paul Simon in "The Boxer"

[solomon]

Let me know how things work out when you receive a national security letter. Actually I wont know because you wont be able to tell me.

[corp]

Let me know how things work out when you receive a national security letter. Actually I wont know because you wont be able to tell me.

Wow I am really fearing the mail man now

Why don't guess at the answer to the question I posed?

<<Actualy there are close to 400 million people in american, what percentage of those have suffered any harm by the homeland security laws?

[solomon]

Let me know how things work out when you receive a national security letter. Actually I wont know because you wont be able to tell me.

Wow I am really fearing the mail man now

Why don't guess at the answer to the question I posed?

<<Actualy there are close to 400 million people in american, what percentage of those have suffered any harm by the homeland security laws?[/quote]There are no hard and fast numbers but the best conclusions are that numbers run into the millions. One of the biggest issues is that most of the people do not know about it.

[corp]

Let me know how things work out when you receive a national security letter. Actually I wont know because you wont be able to tell me.

Wow I am really fearing the mail man now

Why don't guess at the answer to the question I posed?

<<Actualy there are close to 400 million people in american, what percentage of those have suffered any harm by the homeland security laws?[/quote]There are no hard and fast numbers but the best conclusions are that numbers run into the millions. One of the biggest issues is that most of the people do not know about it. [/quote]


Solomon, how is it possible millions of people are getting national security letters and do not know it?
Why would you guess Millions?
How many people do you PERSONALLY know that are in this group?
Does anyone else reading this forum PERSONALLY know of any average joe-shmow citizen, arrested or injured by the government for no real reason, under homeland security?

I think these people crying Government intrusion, have no real idea what
oppression by the government really mean.
Where are the countless victims?
The only thing I ever hear about are a few isolated cases.

[TigerPaws]

[color="blue"][size="4"]Corp,[/size][/color] [color="blue"][size="4"] [/size][/color]  [color="blue"][size="4"]

 Now do not get me wrong I do not  trust Homeland Security (HS) to do anything right, that agency has turned into  what is most likely the biggest cluster *uck to come along in a very long time,  look at what they did with the old INS, what a mess that turned out to be. I am  with you on this issue I do not think HS is sending out millions of letters then  again most recently an 18 month old child was denied the ability to travel by  air because his name was on one of the terrorist watch lists. Ok I understand  that a poop filled diaper could be considered a bomb but really this is going a  bit to far isn't it?
 Government at work for your (our) benifit. Right and I have a bridge for sale if you believe that.
[/size][/color]

[Oosik]

The fact is, we can dig up plenty of stupidity, plenty of sad stories from any number of countries and ask "Whats wrong with you, XXXXXXX"

The fact is the US is not perfect. But is has the best form of gov't on earth, the most freedom, and our crime rates are dropping while crime rates in most European countries are rising.

I don't normally think in terms of polls, but of those who are dissatisfied with their own country, the vast majority wish to come to the US. People voting with their feet is a pretty good poll, and very few US citizens give up their citizenship.

Sadly, we seem to be suffering from some serious social, moral and intellectual decay as we get drug leftward by our media and courts, and away from Christianity by the ACLU and the ADL. Throw in the huge waste in resources thanks to trial lawyers, it is possible that we will lost our first place among nations. And yes, many europeans, canadians and US socialists will cheer.

Here is something:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1004/p07s01-woeu.html
Under new anti-terrorism laws, Internet cafes and others that offer telecommunications services in Italy must photocopy the passports of all their customers. Café owners must also record which computer a customer uses and each user's log-in and log-out times. They must also install software that tracks all of the Web sites users visit, and they must periodically turn those lists over to police.

http://icnorthwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/regionalnews/tm_objectid=16230300&method=full&siteid=50142&headline=blair--hate-crime--claim-is-being-investigated-by-force--name_page.html
Welsh police are investigating British Prime Minister Tony Blair for an alleged hate crime. According to a book by a former Labor Party adviser, Blair shouted "<snip>ing Welsh" at the TV while watching his party's poor showing in the 1999 elections for the Welsh Assembly. Police are investigating that claim.

I'll find something from the nations of all the folks on this thread, just to spread the pain. Of course Ellen, I am sure that your nation is a fine example of social justice, freedom and sanity, which is why so many of your beautiful young ladies want to meet and marry foreigners.

[corp]

[color="blue"][size="4"]Corp,[/size][/color] [color="blue"][size="4"][/size][/color] [color="blue"][size="4"]Now do not get me wrong I do not  trust Homeland Security (HS)to do anything right, that agency has turned into  what is most likely the biggest cluster *uck to come along in a very long time,  look at what they did with the old INS, what a mess that turned out to be. I am  with you on this issueI do not think HS is sending out millions of letters then  again most recently an 18 month old child was denied the ability to travel by  air because his name was on one of the terrorist watch lists. Ok I understand  that a poop filled diaper could be considered a bomb but really this is going a  bit to far isn't it?
Government at work for your (our) benifit. Right and I have a bridge for sale if you believe that.
[/size][/color]

I agree 100% with the lack of sensible immigration policy as well as some of these other concepts such as open borders to the south, failing to profile know groups... but what I was addressing was this idea that The Government wants to run around and gather everyones library records, if we are suspect or not.
The government is asking neighbors to turn over innocent people.
That "homeland security" is the EXCUSE to spy on people.

If this were the case, where are all these innocent US citizens of the stalinist rule of GW Bush?

MAybe I am wrong, maybe it is all around me and my friends are to affraid to tell me what happened to them and not loyal enough to warn me to be careful about which movies I rent or foreign food I eat.

[TigerPaws]

[color="blue"][size="4"]Oosk,[/size] [/color][color="blue"][size="4"] [/size]  [/color][color="blue"][size="4"]

 While I generally agree with you,  more and more Americans are voting with their feet as well and relocating to  more remote digs within and outside of America away from the growing problems in  our country. Sure many leftists and other countries would like to see America  become what they are and sadly some day they may get their wish, at least it  will not be in my life time. Then again I never thought I would see the fall of  the Berlin Wall and the total collapse of the Soviet Union or find myself with a  lady from the FSU, so who knows what the future will bring.[/size][/color]