Trip Report: Tver, Russia

[av8or1]

PROLOGUE:

Well y'all, I leave in two days for Tver.  It's kinda snuck up on me to be honest.  When I first made the arrangements it seemed so far away and now...it's here.  You know, it's kinda funny too.  Despite having been to the FSU several times before, those trips were mostly to Ukraine (once to Belarus, once to Azerbaijan and twice to Kazakhstan) where I feel more comfortable.  I have only been to Russia once, Moscow specifically.  So much there to explore too, it being the "mother country" and all.  But it seems "distant" to me somehow.  So in a way I feel like I am going into unchartered territory, off the map so to speak - and yet I am going to RUSSIA!  Hahaha!   It's not one of the "stans" or some other obscure place, but Russia.  Funny.  Yet real.

Anyway, some developments have transpired since the whole TverRomance thread, so I'll talk about that a bit.  I ended up deciding not to use Natasha's TverRomance agency but instead I will be using Marc Dayton's Lifetime Partners.  There was not a big, dramatic episode involved with it or anything, though I suspect that I'll get hammered by Darth, jb and the others, but whatever.  Natasha was very nice and professional to me, eventhough we didn't see eye to eye regarding the concept of letter writing.  To me it's a valuable tool to help you decide if a woman has the same basic goals that you do.  Chemistry is something that can only be determined in person of course.  She disagreed with my notion of letter writing, which we were amicable about, and that wasn't the reason I chose to switch to LTP.  The reason was that the communication I had with the women in her agency went downhill after it began.  Not in terms of the frequency of the letters I received, though that did decline after I joined, but rather in terms of what I thought the women in her agency (and who I was interested in meeting) were looking for.  I just didn't seem to "be on the same page" as they were...somehow.  In the end there were three women in TverRomance who I wanted to meet and I offered to pay for individual meetings with these women, but Natasha refused the offer.  So I won't be in their office at all during this trip.  I had intended to report back to y'all about her agency, but it looks like I will only be able to provide limited feedback.

Marc has been a great help.  The lady who runs the LTP office in Tver is named Nadezhda or Nadya and she is like a mother to all of the men who come over.  She found a new, modern apartment for me that is closer to the office and is working on my "wish list" of women, a term I still haven't quite gotten used to, but I digress.  So I will be able to give a full report on LTP when I get back.  I have bought some peanut butter and a bunch of candy for the office staff and will give that to them on Monday (I arrive on Sunday).  That was just part of my preparations, which seem never ending.

That having been said, I will be taking my laptop with me to Tver.  I have heard that you can purchase an "Internet card", which is much like a Sim card and use this "Internet card" with the phone line to dial up and connect, so I will try this out.  If I can do that, I plan to give a daily account while I am there and only give an epilogue when I get back.  If I can't I will probably just wait and make a big TR when I get back to Austin.  We'll see.  I think there's a computer in the office that I will be able to use too and there are always the cafes, so we'll see how things go.  I am bringing a lot of DVDs with me, it's a vacation after all and I am not the strip club or easy-woman-from-a-disco-for-the-night kinda guy, so I suspect I will get to catch up on my movie watching too.

Another funny thing: I bought a pair of snow boots (!) on Sunday at Academy (a local sporting goods store).  What a strange thing that is to do in TEXAS.  It hasn't been below 72 in over a week, though today it got really cold, down to 60!   I still can't make the visual happen in my mind: snow boots while wearing nice slacks, a dress shirt and a tie??!?!  Somehow it just doesn't seem "right" to me, but the interpreters tell me that it is expected to wear snow boots there, so hey...when in Rome I guess....gonna bring the longjohns, that's for sure!

A note about the women I plan to meet while in Tver.  Unfortunately most of them are younger than I would like, varying in age from 22 - 26, with one or two exceptions being a couple of years older.  At age 39, I would prefer a woman who was/is in her late 20s or early 30s.  However, when I go back to how this Tver idea originated, one of the things I was told by men who had been there was that there are a good number of these type of "slightly older" women in Tver.  So one of the things that I will do while there that I have never done before is to employ this notion of going "hunting".  The concept is that you expand your search outside the agency boundaries by having an interpreter with you and you "hit the streets" looking for a woman you might like to meet.  If you find someone who strikes your fancy, you ask your interpreter to approach her and see if she would be interested in speaking with a foreign man.  Then take it from there.  To be open, the concept seems a bit rigid and artificial to me, but a friend of mine met his now wife that way.  So, it won't hurt to try and at least I will have done it...leave no rock unturned is the basic premise at work on this one.  So I am being positive about it and looking at it like a good opportunity.  We'll see...I did ask Nadya to match me with an interpreter who would not have a problem with this concept and who wouldn't be too shy to approach a woman she doesn't know.  Nadya didn't think this would be a problem.  One last note about the women of Tver in general.  Because Tver is so close to Moscow, I have noticed that a good number of the women listed in these agencies in Tver actually live and work IN Moscow.  The agency sells it to you as no big deal, they can come to Tver to meet with you or you can go to Moscow to meet them.  TverRomance had many women like this.  Hmmmmm says I...for me it IS a big deal.  I mean, I was not willing to make a special trip to Moscow, if I wanted to go there, I would just go there and not bother with Tver.  However, I am looking forward to the slower pace of a smaller city like Tver and would like to meet women who live in this city.  I have not encountered this phenomenon anywhere else in my FSU travels.  Perhaps it occurs elsewhere, but in my experience, if a woman moves to a larger city for work, she MOVES there and doesn't come back very often.  Anyway, just something worth noting.

My trip itself is quite simple: Delta from Austin to Atlanta, Delta from Atlanta to Moscow, LTP picks me up at Sheremeteyvo and drives me to Tver.  Shouldn't be too bad.  I have a three and a half hour layover in Atlanta on the way out so I have invited an old friend of mine and his wife to have lunch with me at the airport.  It's been a while since I have seen them, so that will be a nice touch to the trip.  Hopefully Delta won't screw up the baggage.

So...that's it for now.  If I don't talk to y'all before I get back, everyone here have a wonderful Thanksgiving!  I wish you and all of yours a wonderful holiday!

Best to all!

Jerry

[Bruce]

I suspect you'll be up to your ears in eligible women you are attracted to who fit your criteria in the LTP sphere, but I'll give you some places where a lot of really attractive girls and women work in Tver for when you are "hunting"  :

* Tea store
* Photo stores
Department Store Shops
Children's toy and clothing stores

Best of luck.  I look forward to your trip report.   

One other point, if you are looking for more educated women than above, try the pay for clinics and hospitals.  There are a tremendous amount of nurses and doctors who are female, well educated and available.  Another place would be to go to Tver State University and try to meet faculty and or older graduate students. 

By the way, I would recommend you hit the clubs at night if anything just for entertainment value.  They are a lot of fun and you may run into decent girls, especially on the weekends.  Places you may want to go to are the Zebra Club, City Club, Culture Club, Oasis (though it was still closed last time I was in Tver). 

[Rvrwind]

Have a good trip Jerry & yes the Oasis is still closed, LOL. 4 years & counting!! The Mirror Club is another good one or Club 80 which is 80's Disco type music & a mostly 30+ crowd.
I also hope you'll take time to stop by & say 'Hello' while you are in town.

[KenC]

Jerry,
Have a great trip and good luck.  Just a note regarding LTP girls in Moscow.  Some women from Tver seek out the better job opportunities in Moscow and they move in with a relative or rent a room while living there.  They do come home to Tver often to visit friends and family as the train is cheap and efficient.  I will be following your TR to see how much LTP has changed from I visited them in 1998!  Nadya and Marc were there then too!!  Best of luck to you. 
KenC

[groovlstk]

Good luck man, have a great trip!

If you plan on spending any time in Moscow and have some down time, my fiancee would be happy to introduce you to some of her single friends.

[IAmZon]

Me too ... best of luck!

I don't have a fiance in Moscow that can show you the ropes - that's way cool.  (I'd take him up on that!)

You seem very clear minded and a man on a mission.  I look forward to reading more.

Thanks for the report

[jinx13]

Hey Jerry,

  I'm sure you're very excited about this trip, is it your first time to the FSU in winter? At least it's not THAT cold yet.

 Natasha from Tver Romance was discouraging a letter campaign beforehand? I have to say she sounds alright to me, she could have lied and said oh yes, write many letters, more profit for her. I personally think she is right about letters, they are good for basic introductions, but real life is everything, letters don't mean much really, in my opinion and my experience anyway.

 The idea of approaching women on the street and having your interpreter ask if they want to speak with a foreign man sounds pretty strange to me to be honest. If you want to speak to a woman, just talk to her yourself. After so many trips, you must know some Russian, da? If not, than maybe you should listen to the Pimsleur discs on your flight.

 Jerry I wish you the best of luck, but some of the stuff you say makes me wonder if you have learned anything from previous trips. I'm not an agency basher, but I wonder why you rely so much on others and don't try and branch out on your own. Having a conversation with an interpreter present is not a normal way of speaking with a woman, you can't be yourself, and neither can she.

 Ok, sorry, I'm not going to lecture, just have fun and I hope you find what your looking for, she is out there. Have a happy Thanksgiving, I'll be watching the Cowboys kick ass on the Buccaneer's         David

[Jack]

...."In the end there were three women in TverRomance who I wanted to meet and I offered to pay for individual meetings with these women, but Natasha refused the offer".....


Yea, sounds like an agency owner who has her clients best interest in mind,......sure. And still someone "wonders" why you don't want to deal with her?

Here you have a man traveling half way across the world and is willing to come to these ladies town. He has interest in these three ladies, would like to meet them. This agency owner for whatever reason says nyet, you meet them under my conditions or you don't meet them at all. I wonder if these three ladies even knew this man would have liked to have met them.  To me this is a sign of an agency owner who is more concerned about the all mighty dollar than she is about her clients best interest, clients who she is suppose to be representing and helping to meet a good foreign man.

I can see why agency bashers have a leg to stand on with agency owners who have attitudes such as this.

[jinx13]

 Ahhh, I missed that part about offering to pay for the meetings, and being refused, yeah that's not cool of her, and bad business. Jerry was right not to use Tver Romance.

[Rvrwind]

Not one to say "I told you so" but....
Now I'll get bashed by my nemisis, no doubt

The agency sells it to you as no big deal, they can come to Tver to meet with you or you can go to Moscow to meet them.  TverRomance had many women like this.  Hmmmmm says I...for me it IS a big deal.  I mean, I was not willing to make a special trip to Moscow, if I wanted to go there, I would just go there and not bother with Tver.

You didn't notice this either I take it. My client that used them was told if he wanted to meet them he had to go to Moscow. Not a bad way to fleece a client out of a couple of hundred bucks for a car, driver & terp.
Jerry got lucky & figured out that little scam before he landed in Tver. Good eye Jerry!

[av8or1]

Hi David,

Wow, I expected some bashing from the usual suspects here, but must admit that I didn't think it would be you.  Surprising...I'll address your concerns...

Hey Jerry,

  I'm sure you're very excited about this trip, is it your first time to the FSU in winter? At least it's not THAT cold yet.

Nope, been there 4 times in the dead of winter, including the dreaded January/February time frame.

Natasha from Tver Romance was discouraging a letter campaign beforehand? I have to say she sounds alright to me, she could have lied and said oh yes, write many letters, more profit for her. I personally think she is right about letters, they are good for basic introductions, but real life is everything, letters don't mean much really, in my opinion and my experience anyway.

Uhhhh David...wake up and smell the coffee.  Know what you speak about before you open your pie hole.  Natasha has an all-for-one price for letter writing, not a pay-as-you-write arrangement.  So whether or not I write 1 or 100 letters makes no difference in the "profit for her" and therefore your assertion makes no sense.  Argument defeated.  My experience with letter writing is different, I believe it can tell you a lot about someone, though not whether or not you will have any physical chemistry with them.  So let's agree to disagree on this point and leave it at that.

The idea of approaching women on the street and having your interpreter ask if they want to speak with a foreign man sounds pretty strange to me to be honest. If you want to speak to a woman, just talk to her yourself. After so many trips, you must know some Russian, da? If not, than maybe you should listen to the Pimsleur discs on your flight.

I'll say it again "Uhhhh David...wake up and smell the coffee."  I know a fair amount of Russian, yes, but not enough to hold a serious conversation with a woman who knows little English.  When the interpreter approaches the lady, I will escort her of course and make it as natural of an introduction as I can, not hide in some corner and wait for the two of them to show up.  I believe you've taken this concept a little too negatively, and I don't know why.  Eh, whatever.

Jerry I wish you the best of luck, but some of the stuff you say makes me wonder if you have learned anything from previous trips. I'm not an agency basher, but I wonder why you rely so much on others and don't try and branch out on your own. Having a conversation with an interpreter present is not a normal way of speaking with a woman, you can't be yourself, and neither can she.

Who said I'm relying on others and not branching out on my own?  Doing the "hunting" thing is very much getting away from the agency thing and branching out.  The interpreter will be there only as a facilitator.  I will most likely approach some women myself, but for the third time "Uhhh David...wake up and smell the coffee."  How in the heck to you propose having a "normal way of speaking with a woman" when you don't speak the same language?  The little Russian I do know is enough to get by and to have a basic conversation but not enough to get to know someone.  As for someone being oneself, heck I know people who can't do that when they're one-on-one let alone having a third, fourth, whatever party around.  So what's your point?  I don't think that it's so artificial as you make it out to be.  Sure, that's a possibility, but that's kind of a reflection of the person(s) involved.  Many of my meetings have been open, warm and friendly where the interpreter was viewed more like a friend than anything else.  Again, don't know why you're taking such a negative opinion of this, but whatever.  Finally, I tried to find some women who live in Tver on the free websites so that I could contact them completely irrespective of any agency, totally on my own.  Unfortunately there weren't that many listed and the women who were I was not interested in.

Best to all,

Jerry

[av8or1]

Jerry,
Have a great trip and good luck.  Just a note regarding LTP girls in Moscow.  Some women from Tver seek out the better job opportunities in Moscow and they move in with a relative or rent a room while living there.  They do come home to Tver often to visit friends and family as the train is cheap and efficient.  I will be following your TR to see how much LTP has changed from I visited them in 1998!  Nadya and Marc were there then too!!  Best of luck to you. 
KenC

KenC,

Well thank you for the well wishes, I appreciate it.  As for the whole Moscow-Tver thing, my concern/problem is the time we would have to spend together in such a scenario, or lack thereof.  These women who live in Moscow can come to Tver on the weekends so that means two days a week you could visit with them, when they're not busy visiting family and friends, of course.  That just doesn't seem like enough to me, so I'll pass.  I appreciate their offer, it's kind of them, but I will stay with the women who live in Tver.

Hopefully I'll be able to give updates while I'm there, I'll sure try!

Best to all,

Jerry

[Jumper]

jerry -
Have a great trip !
the idea to meet some agency women,
but also to  branch out  a little and just meet women you find interesting is a very good idea IMHO.

and heck i would take groov up on his offer! ,
 as well as anyone else with regular contacts.
odds in life are that we meet our spouse by random chance,
random meeting , or thru work or friends?
never hurts to add some more people into the mix!

anyway best of luck!

[Rvrwind]

Finally, I tried to find some women who live in Tver on the free websites so that I could contact them completely irrespective of any agency, totally on my own.

You might wanna try mail.ru Last time I looked there was close to 800 women from Tver alone & if you branch out to some of the little cities nearby or just type in Tver Oblast it is well over 1000!!! You'll need to use your Russian skills however
JFYI
Enjoy

[jb]

Those of us who were skeptical of Tver Romance and their business practices took such a bashing from Natasha awhile back I just figured we'd let you find out for yourself.

Seems you have.

[jinx13]

Uhhhh David...wake up and smell the coffee.  Know what you speak about before you open your pie hole.  Natasha has an all-for-one price for letter writing, not a pay-as-you-write arrangement.  So whether or not I write 1 or 100 letters makes no difference in the "profit for her" and therefore your assertion makes no sense.  Argument defeated. 

 Wow Jerry,  you took my letter a little too negatively I think. First of all I don't drink coffee    and second you didn't explain the reason you decided not to use Tver Romance, or the letter writing thing. I wasn't arguing with you, so I don't think you defeated me 

  As far as the walking up to random girls and having your interpreter introduce you, sorry, but it sounded lame, you even had your doubts about it, so why jump all over me for questioning it? I'm glad you learned some Russian, but maybe you could learn more? I don't know much, but I can at least try and have a conversation, and use hand gestures. You would be surprised how easy it is to communicate if you just try.

 I wasn't criticizing you, I just think after so many trips you would be a little more independent. I'm glad you are branching out on your own, and trying new ways to meet women ON YOUR OWN TERMS.

 Jerry, I think you are a little defensive in my opinion, you seem to think I and many others here are "agency bashers", but nobody is trying to get down on you about using one, most of us have at one time or another. The difference is that most people cut the ties after one or two trips, and become more independent. In my opinion, and from what I have read from the veterans here, that is a good thing.  Have a good trip, and I truly wish you the best of luck.

[av8or1]

David,

Well I think the best thing to do here is to just shake hands and leave it alone.  I don't agree with 95% of your post and I think you make incorrect assumptions/conclusions while leaving out key facts in your comments, but whatever.  Just don't be surprised when someone takes you to task over your ill-formed commentary.  Specifically I did state why I didn't use Natasha's agency and I did defeat your argument, but again...whatever.

What I will say is stop telling me that I "should know better" or that I "would be more independent."  I take issue with those comments.  Just because I still use an agency after several trips doesn't mean I am not "independent" and it doesn't mean that I don't meet women on my own.  I do.  All it really means is that I have a different opinion about agencies than you (and others on RWD) do.  That's all.  Just because you hold that opinion doesn't make you right.  You shouldn't criticize others for not agreeing with you and taking a different approach, nor should you try to force your opinion on others.  Or at least stop doing it with me, I don't wanna hear it anymore.  You say you've read my posts.  I guess you missed the ones where I told of the times I went to see only one woman...you think that was with an agency?  Guess again, all but one of those 4 attempts were with women who I contacted directly without use of any agency whatsoever.  The point to that is that I've done the "completely independent" thing too.  So what?  Not all agencies are bad so why not use them?  For me they are simply a means to meet women, not a "crutch" that gets me through a language barrier or social ineptitude.  So look, I don't agree with you, period.  Let it be.

Thank you for your well wishes all the same, I hope to give y'all updates as the trip goes along!

Best to all,

Jerry

[av8or1]

jerry -
Have a great trip !
the idea to meet some agency women,
but also to  branch out  a little and just meet women you find interesting is a very good idea IMHO.

and heck i would take groov up on his offer! ,
 as well as anyone else with regular contacts.
odds in life are that we meet our spouse by random chance,
random meeting , or thru work or friends?
never hurts to add some more people into the mix!

anyway best of luck!

Thanks AJ!  I appreciate the wishes of luck!  We'll see what happens.  I can only hope that I end up as lucky as you are!

Best to all,

Jerry

[av8or1]

You might wanna try mail.ru Last time I looked there was close to 800 women from Tver alone & if you branch out to some of the little cities nearby or just type in Tver Oblast it is well over 1000!!! You'll need to use your Russian skills however
JFYI
Enjoy

Thanks Richard.  I haven't tried mail.ru, but I did look at bride.ru.  Couldn't find much in Tver and no real way to search there via city.  I'll try to give you a call when I am in town, maybe you and the wife can meet me for lunch or coffee sometime.  Thank you too for the well wishes!

Best to all,

Jerry

[jinx13]

 Jerry,

 Ok, I agree to shake hands and let it go. Nobody is forcing opinions on you, it's Russian Women DISCUSSION after all. Not everybody agrees here, but most of us just tell our personal experiences and try and offer advice, and maybe it's not always what you want to hear, and maybe the advice isn't always good, or for that matter said in a constructive manner (guilty) but I'm not against you, or want to argue with you, I want you to find what you're looking for.

 It takes a lot of guts to fly half way around the world to try and find your future, and I applaud you for being a man of action, not just words. It also takes a lot of balls to go in winter!  so, my hats off to you.

 Have a safe trip, I envy you, it's a great feeling heading over there, the possibilities are endless, and so are the challenges, but it will all be worth it in the end. Good Luck man.  - Dave



 

[av8or1]

Y'all,

I am about to leave for the airport.  Hope everyone is well!  I will post after I arrive in Tver.  Take care!

Best to all,

Jerry

[av8or1]

Gang,

Well I made it to Tver ok.  It's the second day (yesterday was a half day) and I've hit the ground running.  I wrote a detailed DAY 1 installment for this TR on my laptop but haven't figured out yet if there is such a thing in Tver as an Internet card.  I may bring it in and post from the office, we'll see.  Anyway, just wanted to check in between meetings (4 today) and see how everyone is doing.  Hope all is well and have a great Thanksgiving week!

Best to all,

Jerry

[ConnerVT]

Have your translator take you to the telephone company office.  There's one only a few blocks from the LTP office, in the university campus area.  The card can be used for Internet access as well as a LD calling card.

Bring your passport with you, you will need to show it to buy one.

[jb]

Just when you think it's OK to go back in the water again, something like this comes along.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4735006.stm

Sad tale for sure.

[tim 360]

Epidemic and sad for sure.  Highest #'s I've seen for Russia,  but all gumint's try to keep quiet.  The #'s are staggering to consider and it is the kids who pay the bill for somebodys little pleasure.