Best way to describe wealth / standard of living?

[IAmZon]

The last thing I presume one would want to say in the early stages of correspondence is  "I am a big, fat, spoiled, rich foreign man."  right?

And, you probably don't want to use the increased standard of living card very heavily either, right?

But what is rich to most of these women?  And how do you explain your life style without sounding arrogant and bragging?

[jb]

You don't...

If you go fishing with the "Green" lure the only thing you will catch is a ton of scammers.  It is better to down play the lifestyles of the rich and famous until you can figure out if she loves you for you, not what you have or the fatness of your wallet.

[jinx13]

 rivardco, 

  Are you actually planning a trip soon, is that why you ask so many questions? I have not read all your posts, but I summize you have not yet made a trip, am I right? Are you corresponding with anyone yet?

 I appreciate that you want to learn a few things before just jumping in, but you might also be want to get some 'real' experience, get your feet wet, all talk and no action makes rivardco a dull boy.

[groovlstk]

Like it or not, the majority of folks in the FSU will assume you are rich. You can even explain that you're travelling on a budget or you don't own a home or you drive a 89 Camry and it will still get you nowhere. Unless the person you're meeting has travelled and seen a lot of the world, their assumption is: all Americans are rich, so you must be rich. In my experience, unless you're a millionaire, explaining where you fit in on the financial scale will be very difficult and it's something that your girl will only understand with time and repeated conversations and examples.

And if you manage to find someone to get serious with, she'll have to deal with myriad problems she's not yet dreamed of because all her friends and colleagues will think she's got a rich boyfriend.

My fiancee is having a difficult time at work because her colleagues are brazenly poaching her clients. One SOB, whom I met twice, waited until her day off to steal one of her clients who had agreed to buy her $25k kitchen. When she angrily confronted him the next day, he simply shrugged and said, "but you have Mark, he's rich, you don't need the money as much as I do."

[jb]

"but you have Mark, he's rich, you don't need the money as much as I do."

That's TFF.  When my wife and I got married her boss promptly fired her and hired a new girl to replace her, his explanation for doing this was; "but your married to a rich man and don't need the job now".  The average Russian honestly believes the difference between a rich American and a poor one, is the poor one has to wash his own Mercedes.  Stereotypes work both ways.

[IAmZon]

You are right.  I am very new to all this.  I have never gone to the FSU.  Five weeks ago, I though FSU only could mean Florida State University.  But yes I am planning on not one, but many trips.

The earliest I can go on my first is May.  And I do believe planning and forthought makes all the difference.  My profession is marketing.  And this is very marketing intensive.  I ask a lot of questions because a lot of questions need to be asked.  I try to only ask questions that I have not found answers to, or explanations on, in these threads ... things that are relevent in my correspondence with RW, and I hope to others as well.

I will see if I can't find a solutions to becoming dull.  In a different year, I would challenge your thoughts on the cowboys and bucs.  But I am from St. Pete, and I only hope the game is worth watching.

[vwrw]

Rivardco,
If you want to explain RW anything (about your life, yourself and so on) and you want to be understood you need to use more simple words than you usually do. Of course, there are some RW or UW who have a deep knowledge of English in FSU and they will understand you but other else will need a time to interpret 30% of the words you use (in the best case). As you understand till a woman is not defined with her choice she usually has correspondences with some men. If each time your letters would take a lot of the time she has for correspondences she might refuse to correspond with you. And not due to you said her wrong something or you are uninteresting but due to she could get tired to work hard with each of your letters.
Remember, woman usually prefer the men she enjoy to correspond with.     

[ConnerVT]

Well, how wealthy are you really?

Most Americans don't truly understand wealth.  You own a house and a car.  Are you wealthy?  If you have 30% equity on a $200,00 home, that's $60,000.  Most people are about break-even on their automobile (trade in value - payoff on car loan).

Now subtract your consumer credit.  Add a few thousand dollars to garage sale your capital goods.

Retirement money?  Yes, part of your net worth, but not readily spendable until you hit retirement age.

Most people in the FSU have little understanding of how credit oriented the USA is.  Even my wife, who was a major accountant for the government, has taken some time to get her hands around the concepts.  Most of the women you will meet probably won't fare any better truly understanding it.

When you say you have a house and a car, they will figure you own it outright.  They won't immediately think that 40% of your take home salary goes for paying for it.  Neither will they know that well over a third of the $5K/month salary you make goes to taxes.

Instead of wealth, speak about lifestyle.  "I live in a house near the city, with wooded natural area nearby" and "I have a car for my daily use" is a language that's more universally understood.

[IAmZon]

Thank you very much vwrw!

Simple, clear language is VERY important, and is something I have NOT paid proper attention to.   I owe you one:)

[jinx13]

 Yep, my g/f just couldn't understand that I was not rich, I own a business and drive a Porsche Boxter so that made it even more difficult to explain. Yeah, I do ok, but the last year was tough on my business, and I have cut back many things.

 We talked about how Russian and Ukraine girls watched so many episodes of 'Beverly Hills 90210' and 'Melrose Place' and they truly believe that's how our lives are here. I guess you could say we are rich if you are comparing quality of life, but Americans carry much, much more debt.

 My g/f finally gets it, she has lived here one year, so she understands it's not so easy to get a high paying job, you don't become an instant millionaire just by moving here. The problem now is she must try and explain this to her parents and friends. Her friends ask to borrow money, she is rich now, of course! Her parents don't ask for anything, but have very high expectations, and don't understand why she isn't driving a mercedes, and living in a mansion yet.

[vwrw]

Guys,
Do not consider RW and UW to be stupider than they are. Most women very well know there are rich, poor and middle earning people in America. And most of the women who looking for husband abroad even know how much a man has to earn to belong to one or other of the levels.

[jinx13]

 ok vwrw,

  What level of salary to you consider to be 'rich'? Keep this in mind, the average American probably makes between $40 - 50 thousand a year (guessing, no stats to back it up), is that rich in your opinion?

[ConnerVT]

See, that's not actually correct.  Earnings have nothing to do with wealth.  Usually people who live more upscale tend to live on borrowed money.

Wealth is the money you have if your earnings go to zero.

Many people confuse lifestyle with wealth.  It has been said that every man typically earns and then loses his fortune three times in his lifetime.  Those with an expensive lifestyle can lose it quickly.

[Kuna]

Instead of wealth, speak about lifestyle.  "I live in a house near the city, with wooded natural area nearby" and "I have a car for my daily use" is a language that's more universally understood.

Excellent ideas!

Rivardco,

I bought the eBook from the Elena's Models website and there are a number of excellent ideas in there on this topic.  I would recommend everyone on this journey reads it.

She addressed the topic of wealth in there and one suggestion was similar to Conners...

"I am not a wealthy man but I earn enough to support a family"

I took that phrase and added something like Conner has mentioned by talking about my lifestyle (but downscaled significantly).

I would rather a girl choose me for my character than my income, and I think it'd be much better when "she" arrives if she's pleasantly surprised rather than disappointed with our lifestyle.

Just my thoughts...

Kuna

[jb]

You should also factor in *where* you live, i.e. relative cost of living.  A man earning $50K in San Francisco, California is dirt poor, while the same salary in the Arkansas Ozarks would make him a pillar of the community.  (sum total of debt not withstanding)

BTW, this is a concept that took my wife a long time to understand, she thought our present income in Corpus Christi would buy the same lifestyle in Houston.  'Twas hard for her to comprehend.

[Jet]

As groovlstk and vwrw and posted be clear and to the point but keep it simple. There is no need to speak dollars and cents immediately. Once engaged, it's time to disclose finances but IMO not too much before that. I explained to my wife that "I live comfortably, but must continue working to maintain that level" or something to that effect. When I asked her to marry me I disclosedmany more details of what "comfortably" means exactly.

Part of the problem is that by virtue of the fact that you can hop on a jet and fly halfway around the world, you *are* rich.
Despite vwrw's most recent post, my wife took a little time adjusting to income vs spending when she arrived, and I've heard similar stories from MANY other married guys. Some wives just don't quite comprehend the difference between $5, $50, $500, & $5,000 before their arrival. To tell her you work in facility maintenance and bring home $23,000/yr may very well seem to her like she's just hit the lottery if she comes from a smaller town, and she'll have no idea your a janitor just barely scraping by until she gets here - then she'll understand perfectly, but it may also be too late by that point 

[BC]

When I proposed, I told my wife that all I could guarantee is a roof over our heads, a plate of good spaghetti on the table and education for our kids.

I did everything possible to play things down while we dated.  When staying in nice hotels I let her know the bill was being footed by 'some' company I work with.  We also had long discussions about what 'rich' actually is..  The story that impressed her most is that of a bum on the street 'richer' than a fancy high-flyer trying to service a huge mortgage, leased BMW, accounts in overdraft and resorting to plastic for groceries or cup of coffee at Starbucks.

I told her that the simple fact she outright owned a brick and mortar apartment worth somewhere between 50 and 60K EUR, with no debts and a good amount of disposable income placed her well within the middle class outside RU. 

While I was in RU I saw quite a few folks who although worked long and hard were still able to smile and have fun around a loaded dinner table on a regular basis.. Now that's a real asset in my book.

[Jet]

jb also brings up an excellent point about location! For what you could buy two 4 bedroom homes for in Kansas city area, you could not even touch a postage stamp size empty lot where we live in S. FL

[jinx13]

JB is right, forgot about that aspect, I live near San Francisco, and I wouldn't say $50,000 is dirt poor, unless you were trying to buy a house in the city, but in California you definitely need to earn a higher wage to keep up with the VERY high cost of living here.

[jb]

Actually, our finances are so different and complex as to make it seem like we are from a different planet for the newcomer RW.  They have to live here for awhile to begin to understand things like *after tax income* - *after debt service* - *after we tuck something into the IRAs* - *after paying for food, clothes, putting gas in a couple of cars, and an occasional dinner out*, there may not be room in the budget for her dream vacation in Paris this year and Venice the year after.  Most of these girls/women think they have hit the lottery anyway, it's up to you to open their eyes to reality.

In terms of real wealth, my wife, with her paid for Moscow 2 bedroom flat, and the just outside the Moscow Ring Road dacha, is really worth more than I am, but we have a better lifestyle here than she could have there.  As I said, it's complex and very complicated.  It takes a lot of work to merge the two worlds in their minds.

[philb]

In terms of real wealth, my wife, with her paid for Moscow 2 bedroom flat, and the just outside the Moscow Ring Road dacha, is really worth more than I am, but we have a better lifestyle here than she could have there.  As I said, it's complex and very complicated.  It takes a lot of work to merge the two worlds in their minds.

Good point jb,  I think that this is the case with a good percentage of women from some of the larger cities in the FSU.

After I proposed my future wife asked me to go over my monthly budget with her.  She said she wanted to know what she was getting into so as not to have unreal expectations in regards to financial matters.  I went over everything with her  starting from my gross income and subtracting out every expense.  I think that I probably errored on the conservative side.

Anyway she saw exactly what I had left over each month.  Maybe some guys would not be comfortable with this but I was and think that it gave her a pretty clear idea of wher I stood financially

[vwrw]

Okay Jinx,
I would consider a man to belong “rich” level if his level of salary is not less 120 thousand a year.
JB, any woman can easy get knowledge about relative cost of living in a state of America if she visits with this question women’s forum. As you know there are a lot of RWs who live in America for a long time. Also the same women can explain her much more for example that $23 000 a year is too little in any state of America and explain her about *after tax income* - *after debt service*.
If I remember (am not sure) correctly a RW must have her man income’s document when she goes for interview in embassy.  Still your RW is in her country she already can guess what a level her future husband belongs.
So, I repeat again do not consider RW and UW to be stupider than they are. Many RWs and UWs are going to America have knowledge that far not all Americans are rich. 

[groovlstk]

Okay Jinx,
I would consider a man to belong “rich” level if his level of salary is not less 120 thousand a year.

VWRW, In Manhattan a self-made guy making 120k per year is far, far from being rich. If he doesn't own his own flat (which he won't own unless his parents buy it for him), his rent is about $3-5k per month, plus a myriad of other expenses.

[aikorob]

I took the route Phil did---I had worked up a spreadsheet showing the after tax averages of a normal week; a week with my usual overtime; and a week with overtime + Saturday--then I listed every recurring payment and subtracted them.
She was able to get a pretty good idea of my financial health (or lack therof) and she saw the effect working  more hours had on the bottom line.

I did not even attempt to try to explain the tax system now; I figured that part would keep.

[jb]

I would consider a man to belong “rich” level if his level of salary is not less 120 thousand a year.

By such a standard,,, I'm not rich.

JB, any woman can easy get knowledge about relative cost of living in a state of America if she visits with this question women’s forum.

How many do this?

If I remember (am not sure) correctly a RW must have her man income’s document when she goes for interview in embassy.

Yes... Among many other questions, like;  "What are the names of his children?", "How did you meet?",  "How much time have you spent together?",  "What is your fiancee's exact birth date?", "What is the name of the town you will live in?", "What is the address of the house you will live in?", "What does he do for a living?", "How many times has he been married before?", "Where did he go to school?". There are many questions that you must know the exact answer to, few of these many questions are known to you after only spending 5 days together.  If you miss one question the officer will begin to ask extra questions.  This is the point I've been trying to get you to understand.  You must prove a lasting and viable relationship to the Consular Officer to get a K-1 Visa.  It's not as easy as you think.  It's easy to get things wrong and mess up a visa interview.