I wonder...

[Elen]

Looks like you are the first one who has managed to pique the interest of all 3 of our Russian sirens simultaneously.

 

Because he is king boy and doesn't tell us we're spreading nonsences at this board like others dudes used to mumble:X

[Admin]

I think you would be surprised to learn the percentage of girls that, when it finally comes down to leaving Ukraine, choose to remain near their family and friends

Look Dan If I have unnecessary 100$ I'd bet with you THAT girl will leave Mariuple without one blink of eye:D [/quote]

Elen,

I'd probably agree with you, but if we could compare the rationale we each use to arrive at the conclusion, I suspect it would be far different.

Whereas you seem to be evaluating everything Doug passes on from Larisa and looking for any indicator that makes it sound like she is a gold-digger, I take it at face-value and give her the benefit of the doubt. One good example is your interpretation of her wish to go to Paris. Another is Arrow's comments about Western Union. I see perfectly plausible explanation for the exchange between Doug and Larisa that does NOT suggest scamming from either party.

Remember, I believe it is IMPERATIVE to a relationship that both parties give the other the benefit of the doubt. It is a good habit to begin at the outset, since this is a critical ingredient (IMHO) to any successful relationship. That is NOT to say that a person should be naive, but they can offer the benefit of the doubt while remaining aware of their surroundings.

Once again - FWIW.

- Dan

[Photo Guy]

I am about to leave for my sister's house. My parents will be
there for Easter Sunday. Happy Easter!!! I just read these last
four posts. They made me smile.
Ha. 'King Boy'?  
Elen, you are SO AWARE of the risks, that I wonder if you
can see the possible rewards. I hope you can see the positive
side of things too.  Good posts from Dan.
    Goodbye for now.  Spekoine noiche.  Doug

[Admin]

Because he is king boy and doesn't tell us we're spreading nonsences at this board like others dudes used to mumble:X

No, I don't think you are spreading nonsense. I think you are offering a perspective - and while it is a valid perspective, it is not the ONLY perspective.

Doug is, I am certain, learning a lot from what each of you has given him for advice. He then has the choice of accepting the sections of advice that he agrees with, and rejects those parts he disagrees with.

That is what this board is all about - the open exchange of information and advice and ideas - so that people have the chance to read and see what others have experienced, so they can select/reject what works best for them.

I appreciate your posts Elen. I may not always agree with them, but I still appreciate that you care enough to offer your opinions and ideas to the people reading this board. Thank You.

- Dan

[Elen]

You see I'm not such informed in your classification of Russian women and understand not clear what 's that difference among gold-diggers, scammers, visa-whores and hell-know-who-ever.

For me (arrogant moscovite;)) such gilrs were always called LIMITA (now,now,now don't kill me, Russians, who do know the meaning of that word:D) - a province girls who are may be have not at all such "black hearts" but they tired to live with that bored not rich life in their town and want something better in that life. And they are ready to do MANY for that.

  And to say some kind words to foriegn guy is not too big crime is not? (never mind how she really feels about him. She will understand that later - in America. But just NOW and just HERE she does love him:D)

On other hand American guy wants to hear all those kind words as well. So they match each others How things will turn later, who do know??:?

 

[Elen]

Elen, you are SO AWARE of the risks, that I wonder if you can see the possible rewards. I hope you can see the positive side of things too.

What an thankless creature all males are:X though

I TOLD YOU THAT

Well Photo guy I think you should calm down. Your girl is from province town, she will be happy to move to America so she will jump over her head for you will feel comfort, happy, lovely and so far with her. And according to her letters she can do it:D (such many compliments per one inch;))

that's your possitive side:D Her positive side is Paris ( I meant Manet;))


At this I finish with you Photo Guy and your Larisa. Колупайся с ней дальше сам. Флаг тебе в руки - и ...

[groovlstk]

Ask yourself - would she be same excited if you would be RUSSIAN/UKRAINIAN man?

That's a good question, and one that only she can answer.

I asked her The Question (i.e., 'why don't you date local dudes?') and was pleased that she didn't provide me with a stock answer. She told me that her last bf cheated on her, and when she broke off with him he taunted her and continues to taunt her to this day. She also said that people in her country marry very young, and at 31 it's very difficult for her to find a partner. She also had some barbs for married Ukrainian men--she claims most cheat on their wives.

Most of what she said can be taken at face value, but since I've only known her for a few weeks I can't vouch for her (but nor will I be skeptical and dismiss her comments). I can only vouch for her claim about Russian/Ukrainian people marrying young. A month or so ago, there was an article in the NY Times about expat couples in NYC and their proclivity for marrying young. The article was by no means flattering--it quoted statistics that said Russian expats had the highest rate of divorce in America.

Regardless, I still get a rush when I phone her each morning and hear how excited she is to hear my voice. Is she excited because she envisions Prada and BMWs in her future? Perhaps, but I'm not cynical enough to jump to that conclusion without knowing her better.

[Fiorella]

Elen,

I think you would be surprised to learn the percentage of girls that, when it finally comes down to leaving Ukraine, choose to remain near their family and friends. I don't have statistics, but I know it happens often enough that I've spoken to both girls and guys who have had that experience. I think this happens a great deal and would not be surprised to learn that 10% of all girls who have the opportunity to leave their home country, ultimately refuse to do so.

From another perspective (and this is directed to EVERYONE, not only Elen) - it seems to me that everyone should recognize that RISKS are a big part of this endeavor. There are risks of failure involved in ANY relationship. With a relationship that involves international travel, major cultural differences, language barriers and throw in the possibility of guys on sex tours and girls looking only for money, and you have increased the risks of failure dramatically.

So what?!?

Some people are more risk averse - and others are more risk-seeking. Some will tell you that they are not really living unless they are experiencing the excitement and euphoria that comes with seeking, and overcoming, risks of various sorts.

In fact, there are even programs and consultants that can teach you all about the identification, quantification, and even statistical significance of managing risks.

My point is - ANY relationship is risky. ANY relationship depends heavily on the instincts and intuition of one person relating to another.

What Doug, and others, are doing right now is trying to best determine the risks themselves and the consequences of those risks coming true. They are also evaluating options to mitigate those risks so that, eventually, they manage to overcome and conquer the risks.

If anyone wants a great book about the topic, there is a book written by Peter Bernstein entitled "Against the Gods: The Remarkable Story of Risk"

FWIW

- Dan

I agree with Dan here.

And I think, all men are the same - all want from their women food, sex, support and warm home-shoes to the door. But western men can be just more well-trained by western women. But they still dream about to have it all.

[Elen]

[Admin]

I agree with Dan here.

And I think, all men are the same - all want from their women food, sex, support and warm home-shoes to the door. But western men can be just more well-trained by western women. But they still dream about to have it all.

Fiora,

I confess to not understanding your post. I understand that you *said* you agreed with me, but then you go on to say some things that are obtuse.

Sure it is true that most (not ALL) men want wives that are supportive of them. Many like a wife that can cook well, and most appreciate the intimacy of a close and trusted partner. Some guys also like it that their wives value cleanliness and are willing to keep the house clean.

What, exactly, are you saying about the "western men" and "western women"?? Are you suggesting that Russian women are different from western women in some way? Are you suggesting that "western men" should not look to Russia to find those values they seek in women? Are you suggesting that those values are, in some way, inappropriate or anachronistic?

You see, I had to ask if you were "suggesting" these things, because your post was intentionally vague. It has been my experience, working in more than a dozen countries and living in more than a few, that when someone is talking in riddles (no matter their ethnic or cultural beckground), they have no sincere interest in communication. Their feigned attempts at communication are merely a facade for manipulation.

I hope this is not true where you are concerned. I hope you are here because you have a genuine interest in making a contribution and sharing your opinions and experiences.

So please, tell me more about the meanings behind your posts, so that I can understand what it is you are truly wanting to say.

- Dan

[Elen]

And I wonder is that a different between males' and females' brains or betweem western-vs-easter mentalities? (because for me all Fiorella's "suggestions" are very clear:D)

[Elen]

I swear off to say or ask something more about your girl Photo Guy but just can't help meself and keep my female's mouth close:D One (Ihope only one) more question for you. As you descussed like you told the film 'Moscow Doesn't Believe In Tears' what is that type of three women in that film do you think your Larisa  is more close to?

[Bruno]

- Dan
I agree with Dan here.

And I think, all men are the same - all want from their women food, sex, support and warm home-shoes to the door. But western men can be just more well-trained by western women. But they still dream about to have it all.

ALL men are the same

I like ready food and the kichten is my place... but i really like cook for someone, not only for myself...

Sex, of course, i wish it... but alone, it is difficult ... i hope that women wish sex because she like it and not only for ask something after or for have some control on the man :?.

Support and warm home... it is one of the goal of marriage, mutual support during a long ( i hope :?) common life... and a warm house is a house with the voice of children ... again, need sex for make it... sorry, i am not for the artificial methode .

At least,... shoes at the door... yes, it is true... with russian woman... when i was married with one, it was impossible go inside home with shoes... it is more one of your tradition, not one of us .

Dream ??? I have know it... why not a second time ? :cool:

 

 

[Elen]

Your first russian wife has well-behaved you  ( no offence:D) And now you do know what appreciate in marriage. Galina would be apgratefull to her predecessor:D

[Bruno]

Your first russian wife has well-behaved you  ( no offence:D) And now you do know what appreciate in marriage. Galina would be apgratefull to her predecessor:D

No problem, it is not a offence... yes, with my first wife, i have learn what is important in my life... familly !!! Finish to jump from one lady to the other, finish the long night in pub... and i have no regret...

I don't see my previous marriage like a misluck but like a starting point to something other... to a new life...

About Galina, she don't like very much my ex-wife... but she is happy that i am free for her now... she know all my story and if she wish control it, it is possible, i have give her the phone number of my ex-wife... ( yes, i know, i am a crazy man )...

In anycase, our past make us like we are today... sometime, i regret some evenement from the past but i don't wish change something in my life...

[Elen]

i have give her the phone number of my ex-wife... ( yes, i know, i am a crazy man )...

 Indeed:?

[Admin]

And I wonder is that a different between males' and females' brains or betweem western-vs-easter mentalities? (because for meallFiorella's "suggestions" are very clear:D)

Elen,

Just for me - as it must be that I am simply stupid - please share with me your understanding of Fiorella's "suggestions" - so that I might come to understand them.

Thank You.

- Dan

[Elen]

Ha!The only one thing I would not get at this forum yet is kind comments about my personality for explanation of not-my viewpoints:D 

Nope, thanks. I leave that to Fiorella. And just shall say "I  agree":P

[Admin]

Ha!The only onething I would not get atthis forum yet iskind comments about my personality for explanation ofnot-my viewpoints:D

Nope, thanks. I leave thatto Fiorella. And just shallsay "Iagree":P

OK - I await Fiorella's explanation.

Fiorella, where are you??

- Dan

[Fiorella]

I just want to say that there is no so diferences between russian men and western men. But! There are differences between women. Russian women spoil their men too much starting from mothers. In our society ANY man will always will be on up position then woman. Mothers use to teach theirs sons that he is perfect as he is and in all cases he can get any woman he want. And men really are really sure that he can not care too much about his appearance, his income, about anything - he will be highly desirable by ALL women just because he is a man. And many women confirm that faighting for ANY available man, often for a man who is already taken - not big deal to take a man from other woman.

And if you guys got to Russia for find wives then it means that you can't find in your own women what you need and expect to find it in russian women. So we see that there is difference between our women and your women.

[Elen]

agree:D

[Photo Guy]

Fiorella,
I am glad you explained your thoughts. Like Dan, I was not
sure what you meant. That's interesting: men are basically the same, but women are different. I'd say that the men here at RWD generally agree with that. Sure, there are variations, like Bruno likes to cook for his wife. There are many AM/WM that are like that. I sort of get the impression that Russian men take women for granted. They assume that they are always available and willing to do things for them. You have confirmed that idea for me. We AM are trained
by AW to feel like we are not quite worthy of being with them. This is more true of a beautiful AW. So that is very different from RW. It looks to me like western men can give RW what they want, more respect and a feeling of being valued, which they may not get from a RM. Of course, I am just guessing at all of this, because I have never been married to a RW. I am just now learning about them. Thanks to The Arrow, Fiorella, and the feisty one, Elen.   Doug

[Elen]

:? thanks very kind of you

[Photo Guy]

Doug is, I am certain, learning a lot from what each of you has given him for advice. He then has the choice of accepting the sections of advice that he agrees with, and rejects those parts he disagrees with.

I'll read anything and sometimes say anything.
Then I think about it off the board, I try to digest it. There are so many different opinions here, it requires a lot of thinking and reading
and dialogue, to discover the truth. My most troubling conclusion is
that many RW/UW are simply looking to escape their Province Town, and will try (and succeed) to fool us into thinking it is only about love. But, I guess it can be about both, right?  In the US, when a beautiful woman marries a rich doctor, it can be about money and also love. And there are also women who do not value money as much as they want love and 'security'.  Doug

[BC]

Until you meet this entire discourse is total bs..