The Previous Research Project - Cyberbrides in America (Planet-Love)

[Michelangelo]

I want to thank JB and Michael for your critical comments and critiques. I sincerely respect your opinions on my project. It is understandable why people would construe my intent as another feminist plot to represent members here negatively.

Ada, Ada, Ada...I am disappointed in your response.  

Please REREAD my posts in this strand.  I NEVER construed your intent as a feminist plot.

All of my posts concerned your research design.

I did so as one colleague to another.  I was advising you that you would multiply your data if you posted your research instrument online and allowed the experts on international marriages here to scaffold their knowledge.

Now you are moving in that direction; you've posted your research questions here.  Now everyone can see them and react to them, and not just the few who who participate via emails or PMs to you.  You'll find you get a lot more responses now and much richer data.

Ok, back to your charge that I am anti-feminist.  You surly don't see that in my discussons of your design.  I'd have made the same comments to any researcher, regardless of gender or even discipline of study.  For your information, I have chaired 25 dissertations at 3 universities over the past 20 years.  Twenty of my students were female.  Several of the studies dealt with feminist issues.

I'm well qualified to critique ethnographic and qualitative design research.  I was on many programs with Shirley Brice Heath in the 80s, who was a pioneer in such research.  Of my 50 research publications, almost all have employed a qualitative design.

I hope you don't jump to generalizations such as the one you made in the quote in red above with this data.

One final point--I understand your point on the need to privacy.  But you see, all of the posters here are already anonymous.  I am not REALLY Michelangelo.   LOL

Let's lighten up and work together to improve your research design so you can have an improved, and publishable study.

[Erwin]

Shadow, regarding your questions about my background, I don't mind discussing it here if it helps you understand me better. I came to this country mainly for study, i.e., to pursue an advanced degree. As an immigrant woman, I have affinity for immigrant women's experiences and perspectives. That sparkles my interest in international dating and marriage to a certain extent. I have difficulty with your third question. What attitude are you referring to? In what aspect? I need some clarification in order to answer the third question.

Ada

Ada,

We are also interested in knowing whether or not you have a family here?

Are you married?  If so, are you married to an American man?

How do you connect with American men?

Do you have children?

Tell us about your immigrant women's experiences and perspectives on raising children in America?

How do you think children are affected when their mother work and pursue a career?

Thanks,

E

[Michelangelo]

Maybe you are right Michael... but take a look at http://condor.depaul.edu/%7Esoc/cv/ChengCV2006.pdf

The .pdf is the CV of Ada... you can take a look at her numerous award/Grants/honors, and about her peer reviewed book or journal articles... and you can add a lot of conference... 

Thanks, Bruno.  I did review her CV just now. I did so reluctantly; I didn't want to evaluate credentials here.  But I will do so since you have made comments about her CV.

In the United States, for Research I institutions, it's generally considered that the researcher should have three to five peer-reviewed publications per year. Consequently, we expect a new assistant professor to have 18-30 publications during the first six years of service.  Unfortunately, papers presented at conferences, university service and even teaching are non issues with it comes to granting tenure. In the academic world, it's PUBLISH OR PERISH.

Ada was promoted to Associate Professor with her CV of considerably less publications in peer-reviewed journals, and she is to be congraduated. I think she would agree the same promotion would not have come at The University of Texas, where she received her doctorate, or other Research I institutions such as the University of Georgia or The Ohio State University.

She needs more research publications in her CV, and that's why I'm encouraging her to consider modifications to her design.  I'll bet that many of the articles she wrote that were rejected by her peers and were later published in lesser journals had design defects.

For those readers here who want to apply common sense here, it simply ain't so in Higher Education.   It's not about how nice you are, about how good a teacher you are.  We operate by our own academic rules, and it's all about quality and numbers.

[Globetrotter]

Dan, you have my utmost respect.  I appreciate what you do here and the protection you want to provide to those who go this route.  Personally, I don't care who touts 25 dissertations, Shirly Brice or 50 research publications.

Education says you are "book smart"...environment makes you "street smart"
and given the choice, I would rather be street smart.  And, you're right, Ada has done a good job of defending herself.  Give her the rope she needs...
why not?  She probably already has enough personal emails to do what she wants to do anyhow, so why not grant her the public or private access as she sees fit to have.  Maybe we'll all benefit at the end of the day.

Thanks, Regards

[Admin]

Dan, you have my utmost respect.  I appreciate what you do here and the protection you want to provide to those who go this route.  Personally, I don't care who touts 25 dissertations, Shirly Brice or 50 research publications.

Education says you are "book smart"...environment makes you "street smart"
and given the choice, I would rather be street smart.  And, you're right, Ada has done a good job of defending herself.  Give her the rope she needs...
why not?  She probably already has enough personal emails to do what she wants to do anyhow, so why not grant her the public or private access as she sees fit to have.  Maybe we'll all benefit at the end of the day.

Thanks, Regards

Globe,

I haven't restricted ANYTHING for Ada - not a thing - and I don't plan to.

My comments and questions are, as I've said before, merely to do what I am able to insure the guys here are not being led down some primrose path. Ultimately, they will have to decide for themselves whether to participate or not. Some have already made that choice - great. I presume the research is not completed and Ada seeks more input - at least, that is my understanding.

I just want this whole campaign to see the light of day - and, admittedly, I want these reservations and concerns to be a part of the PUBLIC record. Just in case.

By saying I want it in 'the light of day' does not mean I fail to recognize the possibility some private messaging is needed - but to this point, it seems nearly ALL has been conducted privately even though the public forum has been made available - replete with all the controls imaginable.

Somehow, this just makes the hackles on the back of my neck stand up. Maybe I am being overly-concerned based on past experience - and maybe not.

- Dan

[jb]

Somehow, this just makes the hackles on the back of my neck stand up. Maybe I am being overly-concerned based on past experience - and maybe not.

Prolly not, Dan, I had the same feelings.  We have to ask: "Does the bell ring true?"  In this case, I think not.

[Globetrotter]

Dan, again, with great respect for what you do, let the shit fall where it may.

Pulleeeese stop the pissing contest between the 2 PHd's...who is right, who has more credentials, who published more shit, who follows more rules that academia dictates.  Do what our good friend Bruno asks and just think outside the box....that's all!!!  

[Michelangelo]

Globe, I have no problem with her credentials.  I'm just surprised she would not listen to constructive feedback on her design. 

And as a sub-issue, it is troublesome she played the "gender" card when I asked her to think about opening up her design.  Why?

Can you explain that?

And by the way, if you want to get published in quality journals, your "street smart" means nothing.  Ada knows this.

[Globetrotter]

Micheo,

Unless you were doing a competing study, why would you care about her gender, feminism, credentials, or letters before or after her name?  (By the way, she is either tunured or about to be.)

I think you are here because you chased, and married...probably a lovely FSU woman.  Am I right?  That is what those here want to know...how you did it, why you did it, what you see as your successes or failures, what you could have done better, how happy she is, etc.  That is your biggest contribution to this group, not how smart you are, or the letters after your name.  I think there are cops, firefighters, plumbers, truck drivers, as well as CEOs and business owners involved in this quest.  We want to hear all of their stories, and yours as well.  I mean you no disrespect, and only suggest a sharing of stories and mutual support.

By the way, "street smarts" has nothing to do with "getting published".  It has more to do with sizing up someone in seconds, making a survival plan in miliseconds, whether you face a knife, gun, or multiple persons, and doing what's necessary to get home alive.

Just end the pissing contest and let the chips fall where they may, OK?  Bruno had the gig spotted first for what it was and is, so please re-read his posts on the subject.

[Michelangelo]

Micheo,

Unless you were doing a competing study, why would you care about her gender, feminism, credentials, or letters before or after her name?  (By the way, she is either tunured or about to be.)

I think you are here because you chased, and married...probably a lovely FSU woman.  Am I right?  That is what those here want to know...how you did it, why you did it, what you see as your successes or failures, what you could have done better, how happy she is, etc.  That is your biggest contribution to this group, not how smart you are, or the letters after your name.  I think there are cops, firefighters, plumbers, truck drivers, as well as CEOs and business owners involved in this quest.  We want to hear all of their stories, and yours as well.  I mean you no disrespect, and only suggest a sharing of stories and mutual support.

By the way, "street smarts" has nothing to do with "getting published".  It has more to do with sizing up someone in seconds, making a survival plan in miliseconds, whether you face a knife, gun, or multiple persons, and doing what's necessary to get home alive.

Just end the pissing contest and let the chips fall where they may, OK?  Bruno had the gig spotted first for what it was and is, so please re-read his posts on the subject.

Globe, did you read what i wrote Ada?  I gave her good suggestions on how her study could be better.  In essense, I told her if she opened up the design and made it public instead of private, her data would be richer. That's all I said. And I did it for us--the guys at RWD.  It's in our interest that the full story be told.  I only shared my credentials so she would know that the advice was coming from a collegue.

I gave her this advice so we could all see the data revealed and add to it.  PMs reduce the richness of the data.

Quite frankly, there is no "pissing" match.  If she does not want to accept my advice to open up the study, that's fine. It's her decision.

[Michelangelo]

BTW~ she has now posted her survey, so we can all see it and participate~ not just those who were talking privately with her.  So I think some good has come out of this dialogue.

[catzenmouse]

Well Mikie, You just got you too much book lernin' fer me. I guess I'll not be able to be speakin' wit you no more. All them big city werds makes my head hurt. I be a headin' back down to the holler' and my trailer now. Gots to keep them hounds fed afore they be gettin' restless and get inta the hen house ya know. 

[Globetrotter]

Mike, let it go man, just roll with it!

[Shadow]

Ada,

Dan already clarified my third question a bit. What I am curious is to know how you see the difference in culture between the US and Taiwan, and how this difference shows in relationships.
As a student you were integrating in a different way, ore because you wanted to and less because you 'had' to.
But I am sure that in your surroundings you see difference in attitude of women and men between Taiwan and the USA, especially when it coes to relationships. I would like to know how you see these differences, and what they do to your opinion regarding dating and relationships.
While I understand it is outside the RW topic, a look in the mirror could provide you with interesting data for your study.

[Michelangelo]

Mike, let it go man, just roll with it!

I did "let it go.'  I made a design suggestion and that was it.  Did you not read my last post?

Nuff said.

[Michelangelo]

Well Mikie, You just got you too much book lernin' fer me. I guess I'll not be able to be speakin' wit you no more. All them big city werds makes my head hurt. I be a headin' back down to the holler' and my trailer now. Gots to keep them hounds fed afore they be gettin' restless and get inta the hen house ya know. 

Shucks, Kenny, I'm a coon hunting, beer drinking guy just like you.  But my trailer's got wheels :-)  I'll bring it up and we can have a beer together under the awning  :-)

[smsmsmsm]

Wow! I went to bed early last night and did not realize that a fight just broke out here. Is this normal here?

Globetrotter, need to set the record straight. I am 5' not 3'6". You just reduced my size to half. Hehe!

OK. Let me get back to business. Dan, I don't feel bad about the questions and concerns that have been raised about my research at all. You have your job to do as an administrator and I think the questions are totally legitimate and understandable. People have legitimate reasons not to trust any researchers given past experiences. I hope I did not sound too defensive in my last few messages. I am really open to questions and suggestions. I will continue to answer any questions that people might have. In fact, I think this exchange of emails concerning my motive and direction of my research is rich ethnographic data in itself. So, I welcome any questions. Feel free to continue to do so. This will make the project more collaborative as a matter of fact.

Michael, Michael, Michael, what shall I say to you? Simply, THANK YOU. I really appreciate that you pointed out the flaws of my design and your encouragement. I take your comments to heart. To be frank, I did not perceive you as anti-feminist at all. I knew you were simply giving me feedback on my research project, which is totally reasonable. I do not think I was playing the gender card even though I was quite taken back by the feminist plot comment by jb. Now that I posted my questions on the board, I hope people will be willing to share their thoughts and experiences with me, either publicly or privately. I also hope you will give me some feedback on my questions. Since I am studying the "other," I might be or must be missing something important as an outsider. I can definitely use your wisdom and experiences.

Yes, academic world is a world of its own. Your accomplishments are astounding. By the way, are you not worried that I might be able to guess who you are? Did you not leave quite a few hints? Or am I imagining here? I got early promotion last year and am going through tenure process right now. DePaul is a teaching institution. You are right. I would not have gotten tenure in a research I university. The good thing is that DePaul does value teaching as well as research. I do have weekness in publishing in journals. I have to admit that I am more of a book person as opposed to a journal article writer. I think it is partially tied to the latitude and control I can have in writing a book. There are too many rules about writing a journal article that I find constraining. Well, maybe you can give me a few pointers to overcome my anxiety about writing journal articles.

Yes, let's lighten up. And I am carrying on with my project. How can I not? I am truly enjoying what I have been learning for the past few weeks.

Ada   

[Michelangelo]

Thanks, Ada. 

I'm glad DePaul does value teaching and does give it weight in the P&T equation.  Somewhere there is a balance between the two extremes; I shudder at professors who are not current and teach from old outlines.  Seems to me that if you are teaching you should be reading the journals and contributing to them, as well as keeping current by attending research conferences.  I'm sure that your doctorate, which is just 6 years old, is already outdated. That's why I think professors should stay current.

Sadly, most universities do not value the contributions we make to the field via textbook writing.  They are not peer reviewed, and are considered commercial ventures by upper level administration.

Hints?  Yes, I have to be careful :-)  I would say more about Asian connections, but then I would be giving too many hints :-)  LOL

I'll take another look at your instrument now that you have posted it on this board.  I think it was the right move, even though it will create more challenges for you.  But you'll get more data, and that's a plus.

[smsmsmsm]

Hi all,

Dan, Shadow and Erwin asked me some questions concerning my background and its relation to my research, so I will answer them here in a separate message.

Erwin, my immediate family is in Taiwan. My mother, brother and sister-in-law live in Taipei. I don't have any immediate family members here in the States except a couple of uncles and aunts with whom I have never maintained contact. I am not married. How do I connect with American men? It is interesting that you asked that question. I connect with American men very well. In fact, I have never dated a Taiwanese/Chinese guy or Asians for that matter. I have only dated American men, mostly white. My experiences with American men have been both good and bad, just like any relationships. Even though I have been here for more than 15 years and have been fairly Americanized, cultural difference sometimes still comes into play in my relationships. I guess my crosscultural dating experiences allow me to have some insights concerning people's experiences here.

No, I don't have any children although I have thought about adopting children. There are just too many children who need to be adopted, especially Third World children and minority children here. I wish I had the financial resources like Angelina Jolie. Raising children is a huge commitment, and I am not sure if I have the financial resources and emotional maturity (Ha! this is a big one) to do that yet. I think the challenges I will face in raising children would be how to help my children navigate different cultural worlds and racial politics here in the United States.

How would children be affected when their mothers work and pursue careers? I think the question assumes that women are best at taking care of children and children are not affected when their fathers are absent from their lives. Why can't we ask how children are affected when both their fathers and mothers work and pursue careers? I think raising children is one of the most important jobs in the world and both fathers and mothers should be equally involved in the process, physically, emotionally, and intellectually. While this country emphasizes the importance of children, the government only gives lip-service to the welfare of children. The United States has one of the highest infant mortality rate in the world, far higher than many of the Third World countries. We have children-unfriendly workplaces and government policies. I wonder why the US government cannot provide public-subsidized and affordable child care for all families and implement paternity as well as maternity leave for both parents like some European nations.      

As for the question of my personal background and its conncection to my biases, I am fully aware of them. Let me put it this way. I grew up in a patriarchal cuture where women were very oppressed. I used past tense not because gender equality has been achieved but because progress has been made. For example, in my mother's generation, marriage was arranged. My parents never met each other befor they got married. Of course, arranged marriage does not exist anymore, but marriage is still not somthing between two individuals. It is about two families, about their comparable status in society. In Chinese culture, collectivism is more important than individualism. I guess that makes me particularly sensitive to issues in relation to inequality, be it gender, race, class, age, etc.

I used to view men as the oppressor and men as the victim when I was very young. I grew out of that through much self learning and soul searching. I am fully aware of my bias and tendency of viewing women simply as victims. That is something I have kept in mind when I came to this project. By viewing women simply as victims, I reduce women to object status without agency and power, which is very problematic. As I have learned for the past twenty years, life is not that clear cut and things are not that black and white. I no longer have the dichotomous view in terms of gender relationship. Power dynamics is far more fluid and dichotomous.

Being an immigrant myself. I think I do have certain advantage in understanding immigrant women's experiences, for example, their difficulties in adjusting to a new culture and life and their vulnerabilities because of their immigrant status. However, as I mentioned earlier, I no longer see women, or immigrant women for that matter, smiply as powerless and hopeless. In fact, it takes a lot of strength and determination to make it in a new country. That is why I respect women who are involved in international dating and marriage. It would not surprise me when participants told me that their wives and girlfriends were very strong. It is because they truly are strong to be able to leave behind everything and move to a new country in the name of love.

I hope I answered questions to your satisfaction. If not, please do let me know.

Ada  

    

[Photo Guy]

Ada, thank you for your warm thoughtful response. Last night I read your article:
When the Personal Meets the Global at Home: Filipina Domestics and Their Female Employers in Taiwan
Thanks to Bruno for the link.

Have we been fighting here?! LOL. No, that's just normal for RWD. Don't take the emotions too seriously.

I was trying to detect any possible biases that you may have, while reading your article. Just a few thoughts.
I think the Filipina domestic who called herself a 'manager' was being accurate, and not just using a 'metaphor'.

Academia is largely to blame for the 'low status' of all service careers. Feminism thrives in academia and promotes the politics of control and power. For example, the idea that a service employee is a 'slave' is an extremely damaging idea, which only kills the self-esteem of service workers.  Missing from you article was the connection between Feminism and the view that domestics occupy a 'low position'. I think you dance around that truth, but I think you are a person who is striving to be fair and balanced.  I encourage your efforts regarding your new project. Please keep in mind that it is not all about power and control. It does have a lot to do with the value of the traditional family structure and about what is best for the children, the future of husband/wife relations. ..In many ways the oppressor may not be the husband, but governments and economies that force both parents to work, just to make ends meet.

[Bruno]

I wonder why the US government cannot provide public-subsidized and affordable child care for all families and implement paternity as well as maternity leave for both parents like some European nations.       

Because the US government have not the needed money...

For example, a boss who allow you a income of 5000$ month in Belgium...

First, remove 30% of patronal charge... stay 3500$, this is called the bruto income...

From this, you remove 14% for social security, 35% state tax and the city taxe ( in my case 9% )... stay 1470$, it is the net income, what you receive in hand...

And it is not finish... on all you buy, you have 21% of VAT...

American have very low tax level when compare with Europa... i am not sure that every American is ready to give 50% of his income... European country are more socialist but the exemple of USSR have show that money need to come from somewhere... gouverment cannot create money... citizen by working make money...

What system is the best ? Both... Our system is very good for help people who are not lucky in life but in the same time, we feed leech who have no taste for work... trusting gouverment mean that corruption need to be non existant... but same in our western country, we have corrupt politic people who use money from citizen...

If you have a high education and a good job, you are better with the US system where you use your hard earned money for yourself... All my life, i have work and study... the tax that i have pay is used partly for give a monthly income to some people without work... no problem with invalid, old people who are retired, people who have loose job because of business closing... but what about these who have never work and who don't wish work, these who receive 900 euro netto month for see TV and drink beer... when me, i receive only 1300 euro month in hand  from my work and almost the same amount take by state...

American are not ready and will never accept a European system... they like too much their own freedom ( financial and other )... same in Europa, some public sector have become private... yes, in the first time, price have rise... but once concurency have appear, price have become lower that when it was state business...

A little  but it is my european point of view and comment on your writing...

[ConnerVT]

Another 'experienced' forum member checking in.

-- Dan may have all of the reservations and concerns as he wishes to have.  That is his right, as may we forget, RWD IS his sandbox.  Even though he wishes it to be a community by and for the members who participate, it is an entity built by his hard work, money and vision.  Although he embraces a "hands off" approach of moderation, he has not waived his right to do as he pleases.

-- As jb, Dan, and others here have stated, I also have seen people arrive (both in forums and life) doing research.  In almost every case, the end result ends up being something completely unfathomed by the subjects that have been examined.

I examine my family relationship everyday.  While it may share various similarities with another family or two, in most cases, I believe each person's situation is ultimately unique.

I respectfully decline any and all invitations by others to examine my personal life, other than the glimpses I'll offer to the public.

My $0.02

[Rvrwind]

I too received the invitation PM to participate & decided to decline.
The last one we were involved in for Russian telivision was twisted & slanted the way they wanted it, it didn't matter what we said, it was edited to their liking & that was that. I was not impressed & have not participated in any more such projects & won't

[jb]

I suspect many of the more experienced married men feel much the same as Conner and would not like his family placed under scrutiny.  I know I do not want that for my family.   Perhaps a helpful tool for Ada would be a board wide poll to find out how many are willing to do this.  Break the polling question down to reflect married vs unmarried, has g/f or engaged, etc.  Michael could prolly help with the construction of such a poll.  I'd say the still "just looking" guys would not be of much value to her study, and the guys who haven't yet made a trip would not even be in the ball park.  If a not big enough sample was found, Ada could go elsewhere to more furtile fields to find her data and not waste her time around here.

[dwfunk]

American are not ready and will never accept a European system... they like too much their own freedom ( financial and other )...

 
uhhhh, the majority of "Americans" are descendent's of Europeans that couldn't accept a European system...        remember??


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