I must have lost my mind

[Greg]

Bruno,

Thanks for the kind offer. I cannot give you what you ask for without giving out the name of the woman or the agency involved. There is a lot of correspondance and it would take a long time to read through it all. As an owner of an agency would you think it appropriate to give your agencies name out without them having a chance to finish their investigation of this woman? I want them to do a thorough job and keep the focus of their attentions on completing their investigation. Do you suggest I do otherwise?

[BC]

Greg,

Sounds like you are still holding on to a thread. If you and this woman can't fix it between yourselves don't expect an agency to work things out.. It just doesn't work that way.

Are you ready to let go? or are there other motives?

[Fiorella]

Greg,

Sounds like you are still holding on to a thread. If you and this woman can't fix it between yourselves don't expect an agency to work things out.. It just doesn't work that way.

Are you ready to let go? or are there other motives?

It seems there are other. What is that misterious "investigation" that agency does?

[Bruno]

Bruno,

Thanks for the kind offer. I cannot give you what you ask for without giving out the name of the woman or the agency involved. There is a lot of correspondance and it would take a long time to read through it all. As an owner of an agency would you think it appropriate to give your agencies name out without them having a chance to finish their investigation of this woman? I want them to do a thorough job and keep the focus of their attentions on completing their investigation. Do you suggest I do otherwise?

They are a local agency... why a investigation appear after the "crime" ... don't they check the woman before via some interview... and why so much time for a investigation... the woman life at the same place of agency... they can invit the woman to the office for some question...

I only hope that so investigation don't take ten year like some police investigation :?

 

[Greg]

Well this "investigation" is what this agency has refered to it as. Now I have my answer from them.

 

Greg
 Yana spoke to Tanya and she stated that the money was a Joke and she didn't expect you to send it.  Tanya also stated that she had no interested in further relationship with you.
 
Yana and I both feel that the relationship isn't fixable over the internet and there nothing that we can do at this point to help.  We both recommend that you start your search over again for another lady.
 
Let me know how I can help with your search for another lady.
 
Thanks
Kevin Hayes
 
 
I'm happy to say that this has all been just a joke on Tanya's part and I'm very relieved of this fact. You see it was all a "joke" that I paid a membership fee every month the Khersongirls.com  for the opportunity to write to many of the available single woman of Ukraine. It was all a "joke" when with the costly payment of the matchmaker service they cheerfully suggested I purchase so they could help people such as myself find my perfect mate. It was all a "joke" when I bought mnay of the gifts and services they provide on thier site including but not limited to flowers, candy, English to Russian dictionaries, teddy bears. phone cards, proper lessons in my native tongue (English) to my lady in waiting, K-1 visa help which certainly will be needed, and the list goes on. It was all a "joke" that I make a reservation on a flight happily booked through a travel agency that they recommend to me. It wa all a "joke" when I applied, paid for and recieved a visa from this countries Embassy here in my country. It was all a "joke" when I paid for the taxi arranged by Khersongirls to meet me at the Odessa airport and drive me to my destination. It was all a "joke" to purchase the apartment supplied by Khersongirls who recommend I will need to secure my safety in such a dangerous part of the world. It was all a "joke" to buy the ring buy the expensive jacket the gold watch the gold bracelete the perfume etc etc etc for this woman as she promised me her hand in marriage. Well I didn't get the puch line of this joke. The only "joke" was on me. What a farce this whole thing has been nothing but a big charade by Tanya and Khersongirls has done nothing but given her a place to hide behind and provide another opportunity have have another "joke" with someone else. Yup it was one hell of a joke allright, but i'm the only one not laughing.
 
Greg

[Greg]

What i do think is needed here is an unbiased agency to conduct an investigation of their own. So be it.

[TheArrow]

Well this "investigation" is what this agency has refered to it as. Now I have my answer from them.

 

Greg
 Yana spoke to Tanya and she stated that the money was a Joke and she didn't expect you to send it.  Tanya also stated that she had no interested in further relationship with you.
 
Yana and I both feel that the relationship isn't fixable over the internet and there nothing that we can do at this point to help.  We both recommend that you start your search over again for another lady.
 
Let me know how I can help with your search for another lady.
 
Thanks
Kevin Hayes
 
 
I'm happy to say that this has all been just a joke on Tanya's part and I'm very relieved of this fact. You see it was all a "joke" that I paid a membership fee every month the Khersongirls.com  for the opportunity to write to many of the available single woman of Ukraine. It was all a "joke" when with the costly payment of the matchmaker service they cheerfully suggested I purchase so they could help people such as myself find my perfect mate. It was all a "joke" when I bought mnay of the gifts and services they provide on thier site including but not limited to flowers, candy, English to Russian dictionaries, teddy bears. phone cards, proper lessons in my native tongue (English) to my lady in waiting, K-1 visa help which certainly will be needed, and the list goes on. It was all a "joke" that I make a reservation on a flight happily booked through a travel agency that they recommend to me. It wa all a "joke" when I applied, paid for and recieved a visa from this countries Embassy here in my country. It was all a "joke" when I paid for the taxi arranged by Khersongirls to meet me at the Odessa airport and drive me to my destination. It was all a "joke" to purchase the apartment supplied by Khersongirls who recommend I will need to secure my safety in such a dangerous part of the world. It was all a "joke" to buy the ring buy the expensive jacket the gold watch the gold bracelete the perfume etc etc etc for this woman as she promised me her hand in marriage. Well I didn't get the puch line of this joke. The only "joke" was on me. What a farce this whole thing has been nothing but a big charade by Tanya and Khersongirls has done nothing but given her a place to hide behind and provide another opportunity have have another "joke" with someone else. Yup it was one hell of a joke allright, but i'm the only one not laughing.
 
Greg

Greg, I am shocked. I am really shocked. I can be very sarcastic sometimes. But I never cheat people and never laugh at their feelings. Well I have made sure one more time that there are no HONEST Dating Agencies coz they let their members to play such a "jokes" with men. Thanks to God and to my parents - I've got a good education so I can communicate with people from abroad without any Agency.

Do not regret about that. They do not deserve your attention. They must check women's backgrounds and pay MORE attetion to who is gonna join their Agency. But in general, all agencies are interested in getting money from their members coz agencies are interested in themselves only.

And that woman who played such "a joke" will remember that when she will be cheated by someone.

Almost crying...... Natalya

[philb]

Greg, the letter states that Tanya said this was a joke.  You believe that the agency was in on this also?  Is this because the agency continues to have a business relationship with Tanya or are there other reasons? 

I have not had any business dealings with Khersongirls or Kevin.  But from what I have read he has a pretty good reputation.  I am sure that there would be many people interested in any additional light you could shed on the situation. 

[wxman]

Greg,

I'm sorry that you have been used like that.  Natalya is right. She has given very good and honest advice.

I know Kevin has responded a few times on this site, and I think he needs to address this issue.  

[Greg]

I can try to shed light on this as best as I can but there is an awful lot that I cannot. The thing that stands out to me has been Kevins "investigation" technique's. He takes Tanya's word as the truth with no proof to back it up and my claims are always doubted. This woman has lied to him and he has choosen to believe her lies. So much has happened and I have had many of his current clients and former clients support all along the way. They have told me since the beginning that I was wasting my time and that Kevin would NEVER  blacklist this woman. They were right. If there is a genuine desire for it i can post all the correspondance in its proper order and try to shed as much light on this as I can. It's a mountain of work. Some people have already seen it and I have yet to have anyone of them tell me i'm out of line or incorrect in my judgements. In fact the opposite is true. I have had tons of support, i have posted to this group to try to get some fresh insight from others who may not have done business with Kevin. I have tried to keep Kevins name and the name of his agency out of it until now. I no longer feel that is necessary to do as he has "rendered" his judgement. I know I was taken advantage of. I know Tanya has the goodies and some money i know that Khersongirls has also made a couple dollars from me too. Not going to break the bank. What bothers the heck out of me is Kevin was probably right and this was one big joke. I was on the receiving end of it. I just don't know who the prankster is.....................yet.

[wxman]

I do not understand why Kevin would support this woman. Surely it will only hurt his business. If I ran a legit business, I would not want anyone taking advantage of my clients as a joke. The word would quickly get out. A little snowball becomes an avalanche. Not a smart business move.

 

[TheArrow]

Guys, I have a small request. I am not kinda NATIONALIST but, please, for future communication here - do not call Ukrainian women "Russian". The Soviet Union is in the PAST. So Ukraine is Ukraine (this country wanted to be separated from Russia. This is the INDEPENDENT country) and Russia is Russia.

Since I have read Greg's post about "a joke" I do not want Russian women to be defamed by somebody here at forum. I respect ALL nationalities but what would Americans say if I called them British, for example.

I know, they can block me coz of this my post. If they do that - they will prove one more time that honest forums do not exist.

Natalya (I am not afraid of writing my name here).

[wxman]

Guys, I have a small request. I am not kinda NATIONALIST but, please, for future communication here - do not call Ukrainian women "Russian". The Soviet Union is in the PAST. So Ukraine is Ukraine (this country wanted to be separated from Russia. This is the INDEPENDENT country) and Russia is Russia.

Since I have read Greg's post about "a joke" I do not want Russian women to be defamed by somebody here at forum. I respect ALL nationalities but what would Americans say if I called them British, for example.

I know, they can block me coz of this my post. If they do that - they will prove one more time that honest forums do not exist.

Natalya (I am not afraid of writing my name here).

Your point is well taken. I take it when the Soviet Union was in existence, and Ukraine was part of it, they were still called Ukrainians. I would not think they would have been called Russians because Russia was a  Socialist Republic in the USSR, as was Ukraine, Georgia, etc. I know the west often labelled anyone from the Soviet Union as Russians, when in fact that was completely wrong.

I hope they do not block your posts, as I find all the information posted by members who live all around the world as very useful.   

[Admin]

Guys, I have a small request. I am not kinda NATIONALIST but, please, for future communication here - do not call Ukrainian women "Russian". The Soviet Union is inÂthe PAST. So Ukraine is Ukraine (this country wanted to be separated from Russia. This is the INDEPENDENT country) and Russia is Russia.

Since I have read Greg's post about "a joke" I do not want Russian women to be defamed by somebody here at forum. I respect ALL nationalities but what would Americans say if I called them British, for example.

I know, they can block me coz of this my post. If they do that - they will prove one more time that honest forums do not exist.

Natalya (I am not afraid of writing my name here).

Natalya,

I am not going to block you because of your post - no need to be concerned about that.

I do have a question for you though. In the case of my wife and many of my friends in Ukraine, they consider themselves more Russian than Ukrainian. If you ask them, they will say they are Russians living in Ukraine. Now that is not to say they lack pride in the home country - it is more a statement of allegiance based on ethnic background.

Yes, it is true that the Soviet Union is gone - but the legacy of Soviet rule decisions linger on. Such decisions as the massive movement of Russians into various provinces of the old Soviet Union - such as the coal-rich Donbas (in Ukraine), as just one example.

My point is - Ukrainian, Russian, Belorussian - even Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian - those distinctions begin to blur because of the not-so-distant past.

- Dan

[Kvinna]

 Yana spoke to Tanya and she stated that the money was a Joke and she didn't expect you to send it.  Tanya also stated that she had no interested in further relationship with you. 

 

well, by this latter I can see only Tanya was joking about money, but not about your public INSULTS and terrible DAMNATIONS of your friend deBill

she must have some very serious reasons to break your relationship, I doubt Tanya would want to lose her chance to get GC, if there aren't some circumstances

[Bruno]

Well this "investigation" is what this agency has refered to it as. Now I have my answer from them.

 

Greg
 Yana spoke to Tanya and she stated that the money was a Joke and she didn't expect you to send it.  Tanya also stated that she had no interested in further relationship with you.
 
Yana and I both feel that the relationship isn't fixable over the internet and there nothing that we can do at this point to help.  We both recommend that you start your search over again for another lady.
 
Let me know how I can help with your search for another lady.
 
Thanks
Kevin Hayes

And you call this a investigation ??? What about these public insult ??? What about these friend ??? Why she have no more interest in relation with you ( i remember you that all paperwork was almost ready for her coming to US )...

I don't find reply to several question in these report of investigation...

If a woman don't wish go further in relation, this don't make her a scammer... she have the right to change of meaning until the "yes" before the administration... all gift send are the risk of each starting relation...

But these ask about money is really what she make her a scam... she have no more interest in you and ask money... a joke ??? If you have send the money, maybe for joke, she have use it !!!

But again, from one side to other, i don't see any real evidence of something... when you publish a e-mail for evidence, the full e-mail is need... a example below from a PM of these forum :

Return-Path: <root@host134.ipowerweb.com>
Delivered-To: info@love-from-russia.be
Received: (qmail 3792 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2005 22:12:37 -0000
Received: from elpis.telenet-ops.be ([195.130.136.17])
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          for <info@love-from-russia.be>; 30 Mar 2005 22:12:37 -0000
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 for <info@love-from-russia.be>; Thu, 31 Mar 2005 00:12:37 +0200
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
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Date: 30 Mar 2005 22:12:55 -0000
Message-ID: <20050330221255.25814.qmail@host134.ipowerweb.com>
To: info@love-from-russia.be
Subject: New PM from Greg
From: webmaster@russianwomendiscussion.com
Reply-To: webmaster@russianwomendiscussion.com
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Greg has sent you a private message titled "".

http://russianwomendiscussion.com/pm.php?folder_id=100


This is a evidence... i wish the same from the russian letter, where she ask you money... if she have send it outside the office from Kevin, she have try to scam him without he know it... if she have send it from Kevin office, the agency become more suspicious...

I think that now, the real investigation can only begin... until now, i cannot judge one of other... first, the problem of "public insult" are maybe the base of all ... in the first post, it was writen : "Terrible things from you and your friend. Messages all are kept."... OK, where is these messages ??? If Kevin have make the right investigation, he have certainly see it... But because he offert his service to you for other woman, maybe these message was not so bad... of maybe he have not see it ...

Everybody is fixed on the result of these story... but we need to understand what have happend from the very beginning... actually, i cannot say that Greg of Kevin of Tanya is the scammer... the affaire is not clear... and nothing allow us to judge what have happend...

Natalya... i understand you that you are socked that people use the word "russian" for a ukrainian woman... but in these case, it is nothing to make with a nationality... it is a individual case... same if these woman was russian, it doesn't mean that all russia woman was bad... you have bad person in each place of the world...

And about nationality, it is something difficult in ex-USSR... since the move of population during the communist time... my ex-wife was with russian nationality but she was born in Crimea, Ukraine... my actual girlfriend have the Ukrainian nationality but she is born in Moldova... Myself, i am from Belgium but i have blood from Italia, Holland, France, and Belgium... to be realist, natinality is only a politic border... see the case of US of Australia... all the white people have for origin, the old europe... the origin of russian are the viking... and the origin of all humanity is Africa... we are all from the same family... and don't be afraid to be banned... Dan is the more open minded guy i know on these forum...

[Photo Guy]

Greg, I am shocked. I am really shocked. I can be very sarcastic sometimes. But I never cheat people and never laugh at their feelings.  SNIP
Almost crying...... Natalya

It was nice reading your post, sincere and direct heart-felt thoughts without sarcasm.
 I felt it. Vulnerable. Greg's experience - horrible. Doug  

[Elen]

Kvina well, by this latter I can see only Tanya was joking about money, but not about your public INSULTS and terrible DAMNATIONS of your friend deBill

 [/font]agree

Bruno If a woman don't wish go further in relation, this don't make her a scammer... she have the right to change of meaning until the "yes" before the administration... all gift send are the risk of each starting relation...

agree

Bruno  But these ask about money is really what she make her a scam... she have no more interest in you and ask money... a joke ??? If you have send the money, maybe for joke, she have use it !!!

Now I think it was not an ask for money It was a way to say "get off" So she asked "unreasonable" sum for get rid from Greg. We don't know the reasons of her wish to put an end to that relationship (may be Greg was guilty too) But her  readiness to accept his rather expencive gifts rises doubts as well.

 

[Fiorella]

Anyway it all still looks strange to me.

He takes Tanya's word as the truth with no proof to back it up and my claims are always doubted. This woman has lied to him and he has choosen to believe her lies.

Are you sure she lied him? Why he must not believe her and believe you? Why he must not take her words? What methods he needed to use - light to her eyes and needles under her nails??? Does he has police functions?

So much has happened and I have had many of his current clients and former clients support all along the way.

What way? More strage - are info of his clients so easy evailable to others?

They have told me since the beginning that I was wasting my time and that Kevin would NEVER  blacklist this woman.

And they are still his clients after such statement?

 

[TheArrow]

What a strange manner of saying "Good-bye"! I mean that woman - she asked a lot of money instead of saying "Sorry, Greg, we have nothing in common and there is no chemistry here".

Even if Greg did something wrong - she could wrote "Get lost" or "F***k off". But asking a big some of money - I am lost in my thoughts trying to realize this fact logically.

Many people posted their opinions here. But tell me you, all, what would you write if Greg told you that he SENT MONEY to that woman. YOU ALL would start to scream then - WHAT?!!! SHE SCAMMERED YOU!!!! and etc...

I understand Greg coz I have been cheated once, too. He didn't ask me for money but he offended my feelings.

Natalya.

[Greg]

Fiorella,

1.)Yes I am sure she has lied to him. When I received her letter saying she wanted new clothing or she would not come to America I gave it to the agency.They called her in to their office. I had explained to the agency that she told me when i had arrived in the Ukraine that we should continue our relationship without any help from the agency any more. Up to this point all our letters were sent back and forth through the agencies site and were tranlsated by the agency. She claimed that this agency was "bad" and run by "bad" people. When the agency called her in to confrony her on her request for clothing ( which is against the agency policy) she was asked about the "bad" claims. She denied that she ever said that. This is a lie. What would be the reason for her to say this to me? To get me to send her money? That was the result of her claims.

2.)yes his clients info was available to me. It's no secret.

3.)Most of the clients I refer too belong to other groups. some are no longer his clients yes.

[Greg]

Bruno,

No if she no longer wished to continue the relationship it is her decision. How odd it was done under such strange circumstances. I have never has contact with her in ay way since her requests and my turning them over to the agency. Is this the public insult? I think this is what she refers to. The insults? I have yet to know what they are. I haven't insulted her. This "friend" she refers to has nothing to do with any of this. I'm at a loss to explain why she refered to him. Evidence? sure I have lots of it. Common sense? I have that too. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what happened here. she rode the gravy train until the next stop was America. Then she found some lame excuse to hop off and run like hell.

[Elen]

What a strange manner of saying "Good-bye"!

издевательская манера (have not dictionary translate that word)

Besides we do know nothing yet about those "strange" insults and damnations, mentioned in the letter. May be they were the answer to saying just "Good bye"

So until we don't hear the opposite side it all would be look strange.

And as I guess we'll never hear the whole story then all conclusions have no value

 

 

 

[Elen]

When I received her letter saying she wanted new clothing or she would not come to America :shock:I gave it to the agency

:? And you did buy her a coat (or what it was there) for 500$, didn't you:? instead of run away

 

[TheArrow]

What a strange manner of saying "Good-bye"!

Совсем нет - дословный перевод - какая СТ� АННАЯ манера говорить "До свидания!"