I must have lost my mind

[BC]

I guess barring a visit might want to attempt getting an objective/impartial third party involved.  If the agency is giving you a line one can only wonder what line they may be giving her.

Don't want to stir up hope for the situation but just evaluating all possibilities as an 'outsider'.

by the way how did she handle the ATM card funds? Who was the courier you used to get the card to her?.. hopefully not the agency..

[Greg]

Why would you say something like that? The agency has advertised itself as an honest one and this is how I had met her. If they won't blacklist her them the agency is suspect don't you think?

[Greg]

I'm pretty amazed myself were you going to translate that letter for me?

[Elen]

Me?? I sent it to you in PM already

[Greg]

The ATM card was a paypal card and I can add or remove money very quickly for her. The agency has a policy that if the ladies ask for money they are blacklisted. At least that what they advertise they sure have been giving me a lot of excuses for this woman.

[jb]

Greg,

The only thing I can surmise from all this is; that you are the good hearted  fool here.  You've been had, (scammed), by someone who has no intention of ever moving to the USA.  She's got a very good life right there in Ukraine, paid for by guys just like you, and God only knows how many others.

My best advice to you is: contact the Embassy and cancel the visa process,,, then,,, Run~! Forest, Run~!

[Bruno]

About :

Your public INSULTS and terrible DAMNATIONS of your friend

It's a bit of a mystery. From what I understand she had recieved some "bad messages" on her phone.

Maybe you need investigate this ? If she have nobiel phone, she is able to see the nummer from who have send the message...

I find your reaction a little strange ... someone accuse yourself of "public insults" ... and you don't know or search to know the facts of these story...

Sorry to say this, but until now, we have no prove about something... you post some part of e-mail ... but maybe you have type it yourself... you hide the name of agency, the name of the woman... and we listen only one side of the story...

This remember me a other post about a "scammer from moscow"... after some search and contact with the lady, it is appear that the man was not so clean and that the woman was not real a scam...

Don't forget the rule of these forum for the scam section... you need real evidence... actually, i see only several page who are nuts, without something strong, only some wind... very good for a fiction book... but nothing more...

Sorry Greg, if you wish help, we need all information, all the story, some evidence... without this, it is loosing time...

And now, the 5000$ are 5000 Hrivna ( 950$ )... and i have problem with the "public insults"... specialy with the word "public" ... this don't go with you theorie of "bad messages on her phone" who is more private... all these story is enough strange from the both side...

 

[BC]

jb,

You likely have the situation 'pegged' as usual, but I really wonder how much the woman is involved.  Seems there has been a lot of reliance on the agency here that seems to have provoked some support to continue 'feeding' someone.  Whether that 'someone' is the woman or the agency is the big question in my mind.

Would be easy for the agency to say something about a client to the woman that makes her hang up (yeah maybe she is immature enough to listen), but might explain the 'Bill' factor whoever he is..

Would be easy for the agency to play 'middleman' in order to cash in and keep the woman in their catalog.

Who has the most to gain here? I assume Greg has run her real name through google etc and nothing turned up.  Why would a scammer 'ruin' her true name? (I would assume the k1 process would turn up a false name, but just guessing though).

There's just too many loose ends here to convince me one way or another.. but you are right something smells really bad.

[jb]

Bruno,

I'm pretty sure Greg knows the difference between 5,000.00 dollars and 5,000 grievna, let's not put the onnus on the scammee while we should concentrate on the scammer.

If this woman ever intended to immigrate, (which I doubt), she clearly wants to feather a nest for someone else before she leaves.... Me thinks there's a Ukrainian man in the background who may want to immigrate in a few years time as well.  This is not an uncommon theme.  

Let's face it, $5,000 within three months, on top of all the other funds already transfered, is an unreasonable request.  If something smells fishy, you can bet it ain't bowling shoes.

I'd not be so quick to rush to the defense of this woman.  All men should remember, a bad woman is 10 times more dangerous than a bad man.

Get used to it, it's a fact of life.

[jb]

BC,

I had already discounted the agency since the woman had cut them out of the loop right after the meeting...
But I suppose you may be on to something, there may well be a third party involved we don't know about.  BTW, this was my guess from the beginning, since this woman has a 20 y.o. daughter, she's no spring chicken, I'm betting on a Ukrainian husband in the background.

Somebody has a plan we aren't aware of.

[Greg]

The only facts that I ma aware of are the statements that the agency has given me. they have said that this woman has been getting bad messages on her phone. I do not know what was specifically sent to her.

[BC]

jb,

Wild how many angles could apply to this situation. Didn't even think of the possibility you brought up. Certianly plausible though.

Oh well.. It's really late here so I'm hitting the sack

This thread sure is a fast read.  Wondering if another three pages will be there by the time I wake up!

[Greg]

By the way Bruno i got all the evidence you need, do you work for the agency I gave all that money to? You sound like them.Would you like me to show these emails? I will ahppily forwar them to you.

[Bruno]

I don't rush to the defense of woman... but i am not able to judge with a part of story from only one side... where i see some strange things in his own post...

Greg wrote :

By the way Bruno i got all the evidence you need, do you work for the agency I gave all that money to? You sound like them.Would you like me to show these emails? I will ahppily forwar them to you.

I don't work for any agency... i work only to my personal site... and we don't accept money for our service... same personal gift are refused

I sound like someone who need to make a meaning on something where he know only some information... if you wish forward information, you can send it to me via PM of e-mail... you can find it in my profile here... for begin my investigation, i need : the name of agency, the header from 2 e-mail if she send directly e-mail to you without go via the agency ( like the e-mail in russian ), the full name and birthdatum of ladies, and one portrait photo... this is the begin, for check what i can find about her... if she have some history .... 

 

[jb]

And I wouldn't assess Bruno as part of the scheme.  

This looks like a clear cut scam, designed to seperate Greg from as much money as possible in the shortest period of time.  

Greg,

You stated that during your visit you behaved very much as the gentleman.  I believe that.  Without asking for all the lurid details, did the subject of sex rear it's head?  If this woman offered and gave sex, you have a different set of problems to deal with.  If she didn't, did she behave as though she was being faithful to someone else?  

Think about that one before you get back to me.

[Greg]

Her letter is posted in its original language. This is the language I recieved it in. I have not named this woman or the agency.......................YET. So try to bear this in mind ok? I think it's obvious whats going on here. All the is rhetorical blah blah seems to have left out one pretty important factor that no ones seems to want to achknowlege. I LOVED THIS WOMAN. Yup sure did. HOOK LINE AND SINKER. I was in this for the long haul and she knew that. If you have any dobt of this there is a man who has just joined thi group today and he will verify eveything I say is true. Read the post's ok he has made a short comment and he knows I do not lie about this. He traveled with me to this scity, he stood in line at customs with me , he met this woman and he has read ALL her letters. If I'm so hard to believe then ask another who has seen it with his own eyes.

[jb]

Greg,

Are you drinking?  This last post is pretty much incoherent. Besides, what has your buddy got to do with the mess you now find yourself in?

I'll grant you that you were in love, pretty women will do that to a man, but that's no excuse to take leave of your senses.   The world has not come to an end, you are still alive and breathing, and the sun will come up in the morning.  

Get a grip, my friend.

[Greg]

If you asking me if we had sex the answer is yes. It was not on the first second or third night. But let me tell you exactly how the subject was brought up to me, and i swear on my mothers eyes this is the truth. One night we were sitting in her flat and I has asked her to call me a taxi as it was getting late.  I had done this a few other nights previously but on this night her daughter who spoke fair English said to me "My mother will sleep with you tonight". Yup I about fell backwards when I heard that. I was speechless. We did go to my flat and she spent the night. I don't think any more detail is necessary?

[Greg]

I don't drink thanks. What you may be sensing is a little frustration on my part. I ma trying to make sense of somethig that makes no sense to me. I have asked the owner of this agency for help and advice and he was given me many excuses for her actions. Why am i so hard to believe? It's true I have not given a complete rumdown of the entire affair, yes. I am trying to give the most important pieces of the puzzle. There were many red flags that should have been a warning to me be love can be blind allright. I do find the agency owners point of view enlightening to me as it appears for some reason they choose to take the side of the woman who ended up with all the goodies in the relationship.

[jb]

OK......

I have a hard time believing all this, it doesn't look like real life to me.  

I know Russians pretty good, and this sounds contrived to me. As though someone has a plan you just happened to fit into.

I say again, Run~! Forest, Run~!

[Greg]

Maybe that explains this whole thing she's a Ukrainian.

[Bruno]

If you asking me if we had sex the answer is yes. It was not on the first second or third night. But let me tell you exactly how the subject was brought up to me, and i swear on my mothers eyes this is the truth. One night we were sitting in her flat and I has asked her to call me a taxi as it was getting late.  I had done this a few other nights previously but on this night her daughter who spoke fair English said to me "My mother will sleep with you tonight". Yup I about fell backwards when I heard that. I was speechless. We did go to my flat and she spent the night. I don't think any more detail is necessary?

My God  If your story is really true, you have fall in a familial trap :?... The daughter who explain that her mother will sleep with you !!! Normal woman can show to a man when she wish him, same without know the language ( enough experience from all my trip around all the world )... How was what we call the "body language" of your woman before the ask of her daughter... have you not see sign that she feel desire for you ?

 

[jb]

Maybe that explains this whole thing, she's a Ukrainian.

That's why I recommend men go to Russia.

[Bruno]

Maybe that explains this whole thing she's a Ukrainian.

Greg, this excuse about she is Ukrainian can only make elen happy :cool:

Woman from russia, ukraine, moldova, bielorussia, ... have just only some little difference... all these country have a long common past...

A scammer is a scammer, the nationality have almost nothing to make...

 

[Greg]

Yes I was attracted to her. Was she sending me signals? Sure she was, but under the circumstances our days/nights always ended up at her flat. I was going to be sticking my tongue down her thought or grabbing her crotch in fron of the kid.