Big City Women vs. Village Girls

[Bruce]

JB - unfortunately with the passing of your MIL truly new and exciting opportunities have now opened for you and your family.  If I were you I would seriously consider spending a good portion of my time in and around Moscow.   

One thing that has been completely lost from this discussion is FSU societal structure.  FSU people ideally have a nice cozy flat in their large or smaller cities depending upon where they hail from as well as a dacha or villiage house that they like to frequent in the summer where they usually have a "kitchen" garden (which may suprise you how large it may be).  The richer family will have a larger better equiped and furnished flat with the larger nicer dacha while the poorer will have the same only not the quality.  Those who were only living in the "villiage" were either collective farmers (who usually happened to live very well) or people who for whatever reason were in villiages.  These inidviduals did not have the educational or societal structural advantages most populations in the FSU had.  Many succombed to alcoholism.  Consequently, they were looked down upon by the relative haves, which were the majority of the people in the FSU.  Moscow, St. Petersubrg, Novosibirsk, Kiev and I suspect Minsk as well as a few other large cities were magnets for the "best and brightest" of the FSU.  The reason they received is because they achieved. 

I always recommend that a guy travels to a place he likes because he will be going back, more frequently then he thinks if he marries a girl from there.  Believe me, the flights get old with age, so the lesser and shorter the better.  This is a huge well deserved plug for the larger cities.  At the same time there are well educated beautiful excellent character girls in the smaller cities as well.  Just make sure the girl comes from normal societal structure, has a quality family and good values behind her because if you pick up a girl who truly comes from a shack in a village you really are rolling extra dice.  Many of these "village girls" flock to the large cities to escape their life and they sometimes do anything to stay there, so look carefully at a girls background.  Hot girls with bad intentions could cause a heck of a hurt if they latch into you.

[KenC]

Photo,
Class and sophistication may not be criteria used in your selection process, but others do think it is important.  To each his own.

I/O,
Can't tell you about the grading system of meat in AU, but here in America there is a wide range of quality grades in beef.  A lower grade of steak can be almost inedible whereas a high grade will be so tender it will melt in your mouth. So, your "faulty" analogy actually endorses the opposite of what you wanted.

Legal,
Of course there is a lot of mixing of cultures and backgrounds going on every where and this discussion is only about generalities.

Bruce,
A very well rounded and good post (as usual).

Dan,
I understand jb's penchant for sticking up for the ladies of Moscow as it has been suggested over and over again to avoid them and other women from the big cities because XY & Z.  There are few others here that can or will take up that side of this debate, so the tendency to be a bit over zealous is understandable in my mind.

But I think jb's mindset goes beyond geographical background of the women we sought or continue to seek.  It goes to the "need" for the RW to leave her home town or country which is the backbone concept for every agency.  The entire reason for agencies existence is that there are a large number of fsu women in need of a better life that can be supplied by foreign men that are in need of female companionship.  The needier the woman, the more easily she will be convinced to emigrate and the more likely she will only be using the foreign man as a mule.  In some cases, it is just the color of the man's passport that is important.  The opposite is also true.  The less needy the woman, the more discriminating her choices will be.  A RW that has a comfortable lifestyle and has no agenda of leaving the Motherland, will have to be won over with considerably more than a blue passport and consistant heat and water.
KenC

[Turboguy]

T/G,
Please don't start, you know what I think about your 38 years younger G/F,,, 'nuff said?

jb, if you feel any pressing need to discuss this I suggest you start a topic down in Anthing goes.   I don't feel a need but will be happy to accommodate you.  Otherwise I think it is far better to keep this topic on track.

One thing that has been completely lost from this discussion is FSU societal structure.  FSU people ideally have a nice cozy flat in their large or smaller cities depending upon where they hail from as well as a dacha or villiage house that they like to frequent in the summer where they usually have a "kitchen" garden (which may suprise you how large it may be).  The richer family will have a larger better equipped and furnished flat with the larger nicer dacha while the poorer will have the same only not the quality.  Those who were only living in the "villiage" were either collective farmers (who usually happened to live very well) or people who for whatever reason were in villiages.  These individuals did not have the educational or societal structural advantages most populations in the FSU had.  Many succumbed to alcoholism.  Consequently, they were looked down upon by the relative haves, which were the majority of the people in the FSU.  Moscow, St. Petersburg, Novosibirsk, Kiev and I suspect Minsk as well as a few other large cities were magnets for the "best and brightest" of the FSU.  The reason they received is because they achieved.  

I have a feeling in the FSU it is a lot like it is here.  They did not receive because they achieved so much as they were liked by the right, people,  or the kissed the right a$$.   Actually if my memory and history are correct during Stalin the best and brightest were executed.  

I always recommend that a guy travels to a place he likes because he will be going back, more frequently then he thinks if he marries a girl from there.  Believe me, the flights get old with age, so the lesser and shorter the better.  This is a huge well deserved plug for the larger cities.  At the same time there are well educated beautiful excellent character girls in the smaller cities as well.  Just make sure the girl comes from normal societal structure, has a quality family and good values behind her because if you pick up a girl who truly comes from a shack in a village you really are rolling extra dice.  Many of these "village girls" flock to the large cities to escape their life and they sometimes do anything to stay there, so look carefully at a girls background.  Hot girls with bad intentions could cause a heck of a hurt if they latch into you.

I think your last statement is an understatement.  I don't know that I agree with you in the part about making where she lives a priority in where you search.  It is hard enough to find the right gal without throwing scenery into the equation.  We are traveling far enough that a few hundred or thousand miles more is no big deal.  I think the quality of your return visit will be a lot more dependent on the family relationships of your mate than the restaurants and museams available for visiting.   I see people here who live in a shack and have wonderful family values.  I see people who live in a mansion who have neither happiness, family values or good personal qualities.  I think your points have some merit but I think the values of the people inside the home are more important than the value of the home.

Photo,
Class and sophistication my not be criteria used in your selection process, but others do think it is important.  To each his own.

Ken, I agree with you that we are all individuals with our own priorities and criteria.  Some of the guys who think that is the number one priority seem to want to force it down the throats of those who rate it on the lower end.   Personally I find too much class and sophistacation more of a turn off.  Of course that does not mean I would want a woman with no class and sophistication either.

Legal,
Of course there is a lot of mixing of cultures and backgrounds going on every where and this discussion is only about generalities.

Bruce,
A very well rounded and good post (as usual).

Dan,
I understand jb's penchant for sticking up for the ladies of Moscow as it has been suggested over and over again to avoid them and other women from the big cities because XY & Z.  There are few others here that can or will take up that side of this debate, so the tendency to be a bit over zealous is understandable in my mind.

Over zealous to make a point is one thing but jb seems to think women living anywhere but Moscow are little more than trailer trash which is far from the truth.

But I think jb's mindset goes beyond geographical background of the women we sought or continue to seek.  It goes to the "need" for the RW to leave her home town or country which is the backbone concept for every agency.  The entire reason for agencies existence is that there are a large number of fsu women in need of a better life that can be supplied by foreign men that are in need of female companionship.  The needier the woman, the more easily she will be convinced to emigrate and the more likely she will only be using the foreign man as a mule.  In some cases, it is just the color of the man's passport that is important.  The opposite is also true.  The less needy the woman, the more discriminating her choices will be.  A RW that has a comfortable lifestyle and has no agenda of leaving the Motherland, will have to be won over with considerably more than a blue passport and consistant heat and water.
KenC

I agree with you that we all seek someone who wants us and not just passage to the promissed land.   However I have not seen jb raise that issue ever.  He always talks about the quality of the women only.  Personally I think the bigger cities are part of the search area and the smaller ones have thier quality women as well and I think too the quality of the women who are available can be more important than the quality of the women.  There are quality women everywhere in Russia, Moscow and the smaller cities.

[LEGAL]

Ken C is this the generality you were talking about?

JB'S post yesterday @ 7:15 on HOWTO JUGGGLE

I've traveled to the far east as far as Vladivostok, several times, and nothing compares to the women of Moscow,,, but then, I like a woman with a little on the ball.

This speaks volumes to Olga and myself!

[Son of Clyde]

Looks like jb has come out of his self imposed retirement and is back to his charming self.  

[I/O]

Photo,
Class and sophistication my not be criteria used in your selection process, but others do think it is important.  To each his own.

I/O,
Can't tell you about the grading system of meat in AU, but here in America there is a wide range of quality grades in beef.  A lower grade of steak can be almost inedible whereas a high grade will be so tender it will melt in your mouth. So, your "faulty" analogy actually endorses the opposite of what you wanted.

Ken, I had a smile at your remark, because I was well aware of the weakness in the example as I posted it, but I did actually give a few guys here enough credit as to understand the "Rough Cut" and leave aside pedanticism.
Note the "I think the point will be understood" in brackets.  You know they are those little curly things before and after.  Yeah I can be a sarchastic smart arse also.

As for the class and sophistication thing.  Of course...!!!  Right on..!!  But and here is the but.....who dictates what one considers class and what one considers sophisticated.  You and I might measure this by hmmmmm for example, an ability to mix with all classes of society comfortably AND have all classes of society be comfortable in this person's company.  I think we both know what I mean here. (Education, elegance, eloquence etc)  But others may have a different measure and notwithstanding experience, knowledge and so forth, I don't think it is fair or right to try to influence the new commer as to what the parameters are.  Not saying you did that directly, but to an outsider, it does come across a little bit that way.  I would encourage anyone to seek class and sophistication, but I would also say, sit down rationally and decide for your self what that is. 

I have noted JB's sensitivity regarding ladies from the bigger cities and again that is him and others are others, but I do want to make the point here that I have NEVER and NEVER will directly or indirectly intentionally condemn one or other group.  In fact I have no preference whatsoever, because I consider I  am rounded enough in my views and standards to mix with who I choose when I choose and where I choose. Been there done that so to say. However, having had a bit of time this evening to read a little more history, I can understand slightly why JB is sooooooooo sensitive about this subject.

However, I do happen to think that guys from certain demographics should be careful about which demographic they target.  I think that just makes simple "Good Sense".  (Note again, I don't use common sense, because if it was so bl@@dy common, eveyone would have it)

I have quizzed a little here about those who have looked outside the major metropoliton areas simply out of curiosity, however I sense that has been taken as a preference and a push to others to do just that.  IT AIN'T...!!!  I guess I have met a few spectacular ladies in some very unexpected places and thus feel that it is good for the newbie to consider all options, whether she lives 2 blocks from Red Square or on the southern banks of Baikal.

I don't know if I can explain that any more clearly to the board.  There is a group of fairly "Hard Headed" people here which I happen to be impressed with having come from a forum riddled with "Sooks", but the posters here are also amazingly "Thin Skinned" and reactionary.  Having read through the "Bonfire" thread over the last hour or so, I notice the suger candy and clue bat clubs being polarised into different corners.  Looks to me more like Rabbitts and Foxes with a cliff in close proximity to me in that thread.   If the foxes were smart they would have gotten between the rabbits and the cliff and thus caught their quarry.  Conversely if the rabbits had been smart, they would have gone to ground so the foxes couldn't get at them.  Everyone was well meaning, but not particularly smart in that one.

If I may make one further comment, forums generally are better served by "Objective comments on the subjects, rather than Subjective comments on the Objects".  Yeah.......I'm no better than the next person, but it doesn't stop me preaching.

I/O who has now set himself up to be eaten by the foxes and shat on by the rabbits.

[Turboguy]

Actually PG, jb seems rested and refreshed and at the top of his jb form.

I think when it comes to sophistication there is a fine line between sophistication and snobishness.   I have no problem with sophistication as long as it doesn't cross the line.  Then I find it a turn off.  Of course sophistication is still not one of the major criteria when I was searching.   A good, heart, intelligence, passion for life, honesty, inner strength, common values and ideas and good family values were much more important to me.

[swindoom]

If you are mediocre and need to look for a woman in dire straits, out in the hinterland, then you know your place better than I.  ... In fact, I have done better.  People like you will always play second fiddle because you refuse to play in the big leagues.

I think this condescending and arrogant statement muddys the point you are trying to make.

There are lots of decent, educated, attractive, and wonderful women all over Russia and lots of women who are not, Moscow does not have a monopoly on any type of woman, good or bad.

[CaptB]

T/G,

I have always advocated (as Bruce stated) "beginning" your search in a city that is appealing to you......as you will find yourself visiting there, most likely....many times in the future.....if you match with someone from there. Many people on this board critize this line of thought.....Because I would be eliminating many women from less-than desirable locations. I am not (nor do I think Bruce is). If in your search you find an incredible woman and you have mutual feelings for each other......you would be a fool to bypass such a find. BUT.......you (newbies) need to start somewhere. Particularly if you are choosing to visit more than one woman.....it is just more practical if they reside in the same area........which gives more time for meeting......and less time commuting. If you had a choice between an incredible woman and wonderful location.......or the same woman in a crappy location......what would you choose? My comment on choosing a nice city was always directed towards "newbies"........but was never limited to such a location......if you find your soulmate.........elsewhere.


I've been to Russia many times over the years. I get tired of hearing the advice of "if you are small town....stick with same"....................."save big city RW for guys in large urban areas. Jb's wife is a born/raised Moscovitcka.......but enjoys living in a "tiny" town a ways
from Corpus Christi, TX. My wife is from a mid-sized city.....but resides in Gaylord, MI. She said she would probably enjoy Chicago also........as long as her husband was there. I got the impression that native born Moscovites.....sure like to go to the country alot. Those who moved to Moscow from smaller cities.....sure seem to like their new, bigger home. Many in New York (working).....commute from the suburbs.....or even close-by New England states. Many small-town folks.......dream of residing in the big cities. I think you can find an RW......anywhere.......who will want to be.......with you.....and where you reside.


Capt B

[KenC]

As for the class and sophistication thing.  Of course...!!!  Right on..!!  But and here is the but.....who dictates what one considers class and what one considers sophisticated.

I/O,
Of course the level of class and sophistication desired is set by the man doing the seeking.  (I didn't think I really needed to say that )  Your future wife should fit into your world if that is the one you two are going to live in.  The opposite would be true if you were relocating into her world.

Lena and I have made many acquaintances and friends with RW here in the States and they come in all forms.  I will give you two extreme examples.

A woman from Moscow in her late 30's emigrated here with here wealthy Russian husband and family.  Lived a good life there and here up until a divorce.  Once was a beautiful woman, but has let herself go somewhat.  She has all the aristocratic and snobby tendencies that some here point out comes from a Moscovite.  She was a bore to be with because all she could focus on is her past beauty and past glorious lifestyle.  She was not handling becoming a working single mom in America very well at all.  Her aloofness did not match her position in life and would still be a turn off if it did.  We have now heard that she is back with her Russian husband and that is probably best for her.  We don't associate with her any more.  But while we did, she exhibited all the sophistication, class and moralistic behavior a man could hope for.

Flip side is a 25 year old Ukrainian girl that came to America totally using some naive young man from Nebraska as a mule.  She came from a very rural village, had limited education and zero class or sophistication. (She literally ate a fillet minion at my dinner table with her hands!)  She did have some good qualities in that she was a very determined and hard working woman with a great personality.  We befriended her and tried to help her overcome her poor background, but her immoral behavior was just too low for us to continue any type of relationship with her.  She cheated on her husband through out the 2 year waiting period for her GC and used sex as a commodity to latch onto one guy after another and didn't even limit herself to one at a time.  A total prostitute.

What does this all mean?  Who knows?  Just 2 first hand examples of the worst from big cities and small.
KenC

[KenC]

Capt B,
Glad you moved your post here.

I've been to Russia many times over the years. I get tired of hearing the advice of "if you are small town....stick with same"....................."save big city RW for guys in large urban areas. Jb's wife is a born/raised Moscovitcka.......but enjoys living in a "tiny" town a ways
from Corpus Christi, TX. My wife is from a mid-sized city.....but resides in Gaylord, MI. She said she would probably enjoy Chicago also........

If you compare your experience with your wife to mine (both Tver) it only proves that there are no rules.  As Bruce's wife is also from Tver and they live in NY, it might even further dilute any similarities due to city of origination.

When Lena moved here, I lived in an upscale suburb of Detroit and she hated it.  She thought she had moved to a village and had a difficult time wrapping her mind around suburban living.  The fact that Detroit had no viable downtown life at the time only exasperated the difficulties.  In moving to San Diego, she has made a great transition however.  She now appreciates our suburban lifestyle and has great admiration for a bustling downtown area.  Life is good here for the both of us.

A sidenote to you.  Lena and I spent a lot of time in Charlevoix, TC and Petosky as I had a summer home on Lake Charlevoix.  Dacha living at it's finest!   Hope all is well for you and you got your deer and the snow isn't too high.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Capt B,  Thanks for the clarification and I agree with what you said.  My former Fiance was from N. Novgorod, which has a population of 2 million and loved it in this area with a population in the tens of thousands.  

On the Big city guy, look for a big city girl etc type thing I have to wonder if a more important factor than the size of the city might be the life tempo of the woman.  I am not sure I picked the right word in "life tempo" but without sitting at the keyboard and racking my brain it is what I come up with.

I think there could well be big city gals who are happiest with the slow relaxing pace of their Dacha's  There could be small city girls who dream of and crave the hustle, bustle and excitement of the big city and really are going to be happiest with big city life.    

KenC,  I think most of us would be turned off by a gal who ate a Fillet with her bare hands and she would likely not even get to the second date place.  Of course men being men if she was beautiful and built well, she could probably eat a live rat with her bare hands and someone would overlook it.

Different people look at words with their own nuances.  I think it could be interesting to get your and jb's definition of the words class and sophistication as it applies to RW.  I am sure it is more than using a knife and fork to eat a steak.  Can you two share this with us?

[KenC]

Turbo,
I out and out laughed at your "eat a live rat" comment! TFF!

Class and sophistication, what does it mean?  I'll take a stab at what it means to me.  It is the ability to fit in with any level of social gathering without intimidation.  A truly classy woman will make people feel comfortable around her whether it is a country BBQ with a few beers or the snootiest upscale gathering of snobbish people without play acting.

Lena has that ability and I admire her for it.  She was very young when she arrived and yet she was comfortable and made others comfortable around her with the snobs at my pretentious country club or my very blue collar friend's outdoor BBQ.

Soon after we were married, I had an extremely important conference in Orlando with one of the major national retailers and my best customer at the time.  She was amazing!  After dinner, most of the executives gathered in the lobby bar/lounge area that had been secured for our use only.  I knew the drill as I had attended this event from it's inception 10 or 12 years prior.  This is where the impressions and money is made for the future.  Of course some of these executives were more than curious about KenC's new hot young wife and weren't shy about coming over to talk with us.  Mind you, that I had had years of relationships with these people too and we would have talked any way.  By the end of the night it was quite a sight to see Lena debating WWII and eloquently correcting them on the facts with the president, the executive VP and 2 other VP's.  It just so happened that the Executive VP was a Russian history major in college and the others fancied themselves as quite well informed on the subject of WWII. (Lena's grandfather was an officer in the Russian army during WWII and she knew her stuff)  Everyone of the participants came to me the next day and all they could do is shake their heads and tell me that my wife was amazing and that I was the luckiest man on earth.
KenC

[Photo Guy]

KenC,

Yes we agree on 'To each his own.'
And you know I have nothing against 'class' or 'sophistication'.
I just resent people who do not have those qualities, telling me
where to find women with those qualities.  It's arrogant and does show
me a lack of 'class'.

[William3rd]

eating a filet with her hands?!?!?!?!? If she will gnaw on a bone as well, send her my way. . . . I would be happy to share a roast with her

[KenC]

KenC,

Yes we agree on 'To each his own.'
And you know I have nothing against 'class' or 'sophistication'.
I just resent people who do not have those qualities, telling me
where to find women with those qualities.  It's arrogant and does show
me a lack of 'class'.

Please quit editorializing your opinions of other members here and stick to the topic which is Village vs. Big City RW.  No one appointed you the "attitude" police.  If you don't like a members attitude put him or her on ignore.  Attack the message not the messanger.
KenC

[jinx13]

KenC,

 Since when did you become jb's lawyer? Thanks for explaining to us all what he "meant" to say.

 I'm not speaking for P/G, but in my own experience it becomes difficult to ignore the messenger when it's the same bile being spewed over and over. It does get old having to point it out, and I was not appointed "jerk police" (my term for it) so as Nataly would say...Vwat-ehhhver (whatever)    Let the big boys have their fun and get the attention they so desperately need.

[TexasBoar]

Wow! Look what happened to my thread since I went to bed last night!  

Good content, low flame content (some was perhaps inevitable).  I do think "If you are mediocre and need to look for a woman in dire straits, out in the hinterland, then you know your place better than I.  ... In fact, I have done better.  People like you will always play second fiddle because you refuse to play in the big leagues." was perhaps a bit uncalled for, jb.  After all, if one finds a woman who happens to be from . . . well, anywhere outside Moscow, lol . . . and is HAPPY . . . and has found a compatible soul . . . I don't think it automatically means that one is "mediocre" or that she is "in dire straits." (though I give you full credit for spelling "straits" properly!)  Not saying that mediocre men don't end up with desperate women, mind you---but that happens HERE, too.

~Boar

[jinx13]

 To the topic at hand...

 I didn't choose the city of the girl I ended up falling in love with, she happens to be from Sumy Ukraine, if she was from Kiev it would have changed nothing. Many of the guys here are saying the same thing, it's the person that counts, and most of us know what kind of person best suits our own wants, needs, social class, upbringing, blah blah blah.

 It doesn't make you a better person to 'marry up' in class, your still the same. Most of us choose our partner based on what we feel comfortable with, city of origin for both parties becomes irrelevant pretty early on in the relationship...sure maybe she prefers sunny California, but she would move to Bumfuk, Arkansas to be by your side if she truly loves you. The same goes for us, I would marry a girl from the farthest most remote village in Siberia if she was indeed my soulmate.

 Having said that, if I were a newbie and hadn't found the girl I was looking for yet, I might start with a larger city especially if it's your first time to the FSU. In the beginning it's not just about finding that special girl, it's about discovering a special culture with a long history that is fascinating and just adds to the allure of Russian women. It helps to know something about her motherland and the larger cities just have more to see in the way of history, culture, and entertainment. Then again you learn a lot in those villages too, but I think it's better for the newbie to ease himself into this, culture shock is the real deal if some of you have forgotten, remember the first time flying into Moscow, Kiev, St. Pete? The nervous anticipation of entering "Planet Russia" It's truly a different world than we were all used to, it takes a little time to appreciate it for what it is, and even more time to understand Russian women, and I'm not talkin' about language!  

 Big city, small village, doesn't matter, love is what matters.  

[Turboguy]

KenC,

I appreciate your efforts to describe class and sophisticating.  I can agree with your part about "A truly classy woman will make people feel comfortable around her whether it is a country BBQ with a few beers or the snootiest upscale gathering of snobbish people without play acting." being an important quality for some but my thoughts are more that those qualities are being comfortable in her own skin, having self confidence and being socially skilled more than being sophisticated which she is also.

When I read your example of the conference in Orlando it brought to my mind a few experiences I have had where the opposite occurred.  

The first was long ago with my very jealous 21 year old girlfriend when I was 45.  I took her to Atlanta to something much like you described.  There was an opening reception where the right conversation could be worth several hundred thousand dollars to you over a period of time.  I took Vickie and 5 of my sales people with their wives whom she knew well and was comfortable with.  I needed to "work the room" which I think is a term you are familiar with.  Vickie did not want to go with me so I left here with the others.  Before long she went running to the room in tears, I guess feeling abandoned.  I went up and talked to her and calmed her down.  

My second is when Luda arrived.  She originally should have arrived on August 2nd but because of the problems with the visa she arrived on the 22nd.  Our company picnic was the 26th.  I felt uncomfortable taking her, and uncomfortable leaving her and wished she had arrived when she should have which would have let her get more comfortable.   I knew she was nervous and tried to stay with her constantly but still an hour into it she went running into the woods crying and I took her home and skipped the rest of the picnic.

Now what I am trying to get at.  Both these gals in my estimation had problems with their self confidence and their feelings of self worth.   Does their actions make them unsophisticated or just not socially skilled and comfortable in their own view of their self worth?  Do their actions mean that no one should ever love them or want them for a wife?  

I have not had the occasion to be in a situation such as you described with VWRW.  I have a feeling if it ever does occur that VWRW will do every bit as well as Lena did with you.  VWRW has a lot of confidence and great people skills.  I like that but it has little to do with why she is special to me.

[viking]

To the topic at hand...

 I didn't choose the city of the girl I ended up falling in love with, she happens to be from Sumy Ukraine, if she was from Kiev it would have changed nothing. Many of the guys here are saying the same thing, it's the person that counts, and most of us know what kind of person best suits our own wants, needs, social class, upbringing, blah blah blah.

 It doesn't make you a better person to 'marry up' in class, your still the same. Most of us choose our partner based on what we feel comfortable with, city of origin for both parties becomes irrelevant pretty early on in the relationship...sure maybe she prefers sunny California, but she would move to Bumfuk, Arkansas to be by your side if she truly loves you. The same goes for us, I would marry a girl from the farthest most remote village in Siberia if she was indeed my soulmate.

 Having said that, if I were a newbie and hadn't found the girl I was looking for yet, I might start with a larger city especially if it's your first time to the FSU. In the beginning it's not just about finding that special girl, it's about discovering a special culture with a long history that is fascinating and just adds to the allure of Russian women. It helps to know something about her motherland and the larger cities just have more to see in the way of history, culture, and entertainment. Then again you learn a lot in those villages too, but I think it's better for the newbie to ease himself into this, culture shock is the real deal if some of you have forgotten, remember the first time flying into Moscow, Kiev, St. Pete? The nervous anticipation of entering "Planet Russia" It's truly a different world than we were all used to, it takes a little time to appreciate it for what it is, and even more time to understand Russian women, and I'm not talkin' about language!  

 Big city, small village, doesn't matter, love is what matters.  

Thank you Jinx.
Sometimes we tend to forget what this 'search' is all about'. Finding a woman who wants you, and appreciates you for 'who you are'. And of course vice versa. If it works for you, then it works for you. Happiness can be found in the strangest places.

[Photo Guy]

KenC, surely you see the irony...

Yes we agree on 'To each his own.'
And you know I have nothing against 'class' or 'sophistication'.
I just resent people who do not have those qualities, telling me
where to find women with those qualities.  It's arrogant and does show
me a lack of 'class'.

Those statements are less valid than the point of view about
searching for a woman in Moscow for a woman with
'more on the ball'?
 :hairraising:
I disagree with the 'more on the ball' concept.
It can't be substantiated, and it trashes women in the smaller cities.
'nuff said.

[KenC]

Turbo,
You asked for my definition and I gave it a shot.  Whatever the terminology, I think you get what I was saying.  Some how I do not see VWRW running form a picnic nor a business meeting.

Photo,
"On the ball" could mean a lot of things and I might venture to guess, but Jinxie would get too twisted over it.  But let me just say that it just may not be as negative as you are taking it.
KenC

[LEGAL]

The needier the woman, the more easily she will be convinced to emigrate and the more likely she will only be using the foreign man as a mule.  In some cases, it is just the color of the man's passport that is important.  The opposite is also true.  The less needy the woman, the more discriminating her choices will be.  A RW that has a comfortable lifestyle and has no agenda of leaving the Motherland, will have to be won over with considerably more than a blue passport and consistant heat and water.
KenC

You should not generalize all women. More often the less needy  woman uses the men like a mule and in-love-donkey and so she is the less needy woman and allways won.
Good luck boys and be careful Olga

[Turboguy]

KenC,  Thanks for taking a shot at the definition.  I thought you did very well and I did not mean my comment to be negative about you or the definition you gave.   I just wanted to add some observations to your good comments. 

Yes, I think the biggest problem the other gals had was lack of self confidence and low self esteem.  VWRW is confindent and has a good self image and my guess is she would be comfortable in any circumstances she finds herself in.