Big City Women vs. Village Girls

[IAmZon]

Excellent I/O!

Then it is Romania first, then Kiev, St. Petersburg, or Moscow.  I will let you decide.

[vwrw]

From Olga:
A smart pretty less needy "angel" uses mule to get green card. And after 5 years (or if a mule more Lucky after 10 years) she gets a divorce and money and for her baby too and after she will be looking for another mule.
Maybe we should write a book "How to use mule"

Olga, if you talk about primitive women, not smart… then you are right, they do so. Because they know from their own experience a mule is all they can achieve from men’s world. But even the primitive women pray to meet a king, not a mule and live with the king for rest life.   
As about classy women who are magnates for men (and believe me they are magnates for men not because they wear good clothes or have dinner in good restaurants). They will not live with mules to get green card or money. It is a boring, unneeded losing time to their mind so as green card or money are not values for them. They value an exciting experience, wisdom and a high intellect. And only men who have those and can give those to woman are allowed to be around the classy women as husbands, as fathers of their children, as friends. 

I think if one wants a classy woman he needs analyze what are the values woman has, not important where she lives. 

[I/O]

Excellent I/O!

Then it is Romania first, then Kiev, St. Petersburg, or Moscow.  I will let you decide.

I would never presume to make anyone's plans for them, but if you wish to experience Russian culture and history, I would think you would be smarter to go St P/Moscow/Kiev/wherever.  I like the provincial cites, but honestly you can't go east without spending some time in St P or Moscow or both.  These places just have too much to offer.  Use Romania as a wind down on the way home.

I/O

[LEGAL]

There are different villages in Russia. Some villages endure social and economic crisis some willages are part of agricultural centers
 some villages are Russian historic places.
You'll never meet a dairymaid on dating sites. But you can meet the Farmers' daughters
living in a big city and now they are city women.
Many educated women live and work in the villages and small towns - teachers, doctors, librarians,  museum curators and so on.
What's important to you? Her mind and soul? or place of residence?

Gallery from Olga
"Russian villages"

[LEGAL]

Gallary 2 from Olga
"Russian villages"

[jinx13]

Wonderful Photo's Olga!

 Very good points made Legal. When I originally wrote in this thread I guess I was thinking more like 'Big City vs Small City' not villages per say, but you're right, it's all about what's really important.

[Jumper]

I/O--
i will clarify, but  i think we are talking semantics?
LOL
I lived/worked out of Prague for two years.
Yes a lot of foriegners visit there,. a LOT.

When i post here,
 i am taking into account the audience?
 and the vast majority of  the guys reading here are not considering the city of Prague ,anywhere else in the czech rep ,,
or similar former USSR countries,
 as destinations in thier actual searches?
Hey i've been around these boards awhile and have certainly known guys going to Prague, but almost invariably to meet a woman from Russia or Ukraine..
sure i've known the random guy who traveled to romania or czech rep to meet a native there,,
but its the exception not the rule..on these RW forums?

now if i was posting on a german travel  forum.. it changes things eh?

 *on  topic*
I was posting in the same frame of audience--?
That the vast majority of readers will be going to kiev /st pete, or some provinial russian or ukranian city?

and if they are debating the topic of *village vs city girls*-
 i'd somewhat safely  assume they mean to compare a girl from:
 
Dnepropetrovsk , Kharkov ,St Pete, Volgograd, Rostiv onDon -
to a true village near the nearby geographic area. 
 *shrugs*



LEGAL.
nice photos and post !

You'll never meet a dairymaid on dating sites. But you can meet the Farmers' daughters
living in a big city and now they are city women

Thanks for putting so well  into two sentences what i was trying to convey!!

and i diffinantly agree that the important things have little to do with residence ..

i was just pointing out the folly of the debate ,
or at least as it is *labled*
 
anyway guys will not likely meet a *true village girl*,
(unless she relocated)
and its extreemly unlikeky he would ever even corresponde with one thru some agency website ..
so no need to debate the pros and cons..
of village girl vs a city girl.

(where i'm convinced a village girl can hold her own quite well actually)

as far as provincial cities vs major cities..

they both have advantages and disadvantages..
i'd say it almost equals out..
throw in the fact you're meeting an *individiual*
 who may or may not be influenced much by thier residence..
and it pretty much is a mute point in my book.

In my mind its either-
1. pick somewhere interesting to you,
 and go visit the PLACE;.
while there .meet some people..
or arrange before hand thru a few intro letters to meet them..or a local agency.
either way you might meet someone of mutual interest,and take it from there..

2. write many , and when finding someone (or someones i suppose )of real interest go visit them!!!!
thier city wether its a major one or provincial one, wont be the key part of your trip anyway.
have some agencies  as a  back up plan so your not left twiddlin' your thumbs.

[LEGAL]

Thank you AJ! That post was Olga's baby all the way, I am very fortunate to have such a great intelligent beautiful wife. Oh yes she is from Kemerovo.


                   Sincerely
                   LEGAL

[I/O]

I/O--I lived/worked out of Prague for two years.
Yes a lot of foriegners visit there,. a LOT.

I sensed and have had it confirmed that you may well have had more than average exposure to the area.  Sort of chain yanking a bit to focus on another point which I think many forget.  That is, there is plenty of competition all over the FSU for decent ladies. I just think those who havn't travelled there need to be made acutely aware that it ain't no pushover. 

The secondary point, but no less important, is that because of the above, if anyone finds a group/s or for that matter individuals who do fall into the pushover bracket, take steps and big long ones at that in the opposite direction because it is NOT a confirmation of the marketing that it is simple to find a good woman abroad.

I/O

[Turboguy]

That is, there is plenty of competition all over the FSU for decent ladies. I just think those who haven't travelled there need to be made acutely aware that it ain't no pushover. 

I have heard a lot of speculation that things are changing and FSU women are becoming less available and more selective.   Most frequently we blame the economy and the fact the income and economic conditions are getting better.

Back at the time KenC started searching and I started my search very few men were going to the FSU compared to now.  Most of the men now I see involved in a search are guys I see posting on RWD.  When I made my early trips I did not meet a lot of others but it was guys I ran into in the airport, or guys who went on a tour I was on.   The quality of the men I see now is much better than the quality of the men I used to see.   I am sure that women do the same things we do, go with their best available options.  I think the options available for women are far better than they used to be so I have to agree with I/O, the competion is strong and finding the gal you really want to find is not a pushover.   Fortunately those who hang out at RWD are much better equipped to have success.

[KenC]

Turbo,
I think you make a good point about the men going to Russia now being of higher caliber than back 8 or 9 years ago.  I only wonder if that view point is somewhat skewed by our involvement with forums like this one though?  I am sure there are plenty of dufuses still making a one time trip to pick a puppy because they can't find love at home!  They just don't participate in forums.

I don't have any statistical evidence, but I do think there is an increase in the volume of men going to fsu countries seeking wives.  I think it has become more popular because there is just so much more information available today than before on both sides of the coin (here and in fsu).  Back in 98 there were only a fraction of websites available and not many, if any forums like this one.  Information was sketchy at best if available at all.  Of course the publicity, however bad, has also made people more aware of the possibilities too.  I won't go as far to say that seeking a foreign wife is more acceptable now than then, but by the sheer numbers of foreign marriages, people are at least aware of some successes.  I also think that the fsu countries have teched up with more Internet access and that contributes to the increased popularity. 
KenC

[Admin]

Turbo,
I think you make a good point about the men going to Russia now being of higher caliber than back 8 or 9 years ago.  I only wonder if that view point is somewhat skewed by our involvement with forums like this one though?  I am sure there are plenty of dufuses still making a one time trip to pick a puppy because they can't find love at home!  They just don't participate in forums.

I don't have any statistical evidence, but I do think there is an increase in the volume of men going to fsu countries seeking wives.  I think it has become more popular because there is just so much more information available today than before on both sides of the coin (here and in fsu).  Back in 98 there were only a fraction of websites available and not many, if any forums like this one.  Information was sketchy at best if available at all.  Of course the publicity, however bad, has also made people more aware of the possibilities too.  I won't go as far to say that seeking a foreign wife is more acceptable now than then, but by the sheer numbers of foreign marriages, people are at least aware of some successes.  I also think that the fsu countries have teched up with more Internet access and that contributes to the increased popularity. 
KenC

Back in '97 and '98, the only forums in operation were Planet-Love, and a couple of others which have since shut down. The St. Johns list was active starting in 1997, IIRC.

Patrick, who started the P-L site, recently told me that he thinks the activity peaked just prior to the tech bust in the market - which was what, maybe 1999 or 2000?

He speculates (and it seems logical) that it is directly proportional to disposable income. The more disposable income available - such as when techs and the market were "irrationally exuberant" - and the more activity with international travel and marriages.

The other factor which is now upon us has the effect of dampening this activity - and that is the onerous legislation of IMBRA which promises to get MUCH worse.

In gross generalities, I suspect there is NOT as much activity in the international introductions arena as there was 8 years ago - even with relaxation of the visa regimes in Ukraine and more accessible internet. But I could easily be wrong.

Just FWIW

- Dan

[Turboguy]

Dan, You would know better than I but to me it seems to continue to grow. 

I made my first trip in 1996.  Going at all was challenging and difficult.   Arranging meetings was also not easy.  The contacts came from magazines such as "Club Prima" the one I used most or their arch rival that they complained about EC.  The intenet was in it's infancy.   It was almost impossible to find an agency to help with the visa  (I found one which saved my day).   When I told my travel agent I wanted to go to Russia she looked at me like I was crazy and said why do you want to go to an awful place like that.  She said she had been there and would not recommend it to anyone.  Trying to find a hotel was nearly impossible.  Travel within Russia was a pain.  In those days you had to use the "Intourist" office at the airport which was terrible to find.  You were not allowed to buy a train ticket at the station. 

You would set your meetings with snail mail which had a 4-6 week turn around time.  Cell phones were non existant in the FSU.  Telephones and mail unreliable.   My first two trips were an absolutely amazing experience but they sure were not easy.  Even in 1998 when I made my second trip it was much, much easier. 

If things were like they were when I started this I am sure there would be little competion for the women there.  It was just too difficult for it to be a mass thing.

[viking]

I know I am speaking out of turn here, but there seems to be, in almost evey type of 'market' ups and downs. Back in the late sixies, when we had the British Revoltion (Beatles and so forth ), it was cool having a G/F who was English. I was lucky and she and I had a grand time for awhile, then it slowly lost its appeal. Is it possible that the RW dating scene may not be as popular as it once was for no other reason than the allure is simply slowing down?  It may be easier to fly back and forth and find better accomodations, but are there more men actually going over? Or are the regulations in the states turning some guys back and the RWs are being approached more from men in the UK or other EU countries?

[I/O]

I am sure there are plenty of dufuses still making a one time trip to pick a puppy because they can't find love at home!  They just don't participate in forums.

KenC I'll come back to your words in a moment.  I would have thought the numbers making trips has increased over the last few years, but Dan's comments shoot that and I don't have any actual data to work with. 

What I do know as fact is this, in my country there is often something very negative in the print media or sometimes the electronic media tageting international marriages and quoting the FSU in particular with vastly inflated numbers.  Example a 12 month period was quoted as having several thousand FSU / Au marriages.  Fact : Jan 1/04 through Dec 30/05 (2 years) Actual number 92. (Information gotten under the freedom of information act FOI) I wouldn't be surprised if percentages of fact vs fiction might be similar in the USA.

Yes, Ken there is mobs of "Duds" over there from Aus, Uk, Germany and USA and it is one of the reasons I first considered looking away from the major cities, it is just shameful and perhaps I am being a snob here, but I just can't cop seeing how some act in another country.  Bangkok is another favourite haunt of this crew.  Ultimately, I guess the positive is that they keep the youknowwhos in a job.

I/O

[Momus]

I'm biased, because my girl is a Muscovite with a pedigree approaching that of jb's wife. I'll make only three points:

1. I'm certain that M would not be as sophisticated if she hailed from most any other city in the FSU, and had she not had the advantages her family afforded her growing up in the USSR. Example: She likely wouldn't have enjoyed a world-class education in classical piano dating from the age of 5.

2. I may be ruined. If things don't work out with M, I think I will have a hard time looking in the provinces. Fortunately, I grow more positive every day that this won't be necessary.

3. I'm certain that *I* would not be as sophisticated (to the extent that I am sophisticated at all) if I hadn't enjoyed the opportunity to travel widely and live in cities such as New York, LA, Houston, New Orleans, and Minneapolis. As Viking correctly points out, much of sophistication is opportunity, experience, and exposure...and then what you learn from it and do with it.

[KenC]

Momus,
Glad to hear everything is moving forward for you!  Good luck buddy.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Momus,  we all get biased and think our gal is the most wonderful person in the world.  It is normal and I am glad to hear your romance is progressing well.  Perhaps reading all the posts about bickering and arguing has put me in the mood to bicker and argue and besides that I am already on record for believing that Moscow women do not have a corner on class and sophistication.   I thought everyone knew the classiest and most sophisticated gals come from Barnaul.

The first thing I am going to bicker and argue about is your statement about where you have lived.  I am not questioning your sophistication nor am I saying that the diversity you encountered did not help you grow as a person.   I do believe that a truly sophisticated person is almost totally formed by the time they are 18.  If they have it then, they will always have it.  If they don't they never will.  It is not something you can learn later in life.  Traveling makes you traveled.  Money can make you rich.  If you were brought up to have class and sophistication that gives you class and sophistication.

I will not say that living in Moscow or New York does not give someone an edge in developing class and sophistication.  Yes, learning the piano at 5 is great.   When I went on Jack's tour one of the three gals I liked the best was from little Kharkov.  She grew up with money, married and divorced money.  She was a concert pianist and when I quit writing to her she was on her way to India to do a concert tour.   I have a feeling on the basis you are talking she was every bit the equal of your woman.  She was also one of the most beautiful women I have ever met.   She reeked class and sophistication.   She was an impressive woman but not nearly the right woman for me that VWRW is.    I think there are lots of women including mine, Dan's, Michaelangelo's and too many to mention that have tons of class and sophistication that are not from Moscow.   I think your woman sounds wonderful.  I hope it all goes well and you have a long and happy live together.   Personally I think the education and social structure in all of Russia and the FSU has put more emphasis on the things that we see as class and sophistication and it is a quality that can be found many places there.

[LEGAL]

Hey, boys!
Sometimes it is funny to read what you are writing.
You are like children boasting of toys.
I can say for me my husband is the best husband in the world and especially on this site Because as the saying goes, all my gooses are swans 
Everything what we love in this life is the best of the best for us.

Sincerely
Olga.

[I/O]

Hey, boys!
Sometimes it is funny to read what you are writing.
You are like children boasting of toys.
I can say for me my husband is the best husband in the world and especially on this site Because as the saying goes, all my gooses are swans 
Everything what we love in this life is the best of the best for us.

Sincerely
Olga.

Olga, that is just too funny and too true.  It is called male ego.  Every man wishes to parade the spoils of his own particular victory.  Usually the less comfortable one is in their own skin, the more they will parade their spoils of battle. 

I can see why you nailed your man.  I think you have a pretty good handle on it and BTW I happen to think your comments add much to this site.

I/O  who is still LHAO

[Jet]

Notwithstanding AJ's excellent observations regarding true "village" life, I think that if we apply the theory of Occam's razor to the last 7 pages, it can be distilled down to this comment on the second page:

Dan,

I didn't say there was anything wrong with ladies from Kremenchug, I'm simply saying there is nothing wrong with Moscow either.  Some ladies are getting a bad rap here, ill deserved at that.

[David1963]

Notwithstanding AJ's excellent observations regarding true "village" life, I think that if we apply the theory of Occam's razor to the last 7 pages, it can be distilled down to this comment on the second page:

So a lady hails from a big city, enjoys art and foreign cuisine is sofisticated yet a lady from a village who makes her own clothes and cooks what little they have to eat is not sofisticated.  Maybe true but that sofistication or lack there of has nothing to with being a good wife or of good character.

A sofisticated woman is no more of a quality than blonde hair or large tits.  It's all a matter of what you like and what is a good fit for your personality. 

People act like it makes their woman better than others and that is no different than people who say their woman is better because she is younger or prettier.  It's just another aspect of the woman.

[Turboguy]

I have to agree with you David.   The make up of a person is many things.  It is character, intelligence, honesty, sophistication, intelligence, grace, personality, common sense, outlook, goals, education, taste, interests, patience, and much more.    To put too much weight on sophistication is not good common sense.

We need someone who fits our ideas of the life we want to live.   In some cases certain of those qualities are more important.   Someone who has the qualities that are important to KenC may be very different than someone who has the qualities that are important to Deknack.   The truth of it is one size does not fit all and trying to say that one quality is the important thing to everyone is being short sighted.

[KenC]

So a lady hails from a big city, enjoys art and foreign cuisine is sofisticated yet a lady from a village who makes her own clothes and cooks what little they have to eat is not sofisticated.  Maybe true but that sofistication or lack there of has nothing to with being a good wife or of good character.

To you sophistication may not make her better, but to others it might.  I hope you got what you wanted, because I sure got what I did.  To each his own, David.  This is a thread about the differences.  If you prefer a woman from the villiage, Great!

A sofisticated woman is no more of a quality than blonde hair or large tits.  It's all a matter of what you like and what is a good fit for your personality.

Actually by definition, you are wrong here.  It is not a physical characteristic like blond hair or big tits. (Which by the way could always be added later.)   It is a level of social development:

 Main Entry: so·phis·ti·ca·tion
Function: noun
Pronunciation: s&-"fis-t&-'kA-sh&n
1 a : the use of sophistry : sophistic reasoning b : SOPHISM , QUIBBLE
2 : the process or result of becoming cultured, knowledgeable, or disillusioned ; especially : CULTIVATION , URBANITY
3 : the process or result of becoming more complex, developed, or subtle

People act like it makes their woman better than others and that is no different than people who say their woman is better because she is younger or prettier.  It's just another aspect of the woman.

Is it them acting superior or are your own insecurities showing?  If you are happy with a less pretty, older, unsophisticated woman from a village that makes her own clothes and cooks well, God bless you!  I hope you found her.  There are different traits that other men think are important than those.  I hope they find a woman to fit their wants and desires too.  I know I did.
KenC

[Patrick]

To you sophistication may not make her better, but to others it might.  I hope you got what you wanted, because I sure got what I did.  To each his own, David.  This is a thread about the differences.  If you prefer a woman from the villiage, Great!
Actually by definition, you are wrong here.  It is not a physical characteristic like blond hair or big tits. (Which by the way could always be added later.)   It is a level of social development:

 Main Entry: so·phis·ti·ca·tion
Function: noun
Pronunciation: s&-"fis-t&-'kA-sh&n
1 a : the use of sophistry : sophistic reasoning b : SOPHISM , QUIBBLE
2 : the process or result of becoming cultured, knowledgeable, or disillusioned ; especially : CULTIVATION , URBANITY
3 : the process or result of becoming more complex, developed, or subtle
Is it them acting superior or are your own insecurities showing?  If you are happy with a less pretty, older, unsophisticated woman from a village that makes her own clothes and cooks well, God bless you!  I hope you found her.  There are different traits that other men think are important than those.  I hope they find a woman to fit their wants and desires too.  I know I did.
KenC

Now those are some good words of advice and a very good pat on the back. Very good Ken. I like to see and hear words as these. Some need more pats on the back and less harsh words. Very well said , thank you..