What all FSUW should know about Western Men...

[Kuna]

For the benefit of any FSU ladies that stumble in here I thought it might be interesting (and a little fun) for us to generalise about Western men...


Fact #1:  Western men that have little or no success at home dating western women will often blame the women at home.  
I wonder if they can be successful in FSU???  Does "dating dysfunction" translate or is the cultural gap their saving grace?   

Fact #2:  MOST western men have forgotten (or were never taught) about chivalry and basic gentlemanly behaviour!
I'm frequently amazed when I read advice on how to treat a RW.  "Open doors,  help with her coat, etc, etc"  Surely we do it at home and don't need to be reminded or coached???

Fact # 3: A western man who has attained "success" would have at some point appeared "addicted" to his work.  Some never recover and will remain addicted until the day they die (which might even happen while he's sitting at his desk).
If a FSUW is looking for a successful man, she should also seek to understand his lifestyle and ability to leave his work at work and devote time to his family.

Fact # 4 Western men take much longer to get over past failed relationships than a western woman.
If you meet a newly single man he's probably looking for an ego boost.  I don't believe newly single men are ready to settle down, no matter how much he says he is. 

 

I personally don't think there's anything too controversial above but some members may beg to differ.

Any other ideas gents?

Kuna

[SANDRO43]

Fact #2:  MOST western men have forgotten (or were never taught) about chivalry and basic gentlemanly behaviour!I'm frequently amazed when I read advice on how to treat a RW.  "Open doors,  help with her coat, etc, etc"  Surely we do it at home and don't need to be reminded or coached???

It depends on how:

1. Your family raised you
2. You accepted/assimilated what they taught you

As a kid, I considered these admonitions boring and old-fashioned. Later, I realised their intrinsic worth : showing CONSIDERATION to others.

Selfish people are seldom well-mannered, they are too absorbed with themselves to devote some of their time and attention to the rest of humanity, when not instrumental to their getting something out of it.

[Gator]

Interesting thoughts for a man about to embark:

1.  Don't know. 
2.  I am much older than you, and gentlemanly behavior today in public is definitely not as widely practiced as in the the 1960s.  Table manners among most American men really bother me.  I attempted to teach my sons, but they seem to have forgotten them (or recall them reluctantly in my presence).
3.  RM work long hours too, and are perhaps away from the family more than AM.
4.  News for you - women never forget.  They seem to carry a grudge longer than men.  Independent of this, every man with a failed emotional relationship needs a period of introspection - the longer the relationship, the longer the rebound period.  Many relationships die slowly and the man goes through much of the process before the relationship ends.  Interplaying with this in the case of older men are midlife crisis, children leaving the nest, etc.  One better have his head on straight to preempt a future problem.

[SANDRO43]

2.  I am much older than you, and gentlemanly behavior today in public is definitely not as widely practiced as in the the 1960s. Table manners among most American men really bother me.  I attempted to teach my sons, but they seem to have forgotten them (or recall them reluctantly in my presence).

Gator, perhaps you did not sell them convincigly enough .

In my time, and perhaps yours, too, parents just told us "do it" and no objections, which of course caused some rebellion. I must confess that in my case I did a crash mental recovery on the subject as a teen ager, when I noticed the impression made on girls at parties by a friend who would rise anytime a lady entered the room.

I thought: "Hmm, maybe there's something valuable in all that old rot, after all" .

[Jet]

Any other ideas gents?

Yeah I have an idea, how about you speak for yourself! 

[Kuna]

Of course I would never disclose any of my personal failings in public!   

[Turboguy]

I have a feeling if we were able to get a couple of American woman to come here and tell them what they should know about AM it would create the biggest controversy yet.  Not that most of it would be accurate but I would bet thier conceptions of us are not much better than ours of them.

[KenC]

Turbo,
Have you completely fallen off your rocker?  Just what I want, an AW telling me what is wrong with me!!  I traveled to the other side of the world to avoid that crap and you wanna invite them here?
KenC

[jb]

I agree, KenC,

If you really want to see the wheels come off this cart, just let a bunch of trollish AW get in the door.

[TexasBoar]

 

T/G . . . I'm assuming you dropped these:

[sarcasm][dry humor][/dry humor][/sarcasm]

Right? 

~Boar
*who prefers using smileys to guide the plaintext impaired*

[Gator]

Jet wrote,

Yeah I have an idea, how about you speak for yourself!

Too funny!  But also correct.  Kuna, I think Jet is telling you to mind your own bizzo. 

Your four generalities describe those WM who are doomed to failure:
1.  Men who have trouble dating in their home city - it has been said that even better social skills are needed in the FSU to separate the wheat from the chaff and to "process" the wheat. 
2.  Men who have no gentlemanly graces - they will be deemed disrepectful by FSU women.
3.  Men who do not have the extraordinary amount of time needed the first year to help his RW adjust to the West.
4.  Men wanting arm candy and a trophy rather than a life partner.

Maybe some if not many of the men who venture to the FSU resemble what you described. The majority?  I doubt it.  Richard in Tver would know better than me. 

The only men I know are those here at RWD.  Those who have happy relationships with a FSU woman seem completely opposite of your four generalities, based on what they reveal about themselves in their postings.

You have started a list of criteria for being a "loser."  Your list is missing "no money", "rarely traveled abroad", "searching well outside his league", "bludger", "bogan" and a few others.  Maybe a Newbie should be directed to this list to screen his capability for this endeavor.  If he can say "yes" to two or more, stay home.  And FSU women should be educated to ask such questions of suitors and eliminate accordingly.

Your departure is soon.  Yes!?  How is it going?  It is a long way beyond the Black Stump.  Leaving warm weather from Oz for winter on the Steppes.  However, the weather is so warm you may need your budgie smugglers for outdoors as well as for a banya.

I am sure you have everything in order, including packing some frangers.  Just realize that your plan will fly out the window when you land in Kiev, meaning there will be some surprises.  This is a fantastic adventure to enjoy; it is not cooking a meal according to some recipe. 

You will do very well based on what you have revealed about yourself in your writings. I do not think you will make a Blue or end up with any Bodgy women. It should be a corker.

[Turboguy]

T/G . . . I'm assuming you dropped these:

[sarcasm][dry humor][/dry humor][/sarcasm]

Right? 

~Boar
*who prefers using smileys to guide the plaintext impaired*

Yes, that was totally a joke.  I think we have all been exposed to AW's ideas of what a marrige should be like, what a wife should be like and what a husband should be like and the last thing we would need is them telling us anything. 

[Kuna]

Your departure is soon.  Yes!?  How is it going?  It is a long way beyond the Black Stump.  Leaving warm weather from Oz for winter on the Steppes.  However, the weather is so warm you may need your budgie smugglers for outdoors as well as for a banya.

I am sure you have everything in order, including packing some frangers.  Just realize that your plan will fly out the window when you land in Kiev, meaning there will be some surprises.  This is a fantastic adventure to enjoy; it is not cooking a meal according to some recipe. 

You will do very well based on what you have revealed about yourself in your writings. I do not think you will make a Blue or end up with any Bodgy women. It should be a corker.

Gator,

Loving the Aussie slang you're chucking in there mate!    You sound like a "true blue" "Dinky Di" Aussie... or an American who is being a bit of a "dag"...  but we like American dags!  

I depart on Saturday.  I'll do a pre-TR before I leave but everything is pretty much in place.  Just got some last minute shopping to do and I'm off!

As for the warm weather down here we've only seen it for the past few days.  We've had an incredibly cold winter downunder so the adjustment should be fine. I'm a little sad it's not going to be blisteringly cold but a change might be coming.

First stop for me is Hamburg where I'll stay for a few days, travel to the village where my father was from and do some sightseeing.  My biggest goal there will be avoiding my German ex-gf who now lives in Budapest but is back home at the moment.  I'm only avoiding her because I might end up married before I even get to Ukraine.  

Next is Riga where I expect to have a sensational time.  I found a great hotel in Old Riga and have some interesting little day trips planned.  I think Riga will be a real highlight for me and I actually am a little disappointed I didn't plan more time there.

Then... ahhhh....  Kiev.  

1. Meeting the newsreader on days one and two (her birthday)
2. My Dnepropetrovsk friend will be with me in Kiev for 4 days
3. Couple of days alone for some "power-dating" in Kiev
4. Off to Cherkassy to meet my other friend for a few days in her hometown
5. Back to Kiev with her for 5 days
6. A few days in Kiev for some more power-dating or to catchup with someone from power-dating session 1
7. Bite the bullet and head home... or weaken and return to Dnepropetrovsk if the mood takes me.
8. Sit on the plane on the way home and look at my original itinerary and realise nothing went to plan.  

Frangers... Check!  My intention was never NOT to be intimate but rather to not make the trip about that.  

I read a post in here the other day about someone waking their girl up and getting a mouthful over the phone.  I had a different experience when I woke one of my girls up on the weekend and spent the next hour amazed at how sexy a Russian woman sounds while waking... purring... stretching...  sighing...  giggling... telling me she likes me teasing about her purring because it makes her happy... and then she adds that she'll be happier when I bring her tea in bed.  

What I'm going to try to do is change my usual dating routine but we're all human huh!

Anyway... this is starting to look like my "pre-TR" so I'll finish here...  Business is incredibly busy at the moment and if I could have forseen the current activity I might have not travelled right now.  The world won't stop if I DO have my holiday though.

I'm really not sure how my trip will go but I do know it will be a milestone period in my life.  Can't wait to "choof off"!

Kuna

[Rvrwind]

The only men I know are those here at RWD.  Those who have happy relationships with a FSU woman seem completely opposite of your four generalities, based on what they reveal about themselves in their postings

Unfortunately they are not the majority.
I have alluded to this in the past. The # of guys on this board or the 5 boards in fact that I post on are but a very small minority of the men involved in contacting foreign women in one form or another. There are litterally thousands & of them & I would not hesitate to say that 75% are losers but I would also say those are the ones who go into it blind. Blinded by the beauty & blinded by the hype. They never find a board like this & are flying around like a bat in bight sunshine & banging into walls.
Some, get lucky & eventually find a board such as this & then they straighten up & fly level, because they get the real scoop, but for those who don't it is an endless battle of trial & error & losing money to the scammer women & agencies alike.
Most of the guys in this endeavour will never visit the FSU, they are content,for whatever reason, to write letters & play games until they become bored & move on to other things. Many are married & looking for a diversion, many are just fools wasting everybodies time.
If you were aware of the # of letters I get virtually every day you would understand it is not hard to sort the wheat from the chaff, just by their writing abilities. My first clue is usually if they are not smart enough to fill out the profile properly I don't consider them smart enough to be dating my ladies. Or those tht fill out for membership & don't pay or fill out a profile & send pics but expect us to translate their letter & give it to the lady. If you can't read simple instructions, you'd best stay home as you will deffinitly be screwed if you come here!
Those are just a couple of things that tell me right up front who I am dealing with & I decide if I want to deal with them.
Don't get me started on the pictures some of these 'losers' send!!! I certainly wouldn't post most of them for public consumption as they are disgusting.
So when it comes to quantifying the men in this endeavour, those of you lucky enough to find RWD or boards of the ame caliber are among the cream of the crop. Believe me when I tell you many of your fellows are a disgrace to the male population. If they are the majority, as in all things, the bad outweighs the good & hence the attitude of WW about WM, JMHO.

[I/O]

Unfortunately they are not the majority........ Believe me when I tell you many of your fellows are a disgrace to the male population.

Absolutely....!!!!  I admit to making my own relatively undignified entrance to the FSU, all be it, if unintentional.  However even with that minor mishap, I still think I can claim to have acted well ahead of many.  I simply never cease to be amazed at the actions of men from western but more particularly non European countries when visiting the FSU.  Some of the Euro's are less than ideal also but I guess to my eye slightly less noticable.

Although ultimately I met someone from a provincial city, I never actually seriously searched outside the majors, but I did travel extensively in the provincial areas, not least of all to avoid the ordinary specimans from my own country and others who seemed to be almost unavoidable in the major cities.  Call me highminded or a snob, I don't think so (Of course), it is simply a matter of common decency and to be in a postion where one is ashamed to admit where they are from because of the behaviours of their countrymen is not at all pleasant.

Although I would have only seen a tiny percentage of the men on my travels that Richard speaks of, I support his remarks in this area 100%.  People who read and participate in boards such as this are very very much in the minority. Anyone who reads something from this or similar boards even once is in my view far above the average who are still tracking over there.  There would, I imagine, be much worse amoungst those who never actually get there at all.

For the "Lifers" here who get frustrated with some of the dumb comments seen on here, the encouraging or depressing news, depending on how you look at it, is, these dumb remarks on here from time to time are still coming from the better end of our countries reprasentatives involved in the process.  Sad but true.  I just hope people will continue well into the future with boards such as this, because, God knows, it is sure needed. 

I actually disagree with one of the senior members here in regards the market in the FSU drying up in the future because of improved economics etc, I think the market is in danger of drying up for western men because the women up/over there will simply become too tired of the idiots and the foriegn marriage thing may very well lose much of it's appeal.

I/O

 

[Kuna]

Rvrwnd,

Firstly I agree with many of the things you say and I CAN imagine what some of the men who contact you must be like.

My original post was a little bit "tongue in cheek" but let's be honest... MANY men (even those not looking for FSU) seem to have no idea how to treat the people around them.  I don't think losers are confined to fantasising about a wife from FSU.

I say this because I look at some of my staff, the losers that some of my female friends date, and sadly some of my "friends".  It takes all types but I can tell you that I'm glad I'm male and hetro and not female and scorched.

Sure Western women are harsh and aggressive... but sometimes I can't blame them.

Kuna

[Rvrwind]

Sure Western women are harsh and aggressive... but sometimes I can't blame them.

Exactly my feelings as well.
I never came here because I couldn't date back home, I could & quite likely probably still can, & would not be adverse to marrying a CW if one came along that had what I was looking for. I am not the best lookin' guy on the block, but I know how to treat a lady & being a Gentleman Cowboy & a bit of a rebel has always attracted the ladies no matter where I go.
I came here originally on a whim actually, after meeting my friends Russian wife. I liked the accent, the way she rolled the R's when she said my name. So I flew & moved halfway around the world for that accent, so I could enjoy it every day.Long story short, I met & married a great lady & the rest is history as they say. I was single for 18 years between my divorce & remarrying. Plenty of time to lose any baggage & plenty of time to date many ladies in many places.
As has been said many times, if you can't date them back home, you ain't going to be dating them here & due to many reasons as well as the economics that gets truer & truer with each passing year. But fantasies are abundant & unfortunately for most guys thats all it will ever be, is a fantasy.

[Son of Clyde]

Are there career women in the East?
Are there liberated women in the East?
Are there women in the East who ship infants off to day care once they are fit to return to work?
Are there women in the East who use donors to provide sperm so they can become "single parents" or women who give up children only to change their mind further down the road and suddenly they feel like being parents? We are a fickle society in the West.
The US has become a single parent society and fortunately I see a recent change to more traditional values.
I think we can blame it on the 1990's with the so called accumulated wealth. And we still had a deficit.
Maybe I am all wrong about this but some of these things are true.
I loved it when a woman inquires about "where are all the decent guys" only to probably know one but the guy does not meet their criteria. Everyone has faults, even decent people. There is still the theory that AW like "dangerous" men. Give a women a biker with multiple tattoos, an alcohol problem and no job and the lady will be happy for a while. I feel like ranting today but I believe some of these things are true.

[Photo Guy]

I'm just an average looking guy, but many times AW are not approachable.
When I try to engage them in flirtatious banter, they sometimes look
at me as though I'm just another dog trying to hit on them, so
this first contact is tainted with cynicism and disrespect, without
any real basis for those feelings. Part of the problem is that many
men, in my opinion, treat women with disrespect here in the USA.
It creates a vicious cycle of disrespect. I think WM who seek RW are
looking for mutual respect and a woman who values the relationship
above career aspirations. WM want a woman who needs them, not
a woman (AW) who is ultra-independent. I am not talking about
financial dependence. I am talking about the emotional security
of interdependency. RW seem more accepting, more willing to
'open up', more willing to show a vulnerable side, while at the
same time maintaining an inner strength- a kind of serenity.

[Son of Clyde]

PG, I agree, AW are hooked on looks.
I had to work very hard when I was younger to find women and when I got older I could see RW were much more accepting. Looks did not seem to matter quite as much, it was more about decency. These qualites are shared by some AW but you really have to search for them.

[BillyB]

Most of the guys in this endeavour will never visit the FSU, they are content,for whatever reason, to write letters & play games until they become bored & move on to other things. Many are married & looking for a diversion, many are just fools wasting everybodies time.

Look on the brightside, the deabeats who are playing games, wasting time and married men writing foreign women are most likely never to visit considering only 5 or less % of the men do. That means most these losers will get hooked up, if they haven't already, with domestic women instead.

I was doing some research recently and found out about a 1996 MOB law that IMBRA replaced. When that 10 year old law was created, the justice department did a study about domestic violence and found out foreign women who marry Americans are subject to less violence than domestic women. More proof there are just as many nuts, if not more, that search for a woman at home than abroad.

[Turboguy]

I was doing some research recently and found out about a 1996 MOB law that IMBRA replaced. When that 10 year old law was created, the justice department did a study about domestic violence and found out foreign women who marry Americans are subject to less violence than domestic women. More proof there are just as many nuts, if not more, that search for a woman at home than abroad.

It shows there are a lot of nuts in Congress too!

[KenC]

I'm just an average looking guy, but many times AW are not approachable.
When I try to engage them in flirtatious banter, they sometimes look
at me as though I'm just another dog trying to hit on them, so
this first contact is tainted with cynicism and disrespect, without
any real basis for those feelings. Part of the problem is that many
men, in my opinion, treat women with disrespect here in the USA.
It creates a vicious cycle of disrespect. I think WM who seek RW are
looking for mutual respect and a woman who values the relationship
above career aspirations. WM want a woman who needs them, not
a woman (AW) who is ultra-independent. I am not talking about
financial dependence. I am talking about the emotional security
of interdependency. RW seem more accepting, more willing to
'open up', more willing to show a vulnerable side, while at the
same time maintaining an inner strength- a kind of serenity.

Photo,
I very much disagree with the highlighted statement.  AW perceive any unwanted advance as disrespectful and it isn't because they have been tainted by a disrespectful act by a man in their past.  It is because the advance is unneeded and deemed as vulgar and not complimentary.  Let me give you an example.  My first wife was an attractive and "in shape" woman who would occasionally get "hit on" by other men in my absence.  Her reaction to the attention was one of disdain for the guy as you said above.  But it wasn't because of a history of disrespectful men in her past, but because she thought she was so much better than the man making the advance.  It was like "how dare that slob (or insert any characteristic that she might use to make herself look superior here) think he is good enough for me."  Once an AW has a man, she is insulted by other men's advances.

This is handled completely opposite by RW.  Lena is flattered by other men's attention.  I have seen her in action.  She gives the guy a big smile and is sincere in her "thank you very much" to him as she explains that she is married.  RW appreciate a man's attention where AW ridicule them for doing so.

I know you are very respectful and protective of women, but to make excuses for their bad behavior towards you is a little over the top, don't  you think?  You know you never mistreated a woman, so why make excuses for their bad behavior towards you?
KenC

Edited to add:  It was announced on tonight's news that for the first time in our country's history there is a higher percentage of unmarried women than married women.  In 1950 there were only 35% of women that remained single, in 2000 it was 46% and as of today they exceed 50% by a few points.  The biggest increased subcategory were women that found marriage unnecessary!

[Kuna]

PG, I agree, AW are hooked on looks.
I had to work very hard when I was younger to find women and when I got older I could see RW were much more accepting. Looks did not seem to matter quite as much, it was more about decency. These qualites are shared by some AW but you really have to search for them.

I'm not sure about American women but I can promise you Women from everywhere else that I've met don't just focus on looks.  In my opinion women go through phases.

When they are young many of them focus only on looks because they are almost "competing" with their friends as to who can get the "hot" guy. Often it's not the "hot guy" they're focused on, it's how they look to their friends. They're young and testing out their skills of seduction (just like we do)!

Some young girls though aren't at all interested in the competition and they're the ones that are around 20 years old and they'll date old guys like me.    (I tease them over being "age fetishists").  In reality, they're looking for someone more sophisticated, stable and in control... they've dated boys but they think they're ready for a man... BUT if you're all those things there's little a 20 year old can offer a 38 yr old after the obvious "stuff".

I believe many Western Women in their mid 20's to 30ish will either become idealists (try to create a good relationship out of a bad connection, and get hurt repeatedly... "biologically, they're nurturers afterall") or they'll focus too much on career because they've been hurt and they don't believe they'll find a guy they can rely on.  I wish I could find compatible girls in this age range at home but they're few and far between!

Some women DO like "bad boys" but it's more true to say NO woman likes a wimp.  (Well, some highly dominant aggressive ones might but would we really refer to them as women anyway?)

30+ things change...  some become desperate to have kids and desperation in anyone is an ugly feature. Others are SO absorbed with career that they have left no space in their lives for a relationship and in my opinion have lost focus on LIFE.

I understand FSUW may also focus on career (as all 3 are that I'm meeting with during my trip).  All three though have expressed a desire for a family and children without sounding desperate.  They're successful girls with relatively comfortable lives, all aged between 27 and 31 and they're looking abroad because the good men are married and they say they haven't got "good options" locally.  Yes they could have relationships (who knows,...  they might be right now) but like us they're looking for something "different".

I've recently met a girl at home who's attractive (in my opinion) and relaxed and open about her desire for marriage and children - but they're rare!  If I'd met her before planning my trip I may not be meeting girls in FSU but as I'm doing with the UW I'll meet on my trip, I'm taking it one step at a time. There's no need to rush with any of the girls because if I rush my commitment phobia will emerge again!  

I don't blame just women for the current trend in our western societies but I have little interest in taking on ANOTHER project where I might enter a relationship, work to build trust and see the relationship fail 1, 2, 4 or 8 years down the track because of environmental or emotional issues.

There ARE attractive girls at home with their heads screwed on and that are available to us BUT they are few and far between.  Others have got a lot of issues.  Some are scared of relationships and react poorly while dating.  Some are (in my opinion) socially dysfunctional or just plain incompatible and therefore not attractive to me.  Some just haven't taken care of themselves and not just in reference to bodyshape. I find many girls at home don't have a sense of style that I appreciate.  My trip will open some new options for me but I have no idea where I'll end up.  I may end up settling down with someone at home or I may become a long standing member of RWD who has married and can offer reasonable advice to newbies.

What I WANT is a relationship where we make each other better people.

Time will only tell!

Kuna

Oops... I just read KenC's post and agree there is ANOTHER type of women...  as he explained about his ex-wife.  I'm sure you'll agree though Ken that some many western women HAVE been treated poorly by men and have acquired emotional scars over those experiences.  We can choose to blame the women for becoming involved with the wrong men in the beginning but I also think that men (generally) should also be aware of their brothers failings too.

[jinx13]

 I would agree with Rvrwind and I/O and say that Western men that visit the FSU who display class, manners and basic 'gentlemen' behavior are the minority, and guys who read these forums are the upper class of Western men. At least we care enough about this endeavor to try and learn something, to try and make a relationship work and not just "fly blind".

  I would have made far fewer mistakes my first time over if I had found this forum, but I also have to say I learned from my mistakes too, but I was always a gentlemen, but that comes more from my personal upbringing than anything else, momma taught me good!

 What should FSUW know about us?  That we are not Prince Charming on a white horse, we have faults too, but we are less likely to be alcoholics, to cheat, to be unemployed. The American way is that we work for what we have, you could say we are a nation of workaholics, almost to a fault in the minds of Europeans, and the FSU.

 Many Western men are a little 'spoiled' from growing up in a country with a high standard of living, so he might complain about having to go without electricity..gas...hot water, things that FSU women are accustomed to, we are not.

 Speaking of 'spoiled', FSU women should know....WE ARE NOT ALL RICH! Despite what they have seen on TV and movies, we don't all live like they did on Beverly Hills 90210, it was a TV show, not reality!    Having said that, we do have a lot more 'stuff', beautiful homes, nice cars, cool computers, cell phones, the latest electronic gadjets, etc.  Most of this stuff, the big stuff, is payed on CREDIT. We live in a credit society, which is something FSU women don't undertsand, and will never understand until they actually live here.

 ok, that's all I can think of for now,  oh yeah and sometimes Western men forget to take off their shoes when they come in the house! Give us a break on that one, please!