Jim the Agency scammer

[Vaughn]

Bruno wrote: "the speciality of FBI is US only..."

Not true. Although the FBI has no time for East-West relationship scam cases, they're present practically worldwide beginning in the 1990's. Not trying to start a United States - Belgium - France flareup again, Bruno, just making a small correction.

Vaughn

 

[jb]

The FBI and the CIA are everywhere.  The rest of the world should get used to it.  We WILL protect ourself.

[Kvinna]

Kvinna is the last person on this board whose word I would take or opinion I would value. She has several times made in-accurate statements and on at least one occassion a out and out lie.

In my opinion anything that Kvinna states should be considered highly suspect from her previous track record on the RWD.

 

very nice guy, so you decide to discuss my humble person. I didn't insist you value my opinion

I do my work you do yours. We have our audience and they think my opinion not so bad like yours, so what a problem? also I have noticed you inspite of your low opinion about myself always visit my site...

lol

anyway you are welcome

[Kevin]

Kvinna

 I have to agree with Jack. Your site has no credit because you do not investigate the agency you list and do not provide any supporting document to support the agency you have blacklisted.    How do you expect anyone to believe your site when you don't providing any documents to support your claims. 

I though it was a good ideal to have list of Male Scammers. But so far you've shown me that you are willing to blacklist people and agencies without doing any form of investigation or verification. 

You seem to complained in the past about blacklist sites that unfairly blacklist ladies. Yet today your site is doing the same thing you complained about..

You've lost my vote as a reliable source and web site.

Kevin

 

[Kvinna]

 

Kevin you can vote for anything you wish, as I told antidate was created not for americans, but for russian women who are fed up with WM's terrible treatment on dating services

we tried to estanlish a dialog with you, but you didn't want, I asked you and this guy jack for interview, but you didn't reply, now when the work is done you try to say something. Are you always later?

 

and by the way this thread http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/view_topic.php?id=342&forum_id=11 shows very well how you treat your ladies

[Kevin]

[user=184]Kvinna[/user]
You did not answer my PM you did not ask for my advice and the posting on Rwguide is a fight between a couple in Kherson that were both remove from my agency.  After the client translated a letter incorrectly on his own and a lady requested $5000 cash to resolve the conflict. This occurred outside of my agency control weeks after the couple had been engaged and left my agency.  Anytime a lady requires a men to pay her to get married I will remove her from my agency.  Anytime a client attacks a lady for a reason that isn't valid I will remove the client from my agency.  

Your site is designed for the RW and some of them might have been neglected by scam agencies.  But I do not see how your site is going to help the women By attacking all agencies and dating sites that have created successful marriage. :X

I do not understand why you have decided to attack my agency and other honest agencies that have created successful marriages with your site.  

Kevin

[BC]

Kevin,

Certainly don't want to meddle, but looking in from the outside maybe Kvinna just wants to see your and other sites more 'balanced'.  I took a quick peek at her requirements (to not be listed on her not recommended list) and they don't seem that unreasonable.

1. Site/ site of agency should provide the page in Russian.

Sure it's a pain in the butt to translate all the pages, but I'm sure women who want to list with you would like to read and fully what you say in general about them, and what you recommend your male clients.

2. Site/ site of agency should content the legal address and telephone numbers.

Should not be a problem.

3. As all these sites and the agencies with Russian women it must content the terms and conditions in Russian.

Why not just post blank contracts, terms and conditions you have for both men and women clients?

4. Site/ site of agency should content the man's catalogue and opportunity freely to brause it.

If I were a woman client of yours, I would probably be also interested in men's profiles and know a bit more about them before meeting, or be able to suggest a meeting with one that interests me.  I think I remember you mentioning that some of these are posted in your office, so why not a client only area on your website where your women clients can browse?

5. Site should have the convenient search system.

Most do anyway.

6. Site/agency should delete known sextourists, maniacs, scammer hunters and other pervert persons, which accting was complainted by the women.

Obviously.

7. Site or agency allow their clients to exchange the contact information.

I believe you do if both parties consent.

8. Site or agensy should allow the clients easy and without problems to delete their profiles and photos from all catalogues.

No problem here..

9. There should be the buttons "report abuse" in each letter, chat-rooms and private messenger.

Easy email buttons..

10. To not arrange the sextours in the FSU countries, thus is latent encouraging the prostitution.

If you don't do this then bez problem!

I think what Kvinna might be really looking for is that more agencies take a more balanced position where both men and women clients are treated equally as clients.

[Kvinna]

9. There should be the buttons "report abuse" in each letter, chat-rooms and private messenger.

Easy email buttons..

10. To not arrange the sextours in the FSU countries, thus is latent encouraging the prostitution.

If you don't do this then bez problem!

I think what Kvinna might be really looking for is that more agencies take a more balanced position where both men and women clients are treated equally as clients.

 

Thank BC, I meant just that

[Kevin]

BC 
 I had already posted a comment on RWG about her requirements I will post it here also.

I took a look at your requirements.

1. We do not allow ladies to join or send letters though our web site so there is no reason for us to write our site in Russia. All of the documents involving the ladies are in Russian and provided to them in the office where they must show up in person to join.  We also have a icon on the top left of our site. By clicking on this icon "altavista" our site is translated into not only Russian but other languages as well.

2. We meet this requirement.

3. Given to the ladies in the office in Russia when they show up in person. . Again we don't accept ladies application over the internet. The must sign the application in person at the same time we take current photographs and a copy of there passport.

4. Available on our site. But you must come in person to the office to write letters. This is part of our anti-scam policy.

5. We meet this requirement.

6. We meet this requirement.

7. We are not in the business of giving out the ladies contact information to anyone. The ladies must agree and release this information. It is available to all clients and ladies.

8. We meet this requirement.

9. We meet this requirement. My email address is published all over the site. The chat has a button for abuse and you can reach me via phone 24/7.  

10. We don't do tours.

Therefore we meet all of the requirement listed. The only justification I've been given why we are listed on the blacklist is because we remove a lady from our agency after she ask for $5000.00 cash to marry a client.  Otherwise there has been no justification.

[Kevin]

"All lady who join our agency photo will not be removed from the web site. We provide three types of listings. (Active, Removed ,Engage/married) Only with good reason will a lady photo be retired from the site. The reason for this is too allow other agency and client to be informed of the status of a lady. All photos taken by any staff member become the property of KG inc.

http://www.khersongirls.com/policies.htm

really cannot understand what they wanted to say"

I wanted to clarify this. When a lady gets engaged, married, blacklisted, remove or leaves our agency we have pages specific to each of these status.   For example when a lady get married we place her on our married page and notify other agencies in Kherson to remove her profile from their site. By maintaining these pages other agencies can also check on a status of a lady or see if a lady has a history of scamming on our blacklist page.

The main reason I started this was to prevent ladies from getting engaged on my site and continue their search on another site. Or being blacklisted by my agency and moving on to another agency to due the same.

We do honor all request to have their profile deleted completely from our site. Unless they were blacklisted for scamming a client.

This policy is to let the ladies know that if the scam one of our client everyone is going to know about it.  The same goes for the clients.  We also don't like other agencies stealing the photographs from out site.

[andrewfi]

I suggest that if you have clients using your site they should be able to read it in their language. You have suggested to me before now that your women are not products, but clients, when I had suggested the opposite. If you are suggesting that they should not be able to read what is being said about them specifically, or generally, in the promotional materials featuring their images, words and profiles then they are products and not clients. (at least in your eyes, in practical terms) I note that you suggest that your clients use a machine translator to read yoru site. Would you consider that to be apropriate for your male clients? Would you suggest that a machine translation of yoru clients letters was appropriate?

I think the answer would be in the negative. So why should most of yoru clients be treated with so little regard?

I am surprised that you do not offer a Russian or ukrainian version of your site, or at least summaries so that a woman can see what is going on and where. It is polite, instills confidence and is at the very least, good manners. You should do it. If your business can not stand the cost of doing business properly the you should be in a different business. If you are going to claim to take some kind of moral high ground then you should be exemplary otherwise you appear hypocrititical.

As to photographs, whilst I can understand that if you take a photograph of a person using your equipment and a woman agrees to your ownership of the image, that it is wrong to continue to use it in ANY form when she asks you not to do so. You may have a legal right, but again, it displays a culture and attitude that is not good. Women may agree, in advance, because they have to. If you claim that you only keep pictures up of blacklisted women, do you keep up just the ones who have been successfully prosecuted for a crime? Or do you also post pictures of women who have broken one of your arbitrary rules?

Is it even legal to maintain a public photographic record of women who have been tried, found guilty and punished, after the sentence has been carried out (or even before). Personally, I think that the whole issue of how you deal with your blacklist is self serving and morally very questionable. (if somewhat profitable!).

When I read responses like yours, Kevin, I can see how women can find even a business as noble and well meaning as yours probably is to be diststeful. It is not just about what you do, but how you do it. In so many ways, I see what you do as being biassed very much towards the interests of the men and your marketing. The women are very much second class citizens in your business. Perhaps you have spent too much time in Ukraine.

 

[Kvinna]

The main reason I started this was to prevent ladies from getting engaged on my site and continue their search on another site.

wow Kevin! whatever for? or we have to request to post photos of married and engaged men.  Being engaged I have all rights to continue my searches for a man anyway. A woman doesn't belong to any agency they are not your slaves

 

[andrewfi]

I agree with Kvinna. You may not like what a woman does, but it is not your place to make some kind of moral judgement on her behalf. She is a client, not a product (according to you). If she breaks a law, you have a legal duty to report her to the appropriate authorities. You do not have the right to cast aspersions upon a woman's character, in public.

Warn your male clients, in private, if you need to, this is sensible and appropriate, to do more is wrong. (unless the woman are less important than the men and you do not mind who knows it!)

Your name is not Solomon! It is Kevin, you are just an ordinary guy running a small business in Ukriane, you have no right to interfere with the lives of your clients.

[Frank]

I don't think any honest, sincere woman will have any problem with Kevin's policies.  I am suspect of those who raise a big stink about it.  Give it a rest!

[Kevin]

[user=156]andrewfin[/user]

Did you even look at my site before posting. Because I don't seem to have any place on my site that men are posting comments about the ladies. In fact the only thing written about the ladies is what they provide us on there profile sheet.  The rest of the site deals with coming to Kherson, rates for service and advice.  Can you be more specific on what item on my site is of interested to the ladies that they can not read with the online web site translation software?

I have taken some of these posting inconsideration and will post a Russian information page on my site for the ladies to read that is a copy of what they get when the come into my office. And I will include a few more pages of information about my goals and services.  No lady has ever ask for this in the past, but I do see a need for it. 

As far as legal right to photographs, Yes I have full legal right to every photograph taken by my staff in my office.  Do I keep photographs on my site when a lady request that they be removed.  The answer is normally No. The only photographs on my site that I have every maintain are the photographs of the ladies with criminal records which mean they  broke the law, committed a crime and was found guilty by the Ukraine legals system not just by me in Kherson for scamming. Otherwise I honor all request to remove any photographs from my site. And if you took the time too look over my site you will find many photographs removed per request of the ladies or clients. Just look at the engagement pages for examples.

Your comment that I care more about the clients then the ladies is the worst insult you could ever make. This show a total lack of any form of investigation on my agency. If you just took the time to talk to any of the ladies in my agency or my staff you will see that I have a history of removing clients more often then I do ladies.  I fully treat both the ladies and Men as equals and money is the last factor that I would consider.    Every lady has the right to join my agency and every lady has the right to leave my agency.

Kvinna
"Being engaged I have all rights to continue my searches for a man anyway"   This is one of the biggest problems I see today with RW.  Engagement is a commitment and every lady who doesn't believe this shouldn't be seeking a husband.   This is the same statement I got from the owner of khersonbrides when I ask that they remove an engaged lady from there site. The belief that a women has the right to accept an engagement from a men and financial support at the same time she believe she has the right to continue to date and seek another man for marriage is a trait that has no place in my agency.  Such as statement like this from you shows your full disrespect for marriage in a western culture.  No wonder you don't like honest agencies who would blacklist a lady for trying this.

[BC]

Kevin,

Great to see the 'gap' seems not so wide with good prospects of movement in good directions.

Regarding your last paragraph directed at Kvinna, I can see your point, however it is widely known that many WM also view the term 'engagement' quite loosely, with plans of using the 90 day K1 'window' as a trial period (mainly to 'test' the women) before deciding on whether to marry or not.

I would think if a woman does not request her profile/pics removed from your and other sites after being 'engaged', there may be some reservations on her part which of course would be of interest to her 'fiancee?'.  Forcing her to delete her profiles does not seem too serve any constructive purpose other than an attempt to 'lock' her in with the current fiancee, which seems quite contrary to the ultimate interests of your male client. Whether you agree to keep her as a client afterwards or not is of course your decision for sites you control directly, but should not hinder her from listing elsewhere.

Have you had any experiences where a couple began the K1 process but did not finish for whatever reason? It would seem unreasonable to 'ban' the woman client and continue to try and locate a bride for the male client.. or?  

[andrewfi]

Kevin, yes I have seen your site. I was not referring to comments about women by men, but what is written about your female clients by you in profiles, by you and your staff in the general material, in fact the whole site.

It is interesting and instructive that you yourself refer to the men as clients, but not the women. BOTH are your clients, but your inability to see that instructs your attitudes. I am sure that you are among the better agencies, but even so, it is clear that there is a gap between what you offer to men and your attitudes to the majority of your clients. The women are your clients just as much as the men are, it is just that one side is paying the bills and not the other.

You have no right to remove a woman for being of bad character simply because she has a relationship with more than one guy, even if she is 'engaged'. This is not your business. I can understand the business motivation for doing so but do not get all preachy about the manner in which you defame somebody for having broken your commercial rules. Tell your male client if you wish, remover her from your lists if you choose, but do not make further comment.

Your insistence upon interefering in the choices of a majority of your clients is not good, but as you do not agree, you can not even see the issues, kinda like explaining red to a colour blind guy. Of course women choose to use you, you may well be the best, but is being the best of a bad lot a good thing? I suggest not...

 

[OhioGuyRob]

The main reason I started this was to prevent ladies from getting engaged on my site and continue their search on another site.

wow Kevin! whatever for? or we have to request to post photos of married and engaged men.  Being engaged I have all rights to continue my searches for a man anyway. A woman doesn't belong to any agency they are not your slaves

[/quote]

[OhioGuyRob]

Kevin, yes I have seen your site. I was not referring to comments about women by men, but what is written about your female clients by you in profiles, by you and your staff in the general material, in fact the whole site.

It is interesting and instructive that you yourself refer to the men as clients, but not the women. BOTH are your clients, but your inability to see that instructs your attitudes. I am sure that you are among the better agencies, but even so, it is clear that there is a gap between what you offer to men and your attitudes to the majority of your clients. The women are your clients just as much as the men are, it is just that one side is paying the bills and not the other.

You have no right to remove a woman for being of bad character simply because she has a relationship with more than one guy, even if she is 'engaged'. This is not your business. I can understand the business motivation for doing so but do not get all preachy about the manner in which you defame somebody for having broken your commercial rules. Tell your male client if you wish, remover her from your lists if you choose, but do not make further comment.

Your insistence upon interefering in the choices of a majority of your clients is not good, but as you do not agree, you can not even see the issues, kinda like explaining red to a colour blind guy. Of course women choose to use you, you may well be the best, but is being the best of a bad lot a good thing? I suggest not...

 

Let me preface my statements with the following....I've never been to Kherson, never met Kevin  nor have I used any of his services.  What I know about him is from a few emails we have exchanged and only what I see on his site.  I doubt he even recalls our brief email conversations.  I found his advice to be helpful and very much appreciated. 

The problem I have with you and kvinna's position that you seem to be HIGHLY confused as to who target audience kevin is marketing to.  It is CLEARLY NOT women or men for that matter who are native to the FSU. He provides a means for them to have the page translated to Russian.   That is more than, in my opinion is even necessary.

You say he has no right.... How can you possibly justify your position?  Its his business, his web site. I would NEVER in a million years do business with you Andrew.  You  show in your post that you are totally lacking any  moral fiber.  If you think it is acceptable to have a woman in your database who is engaged to one man and at the same time, dating  other men then you are not someone who is worth trusting taking any advice from let alone a single penny.  Not only does he have every right, he as a MORAL obligation to protect the real clientele and ultimately his business!!!! 

It is considerate that Kevin views the women in his database as clarinet but the hard cold truth is that the client is the one that pays for his services and advice.  That is clearly the men who use his companies services.  He, as a good business man has an obligation to protect them from women he knows are dishonest and  unprincipled. 

I would be absolutely LIVID if I discovered that an agency knew a woman I was dating (god forbid I be engaged) to a woman who is betrothed to another man.  In fact I would DEMAND a refund of ALL monies I tendered for meeting, interpretation with ANY woman I met through such an agency. There are ABSOLUTELY no grounds for allowing this to occur with the knowledge of the agency.   Merely taking the profile off the web site only aids and abet women who are dishonoring ever honest girl out there looking for an honest man.  

As a business owner for 12 years now I can tell you that I think Kevin seems to have a solid business model that is OBVIOUSLY working.  It is tailored to meet the market demands and needs of his clientele. 
 

[Leslie]

Rob,

Your comment  -

"I would be absolutely LIVID if I discovered that an agency knew a woman I was dating (god forbid I be engaged) to a woman who is betrothed to another man.  In fact I would DEMAND a refund of ALL monies I tendered for meeting, interpretation with ANY woman I met through such an agency."

Is so completely stupid I cannot believe you said it. 

No agency can guarentee the fidelity of a woman.  She is a person not a toaster. 

If you actually think that this is possible and you would be entitled to a refund then you need to book yourself into emergency psychotherepy!!

Engagement is a custom of western culture.  It is NOT followed in Russia or Ukraine.  Give a woman a 2 carat sparkler and in it is just a gift. Most Ukraine women would prefer something useful.......

Kvinna is conducting a "shelling" program against her competitors on the internet boards. Her motivations are obvious and her methods are laughably crude.  It is a measure of the respect afforded to FSU women on the boards that she has been allowed to continue this program for so long.  If this persona was male it would have been banished a long time ago.

Her current targets are the handful of good, honest agencies - Khersongirls, First Dream and Elenas Models are amongst them.  Quite honestly these businesses are generating so much internet verbage by defending themselves from this "Be'Bika" that she is achieving her purpose. 

Turn off the publicity.  Ignore.

 

 

[Kvinna]

Kvinna is conducting a "shelling" program against her competitors on the internet boards. Her motivations are obvious and her methods are laughably crude.  It is a measure of the respect afforded to FSU women on the boards that she has been allowed to continue this program for so long.  If this persona was male it would have been banished a long time ago.

Her current targets are the handful of good, honest agencies - Khersongirls, First Dream and Elenas Models are amongst them.  Quite honestly these businesses are generating so much internet verbage by defending themselves from this "Be'Bika" that she is achieving her purpose. 

Turn off the publicity.  Ignore.

 

May I ask you: who are my competitors? I have no dating site or agency and i am not going to run this

I have only antidate, and none of you will deal with such issue as problems of RW in dating process, because they dodn't use to pay for such services. I don't earn on it any cent. So what, maybe you want to do this job? maybe you should daily listen to those complaints and those sad stories?

[jb]

Yeah, Andrew....

There does seem to me to be a strong conflict in being engaged, while continuing to date.  I'm gonna come down on Kevin's side on this one.  I fear these sorts of things happen on an all too frequent basis.  We all know for a fact that most agencies will continue to offer the addresses of good looking ladies for sale simply because they may be a hot money maker long after she's off the market.  IIRC, Scanna was one of the worst offenders of this, I remember seeing once they had sold a particular girl's address over 5,000 times, (she looked hot).  Needless to say, she hadn't been actually available to receive, or reply to a letter for months.  If things ran true to form, she had probably married one of the first guys who showed up at her town, and the other $75,000 that Scanna pocketed off her photo and profile was a scam in the 1st degree.  Of course, Scanna later merged with AFA and we all know their reputation for shady business tactics.

I do agree that the women who use an agency are as much a client as the men are, but the agency should draw a line somewhere.  An agency owner who knowingly continues to introduce an affianced woman to new marriage prospects is as guilty of scamming as the woman is.

[OhioGuyRob]

Rob,

Your comment  -

"I would be absolutely LIVID if I discovered that an agency knew a woman I was dating (god forbid I be engaged) to a woman who is betrothed to another man.  In fact I would DEMAND a refund of ALL monies I tendered for meeting, interpretation with ANY woman I met through such an agency."

Is so completely stupid I cannot believe you said it. 

 

 

Why dont you re-read that sentence.... I am talking about an agency offering to set up meetings with engaged women!  It is the responsibility of the agency to have at least a basic understanding of the western culture as it relates to dating and engagement.   I do not know of any western men who would think that it would be acceptable for his fiancee to go on dates, correspond with, sleep with other men.  I would venture to say that in the vast majority of cases, that would be a relationship ender on the spot!  

So yes, I would be livid if I discovered the agency KNEW that a girl they were setting me up to meet was engaged to be married!

Next time instead of  infering Im stupid try making sure you properly read what was written... that way YOU wont look so stupid.

[Kvinna]

I am talking about an agency offering to set up meetings with engaged women!  It is the responsibility of the agency to have at least a basic understanding of the western culture as it relates to dating and engagement.  

 

LOL

How can agency offer to set up meeting with engaged women? You are not going to e-mail her at first to know her better and at least to ask her if she wants to meet you in person?

or you think this is excort service when women must meet you whether she wants this or not?

[jb]

you think this is ESCORT service when women must meet you whether she wants this or not?

Unfortunately, kvinna, that's exactly the way many of the MOB agencies operate, a man shows up, views the catalog, picks out a few women that interest him, and they charge him an introduction fee for each woman he asks to meet. Sometimes as much as $25-50 per introduction. That fee is often shared with the woman if she agrees to meet him. It's a way for an unscrupulous woman to shag a free meal and put a few bucks in her pocket at the same time.  If a woman has accepted another man's marriage proposal, then she is engaged to be married, and she is off the market.  The marriage agency should be aware of her engaged status and then properly, a) remove her profile from the actively seeking a partner section of the cataloge, and  b) inform the male client that the lady is unavailable, thus saving him the time and expense of being introduced to somebody's fiancee.

There are rules to this game, kivinna, even if you don't like them.