Russian women are not for everyone!

[Gator]

Turbo wrote,

I/O wrote,
How many guys here are now married and happy as a result of going through this process with only 2 or 3 weeks per year to devote exclusively to it?  Lets have the numbers and we can see how it cuts up.

My guess would be 80%

If I had to guess I would say T/G is close for all AM-RW marriages, not just members of RWD and not just the "happy" marriages.  I also guess that the divorce rate is high for all AM-RW marriages (over 50% within a short period).


There are no data so we must guess.   One "scientific study" did address this issue directly, and the preliminary results showed a 90+% divorce rate for marriages with minimal time together in Russia.  Yet, those results are debatable.

I feel safe to say that there are a lot of men who did not take the time to know his woman and who divorced in two years or less.  Perhaps his woman had a hidden agenda.  Perhaps his woman was sincere about marriage and the man was deficient in the areas listed in this thread.   Perhaps the two are both good people yet simply were not compatible.

Enough guessing.  FACT:  The best way to discover this is to spend much time with each other.  Time will reveal compatibility (personalities, goals, values, etc.).  Time will reveal feasibility (time and money required to help her adjust).  Time will also reveal through introspection whether the man is ready.

I will still agree that a man with limited time may be able to make this work.  However, there are caveats.  Namely, he must be strong in all other areas listed here, particularly with good instincts about women.

[I/O]

Case in point would be ITDaddy who started the thread " New Guy needs help--RussianUkraine babes for real?".   He seemed to me to be a decent guy with his head screwed on pretty straight.  He stated he made $35-40K yearly, had a kid he was raising, didn't have the time to invest, and wanted to know if he had a shot, (or deserved a shot) at a RW/UW hottie.  He was given good information, swallowed the bitter pill like a man, and seemingly has pulled the plug.  Young, hot, and beautiful RWs are prolly not in his foreseeable future.  I just wish a few others could be as honest with themselves as ITDaddy is.

Funny that guy should be mentioned.  I was only thinking exactly the same thing today and you know the other thing I noticed about him, he was a bit slow to catch that he was going to cop it in a few areas, but when he did cop it, he copped it sweet and pulled his act together.  Note the change in his writing presentation and a few other things. 

I gotta admit to thinking that if the time comes where he does think he has a realistic shot, he is the type of guy that just might make it because he has an ability to roll with the punches and come up smarter and wiser with his sense of humour intact.

The guys who chuck a wobbly when they read something that cuts a bit close to the bone must be planning on finding a Russian woman who is much more silent than mine is.  That's actually one of the things I like so much about her, if she thinks I am wrong about something, she will tell it to me the way it is and back it up.  Even better is that if we don't agree she'll stand her ground with me until we sort it out rather than running off sulking.

Bruno I for one don't happen to think your salary or 6 weeks a years is going to prevent you, but yes you are quite correct, it is a very different ball game based in Europe.  I've had this discussion about a million times on other forums.  You are closer in geography, in culture, in history and in most Russian women's mind more accessable to home if she needs to vist family etc.  It is a very different picture based in Europe and your points are well enough made.

The other point I want to make about the short available vacation time is this, yes of course you can have 3 X 1 week trips per year, and you spend the better part of 3 days travelling each time, so you maybe get 4 or 5 days vacation on the ground together.  That's exactly what it becomes, vacation time.  We are all in a very different mode during a short excitable vacation than we are when we spend extended periods of time together. 

Again, I would lean back to the married guys to state their case, but if my progress this far is any indication, a few short weeks each year would never be enough to develop the kind of solid, compliant understanding that I think is necessary to base a marriage on.

Some advice for the unmarried guys.  Don't get all testy when the married guys give us a belting about something on which we don't really know.  The smart money is to challenge them to justify a point.  Don't just accept it because they said so, but press them to justify it and then you'll get a lot more info than you hoped for.  From what I've seen here, the married guys can generally back up what they are saying.  If they can't and they start jolting off, then dig right in because they need to be kept on their toes also to get the best out of them.

I/O 

[Gator]

BillyB’s little clip from American Idol earlier in this thread is a good analogy.  JB has long been the RWD equivalent of Simon from American Idol.  KenC will also play this part too.   

Simon made be curt and harsh, yet he knows music and he knows talent when he sees it.  Granted, Simon is part of the “act” that makes the American Idol program popular, so some of it may be contrived.  However, is Simon wrong just because his critiques are not compassionate?

Many of the newbies pondering RW are no more suited for this endeavor than Red in BillyB’s clip and other humiliated talentless souls are for a singing career.  You know who you are.  So do not kid yourself.  Do not deny the facts.


This prompts me to suggest another for the long list of negative qualities.  If a man is prone to taking trips up the river “denial”, he should stay away from RW.  Red flags may be waving, and if you are not pragmatic and a realist, you will miss them.

And while I am suggesting negative qualities, I add a clarification to one stated earlier.  It is okay to be coming out of a divorce provided one has gone through the proper introspection and knows not only what will make him happy but also understands what went wrong, what he contributed to the mess, how and why it will be different the next time,  and what type of personality is compatible with his.   Usually this takes time; however, in a long and somewhat amicable breakup and divorce, one can do the necessary “looking within” and emerge as enlightened as T/G did.

[IAmZon]

It took me longer than it should have, but I finally figured out JB.  He applies his knowledge and experience liberally to help others.  He also hates AM who fantasize, who look for JUST beauty and/or youth ... who are grossly unrealistic, who where rose colored glasses!

JB wrote: "Case in point would be ITDaddy who started the thread " New Guy needs help--RussianUkraine babes for real?".   He seemed to me to be a decent guy with his head screwed on pretty straight.  He stated he made $35-40K yearly, had a kid he was raising, didn't have the time to invest, and wanted to know if he had a shot, (or deserved a shot) at a RW/UW hottie.  He was given good information, swallowed the bitter pill like a man, and seemingly has pulled the plug.  Young, hot, and beautiful RWs are prolly not in his foreseeable future.

I just wish a few others could be as honest with themselves as ITDaddy is."

Very good.  I agree.

But what about the converse of the question?  Who has (or deserves) a shot at a RW/UW hottie?  (Other than the "best and brightest" RM/UM, of course)

[jb]

Rivardco,

I have to admit, I took that phrase, and paraphrased, from one of Viking's post,,,, he said, "everyone deserves a shot", or words to that effect, when questioned closely about how much time one must, or is willing, to invest in travel to the FSU. 

Don't get me wrong, I like Viking, he is making a noble effort to do this right,,, he is however, somewhat disadvantaged by his employment circumstance, i.e., only 2-3 weeks annual vacation time.  He certainly makes up for that in the number of airfares he buys, so we know he's able to meet the financial side of the equation.  Of course, with limited time on the ground, he is going to be hampered by lack of "face-to-face" time before he ever finds "the one".  Once that all important issue is resolved, finding "the one", I'm sure he will go into the relationship building phase with equal dedication with lots of emails and phone time as well as periodic visits.

However, I just thought it ironic he would say, "everyone deserves a shot", which this thread has clearly revealed is not the case.

[I/O]

But what about the converse of the question?  Who has (or deserves) a shot at a RW/UW hottie?  (Other than the "best and brightest" RM/UM, of course)

I'll stick my neck out to be chopped off and take a shot at some of the criteria I think is necessary.  BTW I don't think I deserve my fiance', but by gee I am thankful I was lucky enough to get a shot at it.

Some necessary attributes.

Stable lifestyle/income/job/business.
Ability to observe, learn, understand and accept new subjects, culture and personalities.
Patience.
Time.
Financial resources.
Organisational skills.
Positive outlook.
Sense of humour.
Ability to roll with the punches.
Awareness of ducumentation procedures and or frustrations.
Writing skills.
Self awareness.

These are just a few, and I guess Rivcardo, you are hoping to develop something of a checklist, thus I don't profess to know it all and in fact I don't know much, but these points I see as necessary and hopefully can be added to.  I am a bit reluctant about this because it is the opposite of the thread title, but it is relevant.

I/O
 

[viking]

Russian women are not for everyone. BUT.....Everyone deserves a shot.

I need to clarify something here, because this thought requires more careful explanation. I want to use an analogy. I hope this works. (Note; JB this is not aimed at you)

 Any child born in America ‘has a shot of being President”. Clearly 99.99999% of the population will not even get close. Wrong education, wrong social circles, wrong connections, lack of interest or desire, wrong mentality, the list is endless. Maybe some will become the mayor of a small town. Or the governor of a state. Or maybe some type of public servant. But President?  No. Only one in a few hundred million will achieve this status. But every one born here does have the opportunity, however remote, at taking ‘the shot’.

Every single guy (not marital status but numerically) ‘has a shot” at an RW. American, Aussie, English, Belgium, Swedish, etc… Clearly 99.9% will not even come close. Income, desire, time, mentality, and MANY, but not every  criteria ever posted here are useful, but not required, to be successful. Some will bow out very early on. Some will go over and get shot down and never heard from again. Some will not listen and try and try and make the same mistakes over and over, and some will find the right avenue that works for them and be blessed. Any guy who has the determination, attitude, aptitude (which encompasses quite a bit), has a shot. He has a chance.

For anyone one this board to tell someone here is a list of 100 things you ‘should have’ or you ‘must have’ and by the way you are missing one or two and go take a hike, get lost, is snobbish, condescending, rude and just plain disrespectful. Telling someone that it is an expensive search and you need money to make it happen is being truthful. But if someone says, this is all I have to work with, my income is limited but all the other traits are there, would we not be better in suggesting alternative ways of making something work for him? “Hey buddy, you might freeze your butt off in February but the flights are less expensive then”. “Hey buddy, speak to Svetlana, she can get you a really cheap flat, you might have to heat water on the stove but its only $30 a night”. Get the picture? Give some options? Let him make his own decisions? One guy here, saw the light, and made the decision it’s not going to work and packed it in. Smart guy.

Short personal story. I once worked for American Express. Because of my position I was invited to a very high level meeting regarding fraud control. Many ideas were advanced and I locked onto one of them. I was told that others more senior than me were unsuccessful in implementing this approach. I insisted it could be done. With some trepidation, I was given 12 months and a small budget. One year later I presented a business plan. Spend $10 million now, save 10 times that much in 4 years. It has been many years now since I left. The program is still in effect, the savings in billions. Could I have been setting myself up for failure?  Yes, of course. But I had studied the pros and cons and took a CALCULATED risk. I was determined. It was a goal I wanted to achieve. I had to overcome obstacles I never knew existed. I took it one day at a time, one week at a time.

The reason for this short digress is that many guys who have ‘what it takes’ but not in the same vein as others perceive, should not be given short shrift because of one or two ‘might be necessary’ elements are not present at the moment. Life has a way of changing the status quo. From mental to physical to financial.

I read enough to understand that some posters are a bit more diplomatic than others. I know some people can be a bit testy when advice is given and then refused or not even considered. But for some one to make their own rules on how something is ‘supposed’ to work, because of their own personal experience, and then demand that they be used by all others, that this IS the way it is, shows no flexibility, who cannot think out of the box, and is snotty about it as well, well…let me be diplomatic here. Screw you.

[jb]

Viking,

Your point is well made, but please remember one thing, opinion not based on experience is called supposition, or in the worst case,,, fantasy.  Pick your poison carefully.

[Turboguy]

Having done a few things in my life that were totally impossible, in some cases that did not have a chance in a million of succeeding I agree with you Viking.  If someone wants to do something bad enough they can overcome situations that are not conducive to success.   If they want it bad enough they can even do the impossible.   List all the good and bad qualities and most who don't fit will not succeed but some will despite the things they need to overcome.

Fantasy has little chance of success.  Determination can do wonders.

[Michelangelo]

"everyone deserves a shot", which this thread has clearly revealed is not the case.

Hmmm....Do you realize we are not sending our finest to the FSU?  When I was getting to know Vik, one of the first things she asked me was about American Women (AW).  I told her they were great--attractive, intelligent, and more.

She shared that most guys had told her the opposite--that AW were mostly fat and stupid. Now she is in the US with me, and is amazed how hot and attractive AW are. Of course we are in North Texas in a affluent part of town, so what she is seeing may not be typical.

My point?  My sense is that the majority of the guys who go to the FSU looking for a woman have failed at home.  That's why they try the FSU.  

But guess what?  FSU girls are harder to get along with that AW.  Hence, the high divorce rate Gator has talked about.

Just my two cents worth...

[Michelangelo]

And Viking, please understand, my last post was NOT about you, but about AM in general who go to the FSU.

[Photo Guy]

(For those of you who value 'truth' above authoritarian attitude)
Viking was RIGHT ON TARGET when he wrote:

For anyone one this board to tell someone here is a list of 100 things you ‘should have’ or you ‘must have’ and by the way you are missing one or two and go take a hike, get lost, is snobbish, condescending, rude and just plain disrespectful. Telling someone that it is an expensive search and you need money to make it happen is being truthful.

[jinx13]

 Viking, Great post!    

 We can all generalize and say oh you can't do this with 3 weeks vacation, a low salary, etc. but it CAN be done if the guy has the type of determination that you seem to display.

 I understand we are trying to let newbies know what to expect, it's good to give them the cold hard facts, but nothing is black and white. A school teacher making $35,000 a year has the right to try and find some happiness for himself just as much as the Engineer making $100,000.

 Case in point, Jinx (me) and Michelangelo

 I am a small business owner with a limited income, to tell the truth did a lot of things on the cheap side in the FSU because I don't have the money to throw around. The good thing is my vacation time is flexible, but still limited.

 I'm not sure what Michelangelo does for a living, but I'm guessing he makes a fair income. I have always enjoyed reading his trip reports..Barcelona..Paris, etc. He has made many trips and obviously can afford many things I could not. He also spent a month in Ukraine, a nice luxury.

 I compare myself to him because reading his recent posts is like looking in a mirror at whats going on with Nataly and I. He met Vik, I met Nataly, we are both happy, and living this adventure that is Russian women. Ok, he is engaged, i am not yet (personal choice) but we are both living with a beautiful women from Ukraine, somehow we did it, but on opposite scales as far as income and vacation time.

 To quote a recent movie "The Pursuit of Happyness"  "Don't ever let somebody tell you, that you CAN'T do something"  Ok, I've heard that quote before that movie, but whatever, it was a great film.    The point is, if you have a dream, you are a confident man with his head on straight, then follow your dream, but be aware of the risks and expenses, but don't forget about the reward in the end, it's all worth it.

[viking]

JB and Michelanglo

I have no delusions of grandeur. After my previous attempts I am firmly on terra firma. Live and learn. I was married to one of the most hard headed AW's one could imagine. And for quite some time. A hard headed RW is not going to be anything new in this respect. Different? yes. But not new. For the patience and understanding I showed I should be nominated for sainthood. I do not lack for female companionship here. And a good AW is not off the table. But having tasted the RW, I do wish to explore it more fully as I feel they have more to offer me at this point in my life.

And Michelanglo, you may not remember but months ago you hit me between the eyes, point blank range, on another subject. Got me teed off to no end. But after regaining my composure, I realized what you were saying to me. Thanks.

[Bruno]

Hmmm....Do you realize we are not sending our finest to the FSU?

Hmmm... Who are the finest... the simple man who work hard for a little income, with a few days holiday year... or the rich who profit from the simple worker and who have a easy life...

It seem to me that some here wish to reserve the "hunting" of RW only to the "high" class people... never forget that a lot of RW are thinking like it is show on the picture below picture... specialy now that the new capitalism have allow only a few to become very rich and that a lot have not minimum for a decent life...

Seem that segregation due to class level is something who always exist in USA... Do you really think that a woman ( RW or AW ) will be more happy because you have a big wallet... it is the people from high class who act like knight and think that they save the poor RW, who control her once married, who use her like a home domestic at day and sex slave at night, show her to relative like a trophy wife... The majority of RW marry simple Russian worker, and they are very happy... and they will not exchange her simple worker husband for a rich American or a old retired one who have time for dating outside his own country...

Let me remember you that USA was not created by snob people... but by poor immigrant who have suffert and reach success by work... so, i agree with Viking, everybody have a chance... simply some will need to produce more "work" that other for reach the same goal...

You are poor, you have not a lot of holidays... no problem... use a few years for spare some money... once ready, start your quest... once find the right one, take some non pay holiday for be with your fiancee, for marry her, for help her during the first months in your country... yes, it is possible, simply use the time needed to be ready before start the process...

In any case, you will never find a price tag on the "happiness"... you cannot buy "happiness", you need to work hard for reach it... if you have not a lot of money, use your brain...

Viking wrote :

“Hey buddy, speak to Svetlana, she can get you a really cheap flat, you might have to heat water on the stove but its only $30 a night”

  i am not enough rich for $30 night... i always hire a cheap flat localy ( no internet use ), around 200$ month ( with hot water  )... i eat, drink, go out in the same place that the local people... i never use agency, translator, etc... one month stay is around 1000$ ( don't count airfare )...

On a other side, not be rich have some advantage, specialy when you inform directly the RW's about it... poor people cannot send several thousand $$$ for help the mother dying for the 5 time... trade-up girls have not interest in you... same with gold-digger... only two type of women can have interest in you : the GCG and these who love you !!!

[Michelangelo]

Hmmm... Who are the finest... the simple man who work hard for a little income, with a few days holiday year... or the rich who profit from the simple worker and who have a easy life...

You totally misread my post, Bruno.  I was saying that the men from the USA who often to to the USA  are men who are maladjusted at home.  It has nothing to do with level of income.  Of course I'm not talking about our fine men at RWD, but rather the others who go to the FSU to pick out a "puppy."

[jb]

Viking,

One thing I failed to mention that is even more critical... That is finding a good and sincere RW willing to cooperate in the marriage experiment with you.  Without that componet of the equation present, even the very best qualified AM will fail.

[jb]

Oh, and while we are being so honest with each other,,, Texas Boar, you are one of those whom I think will fail in this quest.  Frankly you fail to pass muster on the financial test.  (high school teacher making about $37K per year, I know the pay scale). You also fail on the appearence test, (too many tattos), you also fail on the religious test, and you fail on the "afford to travel" extensively test.  In reading your posts over the past few months, you also fail in the "what am I looking for" test. 

There seems to be a good deal of fantasy involved in your thinking.  That's not a bad thing, every man needs a dream,,, but I think an RW is not in your future.

[Turboguy]

OK, now that we have decided that should we create a committee to break the news to them?

Sounds like someone just appointed himself chairman.

[LEGAL]

Maybe this post is off topic but it is interesting and informative and can help to understand why Russian women are not for everyone.
Sorry for English translation.

Olga

An Russian woman
Fragment books <Ironical psychology or Psychologists are women> (M. Williams, 2006)
Talking about is a modern way rossianki-Russian women held very soon after the release of my book and the well-known American scholar, Professor at the University of California (USA), psychoanalyst, author of the book "The servile soul of Russia"

 Beauty is a form of dependence

OM (Olga Makhovskaya) :  There are sustainable in the view of Russia that the ideal woman must be adored, admiration, almost worship. It must be rosy, gift worry about it, decorate and help every minute. IDEAL borrowed from the aristocratic culture. Image Bohemia coquette is a bourgeois envy and imitation. In emerged as is Ellohcka Ludoedochka ("man-eater").External signs, wore down and the ashes, affected, skittish and wanton as champagne not available, but scattered,  ready to ran away with her lover withot parental blessing. Since the beginning of the 20th century milestone is short skirts, shirt, and then makes fans, and re-shirt. Lucy expensive decoration intuitively back to the whole dear and brilliant. According to a well-known historian fashion, my friend Sasha Vasiliev, the Russians XII before the revolution was a special breed (bone white-blue blood), unsurpassed style, excellent knowledge of foreign languages, that contributed to the success of the international podium. He believes that now is not going to tatters. But Russian women still valued by the business model and the international marriage market. The beauty, external gloss remains pertinent to Russia. Tatiana Dronina, and Renata Litvinova, beautiful and mad-genius of Russian womanhood.

D.R.-L. : Russian women to me is the women who devote themselves entirely to men, fathers, sons, and the most to their husbands and lovers. In this sense, he has no equal. Sometimes, I even envy Russian men. But seriously, I would not want to marry a Russian. This sacrifice is masochism. I still need "rovnya" at least equal intellectual partner. I was shocked when, during his first visit to Leningrad in the 70th, witnessed the as a young man entered punched in the face by his girlfriend, and no one said, indeed, it is not caused outrage. I just have to warn that all my many publications which, in one way or another, highlighting the different mentality of Russian women more Russians "slavyanok" is only synthesis of the actual material that has been in my hands. Many, I would even say, the vast majority of women from Russia, with whom I professionally cooperated does not suffer from masochism , and feel no joy of humiliation, do not consider violence as a way of. But all Russian classical literature, Russian folklore, as well as sociological studies indicate dependence sad Russian women, the subordinate, humiliation, affronted situation.  As sociologist wrote Larissa Kuznetsova of Russian women in the 80th, <"privychka" habit client firms back in its centuries psychology "psihologiei">. (The woman habit to work very hard and cringe has accumulated Russian woman psychology)

OM : You talk about the old tradition, which could not have been changed. For example, the American sociologist Ada Baskina, believes that the Soviet Empowerment of women would envy American. But gravity, that befell our women in the post-together with the opening of borders, and numerous international beauty competitions with a club car joke. Seeing the hard life lived their mothers, our girls (some of them) have to find happiness in marriage, ideal men they seemed rich Russians (Russian man at the different FMCG), and almost all foreigners. Selection is based on the contrary : <huje budet> not - It will not be worse . Beauty may result in a tragedy : it is surrounded by male arrogance and women's scorn and envy. During Soviet times, a situation relative credibility women While the price of the external parity with men - huge overburdening when needed and keep the home and at work. Concealed competition between a man and a woman as a result of privatization, was resolved in favour of men. This is one of the social consequences of economic reforms. Men have additional arguments in the form of large quantities of money. As you know, women have been largely excluded from the property. They have to take all the rest, that it was popular in the market.
American failed to pass the

D.R.-L. : After several generations of the struggle for equality, modern American bases its relationship with the men on the basis of their rights, access to economic resources, and is not afraid to make demands man. Она была бы оскорблена откровенно сексистской поговоркой:  «Курица — не птица, баба — не человек».She would be offended frankly sexist saying : <kurica not ptica, woman is not chelovek>- Hen is not bird, woman is not person.  In the jargon analyst, saying that not only pointed out the negligence of an adult woman but also marks a phase of the so-called Pre-Edipe complex where the child to the world highly vein-<mathi-rebenak> - mother - child. If at this stage of the mother is not her husband, or his departure, or simply indifferent or tight in relation to his wife, the relationship with his mother is just devastating for the child. All women's emotions and feelings through are sublimating relationship with the child and lead to anomalous result. If a child is a boy, then he can walk away from the mother, her husband in words lot swear, drink smoke, beating his wife or girlfriend. In short, if the father psychologically or physically absent, the result of excessive mother love can be son-woman-hater. Anthropologists such as family matriarchy. We are watching the same phenomenon in the black ghettos. The traditional Russia describe as patriarchy, but it is only half-truth .  Contact his side- matriarchy Russian improving level. Patriarchate, the dominance of men in Russia instigated matriarchy, and the influence of women in private life.

OM : You rightly say the comparability of male and female authority in Russia, but about black ghettos is too. In black communities, men valued only as a physical force, the slaves on the plantations because rocks. В этом смысле они «отсутствовали» в семье.In this sense, they were absent <otsuttovali> in the family. Although the statistics show that our men after divorce hardly ever (90-96%) is not involved in the upbringing of children, and the Americans, Drama relations between men and women in Russia is historically one. .As a result of systematic war, we are constantly losing men physically. The most monstrous in this sense was Great Patriotic War. Rely on the men do not have to need to raise children. Boys and more desirable, and more under wardship. The tragedy of Soviet women who won the war but raised its head and despots Some were saying Irina Grekova in a well-known and we and the west lead <korabl vdov> - Ship of widows. But the echo of the war came after generation, when life was easier, and the efforts already under way and mothers and schools, and Children summer camps were designed to support boys. Infantile men <muzhya-podkablucniki> appeared next to the traditional men-despot. Normal social and psychological sense, a man is not in the majority in Russia.  The choice of fast growing and successful Russian woman (rossianki) is small, and I would say today tragic.

Three types of Russian women

D.R.-L. : Causes of adversity Russian women much deeper.  And Orthodox and Russian classical literature, and continued poverty assisted to develop into a moral  masochism of Russian women. The Russian Orthodox Church is a patriarchal institution, which supports masochism submissiveness Russian women. But then again, this is only half-truth. Next, throughout history the Russian Orthodox Church, a thriving cult of Our Lady. .Icons of the Virgin Mary with child revered in Russia more than icons adult Christ. It is precisely correspond Pre-Edipe (before-edip) range. I spent a lot of time in Russian churches, and saw revered icon of the Mother of God. Who remembers why the Russian State Emblem St. George, but everybody knows Vladimirskaya Mother of God, Kazan Mother of God. St. George defends Russians, and Mother of God keeps. Vladimirskaya Mother of God, the official protector Russia. Just two year old children perceive their mother, as the only defender.

OM : The world famous Investigator of Cultures Yuri Lotman provided three types of traditional Russian women. The first type - woman- heroine, protector, patroness - Agakura.  The cult of Our Lady, which has disproportionate
 meaningful place in the orthodox, encourages mothers to sacrifice and to mobilize others her weak children. These women were among our grandmothers and mothers, but not among young people. The second type, on Lothman - woman-bitch, demoniacal woman, the one that destroys the generally accepted norms and conduct scenario, repudiates all expectations of men, and little care of the children.  Our classes and pseudo-Bohemian, is consistent with the type.  Girls raised in glamour magazines seek to manipulate the environment in their favour. The third type is the unfortunate woman.  Her plight is tolerated and resign. Whatever happens in the life of a woman, she always complains about her life not waiting for nothing good, although it is rewarded for its patience. This is very bad today, they were not running either for themselves or for their children, and are willing to admit that they simply do not lucky in life.

 Woman- heroine and unfortunate woman is a derivative Orthodox peasant, patriarchal culture. These types of women vary only by the strength of psychological constitution, but in fact they are women-sacrifice.  Unlike woman-bitch, they focus on the family, the education of children. Traditional morality, or in Russia or in the west, does not provide answers to the question of how to live a modern woman. You criticize and evaluate women's Orthodox ideal from the point of view of the Protestant ethic, the prevailing perception of gender equality, feminist approaches. Orthodox family, as the psychologist Vladimir Druginin says, is an explosive mixture of pagan and Orthodox installations and recalls psychological or physical struggle between the man and woman. Husband, father owned power formal authority. Wife, mother delegated responsibility. Women have enormous informal authority, not only in the family but also in the workplace, as a gray cardinals, trade unionists, indispensable professionals. I can not possibly take and a Protestant ideal model.  The family built on the principles of parity, it is very fragile : it is a matter of debate, the partners are trying to behave symmetrical manner, substitute another, and as a result not very each other need. Will you deny that the divorce rate in America is very high, and the divorce is not considered a tragedy.

There is a well-known truth in a secret desire Russian woman - to be protected by strong man. There is no masochism.  In a normal family, as   ethnographer  of genius Margaret Mead reminded us, power and responsibility assigned to physical force and social recognition spouses. That is the main responsibility for the family should be the father, man. A woman and a man joined in the effort to educate children, the meaning of family reunions, but his successes and failures attributed to a man, not a woman, as is customary in the Orthodox tradition, not all equal, that is not learned who, as the Protestant tradition. Rossianka - Russian women never knew the rules, they are trying to live in today's imaginary rules, trying on the images Bohemia beauty, trying to live as traditional woman-mother or  reading feminist slogans.

[TexasBoar]

Oh, and while we are being so honest with each other,,, Texas Boar, you are one of those whom I think will fail in this quest.  Frankly you fail to pass muster on the financial test.  (high school teacher making about $37K per year, I know the pay scale). You also fail on the appearence test, (too many tattos), you also fail on the religious test, and you fail on the "afford to travel" extensively test.  In reading your posts over the past few months, you also fail in the "what am I looking for" test. 

There seems to be a good deal of fantasy involved in your thinking.  That's not a bad thing, every man needs a dream,,, but I think an RW is not in your future.

I do a little better than that financially, but not a LOT better.  However, I have a disproportionate amount of disposable income, all things considered, since I don't go in for debt load.  Certainly enough to make a trip or two a year, if I spend wisely . . . and spend less on cigars and single malt Scotch and books and . . . well, you get the idea. What I don't have is good financial habits, and despite my gut instinct that you're basically a miserable bastard, I have taken to heart your recommendation that I should have about 10K set aside, and have begun reorganizing my habits accordingly.  

I'm sure the tattoos are a setback in your hoity-toity vision of things, and I don't imagine someone from your wife's social set would find them attractive. But you may recall . . . since you and KenC seem so good at digging up old posts . . . that I mentioned my concern in that regard in my intro post to this board, along with the religion issue.  Though it might surprise you to discover that I actually have heathen contacts in Russia, and my faith is not unknown there . . .  

As for any fantasy component to what I'm looking for . . . well, I'm getting a clearer picture through this forum than you might suspect.  But we all have a "type" we respond to, don't we? Kindness, gentleness, intelligence and humor are the first four items on my list . . . somehow, I don't think those qualities are any less common there than here.

*shrug*

I suppose if I'd realized there was going to be a test and you were going to be grading it, I'd have studied harder and brown-nosed more.  But then, I was always one to say what I felt instead of what the professor wanted to hear.

~Boar

[jb]

that I mentioned my concern in that regard in my intro post to this board, along with the religion issue.  Though it might surprise you to discover that I actually have heathen contacts in Russia, and my faith is not unknown there . . .  Roll Eyes

I'm not so good at digging up old posts, I'm only good at remembering recently stated facts.  Your religion thingy is going to be a tough nut to crack, if there is a cult that believes the way you do in Russia, then you should prolly go for any girl who is willing to swing with you.

Just guessing,,, that's going to be harder than you think.  99% of RW are probably agnostic, or Orthodox, not heathern, or anti-God, or anti-church,,,, just easy going, semi-religious, and looking for a better way through life.  If you push heathernism, you may get laughed at a lot.  Just a guess.

[I/O]

What an abstract direction this thread has taken over the last few hours.  Let's get back to the suitability or otherwise of people for this pursuit.  Oh no..!!  That's too politically incorrect to suggest that someone may not have what it takes to make it.  Everyone has a chance.

Guys don't worry if you don't have time and you don't have any money.  Don't worry if you have the social skills of a bull elephant, don't worry if you don't know which side of Russia Moscow is on or which side of Russia Vladivostock is on.  It is all just fine and dandy.  

These poor dumb Russian women are so desparate to get out and they will be so grateful for anything that looks remotely like a Western Man that they'll be lined up at the customs gate to greet you on arrival.....................NOT......!!!!

I honestly don't care much who goes and who doesn't go, because I have been around enough to work out how to dodge the idiots who go over there and bring themselves and their countries into disrepute.  

I have spent countless hours talking to Russian people, both men and women, defending particularly the Americans, trying to convince them that not all Westerners are fat and stupid.  They come back at me time and again with a few simple truths.  Some of them are these, The Americans don't know anything about this country and they don't even know which are the major cities, they don't really care and are not even interested,  The Americans are lazy and don't want to travel anywhere away from the major Airports, The Americans often don't have as much money or available time as they try to tell us.

Sorry guys, but thats the type of thing I have tried to defend you guys and my own countrymen from on the ground, but it is becoming less and less defencible.

The lists of attributes which have been thrown up are not absolute in any way shape of form, but please oh please take them on board as a tool to use to your advantage.  Bruno got it wrong and then he got it right by saying if you can't measure up in some area, do something about it, that is, if you are short on for money, do something about earning some extra or learn to manage what you have a little better and so on.  He assumed that I for one equate class to money and he is totally wrong in this area.  Personal class has nothing to do with financial measure.

These types of threads are designed to give the freshman and idea of the types of things he will need in order to survive and perhaps succeed in this pursuit.  Nobody is saying each and every attribute that is listed is a "Must Have".  Use it as a guide and if it is cutting too close to the bone, then decide if it is applicable to you or if you can rectify that area.  Don't toss out facts simply because you don't like them.  

Some people seem to think my attitude is hard and elitist.  Well let me give you a small sample of what you will come up against with a real Russian woman.

During her interview in the embassy, mine was asked this question.  "If you could change something about Mat, what would that be"?  She answered, "He is too soft and kind towards other people and I would like that he was tougher with others".  Catch the point?  If you dont like the firm words here, you are going down fast when you meet your Russian lovely.

I/O

[Jumper]

I/O  ,thats funny.
(my wife initially thought i was too "good" and too tactful to people as well )


I agree o nmone very nig criteria-

 if guys get too twisted up about things posted here, then RW are probably not the best idea.

honestly though, most guys i see here, take a lot of flack, either  with a good sense of humor ,  or take the smack laid down
(sometimes deservedly)   with a grain of salt

thats diffinantly  a postive abilty that will help them thru this...


ohh and one more thing
while  i agree with you.
 

Writing skills

makes me LOTFLMAO!
 

Good thing i was clever and charming enough to overcome that one! 

[I/O]

ohh and one more thing
while  i agree with you.
  

makes me LOTFLMAO! ;)Good thing i was clever and charming enough to overcome that one! 

AJ Yes, I did think about the "Writing skills" one a bit before I threw it into the list.  Most importantly, I'm glad you got a giggle out of it.  But, hey...you aughta see my writing with a pen in hand.  I thank God every day for word processors.  Mine commented to me some time back when she saw me signing cheques, "Mat, why your writing not beautiful"? Well laugh, that would have been the understatement of the century.  I can't even read my own writing.

More seriously though, it is important for the freshman to undersatnd that many of the girls will use e-translators which react badly to spelling and other issues.  ITdaddy copped a bit of a serve in his intro thread about it and I was very impressed with the way he tidied his writing up in a few posts.  He copped the advice with good humour and took the necessary action.  All credit for that.

I/O