pretrip report to ukraine, 2005

[Rvrwind]

Sure good people can help up to a point. Using a reliable agency for travel arrangements etc. is a must if you don't know your way around but the idea that any agency can find you a wife and you will live happily ever after with minimal effort on your part IS A FANTASY

Couldn't agree more Les. Actually I think we agree more than disagree.

The one thing I decided right from the get go is that I will not advertise myself as a "Marriage Agency". We are an "Introduction Agency" and no more. We will introduce you to the ladies, the rest is up to you.

I also agree that the marketing tactics, at least in my view, border on fraud. They promise you will meet your future wife, they promise you will get a 20 year old hot body. But those of us that have BTDT know that rarely do either of these things happen. Sure I can introduce you to plenty of 20 year old hot bods but can I guarantee any of them will marry you, of course not, can I guarantee you will even find a wife in my agency, of course not. All I can do is introduce you, once that is done I figure I'm pretty much out of the picture unless you require other services that I offer.

This has always been a contentious issue with me & I had the same argument with Woody. They are not "Marriage Agencies", no one can guarantee a marriage except the two involved in the relationship.

I also agree that especially once two people have met they should distance themselves from the agency. They should develop their relationship on a one to one basis, but, I also submit that the agency should be there to help in case they should need it. Too many of these agencies, once they get your money could care less what happens later. The honest agencies I know of are there even years later to help & see how things are going. I know LTP was for me until the new office manager took a unfounded dislike to me.

I am currently helping a lady in the US that went over on a K1 through BH. When she contacted him for help he merely told her it wasn't his problem, how typical. She is not my client & neither was the guy but I am doing what I can to get her home because the guy turned into a real a-hole. He is such a jerk he won't even give her money to buy a plane ticket home, Long story for another thread. I am getting nothing out of it but I don't care, I enjoy helping people & if I can help others to find happiness as I did with Bruce & V well, that is all the payment I really need. If I could do this for free, I would just because I love it so much, but unfortunately I can't.

As far as letter writing goes, I think in most cases you are correct, it is a waste of time but for some it is a nessessary part of the process. Lets say it is there & available for those who require it & for those who don't, get off your ass, get on a plane & come meet my ladies, LOL.

RVR

Canadian Cowboy[/size][/font]

[jb]

Richard,

I think you are on the right path.  An honest *Intoduction* service is about the best a man can hope for.  You can make some money on translations and other services, only you can determine if it's enough, but as the old cowboy wisdom says, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".

One note on language barriers.  I've said this before until I'm blue in the face and I still get contradictions. IMHO no marriage can survive on lust and good looks alone for very long.  Sooner or later you are going to have to be able to talk to each other.  Whether she learns English or he learns Russian is not a matter for discussion, there simply must be a common language where both parties are able to draw complex thought pictures with words and have those words be understood by the spouse.  Any man who marries a woman he can't talk to, except through an external translation device (be it a laptop computer or another person fluent in both languages), is a first class fool.  There's a snowball's chance in hell of that marriage making it past the point where they both wake up one day and discover they've married someone they don't really know, or like.  Yet we see this mistake made, time and time again.

Back in the days when I was a member of *the other* board I used to marvel at the number of horror stories we read there.  Virtually every one of those storys was rooted in the fact that the married couple didn't know squat about what they were getting into.  Being married to any person is hard enough, throw a language and cultural barrier into the mix and you have a recipe for immediate disaster.

My recommendations won't be heard but I'll make them anyway.  If you insist on being a *One Week Wonder*, at least do it with a woman who already speaks English.  Otherwise be prepared to wait until she and you can communicate on your own before you make the big commitment.

Pick your poison, boys, it's only your life.  Never mind you are possibly going to screw up someone else beyond repair.

[TigerPaws]

One note on language barriers. I've said this before until I'm blue in the face and I still get contradictions. IMHO no marriage can survive on lust and good looks alone for very long. Sooner or later you are going to have to be able to talk to each other. Whether she learns English or he learns Russian is not a matter for discussion, there simply must be a common language where both parties are able to draw complex thought pictures with words and have those words be understood by the spouse. Any man who marries a woman he can't talk to, except through an external translation device (be it a laptop computer or another person fluent in both languages), is a first class fool. There's a snowball's chance in hell of that marriage making it past the point where they both wake up one day and discover they've married someone they don't really know, or like. Yet we see this mistake made, time and time again.

Back in the days when I was a member of *the other* board I used to marvel at the number of horror stories we read there. Virtually every one of those storys was rooted in the fact that the married couple didn't know squat about what they were getting into. Being married to any person is hard enough, throw a language and cultural barrier into the mix and you have a recipe for immediate disaster.

My recommendations won't be heard but I'll make them anyway. If you insist on being a *One Week Wonder*, at least do it with a woman who already speaks English. Otherwise be prepared to wait until she and you can communicate on your own before you make the big commitment.

jb,

 I will agree with you on one point about the guys who try to be a *One Week Wonder* it rarely works out although when I lived in California we knew 2 of these couples who are are doing just fine 3 years later, but in principal I generally agree with you.

 As for the language issue that all depends on the man and his paitence, if he has the time to spend with his lady and the ability to help her as she learns English then from much personal experience I know things will be better for the couple. That said if the man is a workaholic spending 14 to 16 hours a day six days a week away from his bride then without question their relationship is in serious doubt.

[jb]

Tigerpaws wrote:

As for the language issue that all depends on the man[/i] and his paitence

That's just not true and you know it, when discussing a *One Week Wonder*, we are not talking about men,  we are talking about a poor woman who arrives in the USA without a clue.  She's helpless.  Without someone to guide and direct her she cannot do anything on her own if she doesn't have English skills.  She made a poor choice to marry without knowing what was in store for her.  She expects Beverly Hills and instead she gets Amarillo,TX, (for example)

God help you if you think this is all about men[/b]. The issue is how to communicate between spouses and what they expect from each other.  Without good communication there can be no meeting of the minds.

[jb]

Bear in mind, I'm more an advocate for the Russian woman in these situations than I'm ready to feel sorry for a man who blunders into a sob story.  He knew better and didn't take time to get squared away, she, OTOH, was expecting to get to the promised land where all was milk and honey.

Trust me, there's no milk and honey land.  Not even in Amarillo.

[TigerPaws]

That's just not true and you know it, when discussing a *One Week Wonder*, we are not talking about men, we are talking about a poor woman who arrives in the USA without a clue. She's helpless. Without someone to guide and direct her she cannot do anything on her own if she doesn't have English skills. She made a poor choice to marry without knowing what was in store for her. She expects Beverly Hills and instead she gets Amarillo,TX, (for example)

God help you if you think this is all about men[/b]. The issue is how to communicate between spouses and what they expect from each other. Without good communication there can be no meeting of the minds.

 Here again jb I disagree with you, my wife was totally dependent on me for well over a year as was the other 2 gentleman's wifes I spoke of earlier and of us did very well and these are but a few of may more examples I personally know about.

 Now do not get me wrong I strongly disagree with the *One Week Wonder* and given the oppertunity I counsel men to spend as much time as possible with the woman they believe is the right one for them. In general I suggest a minumum of 2 trips of at least a couple of weeks each and one more for 10 to 14 days somewhere outside of her home country (Spain, Egypt, Jamaica or Turkey) before starting the K1 process. Of course during this time the girl should be learning as much English as possible, still there will be large communication gaps and I place the burden on the man to make the teansition as easy as possible.

[jb]

I'm sorry.......

You have said you are a General Officer (retired),,,frankly, based on your posts,,, I just can't believe that.

I've never met a flag rank officer who can't spell. Your spelling is atrocious, I think you have tried to put one over on us.  I smell a troll.  Get your sh*t together and come back to see us when you've figured out who and what you are.

[TigerPaws]

I'm sorry.......

You have said you are a General Officer (retired),,,frankly, based on your posts,,, I just can't believe that.

I've never met a flag rank officer who can't spell. Your spelling is atrocious, I think you have tried to put one over on us. I smell a troll. Get your sh*t together and come back to see us when you've figured out who and what you are.

jb,

 I refuse to reply to such an attack especially from someone who uses foul language to express themselves against someone.

 My points are well founded and my approach to finding a lady from the FSU were and are very sucessful. You do not have to agree or disagree as there is no one way of handling such things, there is room for almost everyone except the vulgar.

[BC]

Hey, sorry to step in.. actually enjoying the discourse and don't intend to intervene but this is anono's thread so maybe a new one to "carry on!"?

The other thread I couldn't care less about.

[Turboguy]

To me it is not that logical to assume that a "ONE WEEK WONDER" is automatically going to be some shiftless, inconsiderate slob who won't give his lady the time of day.    I can't see what the one has to do with the other. 

I think you have people who are very laid back and would love to spend time helping their lady learn English and adapt to her new life and you have people who just have a very impatient nature and are not into that type of thing.   I can't see that the length of time they knew each other before they started the K-1 process has anything to do with it.

I too am a one week wonder, or more precisly a 5 day wonder.  On my last trip where I spent a few weeks with my gal I think one of the things I enjoyed most was working with her and a textbook and helping her with her English.    When she does get over here I think the last thing she will feel is abandoned.

[tim 360]

I happen to agree with all of you.  And that is because different people will have varying results.  Some,  because of the man.  Some, because of the woman.  Usually,  because of each of them.  Some,  will do well just from randomness and causality.  And,  some will just be lucky.  Some,  will be not too lucky too:(((   The question is: "are you really feeling lucky?" and how long will that last.  Not a good idea to enter anything believing in one's luck...but it can happen,  I am sure.  One can have formulated the very best strategy in the world,  but once his boots hit the ground...things change.  The best made plans of mice and men?

Some prudent guidelines are probably a very good idea.  But,  mileage is going to vary and what works for one guy may not work for anyone else. 

[jb]

I too am a one week wonder, or more precisly a 5 day wonder.

(sigh)
 

[Photo Guy]

Tiger Paws,
I guess I'm sort of headed onto the same boat as Tom and Julia.
Good story. It's encouraging in as far as her lack of English goes. But, there's good chemistry or not and sometimes it is evident in the first hour or first week.  Doug

[anono]

hey jb, so what type with the P&W's? my ticket is only good for SEL but i sit right seat in a commander with dash something or others that are the largest it can handle. we fly jet speed.

i didn't mention that contribution to my hearing loss but it sure helped make the situation worse. good thing now is if i don't like listening to someone babble, i can easily "tune" them out...lol

while i was thinking tver had maybe even more pretty girls than kiev, last night walking on khreshatick brought me back to reality. simply because it's alarger city and a higher concentration of people on the street, i saw far more babes last night in two-three hours than i did in three days in tver. i am sure tver has a huge number of good looking ladies because i saw only a part of it and i am sure some days they could rival kiev, but dang..my neck still hurts.

i had two days left in kiev (now one, it's saturday morning). had a numbe to a lady i have been trying to meet since march 2004. some agency sends me a number which i call all day (busy) i go to lonely russian agency (or something like that) and sit and go through their catalogs. i end up charming the two major ladies there for about three hours with stories of my adventures here. i asked who the knockout was that was their eariler and sure enough, owns the agency, is a model as evidenced from the things in the office and of course married. they asked me what type lady i liked and i pointed to her...

so i pick out maybe five ladies (i am getting real selective, more so that i thought i was because i am now used to the disappointments and pick out the best of the best). the onle lady helping me is good, she tells me who looks like her photo and who does not. i see the profile of the lady i have been trying to meet for a year, explain what's been happening..they cannot contact her either. after writing to the agency where i obtained her number, this morning i get a reply "oh, the agency that handles her made a mistake in the number they transposed one digit. cost me not only yesterday but today as well because (thanks to jack and HIS help,) she was contacted and apparently too busy today to meet. says she can meet me monday. really? she will come to the USA and meet me? cool!

so today is basically wasted too, had i been able to get in touch with her earlier, i might have been able to meet her. thanks to the agency mistake, not gonna happen.

my people here were not able (or just didn't want to deal with it) to find me another flat so they are taking me to borispol hotel for my last day. i hope they realise they are just checking me in and i'm riding back with them. i am not going to sit in a hotel ona beautifil saturday in kiev. i'm riding back and going to walk khresatick and "nema noga ponglisky" (butchered phonetic) to any babe walking slow enough to catch up with. (i'll kae sure i have some chewing gum jack, the yello wriglies). and maybe go by the agency and see if they can find anyone home (doubt it..too nice a day).

then i head back sunday, i'm going to ask even if i doubt it'll work, for an upgrade to first class..afterall, it'll be my birthday....lol

i'll return here in 3-4 weeks, maybe i'll start a new thread...

regarding spelling..lol  i was 2nd best in my class (they gave her the easier word...lol) if i mis-spell here, it's a typo or i'm not looking or care because of the situation, i.e. keyboard, time..things like that...  so please forgive me jb!

it's been a good month.. 

[Rvrwind]

I agree jb that communication is nessessary, to any relationship. I however don't feel it is nessessary from the getgo. It can be worked on later & develope as it should & as a natural process of getting to know each other.

What it has to do with being a "One Week Wonder" I have no idea. I certainly wasn't one & I know those who are & those arn't, some in both camps have made it, some have failed. The strongest bond in any relationship is the two people in that relationship & how much they want to be together.

I often councell the ladies & ask them why they don't learn English & improve thier chances of meeting a western man. I more often than not get the same reply, chances are not good that they will ever meet a western man! They know the odds & even when I explain that good English skills would improve thier odds they still don't see it. A few have but those few are older women 35-45 that most guys won't ever write to anyway, which is a crying shame because these ladies are puting in a lot of effort & in my opinion would make great wives. Unfortunately most guys are not interested in women over 35, they still have that "arm candy fantasy" & until they get taken to the cleaners or some other jolt back to reality that isn't going to change.

Many of them say they can't afford it, okay, I'll bite, I give them an address where they can learn for free. It isn't the best but they can learn a few basic English skills & over time it improves. A lot say they havn't the time & I counter with, then what makes you think you have the time to devote to a long distance relationship. I am hoping I can convince at least a few more to take the initiative to learn English. A lot of them took English in school & but for lack of practice would do quit well.

I have no idea where I was headed with this but just wanted to point out that many of these women feel their chances of meeting a WM are very slim so why put in a whole lot of effort for a pipe dream. That being said, when they do meet a man & see that perhaps there is a good shot, you would be surprised how fast they learn, my wife was a perfect example!

RVR

Canadian Cowboy

[Bruce]

Turbo - I do not know how you say you are a 5 day wonder when you have re-visited your girl at least one more time prior to having her come here on a K-1 visa.  You are at least a one trip / correspond for quite a while / second trip / continue to correspond for quite a while - plus somewhere in there initiate a K-1 visa which you still have time to get out of.  To me a one week wonder is someone who gets off the plane, meets a girl, does a K-1 and the next time he sees her is at the airport when she arrives here in the USA.

Anno - good to know things are getting hot on Kreshatik.  I guess you could just hang out in front of the McDonald's on Kreshatik and watch the hotties go by - and play policeman on a highway stopping the prettiest car from the crowd for a ticket......

 

[anono]

<sup>jack's main driver and interpreter/guide picked my up at 11.  everything has been taken care of perfectly. we ran an errand (i bring back a few things you can only find here). the driver will keep my things, i was dropped off at khresatick and when i want to go to the borispol hotel for the night, all i gotta do is call. perfect.

went to chato and had an omlet, put a lot of $$ on my kievstar chip in anticipation of coming back in may. this way i will be able to travel around ukraine and have a lot of grivna on my chip  and one less thing to deal with when i get back.

walked up to st. michaels square and to the agency. they are calling a few of the ladies i chose trying to find one not working or still at home on a beautiful day. lady here remembers me from prior emails and a telephone conversation some months or weeks earlier. points to a few of the names and says this is a fine lady and so on. they are letting me use their computer to check email and here i am.

i'm set to simply enjoy a great day, meeting a lady or two, maybe not. at any rate, they will set things up for my return.

anyone coming here in may through september should be aware that eurovision is going to be here and yuschenko lifted visa requirements for europeans. there are going to be a lot of europeans here 1 may to 1 september. i am working on securing my flat for two months now so i will not have to deal with that when i return.

i am making plans to return asap, and hit the road to go to the cities where i have ladies waiting to meet me. i am going to try and be as efficient as possible, meet as many as possible. if i meet a good prospect, i am going to keep moving and tell her i will come back in a week or so. most any lady will not refuse an invite to kiev. i'll be set here. i like having a flat, a "base" to leave some of my things and have a place to come back to w/o the hassle of finding a new flat. this period of time will be difficult in that regard as i explained above.

i wish i did not have to go back to the usa but i have a few things i simply cannot neglect for much longer. once they are out of the way, i will be able to enjoy another two month stay. i love this city! i will also be traveling east, then south and back up to kiev for the remaining time after my road trip.

i've met a few nice ladies, "o" in moscow and the terp in tver. a couple i might see again just for a second look, depending on what happens until i get there.

i continue to use jack braggs logistical support and will be writing him with a list of cities i will be visiting so he can give me the contacts he has in each city. i have yet to encounter anyone less than perfectly helpful in his network of contacts. i do not know how he managed to develop this network but he has the bases covered just about anywhere one wants to go. if he does not have a direct contact, he knows which agency to contact for help. i think only once has he had to tell me "robert, you're on your own" in one city and i forget where because i haven't made it there yet. i am sure it was a small city of the regular path with few men going there. in those cases i just print out the agency information i find on the web.

richard, i am glad to see your input here and i highly recommend anyone going to tver to contact richard. he is honest, as he said, he likes helping people and i am sure he will do whatever he is able to do to help anyone. i get the feeling he is a bit like me in that he does not suffer fools very easily so, try and not be a fool  :-)

i scanned the one week wonder posts and all i can say is, if you meet a lady there is nothing better than being able to come back HERE (to her city if possible) and SPEND TIME together. as much as possible. i spent three months with my last lady (after spending two months with her prior) and it was during that last three month stretch that i realized we were not meant for each other. some guys have said, listen to that little voice in the back of your head. this is very good advice. do not try and make something happen that should not. i don't care how good her butt looks or how good her personality is, if you feel it ain't right, it ain't right. simple as that. i learned a lot from everything i have experienced and do not consider anything a big mistake. i know much better now what i am looking for and i think i will find it. i felt this way when i first thought i was going to be here for three months and i still feel this way. this little trip back home is just a short inconvenience. i wish i could stay because this is the perfect time of year to be here. the ladies are coming out in droves since the weather broke and it's a new season.

i know within two days of being home i will already be ready to come back.

a quick side story. i have my usa cell phone turned on, usually leave it at my flat. cingular has a roaming agreement with kievstar. i noticed i had a missed call last night. i did not recognize the number. i called the number, told the woman who answered that i am returning a call on my caller ID. she hands it to a younger sounding woman, i explain i am returning a call on my cell phone, can you please tell me what area code 573 is? in a smart aleck tone of voice, i am asked, what area code are you calling from followed by a snide chuckle. i hung up. i am so used to being treated with civility here, i was already getting pissed off. i spent about 45 minutes trying to get online from my flat. ukr.net must be having problems because i was not able to connect. i was going to do a "reverse number" search. unable to do so, i called the number again. i politely explained i am half way around the world, i am just doing the polite thing, which is returning a call made to me on my cell phone. i did not ask anyone for a name, just the area i was calling. i then said instead, i get a smartass reply. this beach launches into me. telling me what an "a-hole" i am, that i should know who i am calling before making the call..she goes into a tirade, calling me names, telling me what an a-hole i am and so on.. i simply said "you are a beach" and hung up.

i do not think that would ever happen here. i am so used to the civilty and basic respect most people show one another here that i cannot believe a ukrainian woman would tell a polite person making the call i made an a-hole and launch into a name calling tirade.

i hope no AW is foolish enough to get in my way while i am home. i do not want to be put into a possible possition where i am going to feel like punching the daylights out of some beach. i would never do it, i just want to avoid the feeling.

AW are simply invisable to me. i just hope they stay out of my way. they are wasting precious oxygen. if it were not illegal, it would be fun hunting them down for sport and save these natural resources for the rest of us.

i simply loathe AW.

it's nice day out..i better stop now and simply enjoy the rest of the day with these fine ukrainian ladies.

at least they will be civil to me.</sup>

[anono]

bruce, i'll be sure to frisk them for "weapons"  :-)

[anono]

i was going to post this in the agency section by i think it's appropriate to my TR. the agency so graciously letting me sit here and type (next to a real cutie btw) is called "amelie" www.amelie-agency.com and "daisy" www.daisybride.com or www.alonelyrussianbride.com just up from st. michaels church/square on bolshaya zhitomirskaya 8b

maybe they named it after that french film

they are a part of the angelica network. beats being a part of anastasia

[Turboguy]

Turbo - I do not know how you say you are a 5 day wonder when you have re-visited your girl at least one more time prior to having her come here on a K-1 visa.  You are at least a one trip / correspond for quite a while / second trip / continue to correspond for quite a while - plus somewhere in there initiate a K-1 visa which you still have time to get out of.  To me a one week wonder is someone who gets off the plane, meets a girl, does a K-1 and the next time he sees her is at the airport when she arrives here in the USA.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Bruce.   Having become a one week wonder for the first time I have to say I can see the pitfalls and do think it is probably better to not rush into things.

I think a lot of one week wonders fall in love with the first gal they meet.   I have made 10 or 12 trips and met many women before.   My orginal plans were to not do the fiancee thingy till my second trip which was going to be longer.   Yes, you are right.  I just came back from spending two weeks with her.  I am going back for another visit in 6 weeks and will be back for the last visit when she has her interview which now looks like sometime between late May and late June.    I felt if the situation changed I had time to back out.

When I made my first trip I felt she could have a lot of bad qualities that I had not seen and still been the most wonderful gal I had ever met.   On my second trip I have to say I did find some of those.   On her behalf I think she has a very bad case of nerves about leaving her family and friends and going to the other side of the world where they speak a language she hardly knows (and a language the idiot English teacher she had told her she would be years learning)    

After I left to come home she spent two days crying because she felt she had not treated me well and was afraid she had lost me.   What she really would like is for me to move there but that does not appeal to me.    She really did not treat me that bad but there was a difference in the way she acted from my first visit and the heistations were  very visible.   She is still a million times better than any Amercian woman I have ever met.  

 

[anono]

turbo, i have said the same thing before. many guys come over here and "fall in love" with the first cutie that gives them the time of day because most likely she is far better than any AW back home. (see my post above, almost anything here is better than AW back home).

i have the luxury of time. i am not rich but my business makes JUST enough to make this possible. i go home nearly broke and usually refinance my house to pull this off. i have this don't care what it takes attitude because i think this the most important opus of my life and that's saying a lot if you knew what kind of life i lead.

being self employed gives me the time, having good help running my business makes it possible to spend so much time away. i had to learn to "delegate" my work some time back, i was used to doing everything myself. i am a near perfectionist in my work and felt i had to do everything, becoming burnt out made giving the work to others a lot easier.

i just hope there is a little money built up so i can rob my business bank account and not rely on my dwindling savings from my last refinancing. like i said, whatever it takes.

having this time gives me the luxury to be as sure as possible if i find and to keep looking if i do not find.

i could live over here as long as it was part-time and probably in kiev. maybe somewhere on the black sea if the girl i find likes nature and smaller cities. i'd head home during the winter  :-)

[Turboguy]

It is nice you have the luxury of spending that much time there.  I too have spent a lot of time.   I believe I am at 6 trips in the past 12 months.   It does make a hit on the old bank account.   A couple of those were "romance tours" which are not the cheapest way to go.   Another trip was 6 days with a scammer that cost me more than the romance trip.   ($ 2200.00 in 6 days) not counting hotel and air.  Sure am glad that gal is gone. 

My business too, runs well without me.   Right now I have worked in my business about 2 weeks all year.  I do need to catch up a bit.   You sound like you are having a great time and I hope you find the gal you are looking for.   I think I was starting to think I was hopeless at one point in time.   I hope I am past the searching stage.  It was always fun, but it is nice to be coming down the streach.

[anono]

hi turbo..  i do not have much to say about tours because i have not been on one of the typical tours. i did go on one of jack bragg's party road trips. i have a hard time calling it a tour but it is in that sense of the word. the big difference is how he conducts his tours as opposed to the others. (i feel confident talking about this knowing i am not going to be attacked by one of the moderators like i was back at the "other" board, i.e. cameragurl).

jack hand picks the guys best he can. i have a friend going with him this spring, a neighbor kid that grew up two houses down. if i did not think he would be well taken care of and have a great time, i would counsel him against it. indeed, i have encouraged him. this particular guy has a real hottie who he has been writing to and talking on the phone. he also has a few others in the wings. my bet is, once he sees what is over here and if this girl or one of the others is not exactly what he thinks they will be, he will be back looking again someday soon. he's a great guy, comes from a good family like mine, tall, good looking and good personality. i reminded him not to fall in love with a photograph even though they have been writing and talking. i do think it is possible to meet the right girl right of the strating line if you are extremely lucky. i also reminded him it comes down to chemistry and meeting in person. he thanked me for grounding him.

i just spent an hour or so talking to a guy from new yourk who just met his 19yr old hottie from kherson. he flew to kiev, she came up from kherson to meet him. they are staying in rooms next to each other at the hotel. i gave him jack;s number and told him next time let jack set you up in a flat. use his logistical support network if yu come back and want to go to kherson.  from looking at his lady and spending a couple hours with them, i think he found a sincere lady. they "met" on the internet. he would have a hard time doing better. if she wasn't 19 and they do not hit it off, i think i'd be looking to try and meet her...lol  if it works, it is just a good example of lucking out first trip. he has been here once before for only a couple weeks but this is his first time meeting this lady.

i have to run because my driver and friend rostick are meeting me to show me a flat i might be renting when i return. then i go to borispol. i'd rather spend the bulk of the evening on khresatick and i just night but this is my ride to borispol otherwise. i do not mind that much because i'll be back soon. i would just walk around looking. if i saw someone i want to appraoch, i would but hey, they will be here when i get back.

i want to thank everyone who has contributed to my TR. it's been fun, it has been a good trip but like patton says, all good things must come to an end. i'm just glad it's temporary..  :-)

:dude:

[anono]

it ain't over until those fat tires squeal....

i took the kiev-new york aerosvit vv131 flight home. sat next to a ukrainian guy. he smelled like he must have taken the train the night before and maybe had time to kill at the airport.. he's fidgity, moving around. i like the aisle seat so he had the window seat.

while i'm thinking how am i going to get used to this, he asks to get up to go to the tiolet and in gestures and broken english suggests we trade seats.. i shrug and sit back down in my seat. when he gets back, i think what the hell, and move to the window seat. he fidgits around some more with his carry on and the plane takes off.

in flight he pulls out a bottle of vodka, half of a seasoned baked chicken, a loaf of bread and tomato juice from this black bag. he's got a miniDV camera, and what all in there. so he has this mini-feast spread out in front of us, offers me some of his vodka and we start drinking and eating. i might go into more detail next post but for now, we had a party. i told him it was my birthday so it became my birthday party.

turns out he is from a small village near kherson, his mother is in new york and he has a green card. says he can hook me up with ukrainian ladies...lol

we traded numbers and email addys so i'll see what he means by that exactly. it seems his mother has something to do with it and there may be photos..i dunno..  we drank the whole bottle...

so now we're drukas.. (russian for friends) not spelled right i'm sure

[Turboguy]

hi turbo..  i do not have much to say about tours because i have not been on one of the typical tours. i did go on one of jack bragg's party road trips. i have a hard time calling it a tour but it is in that sense of the word. the big difference is how he conducts his tours as opposed to the others. (i feel confident talking about this knowing i am not going to be attacked by one of the moderators like i was back at the "other" board, i.e. cameragurl).

 

I guess the nice thing is there are so many ways to go about finding the right gal for each of us.   I have been on three of EC's romance tours and I had a great time.   I think the gals who come to these are often scammers and I think there are probably better ways to find a wife, but they are a lot of fun.   I think if I had it to do over again I would likely do AFA's tours rather than EC's but I liked EC's

Sorry you got attacked for sharing your views.   That seems to happen, even here.  It is too bad people sometimes seem to want to attack the person rather than the ideas they express but it happens. 

If all goes as planned I hope I am out of the market for tours, road trips, agencies and the like but I would enjoy hearing how Jack Bragg does it that is so different.