Russian medicine

[Mir]

Ellen (or should I say God as you are always correct?)

Not everything needs removing

[Elen]

Ellen (or should I say God as you are always correct?)
Not everything needs removing

Say that to Guy in Crimea because it was he who made claims to Russian medicine  because of NOT removing something there

Ps I 'm not a believer  - how could I be - so Elen would be enough for me

 Also it would be enough for me that, if you foreigners saw in alien culture something, what didn't' fit frames of your minds, molded by what you have been taught, then before you made conclusions about how ODD and WRONG and STUPID other nation behaved you may be would think for a moment that such behaviour have some reasons, those reasons came from experience people got living in that particular circumstances which you just can get and not all those reasons are "cemented silly superstition"
   

[Mir]

stupid behaviour is not confined to foreign cultures and is seen where I practice on a daily basis as well

[Elen]

That depends what you call stupid behaviour
For example for me making fun from methodes of tradition medicine which really work is the same stupid behaviour like to belive that everything could be heal with tradition medicine

[Mir]

I will accept whatever your definition is of stupid behaviour.
Takes place everywhere

[ScottinCrimea]

Okay Elen, I get it now:
     1)You know everything
     2)Everyone else is stupid
     3)Russian medicine is the best anywhere
     4)No matter how much I learned from 12 years of education and 20 years of experience, it's wrong if it differs from what a Russian doctor says.
     5)Your single experience with a skin problem makes you much more of an expert on these things than me or anyone else for that matter (see #1)
     6) If any one makes any negative comment on any one aspect of Russian life, education, medicine, etc they are attacking ALL Russians and EVERYTHING about Russia because of course Russians are never wrong and everything Russian is the best.
     7) There is no difference between objective critism and ridicule

I bow to your self inflicted superiority
     

[ScottinCrimea]

Mir,
     Would you agree that the vast majority of things removed are sent to pathology for examination are done so for legal purposes rather than medical ones?

[Mir]

Scot

Well you can say that as we do send off obviously benign looking lesions, just because occasionally one gets a nasty unexpected surprise.

[Elen]

Okay Elen, I get it now:
     

Like ALWAYS you got ALL in wrong way    Just accept such a sad fate of yours May be in next recornation you would  be more lucky with understanding others

PS BTW where are those 4 pages you promiced me ?

[ScottinCrimea]

     I had problems with my internet service and was forced to use an internet cafe, so I was unable to take the time to give you what I promised.  that will follow.  And in return, have you provided any positive comments on American medicine or negative ones on Eussian medicine as I asked?
     I sense that you have a severe problem with insecurity about yourself such that you feel the need to always be right.  this is very sad.

[Elen]

       And in return, have you provided any positive comments on American medicine or negative ones on Eussian medicine as I asked?
     I sense that you have a severe problem with insecurity about yourself such that you feel the need to always be right.  this is very sad.

Why am I "obligated" to provide you possitive comments on American medicine if I made no one negative comment about it?  If you failed to notice I'm right about something I had dealt with - may be that's why I'm always right  And as I have not deal with American medicine I make no comments about it ( like I never make comments about life in America as well)

As for negative commnets on Russian medicine than you have done enough for our both score 

 Though I changed my mind You may post nothing about American medicine ( actually as I 'm not going to live there I don't care about it's negative and positive sides too much) If you  post that you were wrong with your assumtion about Russian medicine about
liason (  or how they are spelled there those  бородавки)   I would count that we are quits)

Ps and turn down your "sense" detector it does not work correctly

[ScottinCrimea]

     Elen, you are not obligated to do anything as far as I'm concerned.  I offered the opportunity only for you to show you are open-minded and williong to look at both sides.  Apparently you are not  I'm sorry to have to break it to you , but despite your denial, you did indeed have something negative to say about American medicine.  Remember this quote? "American doctors who are just helpless without their electronic"
    So now tell me how I was wrong about Russian doctors and lesions?  I backed up everything I said with either forst hand experience or quotes from medical literature.  What evidence did you present?
     Now,as I promised, here are my thoughts on what I see wrong with American medicine.  First I have to say that it is internationally accepted that medical education and technology are the best in the world.  That is why you will see so many foreign students trying to get accepted to American medical schools and why the wealthiest people in the world, for example the royal family of Saudi Arabia, choose to go to the US for their medical care.  Even the government of Ukraine has acknowledged that their medical training is not up to standard and have appointed a council to work on this.
     I began to see a disturbing trend in the US among new medical graduates.  When and where I was trained, there was not so much access to CT scanners, newer technology and testing equipment.  We were taught to use our fives senses to make the diagnosis and use additional tests to confirm it.  Now I see too many rely on technology rather than their minds.  I see doctors who will not even touch a patient but instead order a large series of expensive tests hoping that they will provide the diagnosis.  The human aspect of medical practice is becoming lost.  In addition, legal and business matters have taken precedence over the good of the patient.  INsurance companies limit the medical treatments or the time allowed in the hospital strictly for fiancial reasons.  Lawyers are waiting for the slightest opportunity to slap a lawsuit on you so doctors are forced to order unnecessary tests just to show that they took "all possible precautions".
     Doctors in the US are sometimes too quick to embrace some new techologies or too slow to embrace others.  Just like in Russia, they sometimes stick to traditional treatments even when it can be shown that they are ineffective or something is more effective.  For example, it was standard practice to cover an eye with a patch for 24 hours if there was a small scratch on it.  Studies showed that this made absolutely no difference and was more uncomfortable for the patient.  Even knowing this, most doctors still continued to patch these eyes because it was the  "traditional" way.  I never promised 4 pages and I think this is enough to show that I can be objective.  How about you?

[Elen]

     Elen, you are not obligated to do anything as far as I'm concerned.  I offered the opportunity only for you to show you are open-minded and williong to look at both sides.  Apparently you are not  I'm sorry to have to break it to you , but despite your denial, you did indeed have something negative to say about American medicine.  Remember this quote? "American doctors who are just helpless without their electronic"

Now I'am open minded but I don't participate in dicussions about subject I know little aout (that "helpless without electeinic"" is all that little I know 
BTW open-mind I think mean an ability to accept new information So I chanched my mind one more time and am ready to accept your negative information about American medicine ( for I could take participation nect time in such dicussions at some other board)

So let got boy You promiced me 4 pages with such information I'm hearing you with opened mouth ( I want exactly 4  Ask others to help you with their moanings about American health care system like they helped you to do in a case with Russian one)

    So now tell me how I was wrong about Russian doctors and lesions?  I backed up everything I said with either forst hand experience or quotes from medical literature.  What evidence did you present?

You were wrong because you made "global" conclusion about CONCEPT of Russian medicine and about what Russian doctors were taught in their Russian medical Univercities basing your conclusion on words of few people who had those lesions.

[ScottinCrimea]

Show me the quote where I made a "global" conclusion rather than talking about specific deficiencies.  Also show me where I promised you 4 pages.  As far as participating in discussions that you know little about, it seems you do that quite frequently.  You have shown that you know very little about medicine yet you have challenged me and others on this very subject.  There is a famous quote that fits you very well. "It's not what we don't know that gives us problems, it's what we are sure about that is just plain wrong"  Your "I know everything" attitude prevents any possibility of learning in the future, and to quote another, "When we stop learning we start dying".

[Elen]

       It is not that the doctors refuse to treat them it is that the doctors were taught WRONG.  The fact that so many doctors were telling patients the same things suggests a huge weakness in the medical education system in Russia, since this thinking is contrary to the medical thinking of any other country that I have had experience with. 

I took THAT like your attempt to make global conclusion about concept of Russian medicine which you made basing  your opinion on words of people with  бородавки 

[Elen]

As far as participating in discussions that you know little about, it seems you do that quite frequently.  You have shown that you know very little about medicine yet you have challenged me and others on this very subject. 

However little I know in medicine it's some more than your knwledge about "Russian" conception of treatment бородавок  you demostrated here ( and that was the only ONE topic I discussed here with you. )

 Because there is no need to have medical education and medical practice to know that there is an OCEAN clinic here which do that So reason people "preffer" to have them is in anything else but "medical education system in Russia"   like you claimed that

(And as far as I see my little knowledge that Russian doctors WERE taught to heal    polyps and etc and DO that was not different to what Zena who has that medical education told you)

As for 4 pages - don't be sooo boring boy and owe some sence of humor somewhere 

[ScottinCrimea]

Talking about a weakness in a specific area of Russian medical education is not making a global statement about all areas of medical education in Russia.  Sorry, your attempt to justify your statement doesn't work.  It's not "everything or nothing" with everyone else, only you.  So get your definitions straight and stop trying to change the concept that has been presented.  Have you ever seen the lesion we have been discussing?  If so, please describe to me the nature and appearance of acrochordons and skin papillomas.  If you can't even describe what they are you certainly can't comment on the best treatment for them.  Or will you just ignore the challenge?  the response "a lot of clinics here fix them" doesn't address the original question, which you so conveniently ignore.  It's amazing how as soon as you begin to lose an arguement, you either misrepresent what the other side said or what you said previously, try to direct the arguement in another direction, or simply ignore what you can't respond to.  For example, it's amazing how any disagreement with my comments of oral medicine versus injections were suddenly dropped once I presented the study by the World Health Organization backing up what I said.