My very own thread about Pavel.

[GregfromGa]

As many of you may or may not know I am happily married to a beautiful Ukrainian girl. I have been fortunate to travel to Ukraine many times over the past 6 years. I have always tried to help the new guy in everyway because I was once the new guy. I got lucky and had  and met some good people that saved me money and really opened my eyes to this entire process.

I always say that your first trip is going to cost you more and its just for getting your feet wet. On my first trip to Ukraine I rented a nice flat on Khreshatic from an agency woman. For the past 6 years I now just call the owner whom I consider my friend now and rent directly from her. I have sent her lots of business in the past and I always like to help her out in that way. I view saving money as a game. Nobody wants to get fleeced. Nobody wants to feel ripped off,but there is a price for service. I actually love haggling over the price of cabs at Boryspil. If someone doesnt try to rip me I'll use him the next day or my return trip as well,but they only have 1 chance.

I have used Pavel several times and I consider him a friend. I have recommended him many times over the years. I have trusted him with large sums of money to pay deposits on hotels in Yalta. If I really needed a go to guy in Kiev it would be Pavel because he is efficient. I try to visit with Pavel everytime I go to Kiev. Although I never used Pavel on a date I know he knows how to read Ukrainian women. He is a valuble asset to newbies in this regard as well. It only takes 1 to really clip your wings good. I am sorry that Kuna had a bad experience. I am sorry that he used this avenue to throw Pavel under the bus. This entire incident should probably not have happened but it was probably just a breakdown in communication and expections.

I will continue to recommend Pavel and I would hope that both Pavel and Kuna can learn from what happened. Every clients expectations are different. The trick is trying to pacify everyones needs and keep everyone happy. I would like to think Pavel knows there was a breakdown and he's going to prevent it from happening again. This process aint easy and its certainly not for everyone. If you are afraid to spend a few bucks then you really need to find another hobby. This aint cheap but you can save some money if you get in the time. Good luck to Kuna and Pavel I'll see you this summer. Ira is getting married so the three of us will be there.

[Stirlitz]

Thread #3 about Pavel otta their…

I am getting jealous!! No threads about me!

    

[IAmZon]

Igor,

All you need it a good Public Relations guy:)

I bet your referrals and business increased if you just put down that DAMN gun  ... I know, I know, you have not shot it.  But, it does not give a welcoming impression.

[funkola]

The gun is what might steer me to him. Anyone who likes guns is points ahead in my book. 

[Stirlitz]

Rivardco, I am starting to smell a rat there… Do you mean that Kuna was this sort of guy for Pavel? He did a good job indeed… I may reconsider my refusal to ever have him as a client, perhaps I should try to ‘rip him off’ once to have some publicity here

[IAmZon]

No rat Igor ... just harmless bantering.

Like the new avatar -

[Michelangelo]

Get Smart, Rivardco    LOL

p.s. I like Igor's new avatar, too.  But your maxwell smart is classic...

[Son of Clyde]

Would you believe Get Smart was my favorite sitcom for many years?

[solomon]

Is this Pavel Poznyak?

[DonAz]

Greg good post about your experience with Pavel.
As we all know not everyone will be pleased and I do understand Kuna's bitterness. I am sure that for him the experience is real and I for do not down play it.

He does make several good points on dealing with guides. However I disagree with about that guides not being useful or necessary. As I said before, for a first time travel a good guide can help to make your trip pleasant and secure. Knowing that you have a front man, a majordomo if you will, is a wonderful way of making sure the mundane and the essential details are covered for you.
As Greg mentions he has developed a friendship with Pavel.

Who among us would not back up a friend?

I hope this thread will remain clean and objective, both pro and con, without the mud slinging we saw in the other threads  on this subject.

 It doesn’t  serves any  purpose, it only serves to be distractive.

DonAz

[sweggin]

Greg good post about your experience with Pavel.

I second that! From reading just about all of Gregs post over the last couple of years i find his judge of Pavels character spot on.

As well, i consider Pavel a friend. One can't deny his fun loving personality and calmness under pressure, pressure i put him under. One experince i was having in Vinnitsa, UA, well, really a crash and burn situation, Pavel assured me after a few long phone calls that he, if needed would drive from Kiev at 3 am pick me up. Not once was i charged for those calls that took a couple hours out of his work day. He did pick me up earlyer than arranged at a less price than it was to deliver me.

I admit that i have'nt read all of Kunas T/R, about half. Not flamming him but would like to point out that sometimes when trips go south, some guys look for people to spread the blame.

[Kuna]

Sweggin you fool...
Read my trip report and learn something "my friend".  My trip didn't go south...  Far from it actually, but I'll post an update soon.  I suspect you won't read the update unless I use small words though.  I'm simply warning people when they use guides they shouldn't trust everythng they say and they should question them oon the advice they get...


Don... 
We've been through this in the other thread.. I'm not bitter with Pavel but I'm getting bitter with you!  I'm warning newbies who use guides to be very, very careful.  Do you have a problem with me warning newbies that all may not be as it seems, or should we decieve them and make them think everything is roses?



Newbies...
If you need someone to hold your hand choose your guide carefully.  Pavel may be a good option for you but check everything you're told.. compare prices... don't assume any guide is giving you the best advice... and demand the services you want, how you want them and when you want them!


Simple reply???

Good!

Kuna


Oh, I will keep responding ever time I see something misleading or deceptive!

[DonAz]

Sweggin you fool...  

 Thank you for sharing that and I am sure the newbies are learning much from your insult to  another member for posting his experience. By making your degrading comment to Sweggin you only make yourself look small and petty.

 Read my trip report and learn something "my friend".  My trip didn't go south...  Far from it actually, but I'll post an update soon.  I suspect you won't read the update unless I use small words though.  I'm simply warning people when they use guides they shouldn't trust everything they say and they should question them on the advice they get... 

 Where did you get the idea that  your T/R is  prerequisite reading for experienced guys such as Greg and Swiggen to post about their positive experiences with Pavel. That’s a bit arrogant don’t ya think.  They are not contradicting you. They are happy guys and are sharing their happy stories about Pavel. It ain’t about you at all kuno

 Don... 
We've been through this in the other thread.. I'm not bitter with Pavel but I'm getting bitter with you!

 Oh really… well here is my post, please tell us what upsets  you so much in  this post that causes  you to be  bitter? As you should have noticed I did bring up the fact that about the other thread and also that I hoped we would stay away from the mud slinging. As we see you denied that request with your petty comment to ALL who spoke positively about guides in general and/or Pavel

Here ya go…

Greg good post about your experience with Pavel.
As we all know not everyone will be pleased and I do understand Kuna's bitterness. I am sure that for him the experience is real and I for do not down play it.

He does make several good points on dealing with guides . However I disagree with about that guides not being useful or necessary. As I said before, for a first time travel a good guide can help to make your trip pleasant and secure. Knowing that you have a front man, a majordomo if you will, is a wonderful way of making sure the mundane and the essential details are covered for you.

As Greg mentions he has developed a friendship with Pavel.

Who among us would not back up a friend?

I hope this thread will remain clean and objective, both pro and con, without the mud slinging we saw in the other threads  on this subject.

 It doesn’t  serves any  purpose, it only serves to be distractive.

DonAz

 Ok....so now... tell us  which part, of that post, make you so bitter?

  I'm warning newbies who use guides to be very, very careful.  Do you have a problem with me warning newbies that all may not be as it seems, or should we deceive them and make them think everything is roses? 

 No I do not have any problem at all with you posting common sense stuff. However you are the one having the problem with me posting my views.

 My post is quite simply put and summed up this way.

 1.   Greg has used the services of Pavel for years  now.
 2.   He is happy and made a good friend in Pavel.
 3.   I hope this thread will be both clean and objective. 
 4.   I hope both sides of the equation   both  the pro and the con will  state their views without mud slinging.
 5.   I do not see how mudslinging is helpful to anyone-including the newbies you mention you want to help.


 Would  you please show us which part of my post you construed as an attempt by me  to deceive anyone?

   Newbies...
If you need someone to hold your hand choose your guide carefully.  Pavel may be a good option for you but check everything you're told.. compare prices... don't assume any guide is giving you the best advice... and demand the services you want, how you want them and when you want them!

 I agree with most of what you said except the condescending remark about guide service being just hand holding. Obviously you did not think of it that way when you employed Pavel or did you?

And to add to your points kuno.....Newbies I would also advise that you read the posts of the long time, successful posters. Send them PM’s if you wish or better yet, post your questions on the board and receive a wide range of responses to help you to figure out which way you are most comfortable with. It is really that simple IMO..

Oh, I will keep responding ever time I see something misleading or deceptive! 

 Well that’s great… bully for you. If you really mean it, I think it is a good idea and I would applaud you.
But again I ask you, would you pleeease quote from any post on this thread that is deceptive and/or misleading?  

 In closing I would also ask you to keep your comment civil and don’t get so wound up over this. It does not play well IMO. If you keep up that tone it just looks like you are raging and lashing out. Something to think about.

All the best,

DonAz

[Stirlitz]

Sweggin you fool...

A question to Dan.

Now kuna calls me a boofhead. Now he calls someone else a fool. Is it a type of attitude that is tolerated in this board? Just tell me the truth. I am not going to start name-calling, simply wondering if it is allowed here to simply insult anyone who has a different opinion.

Whatever the answer is (I am now addressing others) I doubt that such a speaker should be trusted at all. Perhaps his problem with Pavel was just a difference of opinions, like with Sweggin.

[BC]

Stirlitz,

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3958.0

One of the things I like about this board is that it is largely self-moderated by the members with responses like DonAZ and you provided.  Sometimes I think sound peer pressure and 'board conscience' works best.

Sometimes folks like to dig their own holes that serve as good examples to others.

Then again if all else fails.....

[Son of Clyde]

I think Kuna is a good guy but this should maybe be put to rest very soon. Pavel made a good point that not everyone will be happy with his services. This is human nature. if you continue to harp on this it will eventually have a negative impact on Pavel and other guides. Maybe we need a 10 commandments on guide services and leave it at that. The more that is posted on this subject the more negative it will get. Put it to rest please.

[Stirlitz]

Like somebody wrote in the other thread,

even a true sadist will give up at one point or other, even if the masochist continues to beg for more.

So we now know that kuna is NOT a true sadist.

He is a false sadist I assume accordingly.

[BC]

Stirlitz,

That's 'self moderation'?

Give us a break too..  I could put my previous 'dark humor' statement in context here but it simply wouldn't sound nice at all.

[Son of Clyde]

I really think we could create a checklist for future travelers to Eastern Europe that will spell out what services they should request from a guide. It will then be up to the individual and the guide to take it from there. If you check and double check what is needed it will less likely end up with a failure to communicate. It is one thing to go shopping and not know what you will buy and another thing to have a shopping list. There is a certain "grey area" that exists. Emergencies like health issues, being scammed, missed flight etc which cannot be accounted for and must be filtered in as extra services.

[Kuna]

I really think we could create a checklist for future travelers to Eastern Europe that will spell out what services they should request from a guide. It will then be up to the individual and the guide to take it from there.

Excellent idea!

[sweggin]

Sweggin you fool...
Read my trip report and learn something "my friend".  My trip didn't go south... 

You call me a fool and youre friend in the same breath..LOL. Learn something from you? doubt it.

I didn't say youre trip went south! Maybe next time i'll try and write my responce in crayon so you'll get what i'm writting.

[catzenmouse]

sweggin,

 First you admitted that you only read half of the TR then you stated that it went South. Perhaps write your post in crayon first then read it before taking shots. This last sentence is an example of how I see your thinking in your reply.

 It is in no one's best interest here to name call and slam. We ALL need to keep the topic in focus and debate the points of a post. Not the poster.

Ken

[DonAz]

sweggin,
 First you admitted that you only read half of the TR then you stated that it went South.

Most of swiggen’s post was about his experience with Pavel and how Pavel pulled his chestnuts out of the fire.
Swiggin stated that he read half of kuno’s TR. So what?

So in the theme of not flaming , he makes a broad statement of how, when things go south some  guys (plural and general) will try to find someone else to blame. Ain’t that the truth though? We’ve seen that before haven’t we? I think he separated kuno from that point by mentioning he only read half of kuno’s TR.

Of course this is my own interpetation of swiggens post. 

Heck I didn’t read a word of his TR.

Kuno spends a more time ,effort and energy posting mostly  negatively recently

Perhaps write your post in crayon first then read it before taking shots. This last sentence is an example of how I see your thinking in your reply.

Now Ken you are contradicting yourself bigtime in this post. First You slam swiggen with your crayon remark and then you say we should not slam or resort to name calling. Did you read kunos **slam ** to swiggen with this little gem

 

Sweggin you fool...
I suspect you won't read the update [/b]unless I use small words though.  [/b]

Swiggen only reacted to kuno calling him a fool and insulting swiggiens intelligence.Would you just stand idle if that kind of slamming and name calling was directed at you?

It is in no one's best interest here to name call and slam. We ALL need to keep the topic in focus and debate the points of a post. Not the poster.

Yes. you’re right, and I couldn’t agree more. I guess that’s  why swiggen must be upset don’t ya think?Kuno resorted to slamming by calling him a FOOL   and name calling this  poster instead of debating the  points of the post.Ken don’t you think kuno owes swiggen an apology for *slamming* him with his  *name calling* and insulting his intelligence? I sure do!


DonAz

[catzenmouse]

Don,

 The contradiction WAS the point.

Now Ken you are contradicting yourself bigtime in this post. First You slam swiggen with your crayon remark and then you say we should not slam or resort to name calling. Did you read kunos **slam ** to swiggen with this little gem

[DonAz]

Don,

 The contradiction WAS the point.

Ok Ken I get it 

DonAz