Any suggestions on guiding this guy?

[Muj]

Hi everyone,

Married since last year and loving all of it .  Here's the situation:
My wife confides in me of a marriage involving a woman, Elen, from Kiev and her husband, Joe.   Elen becomes pregnant shortly after arriving in the US on a fiancee visa and they marry.  She calls my wife constantly to discuss various marital issues.  Well, what do you expect?  Some difficulties in a new marriage?  Sure, but some things kinda extraordinary.
Joe earns a good living but carries no health insurance and pressures Elen to not divulge the marriage and continue the free medical.   The hospital constantly asks Elen for payment of services but she maintains her husband's directive.
Joe proves miserly in any purchase.   Not so surprising as he's stingy in purchases for himself as well.
He complains of the expensive US long distance calls but provides no discount service.
He is a yeller and jealous.  Joe called me on my cell to tell me I'm the f###ing MF calling his wife.  My wife called Elen a few times from my cell.  I called him back later, after downing a few, and calmly informed him that me wife calls from my cell and he may call me anytime to discuss anything and ask rather than assume.  The conversation was one sided.
Also, not surprising, no acknowledgement of March 8 by him.
Elen pretty well knew the situation prior to marrying him but had nothing to return to in UA.  Also we believed she exaggerated some until the abrasive call on my cell.
She "bears" him now but wonders of the future.
He obviously wants a family but is thick and slow in his evolving his lifestyle for family.
What to tell this guy?
What to advise Elen?
 ???

[ScottinCrimea]

Nothing you can tell this type of guy will change him, so no use wasting your time.  As for Elen, she must understand that if she continues to commit the medical fraud and gets caught, she will be subject to deportation and worse.  Her best course is to follow the law because it is her risk, not her husband's.  If things don't work out, she wants to be in a position to have the choice to stay, and she can only do this if she doesn't break the rules.  Of course I see that her husband will raise he** about this, but she has to protect herself first and foremost if her husband won't.

[GregfromGa]

It's good that your wife is a caring enough woman to talk with her about these situations. Elen is stuck in a bad situation here but with a guy like that I dont know if theres a light at the end of the tunnel. We had insurance but it costs out the ass thats for sure. Your wife is probably the only friend the poor girl has and I would let her continue to be an avenue for Elen to vent so long as it doesnt effect your marriage.

When we were shopping in a Russian market a few weeks back the owner told my wife so many American men who came there with their wives only allowed their wives to buy very little products. Man there are pricks at every turn and its unfortunate that many of those guys could never stay married here so they went abroad. I would do some homework for her in the way of some social programs in her area that would help her when this slow trainwreck finally comes to an end. She'll need someone thats for sure. Maybe this focking guy will change when the baby arrives. Who knows? It might actually push him over the edge.

[timothe]

Wow!  Just wow!  What a horrible situation for this poor woman!  She's pregnant and he refuses to buy health insurance? 

Since I'm not yet married, I don't feel it appropriate to offer my opinion.  I just hope this clown changes his mind and owns up to his responsibilities. 

[Mir]

What I can't understand is that you write that Ellen knew what he was like before she decided to come to US as his finance! If true then she should have expected all this.
Question is what compels such women to develop a relationship with such men?
And on top of that she let herself become pregnant by him...........

[Turboguy]

I have to agree, there is nothing you can do.   It is a very sad situation for the gal.  The husband won't change and she can either accept her life or change it but getting pregnant to him only makes it worse.   It sounds like she was desperate and it sounds like she should still be desperate.   She may have not had much to go back to but does she have any more here?

[William3rd]

Looks like another VAWA poster child coming up.

These are the kind of guys that help the so-called feminists. Can you give a few more facts on how they met? I have a theory or two. . .

From the original facts, we have mental abuse, coersion to possibly commit fraud or wrongfully apply for benefits, extreme jealousy. And we have a credible poster on the board talking about it. He doesnt have to hit her for her to get VAWA protection although from what I am reading, the next step is a slap.

Has he even filed for her AOS or is he delaying that as well?

[Wayne B]

Nothing you can tell this type of guy will change him, so no use wasting your time.  As for Elen, she must understand that if she continues to commit the medical fraud and gets caught, she will be subject to deportation and worse.  Her best course is to follow the law because it is her risk, not her husband's.  If things don't work out, she wants to be in a position to have the choice to stay, and she can only do this if she doesn't break the rules.  Of course I see that her husband will raise he** about this, but she has to protect herself first and foremost if her husband won't.

I agree with going by the rules....,but Elen and baby need important health care for the two of them....I can only suggest trying to find a clinic in her area?  Also tell Elen about low cost phone call through sites like 'Speedy pin' it cost me 2.7 cents a minute to call Kharkov.

[jb]

We had a case like this one in Corpus several years ago, a Mexican man brought over a young Ukrainian girl, immediately knocked her up, and refused to complete the rest of the paperwork for her immigration.  Kept her a virtual prisoner in a very small and poor house in a lousy neighborhood.  Needless to say, as soon as the other RWs here learned of her situation, she was clued in.  She filed the necessary abuse charges and was soon out of there.  Deservedly so, IMO.  Men like that don't deserve a shot at a RW wife.  In this story I'm reminded of Prince Alpo's buddy, Eric.  Except in Eric's case, it is worse, at least the Mexican didn't want to wear her panties.  The hand writing is on the wall for anybody to read.

[Mir]

Men like that don't deserve a shot at a RW wife.

Men like that don't deserve any wife period.

[Jet]

Looks like another VAWA poster child coming up.

Took the words right out of my mouth...

There is no good clear resolution to this situation. Whatever she eventually does, is gonna be tough on her.

Mir,
Just because she knew the situation before marriage does not mean she knew the situation before arriving in the US. Also consider that when you mix a control freak like this guy apparently is with a woman who has little idea how things work in her new country of residence and what options may be available to her, a statement like "And on top of that she let herself become pregnant by him..........." is a bit harsh, don't ya think?

Personally, I don't see her shouldering a whole hell of a lot of blame in this situation

[William3rd]

Unfortunately- VAWA becomes her answer. . . . . and her only answer.

The fraud activity attaches to him and it all falls into the pattern. See my DV posting from last month. . . .

Some people should not be allowed to reproduce. . . . .

[I/O]

Some people should not be allowed to reproduce. . . . .

Some people should not be allowed "To Be" period.

I/O

[Mir]

J

You can consider it a bit harsh.
Still does not take away the fact that she allowed herself to be abused by a man for the sake of moving to USA.
I find it hard to believe that she fell in love with him knowing his crap personality.So what else would be the reason to become his fiance?
Now I don't mean that she deserves what she gets,only that FSU women should start relation with an Western man for the right reasons and desperation should not be the main one.

[Turboguy]

Just because she married him and is having his child does not mean she fell in love with him Mir.

There is no doubt she made some bad decisons but I can't say she has much blame in this situation.  It is sad the whole way around.   It is a shame there are people like that but there are.

[Elen]

If she can ( I mean if she can to get a divorse now) she should run back to Kiev as soon as posible
 I don't belive that things could be worse in Kiev for her  than in alien country with SUCH a huband who would be able "to chain" her to himself with Americans laws after baby arrived

[Mir]

OK OK I am sorry, I forgot that love has no role to play in a FSU-WM marriage or at least it is not the important ingredient!
I stand corrected.

[William3rd]

I am not going to say what she should do. I think it is already obvious from prior posts in this section.

I feel for the child of this union-brought into this world by two parents who are less than stellar

[Rvrwind]

Damn, where'd I put those bullets?????
Give me an address, we'll sort him out pronto!!!

[Bruno]

Damn, where'd I put those bullets?????

In the london Imperial War Museum, left of the Russian T-34 tank


For the gun, only via railroad

 

[Muj]

Thanks for the good input everyone.

Elen, as far as returning, Joe offered her airfare before and after the marriage.  So she may return at any time.

Her fraud for free medical particularly concerns her and us.  So facts here proves helpful.  Wm3, I agree, it will legally apply to Joe, if caught.  Probably a lien on his property.

As stated, number one concern is the child at this point.  Joe even went so far as to express his disappointment that Elen produces a girl rather than a boy.  He makes good money but refuses to pay any bills and pressures her to commit fraud.  Not a good prognosis for the future.

He has applied for AOS and her temp green card arrives in the mail within a month.   Elen indicates Joe wants her to be more independent and less work for him.

We both feel he is not stupid enough or motivated to physically abuse her.  He is oafish in his interactions with women.  Also his parents are from the FSU. 

Basically we know little of her behaviour to have "earned" his anger and distrust.  Well, trust is hard earned from a paranoid jerk.  Some point to the fact she knew of or at least learned of his behaviour prior to marrying.  She was free to return, pregnant or not.  But he also chose to marry her instead of driving her to the airport.  So we prefer no to philosophize on blame here.

Fact is she is pregnant and they are married.  He needs to realize life is changed and he has someone to make happy and step up and be the man.

[I/O]

Muj: Your points are well enough taken and most of us have sortta jumped on the wagon of disgust without addressing your question.

The only thing I can suggest, if it is possible, is to try to get along side this guy a bit and perhaps demonstrate to him that there is a better and whats more, personally more rewarding way to go about things.  Might test your patience a bit, but it might be a worthwhile exercise.

FWIW

I/O

[Muj]

It's good that your wife is a caring enough woman to talk with her about these situations. Elen is stuck in a bad situation here but with a guy like that I dont know if theres a light at the end of the tunnel. We had insurance but it costs out the ass thats for sure. Your wife is probably the only friend the poor girl has and I would let her continue to be an avenue for Elen to vent so long as it doesnt effect your marriage.

When we were shopping in a Russian market a few weeks back the owner told my wife so many American men who came there with their wives only allowed their wives to buy very little products. Man there are pricks at every turn and its unfortunate that many of those guys could never stay married here so they went abroad. I would do some homework for her in the way of some social programs in her area that would help her when this slow trainwreck finally comes to an end. She'll need someone thats for sure. Maybe this focking guy will change when the baby arrives. Who knows? It might actually push him over the edge.

Yes Greg, my wife is very caring, one of many great qualities.  She's the best . 
Also, my wife put Elen in contact with another woman in her state for support.  Ill say Ellen and Joe did very little to prepare themselves for their unique situation.  For instance Elen took no English classes prior to arriving and did not even tell her parents she was meeting a man in the US.  Joe never met her parents!  Joe however is buying a new home for the new family to live in as the present home is inadequate.

[Muj]

Yes, I/O this guy needs some sort of direction here.  Communication skills certainly are prime in this situation.

[Zhena]

Nothing you can tell this type of guy will change him, so no use wasting your time.  As for Elen, she must understand that if she continues to commit the medical fraud and gets caught, she will be subject to deportation and worse.  Her best course is to follow the law because it is her risk, not her husband's.  If things don't work out, she wants to be in a position to have the choice to stay, and she can only do this if she doesn't break the rules.  Of course I see that her husband will raise he** about this, but she has to protect herself first and foremost if her husband won't.

Scot,but what should she do? If he refuses a normal clinic? To whom to complain?