Cultural Differences in Sexuality

[Gator]

El Rock,

because the subject of the thread is sexuality, I assume you are describing phone sex.  If so, the RW's aggressive behavior suggests that the RW were really into it.

[El Rock]

El Rock,

because the subject of the thread is sexuality, I assume you are describing phone sex.  If so, the RW's aggressive behavior suggests that the RW were really into it.

Ok Ok , sorry , got off   subject  a  little   bit.
I am now making it a reference  to the  personality  difference of the  two   women .
And I am assuming that   relates to the bed room , too.

I would not have phone sex with anyone that I was not sure was a women , I mean , I would have to see her  first .

[Pike]

I may be wrong , BUT , I believe that Russian women are much more emotional  and in your face  , pushy  , aggressive .
I have noticed that Ukrainian  women  are more laid back , reserved .
The RW I have met online  & talked to via the phone were too  aggressive   .
The Ukraine women  I have met the same  way  were not  .
I notice a big difference  . Am I wrong ?

Yes, you are wrong.  There is no difference between RW and UW.

[Gator]

I would not have phone sex with anyone that I was not sure was a women , I mean , I would have to see her  first .

For some reason, this really makes me laugh.

Did you see the film Closers in which Jude law and Clive Owen have some torrid cybersex with each other, with one (I forget whom) posing as a woman - Julia Roberts?

[El Rock]

Yes, you are wrong.  There is no difference between RW and UW.

My statement is also   based on other  people's  perceptions  , too .
Not just my own experience , so , I believe  there is some validity to it.

Again , to cover my ass   , I could be wrong , .

[Lily]

 

RW think many AM are silly. 

Rivardco's observation is quite right. Generally, it belongs to a sort of a bon ton in FSU to keep a serious face, don't show emotions, don't smile in public unless there is an obvious reason for people to laugh. I think this is a legacy of totalitaristic society,but it looks like slightly changing to the better.

Gator, probably some RW that you mention just think AM use to have an easier life, therefore AM usually keep a friendly attitude towards life. But it is not equal to being silly, right? 

[El Rock]

Is it true that FSU women   love receiving oral sex   but giving it to a man is  not  gonna happen ???

[Lily]

Is it true that FSU women   love receiving oral sex   but giving it to a man is  not  gonna happen ???

as far as I could see it in Russia, the opposite would be rather true.

[wiz]

Is it true that FSU women   love receiving oral sex   but giving it to a man is  not  gonna happen ???

None of the two applies generally but of course there are the shinning exceptions.

They are not well educated in the art of cama sutra as also do not have sexual education.
it is a tamboo not to speak about these matters at home or with friends.

from  letter posted sometime ago:

Sex with a Russian woman beyond about the third time is about like making love to a dead horse. They don't take part except to lay still and let it happen. I had several Russian women tell me that they lived with their husbands for 10 years without ever kissing them. They had the dead horse sex, but they never kissed their husbands in the process of sex. You may think that could happen in isolated cases, but I talked to enough Russian women and saw enough of them to tell you that it is normal. Kissing, you see, is showing affection and love, and that is not part of a Communist State. Of course, communism is dead, and the Russians hate communism, but it will be years before they understand that the fear of love is a communist thing.

Russian men are all macho. They all must be brave. Showing love for a woman is a weakness. They talk love, but they don't show it. Many Russian men are so brave (macho) that they don't look both ways when crossing the street. Looking isn't macho. Thus many get killed by cars. Of course, the men in the cars are macho too, thus they pretend they don't see the people on foot. Macho for men is the thing in Russia. Macho sex is to take the woman by the hand, push her on the bed, and make love to her, and then go back out and drink another drink. Women in Russia expect it.

make what you wish of that letter  but not far from the truth.

[El Rock]

That's depressing  , what's below






from  letter posted sometime ago:

Sex with a Russian woman beyond about the third time is about like making love to a dead horse. They don't take part except to lay still and let it happen. I had several Russian women tell me that they lived with their husbands for 10 years without ever kissing them. They had the dead horse sex, but they never kissed their husbands in the process of sex. You may think that could happen in isolated cases, but I talked to enough Russian women and saw enough of them to tell you that it is normal. Kissing, you see, is showing affection and love, and that is not part of a Communist State. Of course, communism is dead, and the Russians hate communism, but it will be years before they understand that the fear of love is a communist thing.

Russian men are all macho. They all must be brave. Showing love for a woman is a weakness. They talk love, but they don't show it. Many Russian men are so brave (macho) that they don't look both ways when crossing the street. Looking isn't macho. Thus many get killed by cars. Of course, the men in the cars are macho too, thus they pretend they don't see the people on foot. Macho for men is the thing in Russia. Macho sex is to take the woman by the hand, push her on the bed, and make love to her, and then go back out and drink another drink. Women in Russia expect it.

[Kuna]

That's depressing  , what's below






from  letter posted sometime ago:

Sex with a Russian woman beyond about the third time is about like making love to a dead horse. They don't take part except to lay still and let it happen. I had several Russian women tell me that they lived with their husbands for 10 years without ever kissing them. They had the dead horse sex, but they never kissed their husbands in the process of sex. You may think that could happen in isolated cases, but I talked to enough Russian women and saw enough of them to tell you that it is normal. Kissing, you see, is showing affection and love, and that is not part of a Communist State. Of course, communism is dead, and the Russians hate communism, but it will be years before they understand that the fear of love is a communist thing.

Russian men are all macho. They all must be brave. Showing love for a woman is a weakness. They talk love, but they don't show it. Many Russian men are so brave (macho) that they don't look both ways when crossing the street. Looking isn't macho. Thus many get killed by cars. Of course, the men in the cars are macho too, thus they pretend they don't see the people on foot. Macho for men is the thing in Russia. Macho sex is to take the woman by the hand, push her on the bed, and make love to her, and then go back out and drink another drink. Women in Russia expect it.

I love some of these generalisations...  Actually it gives that statement too much credibility to call it a generalisation.

Who posted that Rock???

[El Rock]

See  the post  right before  or  3 post  back , Wiz , I think his name  is .
He got it from somewhere else

[Lily]

That's depressing  , what's below

from  letter posted sometime ago:

Sex with a Russian woman beyond about the third time is about like making love to a dead horse. They don't take part except to lay still and let it happen. I had several Russian women tell me that they lived with their husbands for 10 years without ever kissing them. They had the dead horse sex, but they never kissed their husbands in the process of sex. You may think that could happen in isolated cases, but I talked to enough Russian women and saw enough of them to tell you that it is normal. Kissing, you see, is showing affection and love, and that is not part of a Communist State. Of course, communism is dead, and the Russians hate communism, but it will be years before they understand that the fear of love is a communist thing.

Russian men are all macho. They all must be brave. Showing love for a woman is a weakness. They talk love, but they don't show it. Many Russian men are so brave (macho) that they don't look both ways when crossing the street. Looking isn't macho. Thus many get killed by cars. Of course, the men in the cars are macho too, thus they pretend they don't see the people on foot. Macho for men is the thing in Russia. Macho sex is to take the woman by the hand, push her on the bed, and make love to her, and then go back out and drink another drink. Women in Russia expect it.

it looks like the poor guy described in the 1st passage always picked up only the Rosa Klebb types in Russia   

well, unfortunately the male behaviour shown here is often true  and many women tolerate this 

[wiz]

KUNA

Here is the full letter and in my view he is not far away from the truth.

Enjoy reading:

                                RUSSIAN WOMEN
 
Do They Make Good Wives?

There are a number of agencies that will provide almost any American man with a female in Russia who wants to come to America. After a few letters and telephone conversations one is usually ready to bring the Russian lady to America. If all is OK, one often gets married within a month or two of the arrival of the lady in America (or a day or two). The cost of a round trip ticket (it is necessary to buy a round trip ticket) varies from about $1200 to $2500. The agency fee is in addition to this and can be as high as $5000, but is often as low as $500.

The various agencies are the fastest, but also the most expensive. There are also simply writing clubs where by you can write to any number of a list of ladies. You could also put your own ad in a Russian Newspaper. There are American advertising agencies that know how to do this. If you go to Russia you will be able to find a wife in a week or two as there are thousands of women who want to come to America. So I won't say much more about this end of it, since this letter is about Russian women.

I married two Russian women: We have only had free movement between Russia and America for about 5 years or so, so having married two Russian women was quite a trick, and not something I would do again.

To determine if Russian women will make good wives the first thing that one should look at is the Russian culture. One might think that any kind of up bringing can be over come. One often sees people from the ghettoes doing quite well in life, even when they were in the ghetto their entire childhood. However, I don't think this is true of Russian women. I believe that they will never over come their Russian up bringing. The basic reason for this is simply that they don't want to over come their up bringing, while those who come from the ghettoes usually want to change to get the better things in life that they desire. The Russian women think that the way they are is absolutely ideal, and it never occurs to them that there are better ways in life.

In 1992 I traveled to Russia where I met my first Russian wife. I spent several weeks in Moscow and traveled to a number of other Russian cities. I was invited to many Russian homes to eat and to stay the night. I was able to see the Russian  culture first hand. They were anxious to show me how they lived. The Russian people now love Americans more than any other nationality. No matter where I went I was welcome. In restaurants where there were lines, I was always taken to the head of the line, if they found out that I was American. When I had occasion to go to the doctor, I was taken beyond the line to a private room for treatment (no charge for treatment and medicine). It was fabulous treatment for an average American who had never been a celebrity.  I thought that maybe Russian wives might like me the same.

When I married my Russian wives it had never occurred to me to look at the differences in our cultures. Had I looked, I might not have been so impulsive. So let us look at the important cultural differences that will affect a marriage directly. In Russia it is unacceptable to show any kind of affection in public. Lovers do not hold hands in public. They do not put their arms around one another. Mothers and Fathers never hug or kiss their children except maybe on New Year's night. But this is not really the problem, the real problem is that they are taught never to show affection and emotion.

In Russia there is no such thing as double beds. Husbands and wives never sleep together. Not even one family out of a thousand has double beds. All sleep in separate single beds. Russian women have never even considered sleeping night after night with a husband.

You have no idea how deeply rooted these teachings and customs have become.  Russia is more like another planet than another country. No other country in the world are people taught to disregard affection and love like in Russia. For 80 years the communists controlled Russia. No one was safe. All were taught that they must tattle tale on one another about anything that was wrong. A wife could tell on her husband, if he wasn't doing something right. Quite often he would just never come home (he was shot). To lose a spouse in Russia wasn't the same as here. The government paid for everything. If the husband never comes home, so what, the wife still gets paid. Children were encourage to tattle tale on their parents. If they said something that was not acceptable to the KGB, the parent simply didn't come home (again, they were shot).

Love in Russia really became extinct. I know, we say love is a natural thing and anyone can fall in love. That may be true, but in a society that does not recognize love as valuable, one soon learns to take care of himself and to not get too close to anyone. One must be careful not to get to attached to someone, one day he might not return.

When the KGB was closed less than 10 years ago, the reporters were shown into the KGB building. In one large room in that building was a list of 10 million Russians that had been shot by the KGB. These people were simply listed as "Enemies of the State."  None were given a trial of any kind. The person at the local KGB office simply said, "Shoot this guy," and he was shot. It wasn't even a hearing. Someone tattled on his neighbor for any one of a hundred things and the local KGB shot him. The idea of course, was to make the society a better place, but it didn't work that way.

So how does this all affect Russian women. Well they are trained from birth to not show love and affection. They know that showing too much love could even result in being shot. To love someone who doesn't come home one evening can break your heart. Best not to love much at all. Russian women often talk about love, but unfortunately and sadly, they do not know what love is. They will certainly never demonstrate their love with kisses and hugs. They might for a few days, but never for any period of time. They don't even like kisses and hugs.

I met many Russian women in Russia. In fact, during my stay there I constantly had at least two Russian women with me and sometimes three.  They were easy to meet once they knew I was American. They were anxious to please.  They even asked me for sex. The idea behind all the attention and sex was that they wanted to come to America. The Russian woman that I finally brought back with me did just that. She pretended that she just couldn't resist me. She told me she wanted me and then went with me to my hotel room. Others did the same.

Sex with a Russian woman beyond about the third time is about like making love to a dead horse. They don't take part except to lay still and let it happen. I had several Russian women tell me that they lived with their husbands for 10 years without ever kissing them. They had the dead horse sex, but they never kissed their husbands in the process of sex. You may think that could happen in isolated cases, but I talked to enough Russian women and saw enough of them to tell you that it is normal. Kissing, you see, is showing affection and love, and that is not part of a Communist State. Of course, communism is dead, and the Russians hate communism, but it will be years before they understand that the fear of love is a communist thing.

Russian men are all macho. They all must be brave. Showing love for a woman is a weakness. They talk love, but they don't show it. Many Russian men are so brave (macho) that they don't look both ways when crossing the street. Looking isn't macho. Thus many get killed by cars. Of course, the men in the cars are macho too, thus they pretend they don't see the people on foot. Macho for men is the thing in Russia. Macho sex is to take the woman by the hand, push her on the bed, and make love to her, and then go back out and drink another drink. Women in Russia expect it.

Russian women think it is normal to not show love. Thus you will not be able to change them. They don't want to change. They want to remain the same. They know that kissing and hugs and other demonstrations of love are dangerous things. Of course, they will demonstrate affection at first. They even do that in Russia in courtship, to a small extent, but when the one week honey moon is over, don't expect kisses or hugs. As far as sex is concerned, they like it, and they want it. You are expected to climb on and do your thing as often as you like, but don't expect them to take part other than to do what they are told. If you are like 80% of the American men, that might be OK, but if you want a woman who shows love and affection during sex and who sometimes kisses you and even touches you, then don't try a Russian wife.

Look at Russia now. They are killing one another as I write this letter. Over 110,000,000 Russians have been killed by Russians in the last 80 years. Can you see how a country can be devoid of love. That much killing of one's own country men brings about men and women who show very little and can have very little love. For 150 years in America we have not killed one another on vast scales like Russia. The killing and the communist teaching simply changes the way one looks at and handles love.

Russian ladies are almost all very beautiful. The cold climate and the wet weather produces beautiful women. They are 99% all of the white race. They are not oriental. Russians drive on the right side of the road. Their light switches turn light on in the up position. Their school year is the same as ours. For what ever reason a greater percentage of their customs follow ours than most other countries in the world.

So do you want a Russian woman for a wife? It depends upon what you want. If you want a beautiful woman who is a good show piece then go for it. But if you are expecting any gratitude for your spending money and time then forget it. They believe that their husbands owe it all to them. The state gave them their money, it didn't come from their husbands. So they expected the husband to do all those other things. They will expect you to do everything and buy them everything and they will seldom, if ever say thanks. They never say please, or thanks. It makes them feel degraded to do such a thing.

You can train them to do say thanks, but never expect a kiss or a hug when you come home.

Any Russian woman who was brought up within the borders of Russia will be the way I have described here. I am sorry that all that killing and terrible things took place, and I feel sorry for all those people who will never know real love or even real affection. I feel sorry for all those children who never receive kisses from their parents, but feeling sorry would not make me marry another Russian woman. My life only become tolerable with both of my Russian wives when I quit trying to create any kind of love. As long as I furnished the shelter, food, clothing, TV, and other niceties everything was fine, but never ask for a kiss. She will prefer to sleep in a separate bed like her parents did and like all Russians do. Russian women will sleep with you if you insist, but all married people in Russia sleep in separate beds, and so if you marry a Russian woman, her parents slept in separate beds, so she will prefer separate beds.

A Russian woman will live with you, will take what you give her, will never say thanks unless you train her to and will show little affection, but will demonstrate no affection after the first two or three weeks. She will live taking everything you give only as a friend might, except the friend would show gratitude. You can have a very pleasant relationship if you are willing to have only a friendly relationship and are willing to finance her totally plus you can have sex, and in her own way she may even love you a little and she will even tell you so, but she will certainly never demonstrate it.

As far as my two Russian wives were concerned our sex was completely unacceptable. After the first three weeks, it was expected that when I wanted sex she would just lay their and I would do all the action. But although I never had a sexual problem my whole life, I could not for the life of me just make sex that way. I expected at least a few kisses during sex. When I wouldn't perform both wives asked me to sleep in another bed as they couldn't sleep with someone who didn't give them good sex. When I suggested a marriage counselor and sexual consultant the first wife flatly refused, and the second one agreed, but refused to accompany me on the day of the appointment. When I brought her literature back from the counselor, she refused to read it.

It is extremely unfortunate that sex is so repressed in Russia. When I was there many people told me that it was wrong to have sex when I was not married to a woman. They explained to me that any woman that came to my hotel room, even if she were single, was subject to being arrested and taken to jail. There are no judges or juries. There is only the local police. If someone calls and says that you are having sex in a hotel room and are not married the local police can come arrest you if they wish, and that's what has happened for the last 80 years. The police make their own decision on what to do with you. So you see, sex has been badly repressed in Russia. I assume that the communists were trying to keep the population down, but what ever the reason it does exist.

When you try to create a loving home with a Russian woman she feels that you put her at risk. She feels threatened. She feels that it is wrong. Somewhere in her subconscious mind she is afraid that to show you love will bring the wrath of the communists. She cannot tolerate it.  The fact that the communists no longer exist means nothing to her subconscious mind. She will become angry, upset, and impossible to live with. It is very sad that it is this way, but that's the way it is. The Russians are beginning to dig their way out of this situation, but at this time any American man who marries a Russian woman is probably biting off a great deal more than he can chew.

If one did marry a Russian woman he should have her agree to at least a year of counseling after the marriage. Russian women are like alcoholics, they will have to realize that something is wrong before they can be helped and I doubt that a Russian woman will ever realize that. In her mind there is too much at stake. It's cultures in direct conflict, yours and hers.

So now you know. Good luck.


The URL for this article is:

 

http://emf.net/~estephen/misc/usenet/russian.txt

[Jet]

Congratulations Wiz! That has to be the biggest load of horsesh!t I've ever read on the subject by a long margin!
In my admittedly limited experience, I've seen evidence to the contrary of that written in virtually every single paragraph.
I understand this was probably written 10 yrs back, but come on! You really believe this tripe? 

[KenC]

Got to agree with Jet here on all counts,
My experience is waaaay to the contrary.  My wife has been as warm, loving, daring, open, talented as any lover I have ever had.  If anything, I marvel at her lack of hang ups in this area.  She has the healthiest outlook on sex I have ever witnessed.
KenC

[Chelchov]

I agree with Jet on all counts.  It's a big load of horsesh!t! 

It appears that the writer in that article married prostitutes.  The way he described it is like what a prostitutes do, being a dead horse on bed and let guys do anything to her for money.       

Husband and Wife DO sleep together even during the Soviet time!  Just like some homes here in America, most flats have bed inside the couch in the living room.  Husband and wife sleep together in the living room.       

[Leslie]

This damaged guy repeatedly failed, became embittered and assumes his experience to be the general case...

Sorta like Maxx.  All FSU women are GCG's who will file DV charges at their  convenience...

People shape their own lives.  

These views are extreme - not the general situation!!

My own experience is that if you win the love of an FSU woman you will experience devotion not found in western women.  Piss one off and she will run over you like a dump truck...

With luck you can experience both the same morning  :hairraising:

[Gator]

Rock and Wiz,

You are dating the wrong women, or you need a better game (see BillyB post).

The most sexual woman that I have known in my long life is a FSUW.  She excelled in all parameters of measuring sexuality (intensity, duration, frequency, joy of giving and receiving, breadth of technique, enthusiasm, honesty and openness, sense of adventure, experimentation, depth of satisfaction, etc.).  

Not all FSUW are like this one magnificent woman, yet none are a dead horse.  

Before people try to surmise "whom", please recall that I have made three month-long trips to the FSU when not in a relationship.  And before someone calls me a sex tourist, I have not been intimate with many FSUW.  

I better stop here before I get into real trouble.

[jb]

Gotta agree with the other married guys here.  The man who wrote that bit of tripe has some screws that need to be tightened...

After 5 years married, my wife is still the same warm and affectionate woman I met 7 or 8 years ago.   

Like any relationship, if you make a bad choice, your marriage can go south in a short period of time.  I think much of how quickly the woman's ardor cools is directly linked to how fast her other agenda is fulfilled.  And I pity those who try to make a housewife out of a hooker.

Gator;

Remember, I lived and worked in the USSR for the better part of 2 winters, the girlfriends I dated in those days were not into casual sex either.  In most cases there simply was no opportunity for it.  They lived at home with parents, and I lived in hotels rooms where the floor matrons would have had a heart attack if I'd tried to bring a girl up to my room.  The best I got was some really heavy necking and petting sessions.  Few people here know what life in the USSR was like, or even care what makes these woman into what they are today.   

Based upon what little I have experienced, both at home and in the CCCP, there is little to say regarding a cultural difference (sexually) between RWs and their AW sisters.   I think a woman decides if she is going to be sexually attracted to a man within minutes of meeting him, after that it is not a question of "if", merely a question of "when", given the opportunity of time and location.  I also think when women meet a man they make other subconscious judgements besides sexuality, he may be apprised as marriage material, or he may be judged to be merely friend material, or she may not like him at all.  That is why I've said a man must let nature take it's course when meeting FSUW, they will give a man the necessary clues very quickly, if she likes a man, he will know without doubt how she feels.  Maybe not within hours, but certainly within days.  If she has no interest in him she will be brutally cold, yet somehow still polite about the brush off,,, even then many men will not be able to read the message.

[Admin]

I love some of these generalisations...  Actually it gives that statement too much credibility to call it a generalisation.

Who posted that Rock???

I posted the contents of the original posting some time ago. You can see it here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=987.0

This guy was a bit of a nutcase - as you can see.

- Dan

[I/O]

This characters ramblings have surfaced on almost every forum I have seen relating to the subject of Russian women.  He and his writings are about as far removed from reality as I have seen so far. You'd swear you were reading something P/A wrote.

I know but a fraction of what the married guys here know but for the freshmen, this characters ramblings are bullsh!t of the highest order.  Sure the decent Russian women are not going to fall all over you in public, but handled the right way behind closed doors and oh man it's a whole new ball game and a nice one too at that.

FWIW, Au women are generally more conservative in this area than are USA women and I think the differences between these two groups and Russian women are as fire and water.  Totally different.  It seems to me they capitalise on being a woman instead of trying to castigate 50% of the species because they are not. 

I/O

[IAmZon]

The intent of my question was to probe cultural and social mores, and outlook on sex - not how a particular man; or a particular woman IS sexually ... that is a slippery slope that would yield what valueable result?

I/O highlights the issue of "role confusion" in the US.  That certainly has impacted sexual relations in the US

ScottinCrimea and Shadow confirmed my suspicions - a more liberal and less restrictive outlook.  Wile JB echos other's observations that discount promiscuity and suggest a much more naive and guarded outlook. 

I suspect again a Latin influence in the South ... a more stoic persona up North.  These are most GREAT generalizations.

For me, I will spend another week in the happy company.  I will try not to act silly ... be myself ... and observe.

[KenC]

Rivardco,
The "selectivity" of the particular fsu woman is based upon her own morals, which vary greatly, but as many here have said before, when a RW is "in" to you, you will know it.  I can attest to the fact thet the northern women are not cold.  In speaking with the many guys I have met through the years from forums like RWD, I can say that if a woman from the fsu is really in to you, she will rock your world, sexually speaking.  As I said up thread, RW seem to take great pride in satisfying their men.
KenC

[IAmZon]

KenC -

The expression on show face - on your avatar - says it ALL:)