Cultural Differences in Sexuality

[wiz]

Blah Blah Blah

and too much discarding of this chaps comments, without anybody disputing any of the points made.

Jet said is all horseshit and everybody jumped on the bandwagon, with out hesitation.

Married men obviously have the exceptions as wives but they have not said anything about the women they met before finding the right one.

I am not trying to be controversial but I would expected at least Gator to refute all his points in a correct analysis. Sorry Gator but I do not mingle with the upper echelon of the Russian society like you do and the most beautiful and intelligent women. I keep company with ordinary people.

Never mind some people they think he is talking a lot of rubbish, I do not agreed with them, but I rather go to sleep instead of deluting myself.

In another post Gator tried to refute all my comments about RW and UW and in reality at the end of the day we had very small differences of opinion.

I suggest you read the post again, and try to see what he is talking about and not put your heads in the sand!

JB I do not believe you had so much limited experience in 2 years living there!

[Nat]

Nat, I have had the opposite experience that you are describing.  I have found that the more educated and sophisticated in general the woman is, the more quickly they will engage in casual sex.  Yes, as you say, such women are more confident, and this allows them to approach sexual encounters in a more mature way and in an equal partnership with the man.  They do not feel exploited because they desire pleasure themselves and know how to achieve it without the need to feel that it is going to lead to something more permanent.

The less educated and sophisticated women I have been with are always worrying about who is going to try to get in their panties and they don't seem to think of sexual encounters as something that they can enjoy just as much as the man.  Perhaps because they are less economically successful, they are always thinking that they should be able to get something more than just pleasure out of a relationship.

You’re right of course. There are confident and educated women, who have sex when they feel like it without being in a relationship (though I’d say there’s not many of them in our country because former USSR moral was quite strict about that, so the older a woman is, the bigger is chance that she doesn’t share such views on life). But they are independent feminists, and men here don’t seem to love feminists much Besides, well, may be I forgot to tell about level of culture, which also matters. If the level of person’s culture is high enough, she or he (it applies both on women and men) needs more than just casual sex with anybody to feel satisfied. You know, it’s like children who can read only comics and be happy. But when they get wiser they get bored with just comics and are looking for books which have more interesting things inside them

[catzenmouse]

If you try hard enough you can find evidence for or against anything said in that letter. So what? I can say the same things about women from any country. Or men for that matter.

What I am more concerned about Wiz is that for the past week or so you seem to have a very negative, even bitter, slant to your posts. I do understand that your ordeal with Sofia would leave you with a bad taste in your mouth and a negative attitude towards relationships in general but perhaps that is the telling factor to let you know that it is time to take a step back and stop for a little while. Give yourself time to release this negative emotions and become yourself again.

 All just an opinion and FWIW,

Ken

[Bruno]

What I am more concerned about Wiz is that for the past week or so you seem to have a very negative, even bitter, slant to your posts.

You have the courage to say what i think !!!

Not a easy periode for Wiz... but once he will find the next lady, he wil close the previous chapter...

[Gator]

Wiz,

Sorry Gator but I do not mingle with the upper echelon of the Russian society like you do

Huh?  There are three upper echelons of the Russian society:   the politically connected, the ultra wealthy, and the intelligentsia.   Such people would not give me the time of the day.   

Should we write a few and ask them to contribute to this thread about sex in the FSU? 
   

[wiz]

If you try hard enough you can find evidence for or against anything said in that letter. So what? I can say the same things about women from any country. Or men for that matter.

What I am more concerned about Wiz is that for the past week or so you seem to have a very negative, even bitter, slant to your posts. I do understand that your ordeal with Sofia would leave you with a bad taste in your mouth and a negative attitude towards relationships in general but perhaps that is the telling factor to let you know that it is time to take a step back and stop for a little while. Give yourself time to release this negative emotions and become yourself again.

 All just an opinion and FWIW,

Ken

Ken

I feel very relaxed regarding the end of my relationship with Sofia. I must admit I am a little tired because of my flu and I have a job to finish......and can't see the end of it for this weekend. No I do not regret anything I did and happened with Sofia as I had the chance to learn a lot of things about Russia, its people and culture.

Of course I will go back because I like the place. It is such a shamples, poor buggars they only want the same as us, but Russia also draws me back not only of its  women but also for its variety and interesting places to vist. As about me I only have to meet the right woman and when that happen I will know it!

My problem and negative attitude is because of what I see on the board. I just don't find it very interesting to read any more because of this bitting around the bush coming from your end of the pond. Too much philosophising and not reality. Too much hot air and no substance.

Thank God Viking came back and posted a very interesting report from Kiev. The board was very interesting when Groov and many other were posting lively reports and impressions.

I see that JB has not posted many posts lately and I find his comments very interesting, Kuna is in Love and not time to post a lot, Groov is learning to live with a Russian woman and probably is eating the honey, Lesley is busy with his family, KenC is continuing bragging about his beautiful woman, Mir as usual writes only short liners, Gator in knit picking but nothing special and so on and so on.

In my view the board is becoming the Club of boring old farts.

Yes with my upfront brutal comments tried to stimulate lively discussions but I see nothing.

So back to work to finish my job and as from Monday I will start my searches again, That will be more interesting.

Have a nice weekend all of you. 

[Maxx2]

This damaged guy repeatedly failed, became embittered and assumes his experience to be the general case...

Sorta like Maxx.  All FSU women are GCG's who will file DV charges at their  convenience...

When did the Fock did I ever say that Leslie???  I said and William3rd agreed with me that 90% (or so) will file an abuse petition if their marriage is failing and they haven't gotten there perminent residency cards yet. Most wait this conditional residency time out. Many stay in their marriages afterwards. Many are happily married. But I never said "ALL FSU women are GCG's". You must be drunk. After you sober up you can write me an apology.


Maxx

[Leslie]

Good Morning Maxx,

Well I was stone cold sober when I made that comment.  I have been waiting for 3 or 4 years for you to post a POSITIVE story.  You know Maxx visits FSU meets wonderful lady and they both live happily ever after (eventually)  but it has not happened yet and I reckon it never will.  You are obsessed with the dark side because of what happened to you with Elvira.  You can't put it behind you and make a fresh, positive start.  That is why I made that analogy. 

Actually I have always encouraged you in this endeavour.  I hope your journey has a happy ending.

[Jet]

In my view the board is becoming the Club of boring old farts.

Yes with my upfront brutal comments tried to stimulate lively discussions but I see nothing.

Sorry to disappoint Wiz, if you prefer, I guess I could template the post and dismantle it line by line. It just seems like an awful lot of work to merely reveal the obvious. :noidea:

As far as being "the Club of boring old farts", all message forums run in cycles, no matter what the topic, it can't be all interesting and exciting all the time. There will always be that ebb and flood like the tides. As newer members get over their "internet addiction" they start to devote more time to real life and less time to the board. Ever wonder where some of the more prolific posters find the time to comment on every thread and spend 12-14 hours per day on the board? I have! I can't do it or I'd never get anything done in the real world!

You have a nice weekend too 

[jb]

wiz,

I too saw your post for what it was and decided not to rise like a trout to the bait. 

While I admire that you are not into the very young girls and wanted a mate a bit more age appropriate, I did wonder about Sophia's behavior, calm and affectionate one minute and off the wall and argumentative the next.  I wondered as you were writing the story if perhaps she were not menopausal, considering her age I would not be surprised.

That you had a bad experience may have turned you off towards Russians, but I assure you that you won't find a pot of gold at the other end of the rainbow in Ukraine either.  There ain't, IMHO, 2 kopecks difference between the two peoples.

Welcome to the Club of Boring Old Farts.

[wiz]

JB

I don’t think is the case (menopausal) but what I have written on my own post “Dilemma”.
I said before that I had another G/F similar 26 years ago and have seen the film. I thought Sofia was not that bad like the first one and her insecurity and jealousy was manageable but at the end I had to give up, because I could not sleep with one eye open and at this stage of my life I don’t need a Drama Queen. I have to admit that I do miss her …. but we are better off apart. For now I have to concentrate at my work and then after this break I will have to start again. Look what happened with Viking after 2 years.

Now I come to the conclusion that I prefer calm waters and thank you for the “Welcome to the Club of Boring Old Farts.”

In my previous post I said:

Of course I will go back because I like the place. It is such a shambles, poor bug gars they only want to be the same as us, but Russia also draws me back not only for its  women but also for its variety and interesting places to visit.

Have a look at the small selection of photos from the Red square. How could I miss and not visit such a place?

As about me I only have to meet the right woman and when that happens I will know it! No I do not loose heart!
 

[Maxx2]

Good Morning Maxx,

Well I was stone cold sober when I made that comment.  I have been waiting for 3 or 4 years for you to post a POSITIVE story.  You know Maxx visits FSU meets wonderful lady and they both live happily ever after (eventually)  but it has not happened yet and I reckon it never will.  You are obsessed with the dark side because of what happened to you with Elvira.  You can't put it behind you and make a fresh, positive start.  That is why I made that analogy. 

Actually I have always encouraged you in this endeavour.  I hope your journey has a happy ending.

You couldn't begin to imagine what I am up to and what I have done and what I am currently doing. Thanks for your wish of good luck

Maxx

[jb]

wiz,

I have many pictures of Red Square in my collection. I've been to Moscow many times. While you were there did you venture behind those Kremlin walls to visit the Damond Fund or the Armory?   That alone is worth the trip to Moscow.

I'll admit that as I age in this process, I begin to judge Western men in their fairness and balanced attitude towards Russians.  If I see a rabid rant on how bad Russians are, or some love sick cow extolling the virtues of Ukrainian women, I tend to pack up my kit and walk away.  Life is too short for such nonsense.

[wiz]

wiz,

I have many pictures of Red Square in my collection. I've been to Moscow many times. While you were there did you venture behind those Kremlin walls to visit the Damond Fund or the Armory?   That alone is worth the trip to Moscow.

I'll admit that as I age in this process, I begin to judge Western men in their fairness and balanced attitude towards Russians.  If I see a rabid rant on how bad Russians are, or some love sick cow extolling the virtues of Ukrainian women, I tend to pack up my kit and walk away.  Life is too short for such nonsense.

Unfortunately I was not able to visit the Damond fund because of time limitations. I was there only for a day and I had little time to go around. In the evening I went back to Sterlitamak. I will make sure in my next trip to Moscow to visit the place. Thank you for the advice.

Ok I know I am guilty of provocation (.. you picked the purpose of that post) but in general I try to see and comment objectively about any place, people or country I visit. I have to admit that my views are influenced by my many years working in the travel industry so many times you will noticed a slant of comparisons of this type with other countries. In my comments I always express my very personal experiences and as much as possible try not to generalize, but I am only a human and yes I make mistakes.

[Gator]

Wiz,

I stay away from the Board for a day and now read that my fellow RWD members and I are a bunch of "old farts".  Personally, I consider myself vintage flatulence.

And I did read more of the letter that you cited.  This man describes the harsh conditions of the Soviet society that everyone here knows, and he uses that to make some sweeping conclusions.  Yes the Russian culture is different from a Latino culture with much reduced PDA, yet that does substantiate “dead horses”. 

I have my explanation.  FACT:  This man said all the RW were dead horses.   FACT: A sexually aroused adult female will not lie still.  OBVIOUS CONCLUSION:  This man was incapable of arousing a female.  The reasons could be many, and I would guess from the tone of his letter he did not understand that the emotional needs of a woman are just as important as physical techniques, and perhaps he was clumsy with the latter as well. 

All human beings are hardwired for love.  While a RW may be more cautious about giving her love, and is not as warm and lively in public as a Latino, she will express love amply, particularly in bed.

[Gator]

Wiz,

Different subject.

JB may be onto something about your Sofia.  If Sofia is not yet menopausal, by ridding yourself of her, you have avoided a future unimaginable nightmare.  Personally I think she is fairly far along on the personality disorder continuum, perhaps bipolar. 

The key point is that spending so much time with such a woman has an effect, and it is not good.

My own story.  I was married 25 years to a woman with clinical depression.  She claimed I was also depressed.  In an effort to save the marriage, I too saw a psychiatrist, and he reluctantly prescribed some anti-depressant meds.  After two months of that treatment, which made me into a silly zombie, he informed me that I was not depressed, but had the symptoms of someone who was married to a depressed spouse.  The two sets of symptoms overlap in some key areas. He correctly said the best thing for me is to let her go.

Are you still in your past life with Sofia, or have you moved on?  From reading your “Dilemma”, it seems to me that you could learn something from the Russians.  Russians have this amazing capacity to forget the past almost immediately and to move on.   In Russian words, “past is past”. 

[El Rock]

Wiz,





My own story.  I was married 25 years to a woman with clinical depression.  She claimed I was also depressed.  In an effort to save the marriage, I too saw a psychiatrist, and he reluctantly prescribed some anti-depressant meds.  After two months of that treatment, which made me into a silly zombie, he informed me that I was not depressed, but had the symptoms of someone who was married to a depressed spouse.  The two sets of symptoms overlap in some key areas. He correctly said the best thing for me is to let her go.

As the saying  goes ,
 "you can  be only as happy or sad  as your spouse "

[wiz]

Wiz,

I stay away from the Board for a day and now read that my fellow RWD members and I are a bunch of "old farts".  Personally, I consider myself vintage flatulence.

Don't worry as JB made sure I got a good welcome to the club too!

Personally I consider myself a "Good Vintage wine which matures well in taste and in Value"

And I did read more of the letter that you cited.  This man describes the harsh conditions of the Soviet society that everyone here knows, and he uses that to make some sweeping conclusions.  Yes the Russian culture is different from a Latino culture with much reduced PDA, yet that does substantiate “dead horses”. 

I have my explanation.  FACT:  This man said all the RW were dead horses.   FACT: A sexually aroused adult female will not lie still.  OBVIOUS CONCLUSION:  This man was incapable of arousing a female.  The reasons could be many, and I would guess from the tone of his letter he did not understand that the emotional needs of a woman are just as important as physical techniques, and perhaps he was clumsy with the latter as well. 

All human beings are hardwired for love.  While a RW may be more cautious about giving her love, and is not as warm and lively in public as a Latino, she will express love amply, particularly in bed.

A car is good and responds well on the road if it is driven by a well experienced driver. I probably can drive an F1 car but would I be as good as Nicky Laouda?
Somehow I don't think so, and of course I will blame the car for my innexperience!

I expect you will agree that the chap made of course some other valid points. If we start nit picking through his letter we will find many truths and we should not dismiss his letter out of hand.

One small example is that RW do not publicly demonstrate their affection to their loved one, which I found to be true.

As about the sex..... how you expect the majority of Russians to have an interesting varied good sex life, when most of them live in a 2 room flat and everybody, family and the whole block of flats can hear your actions?

Actually, when I was in Russia, I found  very amusing every night hearing some action going on on the block!..

Me and my star pupil had no big problems because we were able to be alone most of the nights and we did not care if the whole block was listening!

[wiz]

Gator

Different subject.

JB may be onto something about your Sofia.  If Sofia is not yet menopausal, by ridding yourself of her, you have avoided a future unimaginable nightmare.  Personally I think she is fairly far along on the personality disorder continuum, perhaps bipolar. 

I do not think any of the above applies for Sofia, in my view. She is a Tatar and a Muslim and our cultures are diametrically opposed. Now she is as good as Gold…….. on the phone but still very entrenched with her ideas which do not match or come anywhere near to my westernized views and actions. I have told her many times that if she wants to come and live in UK she will have to adjust herself to our culture otherwise she will not fit here easily. For example, what we consider normal behaviour in a social scene, talking to other women, she finds it offensive.

The key point is that spending so much time with such a woman has an effect, and it is not good.

My own story.  I was married 25 years to a woman with clinical depression.  She claimed I was also depressed.  In an effort to save the marriage, I too saw a psychiatrist, and he reluctantly prescribed some anti-depressant meds.  After two months of that treatment, which made me into a silly zombie, he informed me that I was not depressed, but had the symptoms of someone who was married to a depressed spouse.  The two sets of symptoms overlap in some key areas. He correctly said the best thing for me is to let her go.

Are you still in your past life with Sofia, or have you moved on?  From reading your “Dilemma”, it seems to me that you could learn something from the Russians.  Russians have this amazing capacity to forget the past almost immediately and to move on.   In Russian words, “past is past”.

I am in neutral and limbo position at the moment and occupy myself with my work. I do not think I can act like Russians (Sofia acts like that) and I must let the dust to settle first before I can move on. Only time can tell and I have plenty of it!

You are right when you say that spending a lot of time with Sofia had an affect on me. My problem is that Sofia had 9 out of 10 excellent qualities, for me, but the last 1/10 destroyed everything and that is what I can not accept easily.

I know that soon I will overcome this situation.

[Kuna]

You are right when you say that spending a lot of time with Sofia had an affect on me. My problem is that Sofia had 9 out of 10 excellent qualities, for me, but the last 1/10 destroyed everything and that is what I can not accept easily.

wiz,

This is an interesting comment because it's something I went through for four long and difficult years in a relationship I call my "Four Year Fling".  Deep down I knew it was going nowhere.

Ultimately I decided that no matter how much good there was I wanted a relationship with "less bad".  Inside of that relationship both the good times and the bad times were "incredible" - and I didn't want incredible bad times.

When in a relationship the good times are always great... it's what we live for... but if the bad times are so bad they leave a lasting imprint on our happiness then then relationship doesn't fulfill on my expectations.

You're right about letting the dust settle.  It'll take you some time but you know there is someone infinitely better out there for you.  When you find her it's important not to let the shadow of Sofia effect your enjoyment of a new relationship so time now will help you get ready for "the real thing".

You know we wish you well in your search.  You deserve LESS BAD RATHER THAN MORE GOOD!

Kuna

[wiz]

Kuna

When in a relationship the good times are always great... it's what we live for... but if the bad times are so bad they leave a lasting imprint on our happiness then the relationship doesn't fulfill on our expectations.

Totally agreed with this statement and me trying to reconcile the 1/10 bad part of my relationship with Sofia became mission impossible.

Let me expand a little about my previous comments regarding our diametrically opposed cultural attitudes between me and Sofia. Back in September when I made the decision to accept Sofia, her son and Babouska as part of the package it is obvious that the family, including my own children and grandchildren, was top of my consideration and always would be the no 1 priority, as a precondition and matter of fact. Sofia never understood that the family’s well been was a precondition for me and was suspect of any actions of mine with other people. I can not help the fact that I am a sociable person and have humanitarian attitude towards other people. In my last post on Dilemma I said:

With my little knowledge of this society, which accepts violence as a normal thing and does nothing about it, the uncaring, unemotional nature of its people with no compassion for fellow people in trouble, unruly and many times nasty behaviour, I don’t think I would like to be part of it!

Sofia is not a bad person, but her attitude, behaviour social skills and actions in my view belong to the dark ages and will be difficult to fit in our socially open environment in our Western society and that is what caused most of our arguments and unhappy times.

Before I went to Sterlitamak to meet her for first time I met her cousin and asked her advice on how to behave, when down there and not offend Sofia or her relatives.

Here are some small examples to give you an idea what I had to content.

Following her cousin’s advice regarding young children when I was at the airport I bought some sweets which where in a special offer, buy 3 and pay for 2, to have with me. Of course I bought some chocks especially for her son and of course I had other little presents.

When I met one of her friends who has a nice looking daughter of 14 yrs old I offered to her daughter one of these sweet boxes of the special offer. Sofia did not like that and was offended because I gave the same (expensive in her view) present and told me that I do not think her son as the most important person but other people are more important……blah blah.
BTW of course she forgot conveniently the other expensive presents I brought for her son!
 
That young girl won the first place in her class for English so in our restaurant meeting I made the suggestion to her mother, why not try and explore the possibility of cultural exchange and sponsorship by some foreign charity organization, without of course offering to put my hand into my pocket! Sofia got offended because I never thought about her son and always try to help other people and forget or do nothing good for her son!

You must also not forget the episode with the flower girl…..of 22 yrs old who said hello to me and Sofia went of her rocker because by saying hello to her I wanted to shag the young girl……….blah blah.

When I met her son I became very close to him by showing him attention, affection and treating him as an adult. Her son of course loved my attention and affection and was delighted to see me every time and I never had problems with him listening to my advice and doing the right thing as he was asked without any hesitation. My approach toward him was diametrically opposed to Sofia’s approach, which was one of not showing him affection, NEVER KISSED  HIM before, until I started having a go on her and asking to change the Army Major behaviour towards her son. Of course she loves her son but her way of showing her feelings to him is to give him money, where I did not have to raise my voice or bribe him. Just showed him attention and affection and treated him as an adult and intelligent person, because he is very clever. Unfortunately Sofia can not see that and when I was leaving her house the last few times the boy gave me a huge hug and kisses and if you remember the last time he burst to tears at the front door.

Now as you can see there is a big gulf between us which I have tried hard to reconcile, find the middle ground etc but I failed miserably because of Sofia’s dark ages attitudes and I chose to finish our relationship.

Of course now with hind insight I can make better judgment and leave as I said the dust to settle. No I don't want to start anything on the rebound and have another dissaster in my hands. Yes I do talk to Sofia daily but by doing so, is not necessary will make me to change my decision.

Sofia, after my departure from Sterlitamak on the 10 March became very depressed. She admitted that when she started talking to me again her mood changed and became very happy and everything in her life down there is much easier to deal with.

[Gator]

Wiz,

You are writing too much about Sofia. And now calling daily.  I am beginning to wonder who is the crazy one.

You should forget Sofia. 

I have.  

[ScottinCrimea]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 :selfharm:

[wiz]

Wiz,

You are writing too much about Sofia. And now calling daily.  I am beginning to wonder who is the crazy one.

You should forget Sofia. 

I have.  

Don't worry and I know what I am doing. I only answered certain suggestions by you and JB regarding her personality. As they say I get everything off my chest and soon will be out of my mind.

BTW today I met an old friend of mine in London from Kiev, a woman of over 50 and we discussed that letter about Russian women.


I was very surprised to hear her telling me that the chap in very accurate with the majority of his comments. She went on to tell me that even today these attitudes prevail still in Ukraine and of course in Russia. She has lived in many places in Russia and also for the past 20 years in Kiev. She readily admitted that Slavic women are more jealous than other western women and she has been in UK many many times for long periods.

Scottin

I am very sane and I have not lost my marbles. I suggest you read some of your old comments on Dilemma and you will see that I am not following your own path.

A period of relaxation is necessary before I start again.

[El Rock]

I was very surprised to hear her telling me that the chap in very accurate with the majority of his comments. 

What comments , a letter??