'Code of Conduct' for Men....

[LEGAL]

There are many literature about ethics and morals in the World. Do you really think that 45 y.o. sex tourist after reading 'Code of Conduct' for Men will becomes deeply moral person and going in Russia or other country he will visit exclusively musems? Do you really think that 'Code of Conduct' for Men can fill in the gaps in man's breeding?

If you talk about 'Code of Conduct' for Men on this board - what to write and what not to write, before you should delete these topics:

Cultural Differences in Sexuality
Sex with FSU women
Sex slave from Russia
GREAT SEX in the FSU
Summer Sex Tourism in Kiev

Because according AD's opinion the word "sex" that is next to words "Russian woman" undermines Russian women'  reputation and image. You should "clean" all topics where you use words "I kiss her", "I hug her", "we go to bed" and so on because this words give a food for somebody's imagination and again undermines Russian women'  reputation and image.
You should never write about how to attract, "catch" and dating Russian woman because according AD's opinion it is instructions for sex tourists and  Casanovas- beginners "How to put a Russian woman in your bed"

Olga.

[Admin]

There are many literature about ethics and morals in the World. Do you really think that 45 y.o. sex tourist after reading 'Code of Conduct' for Men will becomes deeply moral person and going in Russia or other country he will visit exclusively musems? Do you really think that 'Code of Conduct' for Men can fill in the gaps in man's breeding?

If you talk about 'Code of Conduct' for Men on this board - what to write and what not to write, before you should delete these topics:

Cultural Differences in Sexuality
Sex with FSU women
Sex slave from Russia
GREAT SEX in the FSU
Summer Sex Tourism in Kiev

Because according AD's opinion the word "sex" that is next to words "Russian woman" undermines Russian women'  reputation and image. You should "clean" all topics where you use words "I kiss her", "I hug her", "we go to bed" and so on because this words give a food for somebody's imagination and again undermines Russian women'  reputation and image.
You should never write about how to attract, "catch" and dating Russian woman because according AD's opinion it is instructions for sex tourists and  Casanovas- beginners "How to put a Russian woman in your bed"

Olga.

Olga,

RWD is not Antidate - and never will be. They understand that.

IMO, it is perfectly acceptable to work to achieve a thorough understanding of other's needs/desires/fears/etc. Indeed, a large part of coming to that understanding will be identification where there is fundamental disagreement. Disagreement does NOT necessarily mean the two sides must then work to annihilate one another. It is entirely possible that, once common ground is identified (I think in terms of Venn Diagrams), that the overlapping areas in common can be made to grow over time.

Just my take on things.

- Dan

[LEGAL]

Olga,

RWD is not Antidate - and never will be. They understand that.


- Dan

IMO they dictate their will and blackmail entering members of RWD in blacklist.

Olga.

[WmGO]

I think part of the resistance to actually stating some "guidelines" is that it comes so closely on the heals of the AD Bill lynching.

Also, as some have said, most ethical rules are common sense. And those without common sense or who have no morals are not going to read them and just all of a sudden change their character and follow them.

However, I think that having some basic written ethical outlines at least is good for the "industry" AND RW forums AND demonstrates to the world that their really are good and normal people involved in FSUW relationships and FSU travelings that have and strive for certain ethical standards of conduct and behavior.

I think that with respect to the list of items that Fiorella posted we could all agree that these are things that no man should do. Bill listed some things that we can all agree that no man should do. We can also agree on some items that no woman should do. I am referring to clear black and white things, not grey areas, and especially non areas like the not too swift suggestion that WM visiting more than one lady is unethical (that is just about purely dumb). In other words, keep it short and simple and leave out all the bull. I don't think that a "committee" needs to be involved at all  to do this.  

As stated, perhaps nerves and feelings are too raw right now to move forward on this, but there is already a good working framework of eithical guidelings posted in thread.

[Admin]

They dictate their will and blackmail entering members of RWD in blacklist.

Olga.

Olga,

They do NOT dictate anything here. Their ONLY influence is in the power each RWD member gives them by altering their behaviors.

My hope, and vision, is that we (RWD and Antidate) will be able to resolve differences amicably in the future - without all the drama we have seen on display this past week.

There is a school of psychological thought known as REBT (Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy), pretty much developed by a famous, and still living, psychologist named Albert Ellis. It is pretty involved, but one of the techniques is to assess the REAL impact of a perceived adversity. So let's take an AD example (hypothetical):

* Let's say that AD places someone called 'Joe' on their Blacklist.
* Let's further say that they write horrible things about Joe - it does not matter if it is true for purposes of this exercise.
* Let's then ask ourselves - "What is the impact/consequence of AD's blacklisting?" Will it reduce Joe's ability to find a wife? Quantify that - if the entire pool is 10,000 women, will it reduce it by 100? 1000? 5000?
* If it reduces Joe's 'pool' of possible wives by ?? - say 5,000 - what is the REAL consequence and how serious is THAT adversity? Is it as bad as, say ... someone stepping on your toe? With steel boots? With crampons? Remember, there is still an eligible pool of 5,000 women who might become Joe's wife.

The point of the exercise it to place into rational perspective the REAL harm of an encountered adversity.

My STRONG suspicion is that Antidate does NOT diminish the REAL odds of a guy finding a wife. Of course, they want to believe otherwise - and they are working aggressively to reach more FSU women so that they ARE more effective in getting the word out - but still, there will always be women who never hear of Antidate - and there will always be women who will not care what Antidate has to say - and there will always be women who are interested about the WORST offenders, but will listen to reason when contact with the man is actually made.

In other words - let's not all get worked-up into some kind of tizzy over something that will have extremely little REAL impact.

Just my take on things - FWIW

- Dan

[groovlstk]

I'm starting to see that main problem with this code is one of perception. There is a huge gap in what purpose it should serve, and if what I've seen here is any evidence, "n'er the twain shall meet."

Kvinna and Fiorella have some very legitimate gripes: the married guys who bed young Russian girls with false promises of marriage, the arbitrary blacklists and self-professed scamfighters like (less than) Honest Jim, the guys who con girls into sending nude photos with the promise of serious relations, etc.

Problem is, where are these guys' posts on RWD?

Answer: they don't post here; it's possible they lurk and grab logistical stuff from our TRs and such, but a few hours of reading and they know damn well that if they revealed their agenda they'd be hogtied, drawn, quartered, neutered, spayed, de-balled, hobbled, gutted, and sent home with a wedgie in due time. Just look at Albert... he's the closest thing we have to a sex tourist, and he has to preface all his posts by pre-emptively calling anyone who disagrees with him a "homo" because he damn well knows there are many here who will hold up a mirror to his face anytime he posts.

The kind of men that the AD women most despise are moving targets. They don't convene on discussion boards to share tips on how to lie; they don't write trip reports and post them publicly--they're smart enough to know that it's in their own interest to operate underneath the radar lest they suddenly find themselves deserving targets of groups like Antidate.

I don't mean to drag Tall Bill into the spotlight again, but it seems to me the AD women bash men like Bill because the real SOBs are flying under the radar while Bill is front and center. He's not a sex tourist but in the absence of other targets, he'll have to do. He has a few things in common with the sex tourists--he's interested in Russian women, he's travelled to Russia, heck he even bought along condoms.

Rage is a funny thing. When its real target proves slippery, the next closest target will often suffice.

Anyway, back on topic. It seems to me that this "code" could be useful to guys who are just starting out if it included items about simple etiquette and behavior. But if you include stuff like "don't lie about your age" or "if you're married, tell her" this entire list becomes a simple PR exercise with no real value.

[LEGAL]

Olga,

They do NOT dictate anything here. Their ONLY influence is in the power each RWD member gives them by altering their behaviors.

What is it - "If you don't remove photos you will be in black list" Is it ultimatum or blackmail? Photos of girls were removed but his name and photo still in black list as trip reporter or  using their language триппер-репортер -  gonorrhoea reporter.

Why you, Dan, as many other guys kept silence while Bill and Wiz were posting their reports with photos?

We have began to talk about 'Code of Conduct' for Men when our tail was pinched 

Olga.

 
 

[ScottinCrimea]

  It seems like the same people here who consistently give out bad advice are the same ones who are against this project.  Maybe they're afraid that for them it will look more like a mirror than a guideline

I threw this out to try to induce those opposed to do a little introspection and the others to look at who specifically is opposed to this idea and why.  Note that I didn't name anyone.  I knew if I just asked them to do this I would be ignored.  It's like a psychological trick I used to play on my kids to get them to read something they didn't want to read.  I would tell them, "Read this, but just ignore all the bad words".  Of course they would read it intently, searching for the bad words when in fact there weren't any.  To answer your question directly, Legal, I have respect for your opinions and the majority of those who have come out in opposition to this idea even though we don't agree on this particular subject.  The one caveat is that when you, jb, I/O, etc. let your emotions get the best of you I tend to take things with more of a grain of salt.

[Bruno]

Because according AD's opinion the word "sex" that is next to words "Russian woman" undermines Russian women'  reputation and image.

For me, sex is related to "love", a feeling that two human share for each other...

It seem that Wikipedia agree with me :

Romantic love is seen as a deep, ineffable feeling of intense and tender attraction shared in passionate or intimate attraction and intimate interpersonal and sexual relationships

Romantic love is a form of love that is often regarded as different from mere needs driven by sexual desire, or lust. Romantic love generally involves a mix of emotional and sexual desire, as opposed to Platonic love. There is often, initially, more emphasis on the emotions than on physical pleasure.

It think that us, Western men, are reasonable to wish sex with the partner choosen for share our live... it is something natural...

If AD ladies are so again sex, why they wish babies, why they wish husband, etc... If they don't know that sex is something normal in a relationship, it maybe explain why the population is dropping in Russia... 

On the other side, is the practice of antidate very different from some antiscam site who list ladies like scammer because the symbol $$$ is in her letter...

When i was agency owner, i have know so case... a lady listed because in one of her e-mail send to a guy she have wrote : " i only need 50$ month, can you send it?"... she have wish register on my site and since i make a check for all of them, i have find her on a antiscam site... i have not yet directly cry "guilty" but ask what have happen... She have forward all the e-mail... Story was simple... She was with computer home, only a slow modem... the guy was wishing video chat with her... she explain that she cannot pay the ADSL needed for the speed... the guy propose to help her... she say how much she need... he send the money... at these time, no problem at all... later, the guy become a real jerk and she drop him... for reveange, he send the only one letter where she ask money, without explaining the context to the antiscam site...

Yep, it is wrong... and Antidate use similar practice... but why they cannot use the same weapons that use several western men... now, maybe they can make their system better... by example, inform the person who is spoken in a topic about it, for give him a chance to defend himself... myself, i have already use these system here, when someone accuse a other of something... if i find a way to contact, i inform about it...

So, related to the case who have start everything... it have be a good step to contact Bill and explain him what happen, for give him the opportunity to defend himself... in place of members here finding the topic on AD...

Second problem with AD... too much emotionaly charged... these emotions don't allow a correct analyse of fact  or evidence... the guy is guilty... only time is needed to find or construct trouble evidence...

At last, AD girls have difficult to admit when they are wrong... the Bill topic is a example... once it have become evident that Bill was not the sex maniac, they have begin seek after a replacement ( Tigerpaws, Wiz, Albert )... in so case, it was more appropriate from the administrator to close the topic and make a final note saying that evidence don't show that he is a sex tourist... From my own experience, RW have very difficult to reconize mistaken and ask forgiveness... they will find any other topic for counter attack, they need to have the last word... not sure that it can be changed, it seem to be a cultural thing...

MY GOD... sorry guys... i am  ... from "Code of conduct for men" to "Code of conduct for antiscam site/forum" ... but in some way, it can explain the "strong" reaction of the antidate girls in these topic...

[Kvinna]

trip reporter or  using their language триппер-репортер -  gonorrhoea reporter.
Olga.

wow what the spoiled mind

tripper
 tripper  сущ. Вебстер | фразы | g-sort
  презрит. экскурсант; турист
 http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?l1=2&l2=1&HL=2&EXT=0&s=tripper
look here and don't spread your poison

[timothe]

... So let's take an AD example (hypothetical):

* Let's say that AD places someone called 'Joe' on their Blacklist.
* Let's further say that they write horrible things about Joe - it does not matter if it is true for purposes of this exercise.
* Let's then ask ourselves - "What is the impact/consequence of AD's blacklisting?" Will it reduce Joe's ability to find a wife? Quantify that - if the entire pool is 10,000 women, will it reduce it by 100? 1000? 5000?
* If it reduces Joe's 'pool' of possible wives by ?? - say 5,000 - what is the REAL consequence and how serious is THAT adversity? Is it as bad as, say ... someone stepping on your toe? With steel boots? With crampons? Remember, there is still an eligible pool of 5,000 women who might become Joe's wife.

The point of the exercise it to place into rational perspective the REAL harm of an encountered adversity.

This is a flawed analogy, Dan.  

It is most likely that an FSUW would not look for a site like AD until after they had met the man and liked him.  Therefore, you are not talking about a pool that has been cut in half, but rather, the probability that the potential wife visits the site after they meet.  

For the man, the money has already been spent.  He has already made the trip and invested time, money, and emotions in a potential relationship.  

If said man is listed on the AD site without cause, then said listing could cost him a lot!

[Kvinna]

It is most likely that an FSUW would not look for a site like AD until after they had met the man and liked him.  Therefore, you are not talking about a pool that has been cut in half, but rather, the probability that the potential wife visits the site after they meet.  

what about the 1th TV-channel prime time with links on antidate?

[LEGAL]

wow what the spoiled mind

tripper
 tripper  сущ. Вебстер | фразы | g-sort
  презрит. экскурсант; турист
 http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?l1=2&l2=1&HL=2&EXT=0&s=tripper
look here and don't spread your poison

Kvinna, why you did not use word "tripper" instead of Russian word "триппер"?

Olga

[Kvinna]

Kvinna, why you did not use word "tripper" instead of Russian word "триппер"?

Olga

maybe you forget that but we use Cyrillic alphabet in Russia

[LEGAL]

maybe you forget that but we use Cyrillic alphabet in Russia

and you use Cyrillic alphabet for fruity-juicy stylistic nuance of a word.

Olga

[Kvinna]

and you use Cyrillic alphabet for fruity-juicy stylistic nuance of a word.

Olga

Шишков, прости, не знаю как перевести
old discussion about Russian language
but want to recall you, there are adopted words in any languge. So the word репортер is also originally not Russian
Maybe you have to read the Modern Russian Language text-book by Rosental?

[Fiorella]

I think this is a reasonable suggestion and one idea on how the "code" should be framed.  So then we call it the Code of Misconduct?

OK, now give us some secifics.
KenC

May be jus call it as recommendation of behaviour? I already posted on past pages some examples what things women don't accept and that they meet so often from western men.

I want to offer to make an experiment - to post a profile of "russian woman" on some of sites with russian brides and look what "she" will get. One man did that and he has been shoked.

[LEGAL]

There is one principal ethical rule for men and women - do not discuss intimate and private  details of other people moreover mentioning their real names and showing their photos in public.

Olga.
 

[Daveman]

Again, while not trying to create a firestorm... the underlying impetus for anger/frustration/dismay whatever for both Bill, and Wiz was one of disrespect due to a perceived invasion of "Privacy".  Why do you think the quotes and statements were "all men who disrespect us"?  Get to the real issue and there will be a resolution.

Everything else spiraled from this origin.

There was "piling on" from both sides, and the situation reached a fevered pitch..

Olga... you posted while I was tracking down TexasBoar's quote... you hit the nail on the head.. FINALLY somebody stated the real problem.

Emotions on this are still running way high... and that kills our ability to see the real problems.
here's the best quote ever about emotions killing the thought process...

...I believe you are far too emotionally invested in this to see what a complete and total idiot you are being here...   - TexasBoar


Dave

[Fiorella]

Kvinna and Fiorella have some very legitimate gripes: the married guys who bed young Russian girls with false promises of marriage, the arbitrary blacklists and self-professed scamfighters like (less than) Honest Jim, the guys who con girls into sending nude photos with the promise of serious relations, etc.

Problem is, where are these guys' posts on RWD?

Answer: they don't post here; it's possible they lurk and grab logistical stuff from our TRs and such, but a few hours of reading and they know damn well that if they revealed their agenda they'd be hogtied, drawn, quartered, neutered, spayed, de-balled, hobbled, gutted, and sent home with a wedgie in due time.

They can post on the board and you can not know that. It is internet, anyone can register pretending to be anyone. They can pretend to be white and fluffy innocent baby and behind the board to act the different way.

[LEGAL]

Шишков, прости, не знаю как перевести
old discussion about Russian language
but want to recall you, there are adopted words in any languge. So the word репортер is also originally not Russian
Maybe you have to read the Modern Russian Language text-book by Rosental?

Fact is fact. You have used russian word "триппер"  Would you be so kind to give us an example about "триппер" from  Modern Russian Language text-book by Dietmar Rosenthal.

Olga

[Fiorella]

Photos of girls were removed but his name and photo still in black list as trip reporter or  using their language триппер-репортер -  gonorrhoea reporter.

Trip - means "travel" but everyone see in the words what is more close to him (her).

[catzenmouse]

We have began to talk about 'Code of Conduct' for Men when our tail was pinched 

Just as an FYI: The Code of Conduct for Men -AND- the Code of Conduct for Women were initiatives that were begun 6 or more months ago. They made some good headway but as happens on these boards other things took priority in the lives of the participants and they got set on an electronic shelf for later.

Now seems to be that "later" that they were waiting for.

Ken

[LEGAL]

Trip - means "travel" but everyone see in the words what is more close to him (her).

Agree that trip - "путешествие; поездка, экскурсия". Now translate word "триппер", just use Russian-English dictionary.

Olga

[Kvinna]

Fact is fact. You have used russian word "триппер"  Would you be so kind to give us an example about "триппер" from  Modern Russian Language text-book by Dietmar Rosenthal.

Olga

I see you want to discuss the word триппер-tripper instead of general subject of this thread
do you have some agenda to lead all this into something what bring some benefit to you?