Caring for the Elderly

[Daveman]

I stole this quote from another thread, but it is a topic that my lady and I have discussed in some detail, and I know it is absolutely important to her.

If you never took care about your old parents then you sure have no clue what I'm speaking about  And if idea that old parents left behind after children moved abroad could be big problem without good solution because of objective factors then there is no need for me to explain you here something in million time. Soory I'm in a hurry to my job

Actually, this is a very valid point and something to seriously consider (as has been mentioned in other threads IIRC), both emotionally and financially, and without proper forethought could create very real and serious problems for the relationship.  She will, exactly as she should, want to care for her parents, grandparents, etc. I think we have to remember that old saying "You're not marrying a girl, you're marrying a family". 

Perhaps some of the FSU ladies could voice some concerns they have?  And those married men might address how you have addressed her concerns?

Perhaps this is too personal of an issue for exact details, but general comments could be very helpful planning for the future possibilities.

Dave

[Wayne B]

Dave, we are not married yet.....coming 'soon' but, Anna and I gave her Mama a debit card to use in the Ukraine to help offset the loss of Anna's income for the monthly bills.

[Daveman]

Dave, we are not married yet.....coming 'soon' but, Anna and I gave her Mama a debit card to use in the Ukraine to help offset the loss of Anna's income for the monthly bills.

Good idea Wayne, doesn't matter that you're not married, because you are at the stage where all of these issues should have already been discussed in great detail, and I am sure you have very valid input...  Let me ask you this... have you considered the possibility in the future, when her mom becomes older, of actually bringing her mom to the USA as well?  What are the pros and cons of this?

I think this should be on the table for discussion, though so far I've haven't met any other family member who would want to relocate.  They are "Russian" (or Ukrainian) and cannot see themselves living anywhere else..  even when age really catches up to them. 

So, will the lady begin making several trips a year?  go back and live there while caring for them in the twilight phase?  Just send money?

Dave

[Wayne B]

Dave, we have talked about Anna's mother coming to the US.....Mama, would love to visit here but, she would have no intentions of staying at all..... Mama, is still very young and is in very good shape......she loves her job, family and friends..... and her Mother is 83 years old.... Don't get me wrong, Grandmama is also in good shape and still maintains her own flat, shopping and her mind is even strong with a good sense of humor    The fact is..Grandmama is 83 yrs old and I worry about her.       This is why Anna and I are hopeing that we will be far enough along in our paper work, God forbid something was to happen.

[Kuna]

Excellent topic Dave...

It's something My Girl and I have talked about in detail and something I was curious about for a society with such "strong family values".  How does one leave a family behind???

We're lucky I guess because my future MIL is still quite young but she lives in Moscow with My Girls sister and Husband (Helping care for grandchildren).  We've talked about maintaining and supporting her family commitments and regular visits home and return visits from her mother will become just a part of our family routine.

Her sister and brother-in-law will possibly visit us from time to time too because he has successful businesses and can afford (and does) travel.

Occasions where MIL's attendance is virtually mandatory will be (hopefully) the wedding and definitely the birth of children. At the time I'll be seeking ideas on helping MIL navigate foreign airports as she speaks only Russian. (No choice not to transit when travelling to Oz... It's either KL, Singapore, Hong Kong, bangkok or Delhi)

My best friend has been married to a UW for 12 years and she has made many trips back to Ukraine. BY the way... their 5 year old came home after the last trip home speaking excellent Russian and still understands now but it's difficult to get him speaking Russian here. 

Her parents have had 3 x 3 month stints in Oz and they help the family with some expenses (just to make things a little easier for them).  My friend and his wife are currently in the immigration process so his "outlaws" will have residency in Australia.

His FIL LOVES it here.  On all of his visits they can never get him off the beach because he wakes early in the morning, grabs his fishing rods and walks over the road to the beach and will stay there until WAY after dark.  MIL brings him drinks and meals and even when there is no fish biting he will still have a wet line and a contented look (but no smile) on his face. 

Actually, that's not fair... on his last trip he made friends with locals down at the beach and now they ask my friend about FIL's next visit.

To me this was one of the critical issues.  What if my girl misses her family TOO MUCH or emergency trips home are required?  I think we (WM) need to be as considerate as possible and support whatever our ladies want in these situations.  I couldn't leave my family behind "never to be seen again" and I wouldn't expect anything like that from My Girl.

Kuna

[Daveman]

Some pretty good discussion on this topic in this thread...

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2264.0

Some of the best information on this board is hidden within topics of a 'different title' .. I'll post more links as I find them within this current thread. Here are some summaries..

It's important as hell not only for the care of her parents, but for her ability to successfully make the transition.
 
Discussing this with her early and deciding on actual "plans of attack" will make her more comfortable in both leaving her country as well as assure her that her life with you was the right choice (and remaining with you when the times get tough).  This issue could be a major "trap door" in the process if not planned for.

Discussing it with her can also bring to light other aspects of the relations, as to whether she's really serious about moving.  I would think that if she doesn't take this issue seriously, it would be a flag to investigate further as to "why".

Dave

[Simoni]

We are sending Marina's mother $100 per month.  It makes Marina feel really good, and pleases her mother greatly.  Mama is starting to change her attitude about Americans :-)  LOL

[Daveman]

We are sending Marina's mother $100 per month.  It makes Marina feel really good, and pleases her mother greatly.  Mama is starting to change her attitude about Americans :-)  LOL

LoL... yeah, some are rather hard core about Americans, aren't they?

Simoni.. let me ask you please.. aside from the monthly assistance, what would be your advice in the case of a prolonged illness or some type of serious medical emergency?  Do you think your wife would want to have an extended stay back in the homeland? 

I hear the health care for the elderly is pretty rotten if someone isn't there to kick their ass into shape, pay a few bribes, etc...  I'm trying to come up with 'plans of attack' early on here, even thought we are not ready to file the K-1 papers, I hate doing ANYTHING without a plan which includes preparation for such stressful anomalies... (though from most of the elders here, it has been stated often that she will shock the hell out of you time and time again, best plans or not).

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

Dave

[Simoni]

LoL... yeah, some are rather hard core about Americans, aren't they?

Simoni.. let me ask you please.. aside from the monthly assistance, what would be your advice in the case of a prolonged illness or some type of serious medical emergency?  Do you think your wife would want to have an extended stay back in the homeland? 

I asked her, and her response was decisive..."Of course I would go home and care for her..."

[WmGO]

What Simoni said about familial financial support (absolutely the right thing to do) made me think of something else: women who have a lot of siblings.

Usually there is just one child, sometimes two. On rare occassion there will be 3 or 4 siblings as is common in America.

I have never crossed that bridge, but I recall reading a long time ago on PL where an AM married an FSU lady who had a lot of brothers and sisters - and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM expected monthly financial support from America AND one of the brothers (with no university education) EXPECTED the AM to invest *heavily* in a business that he wanted to start up in the FSU. It caused a lot of friction and problems...........for those reasons I personally have avoided FSUW that have more than one sibling........I just don't want to ever have to deal with that situation.........parental support yes absolutely, sibling support no way, it is not supposed to be a welfare train for the lady's siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins etc........

[Simoni]

What Simoni said about familial financial support (absolutely the right thing to do) made me think of something else: women who have a lot of siblings.

Usually there is just one child, sometimes two. On rare occasion there will be 3 or 4 siblings as is common in America.

I have never crossed that bridge, but I recall reading a long time ago on PL where an AM married an FSU lady who had a lot of brothers and sisters - and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM expected monthly financial support from America AND one of the brothers (with no university education) EXPECTED the AM to invest *heavily* in a business that he wanted to start up in the FSU. It caused a lot of friction and problems...........for those reasons I personally have avoided FSUW that have more than one sibling........I just don't want to ever have to deal with that situation.........parental support yes absolutely, sibling support no way, it is not supposed to be a welfare train for the lady's siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins etc........

Interesting point, William...

I never thought about helping out brothers and sisters!  Just the opposite-- I thought the more brothers and sisters, the more support for mama!

Marina has one older brother....but he is the prodigal son type and is no help to mama at all....more of a drain, in reality...

[catzenmouse]

Shortly after Elena arrived here (and before she got her Advance Parole or Green Card) her grandmother fell and broke her hip. Elena's first thought was to go and help out in what ever way she could. It tore her up that with her status in limbo she could not go. By the time we got the documents a couple of months later things had progressed to the point that her mother was telling her to stay here as she had it all under control.

"Under control" meant that mama was going to the hospital early each day to bring baba food and clean her up, going again in the middle of the day for the same, and going again in the evening for the same. All the while working 2 jobs. Baba's other daughters were much too busy to bother and only made a couple of token visits. Needless to say, we don't have wonderful opinions of those two.

I have a great deal of respect for Elena's mom and I see these same traits in her every day. I'm hoping that eventually we'll be able to bring mama her permanently. It irks me to no end to hear about how the others take advantage of her strength and giving nature.

WmGo,

 Fully agree with you on that one!

Ken

[Leslie]

Well we have lived through this situation.  Here is a link to an older thread I started on this subject.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=800.0

If her parents are retired then a regular payment of say $600 a quarter is normal.  You can help out with other expenses when you visit, say a new water heater, medical treatment etc.  Beyond this and you are into "undiscovered country".  People will treat you like a "white bird" if you allow it.

My basic principal was that I don't owe anyone a living.  So brothers, sisters (indeed anyone you know!) treating you like a loan company who never gets repaid is not going to happen.  Tough if they don't like it.  I was fortunate because my wife came to the same decision so there were no arguments on this.

One very important point.  Once you start to give it is almost impossible to stop without causing ructions.  So address these issues from the begining.  Irregular gifts are better in this regard than regular payments.  Once you agree to these, the only is up!

[Daveman]

Wm. Excellent point.  I had been thinking the same as Simoni there, i.e., more family members = more care for Mama.

Another interesting thread Leslie. The 'Wallet with Legs' syndrome you and Wm point out is something I had not even remotely considered having to deal with at some point. Something else to discuss and plan to deal with (and hopefully won't have to).

Ken, seems like that 'family values' idea is a individual as the women we seek, eh? Your SIL's seem to be of a different mold.  What are some positive/negative thoughts about bringing her mom here?  I'm not against this type of situation for us either, my biggest concern is that if she is living under the same roof with us that she'll really butt into our lives.  I am imagining my ex MIL living with us.. that would have been a disaster.

Here are some thoughts, and maybe others can toss more ideas up there.  This is a simple pro/con list off the top of my head for actually bringing a parent to the US on a permanent basis.

Pro:
- Better health care for the parent, better lifestyle.
- Girl has family member with her, so more like home.
- Save costs of child care if wife wants to pursue education/career.
- Someone to help us with certain things around the house.
- More good cooking! (couldn't resist that one)
- Can help solve disputes
- Better care for her when she enters the 'twilight' phase

Cons:
- Moving costs, estate resolution in her country.
- Added health insurance costs
- Added dental costs
- Higher clothing and food costs.
- Mom will be fish out of water, with only us to communicate with.. no friends
- MIL possibly butting into life (causing disputes)
- Wife may be less submerged in English/culture
- A possible proponent of the Walking Wallet for other family members. (Mama, we need help)
- More strain on everyone when entering the twilight years.

Thoughts?

Dave

[catzenmouse]

That's a good list Dave. As far as the cons are concerned we would not have problems with MIL butting in but the fish out of water is a big concern for us. We don't know if this will ever be a reality as a permanent situation just something we talk about and more so when we see that mama is getting used up by the other family members.

First step is to convince mama to get on a plane, which we have not done so far, to at least visit us to see if she would even be interested in a life here someday. Elena will "work" on her this summer and maybe crack that fear of flying a bit.

Ken

[Simoni]

That's a good list Dave. As far as the cons are concerned we would not have problems with MIL butting in but the fish out of water is a big concern for us. We don't know if this will ever be a reality as a permanent situation just something we talk about and more so when we see that mama is getting used up by the other family members.

First step is to convince mama to get on a plane, which we have not done so far, to at least visit us to see if she would even be interested in a life here someday. Elena will "work" on her this summer and maybe crack that fear of flying a bit.

Ken

Yes, you are correct, Ken.  You know how difficult cultural adjustment was for our wives.   I can't imagine how much more difficult it would be for an older generation FSU women to live here...

But your first step plan makes great sense.

[William3rd]

Nice list indeed.

Here is a governmental problem here that has come up. . . .

Mom shows up and gets a green card
5 years later, Mom, still unable to speak English, gets a waiver of the English exam from a doctor who claims that she is suffering from some mental defect and becomes a USC.

Then applies for Social Security and welfare and anything else she can get her hands on.

This stuff does happen. In the old days of not so long ago, the new resident aliens would head over to the SS office on the way home from the airport

[Daveman]

Nice list indeed.

Here is a governmental problem here that has come up. . . .

Mom shows up and gets a green card
5 years later, Mom, still unable to speak English, gets a waiver of the English exam from a doctor who claims that she is suffering from some mental defect and becomes a USC.

Then applies for Social Security and welfare and anything else she can get her hands on.

This stuff does happen. In the old days of not so long ago, the new resident aliens would head over to the SS office on the way home from the airport

William, I've been doing a little more research into this just to have all bases of information covered... it is my understanding that I would have to sponsor any family members with my income/assets just the same as I would have to do for the lady on a K-1.  So, I would be completely responsible for her financially and I thought making her ineligible for any government benefits.  That would change if she became a citizen?

Another question to which I can't seem to find the answer:  Is there a minimum time requirement before a family member (other than her child/ren) can be brought here on a permanent resident basis?  Does the lady require her permanent residency first?  Or exactly how does the system work for that?

I've read quite a bit on various government web sites, but to be honest.. I don't understand the legal verbiage much of the time.  Is there a "plain english" place to read up on government requirements for bringing an elderly parent over here?

Dave

[Jet]

William, I've been doing a little more research into this just to have all bases of information covered... it is my understanding that I would have to sponsor any family members with my income/assets just the same as I would have to do for the lady on a K-1. 

As long as you're talking about a member of YOUR immediate family - not hers 

So, I would be completely responsible for her financially and I thought making her ineligible for any government benefits.  That would change if she became a citizen?

This point is moot as YOU can't sponsor her mother directly, BUT just because a beneficiary has a sponsor, it DOES NOT make them ineligible for gov't benefits, it simply makes the sponsor responsible to pay back those benefits after they've been doled out 

Another question to which I can't seem to find the answer:  Is there a minimum time requirement before a family member (other than her child/ren) can be brought here on a permanent resident basis?  Does the lady require her permanent residency first?  Or exactly how does the system work for that?

The system requires that one is a citizen before they can petition for an immediate relative. As far as a timeline, it varies wildly but absolutely not less than 3 years from the time the greencard is issued. Once that happens, there are two categories for unlimited family-based immigration:

   1. Immediate Relatives of US Citizens (IR): A spouse, widow or unmarried child under the age or 21 of a US citizen. This category also includes parents of adult US citizens
   2.Returning Residents (SB): Immigrants who previously lived in the US under lawful permanent resident status. These individuals should be returning to live in the US after being abroad for more than one year.

[BC]

New limits would apply to U.S. citizens seeking to bring foreign-born parents into the country. Democrats were working to get additional preferences for family members

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/16/ap/politics/main2819005.shtml

No telling how things will change in the near future..

[Daveman]

Thanks Jet, BC,

Sheesh, I wasn't even on the right planet with my thinking here. I *did* think I was the one who would have to sponsor her mother as the US Citizen.  It did not dawn on me that the information I was reading referred to HER. 

It's no wonder there is no input in this thread from anyone who has actually done this if no other reason than the time factor involved.  Few have been married long enough to cover the time factor for citizenship!

So for USA, the FSU wife must first become a US Citizen, and then she can try to bring a parent over.

And of course, by that time, the whole Visa process could change again.  Better at this stage to plan for caring for them in their home country, keeping a nest egg for emergency trips home, etc., as it would take several years just to become eligible to start the paperwork for bring a parent over permanently.

Dave