Back to Rodina

[Bruce]

DKMM - one more friendly piece of advice that was said above.      Do not get her a fake ring.  If you really want to propose to your E towards the end of your next trip find out her ring size and get her a nice ring for what would be $50 to $100 in Tver, so thats $100 to $200 in Moscow      .  Go to a local jewlery shop and find a nice gold ring with or without a small semi-precious stone.  Let that be her present to always remember you until you meet again.  When and if she gets here on the K-1 visa and things are indeed great you get her a nice ring set in platinum or white gold.  You are a numbers guy.   A good percentage of the girls go back home within the 90 day period.  Take your time.  See how correspondence goes with E.  See how your next trip is.    Spend more time with her in her country.  Yes, you can see how she handles a strange situation by bringing her to the DR, but the more you get to know her in more of a real life situation ie. her home country the better off you are.  Interact with her parents.  Meet her friends, meet some relatives.  Go to her families Dacha etc.   In any event, I am glad you have a good girlfriend from Moscow.   In the infatuation stage it is easy to put the cart before the horse.  Think long and hard about what you are doing.   

[IAmZon]

Discussion boards are NOT true and real human interactions.  The membership shares perceptions - sometimes clear; mostly cloudy.

I choose to look for the best in most people here.  I think DKMM is a man on a mission, and has gotten his sheet together.  He is a little young, but has already made accomplishments that elude most men given there entire lives. His plan is just as brilliant as it is stupid - it depends on the people involved ... which none of us can truly know.   It is wise to see him as rational, deliberate, and able.

(I was the first to sound the alarm on the ring thing. I am glad I did.  I hope DKMM appreciates my good intentions.  Such comments are only intended to sharpen his position.)

I think Jazzy is great:)  I want to very much encourage her to share her honest opinions aggressively.  She did not insult anyone. I do not down grade her opinions as girl to girl stuff.  I see her as wanting to assist DKMM.  She is open - indeed hopeful - to being incorrect ...for DKMM to find happiness.

(Jazzy has begun to serve the RWD community in a VERY important way; she offers a sober and well intended perspective on subjects of conversation from a different point of view.)

This element of the thread has centered on a common theme: Should a man be desperate; or NOT desperate enough.  It is for each of us to gauge honestly and privately.

I think DKMM is doing great ... and I still remain hopeful that he has left at least one beautiful, intelligent, and sincere woman for me.

[Mir]

And how old are you Mir?  Mad that I'm taking the best 27 y.o. in Russia?  Don't worry there are plenty more, but you should probably stick to more provincial areas.

I am within touching distance of 40
Well if you have then you are lucky and it is great, will we get to see a photo of the lady soon?
Thanks for your advice, I am working on it but it is a bit early to claim success

[WmGO]

Agree it is unwise to be giving a fake ring. BTW DKMM I have a $10K diamond engagement ring that I will sell you for half price when you need it.

Also, and not exactly on topic, but I am wondering about FSUW attitudes about the peculiarly American phenomena of the diamond engagement ring. IMO it is purely the result of decades of DeBeers propaganda altering the minds of people. And I am aware that yes although not as common on the Continent as U.S. they also use them, can't say I know what the status is in UK or Aus., but I have always considered the whole diamond as necessary to prove love garbage to be exactly that - and the product of decades of advertiseing propaganda by the South African diamond barrons..........it is a shame that so many, practically all, AW think that a diamond is the only acceptable form of engagement ring......always seemed a shallow (and implanted )thought to me...............and to me I think large things sticking up from a woman's finger are kind of gaudy..........they do not really make a lady's fingers or hand look more lovely IMO...............but to my question:

FSUW just expect their cultural norm: the gold ring. Personally I think they look prettier on a lady's hand than protruding rock (or protruding anything)..........BUT, what do they think when they get to America (or other country where diamonds are common)?? What are their attitudes or perceptions? Do some of them come to expect them? Do they think they are gaudy? I know no generalization can be made perhaps.............but this is something I am wondering about since this ring topic came up........... 

[Daveman]

Great post Wm,

I agree completely about the BS hype propaganda, DeBeers advertising nonsense of the Diamond Engagement Ring. 

I have no problem buying a special woman beautiful and expensive jewelry.  I personally would prefer a standard gold matched wedding set for the man and woman, and to buy her a (or even several) beautiful necklace/earring set(s) rather than a diamond engagement ring.  I agree that it does not make her hand more beautiful, and to my eye simply looks gaudy.  However, a beautiful "feminine" bracelet, necklace, earrings, etc, does look beautiful to my eye.  I don't care for gaudy jewelry at all.

Dave

[WmGO]

Dave,

We obviously have the same tastes in women's jewelry - I think simple but elegant necklaces, bracelots, and earings look great on a woman vs. gaudy rings, multiple rings, protruding anything rings...........

It is absolutely amazing the power of suggestion..........also compare how Americans now think it is normal to have 5, 10, 15 bridesmaids and groomsmen in a wedding.........to me it looks ridiculous.........met someone in FSU one time and they asked why are all those people in the wedding..........are they all getting married??.................if not, which ones are the bride and groom??...........why do all those other people have to be there????........"it is strange"................and I couldn't agree more.........

[catzenmouse]

I'll jump on that bandwagon as well with Daveman and WmGo. A gaudy ring is just that. Necklaces and earrings are much more feminine and accentuating than a chunk of rock on a finger.

Ken

[neiluk]

groovsltk
Some of you guys crack me up. God forbid some agency babe wraps you around her pinky and works you for a trip to Hurghada, after which you find out she has a local boyfriend or three on the side and then come running here crying to have her added to the Scammer section. Yet you have no problem lying or advocating lying to the same women, among whom you hope to meet someone honest and pure

Some of you guys crack me up to, you jump right in an call a guy a lyer, sudgest hes always calling "Scammer" becuase he basicaly stupid.

Theres nothing wrong with limiting potential losses if things dont work out, How many retards would buy a girl a 10k ring and think they know the girl well enough to trust her 100% just after a short relationship mostly conducted in unnatural situations. its my opinion to cut through all the bullshit and dont spend money pretending to be some flash ba"""rd. Only spend serious money when your living together as man and wife in your own country

[neiluk]

It surely does boggle the mind doesn't it. To think that this mentality is acceptable while you expect her to be pure as the driven snow really shows that though the synapses are firing they sure aren't firing in the same direction.

May be news to you, but most people if there honest are not "Pure as the driven snow"  and should not expect other people to be,, there just normal people, and little white lies will probably save your marriage one day

How many men are 100% sure there marriage will work when they propose engagment??  so whats wrong with limiting potential losses

[William3rd]

a "fake" ring tells the girl alot about the man that she is marrying. Same as an expensive real ring that is not culturally significant to her. 

Bruce- you got the best advice here. I think the hero of this story ought to follow it. . . .

[groovlstk]

Some of you guys crack me up to, you jump right in an call a guy a lyer, sudgest hes always calling "Scammer" becuase he basicaly stupid.

Theres nothing wrong with limiting potential losses if things dont work out, How many retards would buy a girl a 10k ring and think they know the girl well enough to trust her 100% just after a short relationship mostly conducted in unnatural situations. its my opinion to cut through all the bull*snip* and dont spend money pretending to be some flash ba"""rd. Only spend serious money when your living together as man and wife in your own country

Quite honestly, if I were still single I'd be cheering you yahoos on. Back then, there was nothing better than guys who approached marriage like a game of Texas Hold Em to increase my dating pool of FSU women. Hell, I didn't need a visa or airline tix, beautiful Russian women were right in my back yard, and my only regret is I wasn't able to thank the mules for picking up the K1 and AOS costs.

[BillyB]

I'll jump on the bandwagon bashing DeBeers too.

Since Debeers, in England, has a near monopoly on diamonds, America asked them to sell them a bunch to help machine weapons to fight the Germans during WW2. DeBeers declined because they did not want to take the chance flooding the market with diamonds lowering the value.

Diamonds are not rare, go to a jewelry store and they are the most common stone there. Most asphalt and concrete, and masonary products are cut with diamond blades. Millions of diamonds are wasted everyday for cutting and machining purposes and there will be millions more to replace them.

DeBeers pays Africans pennys to mine diamonds and pay people in India pennies to cut them. Guess what you pay for the diamond?

Diamonds were not always the gem of choice throughout history. In the 20th century DeBeers aggresively marketed diamonds in 007 films such as "Diamonds are forever", created slick slogans such as "Diamonds are forever' and "Diamonds are a girls best friend", and created such things as a 25th aniversarry band among others so that you could continue to buy diamonds long after the initial wedding ring.

I have no problem buying diamonds for my gal. But one should know that most of what you know is about diamonds is propaganda from a company that didn't seem to care if Hitler was going to run the world as long as it didn't interfere with their profit. You should also know that you're paying a lot more than the actual worth of the diamond. In other words, you're gettting shafted in the ass.

[ScottinCrimea]

If you've gone about everything the right way, at the point where you are giving the girl the ring there shouldn't be any need to "hedge your bets".

One thing everyone seems to have forgotten about the fake ring idea is how she is going to explain it to her friends and family.  "Yeah, he loves me and wants me to move to another country to live with him and marry him, and this fake ring is his token of his love and a promise of what I can have in the future if I live up to his expectations."

[BillyB]

Here's a suggestion that doesn't put a diamond on the ring as DKMM wants and keeps the ring from being fake. Give her a gold ring with nothing on it. Many people who married in the FSU have just a gold band as a wedding ring. There would be no need to promise his woman that a REAL big rock will replace it in the future. She's marrying the man, not the ring and stone.

[DKMM]

Thanks to all who contributed to the great diamond controversy on here.  It has led me to reevaluate what I'm doing and discuss the matter with loved ones.

I have now changed my mind on the fake rock thing.  I guess I never thought about hard enough until this week and what you guys are saying makes sense.  Usually on RWD when everybody is saying the same thing to a guy, there is a good reason for it.   Once again this board has proved very valuable to me.  You are right Scott, no need to hedge my bets because I'm not giving it to her without being certain that she's the one.

I talked to a jeweler who will give me a free upgrade $ for $ for life and also a 30 day money back deal if it doesn't work out.  so I will get a smallish/medium rock (maybe .5ct), put it on a white gold band and hide it very carefully on my journey.  We can upsize it when she gets here, but I have a feeling she won't let me.

As a side note, DeBeers is not the only player in town when it comes to diamond monopolies.  The other one is Alrosa from our favorite country.  But they are in cahoots with them.  I don't care about all that foolery I'm still getting one.  I too hate gaudy jewelry but I like the look of a solitaire and I think E does as well.

I have news for some of you old timers, the new generation of RW (read under 28) indeed want a diamond ring like their western counterparts.  They won't expect one, but they sure want one. 

Now I know many of you will be looking forward to my next TR (that will be #5) 

[KenC]

DKMM,
Besides the great fake CZ controversy, your story is riddled with inconsistencies.  You say you are not ready for engagement, yet your actions (buying any ring) contradicts your words.  To further confuse the issue, you are willing to purchase a ring for perposes of getting "engaged" but not such an expensive one so you can easily bail if it doesn't pan out.  All this sure sounds like a guy not ready to get engaged.  Slow down partner, take your time and when and if the time is right (which it certainly is not now) buy her the ring you want your future wife to have and wear proudly!
KenC

[KenC]

On the subject of rings

I didn't finally decide to marry Lena until she was here in America for many months.  The fact that we were never truly "engaged" kind of took the idea of an engagement ring out of the equation.  What I did was buy her a wedding ring instead.  It had many high quality diamonds in a channel wrapping around the ring.  It wasn't cheap by a long shot, but no where near the expense of a big rock.  ("big" being very subjective here)  I thought I had out smarted the DeBeers once and for all!

Well, years pass and Lena is becoming more "Americanized" by the day.  Standards change and of course girlfriends here get engaged.  The "big rock" concept takes hold and though my sweetie will never ask, it becomes apparent that she has some feelings of being left out.  Needless to say, this last Christmas was very very good to Lena.  Now that "big rock" looks just fine on her finger right next to that wedding ring!  Guys, they will get you, sooner or later.
KenC

[I/O]

KenC:  Yes, to an extent you are right, they will get you sooner or later, but only becuase WE want to be "Got". 

Mine has only ever had limited jewelry, although quite good quality.  She would NEVER EVER ask or even comment about such and I hinted a few times early on to "Sus" her out a little and was politely ignored. (That impressed me immensly) However, we were walking past a mid to high quality jewelry store once during her first visit here and I bluntly put the question.  "Do you like jewelry"? (As if I didn't know the answer, yeah right) The answer was a simple smile and "What do you think, I am a woman". The point being, that she would never ask, but would certainly appreciate anything I chose to buy for her. 

Let me put it this way, one of my next trips to Russia held a couple of rather pleasant surprises for her.  I am given to understand she made rather an issue of these items during the embassy interview.  (Not sure that would have won her too many friends among the embassy girls, but there you have it)

Personally I think rings of any sort early on are a foolish game to play.  There is plenty of other options among decent quality jewelry that is not outrageously expensive and covers as many, if not more bases than rings, certainly more than cheap rings.

I/O

[Daveman]

On the subject of rings

... Guys, they will get you, sooner or later.
KenC

Man... ain't that the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth... so help me Amex...

I've resigned myself to the fact I'll be buying a lady ye ole rockamoondo, but it sure feels good to gripe about it sometimes..        .... especially since I can't gripe to HER...

I'll refrain from my commercially stupidly bogusly expensive wedding diatribe. After all, we're only props in the play that day anyway... 

[ScottinCrimea]

     A few months after I had proposed to my wife I bought her a pretty good sized solitaire on a plain gold ring without all the swirls and other doodads as a Christmas present and also as a show of my affection and commitment to her.  It was not solicited nor expected by her.  Of course she loved and appreciated it, More for the sentiment than for how nice it looked on her finger.  When we were married, she wanted only a simple thin gold band.  She wanted it to have special meaning so instead of just buying rings, she took some old gold jewelry that had belonged to her grandmother who had recently died and had them make the rings from that.  Those rings mean more to us than any diamond could.

[jb]

I gave my wife a 3 carat rock,,, blue/white/VS1, she choose to make it into a necklace rather than wear it as a ring, actually it looks better that way. 

Women are funny that way.

[Momus]

Hi DKMM,

I certainly think you're making the right decision about the ring. I also agree with some of the others that if you're not completely sure about it (and you clearly aren't), you shouldn't be shopping for a ring, real or fake. Anyway, that's your call.

You probably know this, but your comments about "hiding the ring" and your concern over carrying it to the DR made me wonder: If you buy a ring, get it insured. You can probably just add it to your homeowner's policy, but talk to your agent.

[Thor]

As we layed there before sleeping she shared some things with me about her past and what she wants in the future etc.  She admitted to being a former gold digger and dating much older men.  That was about 3 years ago and she said she's changed a lot.  

Forgive me for asking this, but have this girl been listed at this agency for a long time?

[DKMM]

Yeah I've had some thinking to do that's for sure.  I'm still not sure why she doesn't really try to know me better too much, instead she just acts like we are past all that and on our way to spening our life together.  At least she likes me a lot though and tells me such amazing sweet things. 

Regarding the ring thing, I admit to being a bit hasty on that.  I have drawn up a number of scenarios in my head that all lead to me not getting engaged.  So if I do pull the trigger, its because I've settled every last bit of doubt and turned over every rock (if Marstalls was a temporary show stopper imagine all the other little things I would consider red flags).  I have a good start here so I'm just going with the flow and we'll see how it goes after more time together.  I've said this before, I think travelling together really helps you learn a lot about someone especially the living together part.

Thor, that girl was not on that agency site a long time.  (I make it a point to try to write girls who have been on a site for less than 6 months)  since you don't know what agency I'm even talking about, you would have a hard time figuring out who she is.  Ditto for E, she is on a type of site that doesn't remove profiles so I'm probably never going to reveal where I found her.  She was on a list of new profiles that showed up in my inbox from a site about a month before I contacted her.  She showed up on another site right after I contacted her so its reasonable to assume I really could be her first foreigner.

In a new twist, my dear J (from Estonia) has cast her hat into my ring.  Apparently seeing me going after another girl was just too much for her and now she's trying to take E's place.  Come to think of it, she kept me from taking this Tver trip in December like I originally planned so I wont let her do that again.  Funny how things can change...

[IAmZon]

Maybe things don't change at all?

J wanted you on a string.  From that perspective, she is constant.

Is it not the most peculiar human tendency to want that which we can not have?  A man is a 1,000 times more attractive to beautiful women when he has a beautiful woman by his side.

Best of Luck DKMM.  Your experience is making you an expert:)