Ukraine vs Russia

[IAmZon]

(Sometimes there is merit in rehashing - over and over again - the same old questions.  Often new detail arise.  Importantly, they arise from members who's current experience makes comments that "connect" with the reader.  It is in this spirit, that I offer a thread that has been discussed MANY times before.)

<B>Russia or Ukraine:<B>

It is difficult NOT to notice that some members target their efforts to a particular destination. 

DMKK seems to have always liked Moscow and St. Petersburg. 
I/O is exceptionally well travelled and favors Russia (don't mean to put words in your mouth). 
Jack Bragg -who should know best- tell me in no uncertain terms East Ukraine. 

I hope to learn something new ... under the surface stuff.  As well as comparing a contrast from your experiences, it would be interesting to note the similarities too.

I should also confess that after assimilating GREAT amounts of information and advise, I am inclined to WMVM and Highlight the Eastern Ukraine area

ya gotta start somewhere ...

[El Rock]

How many times have you been  to  the FSU ?
Are you in contact with any ladies from the  FSU?

[IAmZon]

By the way ... what usually screws this point of discussion is that someone makes categorical generalization IE. Russian women are more beautiful."  And then members wish to defend their view (or their wife!), because they take the remarks too personally. 

Let's refrain. 

CLEARLY there are MANY Russian Women AND Ukrainian women who are attractive, intelligent, and well meaning.

[IAmZon]

(pssst .. knucklehead. I have dated three ladies from the FSU.  One for an extended period of time.  No, I never GONE to the FSU.  However, I plan to shortly.  Let's stay on focus here)

[BillyB]

Rivcardo,

Choosing location or choosing a woman? If one is to expand one's dating pool, be ready to travel anywhere in the World.

Write to a bunch of ladies and choose the one or few that matches well and intrigues you the most. Based on your favorite/s you will learn of the location of where you will find her and visit.

If you are doing WMVM, before visiting, tell the ladies although you have serious intentions, you are visiting as a friend. The women will respect you more for not sounding desperate and they may even try harder for you.

Before my first visit to my fiancee, I told my fiancee I was visiting her as a friend and she commented that I was a "careful" man. Women like men who don't throw themselves at just any woman on a first date. They also like to win a man over themselves. That's why it is said "If a RW likes you, you'll know it". She'll mark her territory(man) as her own but sitting close to you, holding your hand, fixing your collar, etc....

[jb]

Russia,,, or Ukraine,,, take your pick.  The people are essentially of the same stock.  Have been for quite some time.  Catherine II's reign was one of Imperial expansion. She acquired the areas of Crimea and a port on the black sea following a war with the Turks (Ottoman Empire) in the 1770's, (IIRC), and was responsible for the city of Odessa being built up from a simple army fortress.   So,,, Russia and Ukraine have shared a lot of history together, to say nothing of the same gene pool.  There may be some political bad blood between Moscow and Kiev from time to time, but in reality it's probably more like brothers and sisters who can't get along very well. 

As far as the question of which is better,,, it's a coin toss.  Usually with Ukraine winning the favor of bride hunting western men because of the relaxed visa requirements.  Which, BTW, is a relatively new wrinkle, getting a visa to Ukriane used to be as big a pain in the butt as getting a Russian one is today.   So,,, take your pick.

[Mir]

Riv

Well if you are going to Eastern Ukraine then make sure you have someone (i.e. Jack) holding your hand all the time.

Billy

As such women in FSU are more comfortable in holding their man's arm then holding his hand, looks like that was the local custom and hand holding is relatively new being introduced by the influx of Western men.

[Kuna]

Rivardco...

Like the others I dont think it matters between UKR and Russia. There's many more important decisions to make:

Big city versus small city (what sort of girl are you looking for... would she be happy living where you are?);
How much time you have;
How much domestic travel you want to do;
What method you'll use to meet girls;
Specific interests that might be satiated while away (Making it MORE than just dating by fulfilling a desire to stand in Red Square, visit the hermitage or as it was for me... return to the homeland of my grandfather)

Another thought... I think the girl you go to meet is more important than the place where you find her...  I hadn't intended on visiting Dnepropetrovsk when I started out... now I love it there!   

Kuna

[Mir]

getting a visa to Ukraine used to be as big a pain in the butt as getting a Russian one is today.

I don't know how far back was it like that but in recent years even before Ukraine abolished the visa (initially only for Eurovision) they had removed the need for visa invitation letter for EU(and most likely US) passports.
For Russian visa this is still a requirement.
Maybe Russia should be allowed to win eurovision and that could force them to relax visa rules, BTW I did read somewhere about Russians abolishing visas next year but maybe it is just a rumor.

[Voyageur]

Rivardco,

I have been to Ukraine and Russia. And I found my other half in Russia  . There is no substitute for the love of a good RW, in my opinion!

But it seems to me that - on average - people's lives are better in Russia, it is more prosperous than Ukraine. So given this advantage, it would make sense to believe that women are less desperate to leave Mother Russia than Ukraine for purely financial purposes. So this should give Russia an advantage in seeking your mate.  Yes, the trials and tribulations with OVIR and obtaining visas "add to the fun"  of your journey, but in some small way this also can help you to understand the cultural differences between the two countries. Believe me, on your first trip you will have a blast - it will be better than you can imagine, especially after reading all the experiences and advise that this board has to offer.

[catzenmouse]

Riv

Well if you are going to Eastern Ukraine then make sure you have someone (i.e. Jack) holding your hand all the time.

Mir,

 Why do you say this? Do you feel that Rivardco needs to have a baby sitter with him?

 I think it is up to the individual as to how much support they need in country. I used a translator to show me through the museums so I could understand the significance of each piece that interested me but spent most of my time on my own just making due with my limited Russian and enjoyed just being there and interacting with the people.

Ken

[Mir]

Ken

Yes only he can decide what he needs.

I was only advising such because Lugansk is considered the sacmer capital of Ukraine.

He will be fine in Kiev, Odessa, Sevastopol, Lviv etc but Eastern Ukraine I will be a bit worried.

[SANDRO43]

Yes only he can decide what he needs.

Considering his track record, that will probably take a few years .

[El Rock]

Considering his track record, that will probably take a few years .

 no joke  ,,, in  a couple of months , he'll think of another question to ask .
 

[IAmZon]

I presume geography is very important.  Maybe class (socioeconomic)  is a distinguishing element in both Russia and Ukraine?  There are rich and educated in both countries; there are needy and simple too.

Sandro, my bags feel like they are always packed!

Over the past several months, I have had the opportunity to travel frequently to DR (Dominican Republic) and (Costa Rica) - on business.  These areas are similar to Ukraine and Russian in the international dating scene. There are similar discussion boards and agencies at work in these international locations.

The women are beautiful and more easily respond than there American counter part (Boy is that an understatement!)  And, there is a constant trail of AM - the best and brightest among us (Right!).  I tell my firends, "If you want to know what it is like to be a Rock Star, come with me to X."  There is a "wow" factor.

But, the women are not educated or sophisticated.  There are many that are very authentic and very sweet, with traditional values that come from a more basic life. 

So, I graphed my personal experience with newly arrived FSU students with the environments I have experienced in DR and CR ... and my head spins with the possibilities.  One would either find a wife instantly and with ease .... or just enjoy the endless shopping.

[I/O]

JB pretty much nailed it upthread.  IMO it is perhaps a little easier to travel in Ukraine in some ways.  Perhaps a little more population dense makes it a little easier, but again, I say in some ways.  For us from down under, the visa thing is 50/50 because we still need a visa for Ukraine.

I probably run against the popular thinking here a little, but I am not so convinced about this "Spread your bets far and wide".  Some say the ladies are more this or that in whatever location, I simply say.......ah whatever...!!!  I like location scenery and natural attractions (Not limited to female attractions ) therefore I was always more inclind to look for an area I wanted to visit as that was more important to me.  Other things could come later and ultimately they did. 

From the time I was a kid, I always had a fascination with Siberia and was certainly not disappointed when I first went there, but that's me and others would probably hate it. The vastness of the blacksoil plains in parts of the south, where I can't see anything representing life as far as field glasses will see, is for me, almost heaven.  The fact that mine2b comes from that area is a bonus as I will get to see more an more as time goes by.

The point is that I think there is much more to the FSU than chasing women and guys should scope their view to include other things, because if the women thing doesn't work out, they could well have a very boring trip no matter which location they choose.

FWIW

I/O

 

[Nat]

Maybe Russia should be allowed to win eurovision and that could force them to relax visa rules, BTW I did read somewhere about Russians abolishing visas next year but maybe it is just a rumor.

Btw, getting visa to Russia, do you have to show your annual income and prove your financial status by giving them receipts from banks or information about your money movement on your credit cards? And if somebody remembers how it was to get a visa in Ukraine, when it was required, pls answer the same question. I just want to compare it with european and US rules, while this topic is actual

[Mir]

There is a "wow" factor.

Is it anal wow or oral wow? (Reference Russian writer Pelvin)

[Kuna]

Btw, getting visa to Russia, do you have to show your annual income and prove your financial status by giving them receipts from banks or information about your money movement on your credit cards? And if somebody remembers how it was to get a visa in Ukraine, when it was required, pls answer the same question. I just want to compare it with european and US rules, while this topic is actual

Nat,

There's no need to provide any information about income etc to qualify for a visa to Ukraine.

All you have to do is get a letter of invitation and advise of the cities you'll visit and the hotels you'll stay in... Date of arrival and departure and the usual personal details.

Kuna

[KenC]

I have always thought of Ukraine as "Russia-lite."  Everything seems just a little watered down than in Russia.  I say this from knowing many many Ukrainians and Russians here in America.  Of course you would never get a Russian to admit that any Ukrainian is on par with a Russian!   As jb states above they are basically from the almost the same gene pool.  That being said, it seems to me that there are far more dark haired and darker complexion women from Ukraine than from Russia.  The Scandinavian influence of blue eyed blonds is more prevalent in Russia than in Ukraine.  (Talking natural here not bottle blonds) 

There also seems to be a difference in attitude too.  Russians have a little attitude going in that they seem to be a little more elite than others from the satellite countries.  Right or wrong, there is a whole pecking order established from top to bottom based on geography.  Ukraine, Belarus and Georgia appear to be the next best to Russia proper (according to Russians) with the "Stans" being lower down the food chain.  Of course this is all nonsense and I am sure you can find good or bad women any where.

I think of it all as a form of regional rivalry.  Like the regional rivalries found here between metropolitan areas or states.  Can you find a better woman in LA or New York?  How about Kentucky or Arkansas?  If you think about the silly prejudices we have from one area to another, you can see the same silliness here as found there.  But there is also just a bit of truth in it too.
KenC

[Mir]

Nat

I have already mentioned in other threads how much easier it is for a US/European citizen to get a visa for Ukraine or Russia c/w Russian or Ukrainians who want a US/European visa.
Before visa was abolished for Europeans one needed to send confirmation of booked accommodation(one night deposit for an apartment would get free confirmation letter), a form and fee plus a paid return envelop to Ukrainian consulate. All this was possible by post so no personal visit was required.

For Russia an invitation and confirmation of accommodation is required, again it can be done by post.
Refusal of visa has never been heard off for US/Europeans who want to visit Russia or Ukraine.
However please note that the visa restrictions are not limited to FSU citizens, many others are in the same situation.

[Nat]

Kuna, Mir, thanx for the info
(well, I suspected that all these humilliating rules like showing your bank accounts or references from job places are for our country only...).

[Mir]

Nat

No they are also for Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, All Tans, Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, All Africa except South Africa, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, China etc etc.

[jakeob]

Rivardco

Jack Bragg -who should know best- tell me in no uncertain terms East Ukraine.

  I often wonder why Jack doesn't concentrate  his efforts in Eastern Ukraine  if this is the best place??, as much as i no he is still taking guys to Odessa, and Kiev


neil

[IAmZon]

Jack concentrates all over, but if you get to know him ... he tells you what he would do...

He seems to be highly recommended and waaay in the gamem -cool guy too.  From my phone discussions, and by reading his considerable posts, he is a true authority.