Acceptable Behaviour and Trip Reports

[Gator]

All of this bickering derives from the fact that Pike does not participate in the aftermath of his report.  That is the problem and it is wrong.

If a person posts an opinion, an event, etc. on this board, they should stay around and DISCUSS it (yes, the D in RWD).  The discussion can come after the report, but it is needed at some point.

Without discussion, we must make assumptions (and some assumptions are frankly wrong such as Pike is not out of line because he used Lucky Lovers).  Worse than having to make assumptions is that someone can make false misleading statements that stand unchallenged yet could be considered gospel by newbies reading it.

To Pike’s defense, it seems that he does not make misleading statements nor does he report a method that would be disaster for a Newbie.  The next Pike may do exactly that, however, and it could not be challenged in “sans report”.   The statement may not even involve sex, and yet there it stands.

If we met Pike at bar, we would listen to his story.  But we would ask questions and have a discussion.

And if Pike presented his report to an audience of men and women at a dating club, he would likely feel much embarrassment, and ….

Time for golf.

[Kuna]

It's interesting to watch as Kuna is now saying that if you don't support censorship, or if you support read-only trip reports, it naturally follows that you support sex tourism and pedophilia. Of course, this is absurd.

This is an age old tactic. Used by the Nazis, for example.

I can just see Pike, sitting in front of his computer and having a 14 page chuckle about how he was able to get some people to play right into his hands.

What a foolish and stupid thing to say...  really...  

Sohkay ,  I've said on two occasions that I don't think the TR should be censored... BUT I don't think a TR of this sort should be allowed to be posted without challenge.

What's the problem with challenging someone's motives and actions if they appear to NOT be in line with the intent of the site?  That is the question that is now outstanding.  WHAT IS THE INTENT OF RWD?

We know Ken is in favour of men taking trips like this...

We know a few men here enjoyed the titillating stories about the 16 yr old child...

What we don't know is What RWD is all about?  If it's about casual sex trips to FSU then I'm "goneski".  I wouldn't want to be a part of a community like that...

If it's about developing and fostering healthy, loving relationships with women from FSU then I am more than happy to be a part of it.

There are other sites with loads of information about casual sex tours of countries that are economically inferior to our own... Is that what RWD is to become?

By the way... Pike may be reading but he hasn't got the courage to post here... I suspect it's more likely he's out gloating about his sexual adventure (and fictional prowess) and spending those lonely hours at home masturbating over his pics, videos and imagined "stud status".

One thing I know for sure... he's sure as hell not getting any decent ass at home!  Men like that can't!  Simple as that!

[Sohkay]

Kuna wrote, "... he's sure as hell not getting any decent ass at home!"

Kuna,
In the two plus years I've been with this board, I've noticed that terms like "decent ass" have not really been a part of this forum. I, for one, would appreciate it if you would conduct yourself like a gentleman out here and not use such low-class language.

[Kuna]

But that's all it is isn't it???

Ass?

Isn't that a totally reasonable reason for travelling to FSU? 

Hell... why not go there and bang whatever you can???  There's so many slappers that will spread there legs for a rich American because they can't get any action from Russian men.  Lucky you guys can go and save them from the pain of neglect.

As long as you meet them on dating sites and you can shuffle them in and out of the sack without getting caught it's all fair game...  and hell... why not come back and tell everyone what a frigging stud you are?

I've got an idea... let's have all of the heroic supports of Pike type trips come clean and tell us what you really got up to in FSU. I'm guessing there could be a whole new section in RWD just for your war stories...

Give yourself an uppercut...  You're taunts are moronic and hardly worth a response!   

[Mir]

Oh boy- now we get to see the Nazi card being played. Losing arguments just have to trot out the Nazi card

Naah losers just put those they can't beat on ignore

Kuna

I did not mean 16 year olds specifically, just young and pretty.
At your age it is still possible to have a fantasy to make love to a young and pretty woman (may she be 20,22,25 etc)
At 60 the same will be thought disgusting by some, yet it is still safe to do so in a fantasy,

[Sohkay]

Kuna,
You are so easily manipulated! It's almost too easy.

[Kuna]

OK OK... I've thought about it... in light of the highly persuasive arguements put forward by Sohkay I've decided to join the mob.

In future when a newbie comes here I'll be sure to tell him that there are many different ways to take trips to FSU.

There's WMVM, WMVO, WOVO and Agency-type speed dating.  He can contract a guide to place ads in newspapers and then there's the ever popular "Casual Sex Tour"...  

Hell...  we'll just refer them to Pike's TR for a manual on how to jag more booty than they've probably seen in years at home.  

The only catch is you have to make sure you don't let them know others will be calling and messaging (so turn off your phone when you're in bed) and make sure you get them the hell out of bed before the next one arrives.

Other than that... it's all cool!


Dan,  we need a few new emoticons...

I would like to see a nipple tweaking one... maybe some of young girls dressed in school uniforms...  and how about one of a old guy doing some Village People hip thrusting moves?

[Kuna]

Kuna,
You are so easily manipulated! It's almost too easy.

A comment like that is so cowardly it's humiliating to be in any sort of community with you.

First you try to support Pikes little sex tour and throw a few feable little insults - and then when you realise you're looking like a little boy you try to mask your shame with a sham.

At least have the guts to stand behind your previous posts.

[Admin]

Guys!

I cannot stress enough how important it is to remain dispassionate when it comes to these sorts of topics. Fine to vigorously debate issues - but DO NOT take things personally!

CaptB (and others) - you raised an interesting question about "focus" - now expanded to the 'Mission of RWD'. At first, I thought it would be easy to address, but the more I considered the question, the more I realized it will take me some time. Please be patient - I *will* respond to the question.

- Dan

[batman]

Kuna wrote, "... he's sure as hell not getting any decent ass at home!"

Kuna,
In the two plus years I've been with this board, I've noticed that terms like "decent ass" have not really been a part of this forum. I, for one, would appreciate it if you would conduct yourself like a gentleman out here and not use such low-class language.

You're right Sohkay,

We should talk in a gentlemenly fashion while we go about our un-gentlemenly things in the FSU? It's HOW we talk - not what we do, right?

Well, this has been very educational for me.

How do I join your Casual Sex Club?
I hope you've got the following manuals ready for me:
- How to manipulate women while being Gentlemenly
- How to pretend love someone when you frankly couldn't give a sh!t about them
- Advanced date scheduling for the morally deprived
- Advanced techniques on filming young girls for later enjoyment

I'm surely missing some of my text books (Ilost my list). Please tell me the rest

Where do I pay my fee and sign up?

At least we know more about each other now don't we.

I also agree we clarify website as a Marriage Forum.

As a newbie I didn't find Pike's report the least bit educational in relation to finding an FSU wife.

[Admin]

Hey!

We managed to get to 15 pages of debate before Godwin's Law kicked in!

Not bad.

- Dan

[Kuna]

Dan,

I think the thread is exhausted anyway... in fact it was probably exhausted by the time Ken joined in... Now Sohkay seems to be taking the next shift but he's not "rool good et it".

You've certainly got some diverse views this time and I don't envy you over the next few days as you try to sort it.

To be honest there seems to be a number of men here that are pro casual sex tours and obviously there's a few that are against. From my perspective there's not much middle ground.  Either men are going to FSU to seek a wife (but of course they don't HAVE to marry the first woman they meet) or they are going to FSU seeking some sexual fun.

I was always under the impression that we aimed to maintain some dignity in our pursuit of marriage to a FSU wife but of course dignity is to be defined (as is sex tourism).

If casual sex tours are in fact acceptable, I anticipate some pretty big changes coming up.

In Introductions and Ice breakers maybe we'll start to see men coming in to introduce themselves and be honest about the reason for being here.  Some will just want to learn how to bed as many women as possible during their 2 week flash tour of FSU.

"Are women easier in Moscow or Ufa?"

In Starting out newbies could get sample letters they can use and maybe you could provide a list of web sites where men can find all these easy women?

The Experienced section will be the domain of the war horses with up to a decade of "experience".  Maybe this group could build a little database of women that will put out because they can't get any at home.  Hell... these women are easy and hot for some action so they might even agree to have their photos listed in the database too???

The married section might become less active because I can't imagine many wives being happy with their men hanging out and discussing their own previous conquests OR giving advice to others on how they can knock off an even dozen in a single trip.

I could go on and on but maybe the supoprters have othe cool ideas on how you can reform RWD to be more inclusive of men with different agendas to those that have been mainly supported up to now.

I'm surprised at some of the stuff in this thread... Other parts haven't surprised me much.

Time for some sleep...  I'll look forward to the next few days.

Kuna

[Bruno]

So much emotion for a so little problem !!!

CaptB introduces a good point that the goal of this forum is MARRIAGE. 

Psychologists are convinced that men and woman are hardwired to live as couples.

Since when "live as couples" imply only the "MARRIAGE"...

Please, weak-up, we are in the second in 2007... a lot of couples live together without being married... and the relationship is not more bad because of this...

Maybe in these case, Europa can be a example... already some country like Belgium or Holland have introduce the "cohabitation visa" for a foreign partner... why marry someone that you don't really know, that you have spend only a few month together in the last few years... and in condition more like tourist trip and not a real life of couples...

Yes, i already hear the "conservative" comment, these who will say that it is a sin for be partner and not married... i will reply to them : you are right and follow your logic to the end... i mean : no sex before the marriage, sex only for reproduce, no contraception method used... not sure it is always apply but only the missionary position is allowed...

Seem that some here are back in the middle age... let start again the inquisition...

I don't like Spike but he have the right to make what he wish until his sexual partner agree with it... from what i have read, he have not rape any ladies or obligate them to have sex... at the reserve, some of the ladies have present themself naked to him... possible desesperate ladies who was thinking that if they don't fµck the guy, she will love the opportunity to the US golden paradise...

5. Early in his trip Pike attempted to manipulate the women by showing photos of his house and ...

Who don't make it... take a look at the friday evening, when the usual worker remove his working clothes for a good costume... add a little parfum... time to feel the wallet... and go out...

Both men seeking casual sex or girlfriend or marriage act in the same way... they transform themself for attract the ladies... if needed, they invent sweet lies who adventage themself... in the women hunting, the second place give no reward, only the first place count... only the first receive the trophy...

Any men who date try to show his good side and hide the bad one... and the situation is identic for ladies...

Pike is a loser because he deceived and manipulated women so he could get the sex he isn't capable of getting at home.

He is a looser because he cannot count !!!

For the money spend for the trip and the stay, he can have a lady localy during one year, each week... and be sure to fµck each time... these ladies are called hooker... they are cheap, they are professional ( usually ), and don't disturb you anymore after... and a hooker from 20 year old will fµck without problem with a old guy of 90 year old if he pay the 50 euro needed for the business transaction...

Real sex tourist don't go to Russia but to other country where they are allowed to have sexual relation who are no allowed in his own country... by example, sex with young boy or girls, sex with goat  , etc ...

Pike is in Russia because of business... i am sure that at home, he act in the same way... maybe not at his city level since in 50 year, he have certainly test all the single women from his area...

If Pike was capable of getting sex on an even playing field he would have met women through means other than marriage sites.

Ok, in these case, we can easily resolve the problem... simply give the right information to Spike, allowing him to find women who seek casual sex... you have a plenty of FSU site for this :

top.jdu.ru or maybe at love.xa-xa.org ... by example for the second site, at http://love.xa-xa.org/page/lisasexy/ ... sexy young girl of 19 year old ( see pic below ) seek a man from 21 to 60 for one or two time casual sex... Seem perfect for spike... both will be happy...

Critic like see in these topic lead to nothing... shocking because Spike date married minded ladies !!! Simply show him the place where he can find ladies for this... and i can assure you that if he browse these russian sites, he will several thousand of these ladies...

Spike is too much old for change... if he like to game in the mud, don't critic him since it will lead to no result... simply indicate him the more near mud pond where he can freely game with the other pig... once far from us, we will not more have the mud's odor around us...

We know Ken is in favour of men taking trips like this...

 :noidea: It is not because KenC don't try to kill Spike that he agree with Spike's behaviour... Myself, i don't like how spike act but i have no right to judge him... until now, he have describe nothing in his trip report who is again any legal law... the moral or religious "laws" are only to apply for yourself... and don't forget, for the majority of people, we are the "not normal" people because we seek a wife outside our border...

We know a few men here enjoyed the titillating stories about the 16 yr old child...

Who ?

What we don't know is What RWD is all about?  If it's about casual sex trips to FSU then I'm "goneski".  I wouldn't want to be a part of a community like that...

RWD is about relationship between western men and FSU women... the more usual type of relationship is the "romantic love"... some quote :

"Romantic love is a form of sexual love that attempts to either partly, or in some cases entirely, transcend mere needs driven by looks, sexual desire, or material and social gain. These things, however, play an ironic role both in its arousal and justification."

"Romantic love generally involves a mix of emotional and sexual desire for another as a person, but within the context of a relationship or marriage it means a temporary freeing or optimizing of intimacy, either in a particularly luxurious manner (or the opposite as in the "natural"), or perhaps in greater spirituality, irony, or peril to the relationship."

For information, in FSU, same doctor say that sex is needed for a healthy life... so, i am not surprised that some ladies seek men only for have so sex... without the goal to build a relationship... Seem that Spike have meet these type of women... if i good remember, one of these lady have "ride" Spike until she have her pleasure... without taking care of him not having finish, she have put her clothes on and go away... in so case, i can say that the woman have "use" Spike 

One thing I know for sure... he's sure as hell not getting any decent ass at home!  Men like that can't!  Simple as that!

Don't be so sure... i am fat, i am ugly, i have grey hair, i have a beard, etc.... everywhere in the world, i have never know problem for casual sex... problem have begin when i have start seeking for a long term relationship... sexual partner is something easy to find... here, several time, people have speak about the "need" to test the physical relationship... usual on this level men are enough compatible with a lot of ladies... but find someone who is "mind" compatible is like win the lotery... a few are lucky and a lot not... from all members from RWD, i can only think about MammaD who was a lucky lotery winner... the same couple from the beginning and from a very long time... and a happy long life !!!

[Bruno]

In Starting out newbies could get sample letters they can use and maybe you could provide a list of web sites where men can find all these easy women?

Just started... in my previous post...

Like i have say, you will never change so guys... so, better send them directly to place where these like him hunt or discuss... i am not sure, but i think that someone have posted some link in the past about a forum where sex tourist was making "trip report"...

If we don't wish so guys here, only two solutions... send them to the right place or kill them... hmmm, Kuna is candidat for the exterminator function 

Please, calm down... 3 sex maniac within the more of 2000 members... i am sure that we are lower that the national level...

[catzenmouse]

To be honest there seems to be a number of men here that are pro casual sex tours and obviously there's a few that are against. From my perspective there's not much middle ground.  Either men are going to FSU to seek a wife (but of course they don't HAVE to marry the first woman they meet) or they are going to FSU seeking some sexual fun.

I was always under the impression that we aimed to maintain some dignity in our pursuit of marriage to a FSU wife but of course dignity is to be defined (as is sex tourism).

If casual sex tours are in fact acceptable, I anticipate some pretty big changes coming up.

I'll add a couple of comments then I will have to be done with this thread. It has gone from a healthy debate to a pissing contest IMO.

I do not read here that anyone is promoting or condoning a sex tourist. We do have some differences in the opinion of whether Pike "is" a sex tourist or more of a professional dater who is not opposed to certain benefits.

My vote was to leave the thread. It was not a vote for sex tourism. I do feel that Pike has manipulated the situations he was in to get what he wanted. Perhaps he was manipulated in kind to get what she wanted as well. Don't know and truly don't care.

As Pike has not made one post even remotely explaining his thoughts or motivations in regard to what many see as a sex tour trip report I can only deduce that he is hiding from the light of closer inspection. Again, I don't "know" this and after all this I also don't really care anymore what his motivation or explanation would be.

The value, direction, mission, dignity, etc. of RWD is the ability to discuss all of the information available to and from the members. To become overly embroiled in a topic, even one as emotionally charged as this one, is a waste of energy, time, and does not bode well for a future with a FSUW who will surely test you much, much more than any discussion board.

This thread went on for a good amount of time with some highly heated debate that was BASED ON THE ISSUE before it turned a bit ugly. How many other places could have held out that long staying focused in the message? Not bloody many IF ANY that I have ever seen.

Strong personalities will butt heads. Strong opinions will butt heads. Strong members will see that there are often issues where there is no single right answer, agree to disagree and move on to the multitude of very important issues that we face daily in our search for or lives with FSUW.

Ken

[KenC]

OK Ken... just for you because you haven't been able to work it out for yourself.

Not because I have not been able to work it out, but because you have yet to base your opinion on any actual facts but only your assumptions and innuendos.

Deception

I have deduced, based on Pike's own comments, that he decieved the women he bedded.

Please point out where Pike deceived anyone from what is written in his T/R.

Some here seem to blame the women for "Opening Their Legs" or being somehow immoral BUT I would be prepared to bet that a character like Pike lead them on to get what he wanted.

More assumptions and innuendos, no facts.

Before I start let me say that these women undoubtedly displayed poor judgement.  Actually, when I date women and when I went to FSU a part of my selection process was to measure a womans judgement.  I wouldn't marry someone with poor judgement... but I would't exploit them either.

To "exploit" someone there has to be a deception, which is not supported by what is written in the report.  The women went into this with their eyes wide open.

Now.. deception...  Let's see...

1. Before his trip someone actually asked if he was a sex tourist.  Some of his posts and questions sounded odd at the time.  We know why now;

As I told you from the beginning, I have only read Pike's T/R and my posts here are solely based on only that report.  Besides, just because you may have suspected Pike was a sex tourist doesn't make it so.  Again, no facts just assumptions and innuendos.

2. Pike debated whether he should waste time on a woman who wanted to spend several days with him opposed to using that time to squeeze in additional dates EVEN THOUGH HE CONSDERED THE "SEVERAL DAY WOMAN" TO PROBABLY BE A GOOD MATCH.  You work in out with the benefit of hindsight.

More assumptions and innuendos.  This is a topic that is debated by many that travel to meet women in the fsu.  Yes, even those with your accepted honorable intentions.

3. Dating Sites versus Marriage Sites.  Please tell me which sites he used and what was written in his profile.  Please tell me what he wrote to the women.  SHOW ME THE CORRESPONDENCE.  You assert that he was just telling them he was there for casual fun and they were accepting of that.  That's what he tells us.  I assert that he has been found to be dishonest and manipulative and therefore I deduce that he decieved the women.

I based my posts on what was written not continued fantasies of what he might have done as you are here. Assumptions and innuendos again.

4. If these women were such floozies and he is so much a stud why did he have to turn his phone off to avoid calls from other women?  HE WAS DECEIVING THEM!

Juggling women on a WMVM trip is classical here.  Again, your problem is with Pike's intentions as this is a most common dilemma among the wife seeking crowd.

5. If he was honest with them (just there for dating and sex) and he is such a stud how could he not contrive a threesome or two?  What a loser!!!  Threesomes are more than common at home and if he's such a stud where's his scalps with these so called desperate women (can't get sex without some American gigilo giving them a go) who have such dreadful judgement?

Getting a little off track here, aren't we?  Letting your fantasies get the best of you?

5. Early in his trip Pike attempted to manipulate the women by showing photos of his house and talking about how much money he gives his children.  He was angered by the women that were "so stupid" that they didn't fall for this...  He's obviously not dumb because they wouldn't bang him because he showed photos of the house... He needed to try some other method to get what he wanted. He improved the lie.

Sorry, but the facts of the matter support that Pike didn't like the comment that it was stupid to have such a big house for one man.

6. He was practically salivating when he was describing his attempts to get the women back to his appartment.  How others didn't see his motives at that point is beyond me... but then again almost no one recognised Turbo and vwrw's deception when they lied to the board a few months ago.  It's really not hard to see the reality in the posts here - sometimes it just takes longer than other times.

"See his motives"?  I guess only you have the super secret powers to see what is not written.  What is wrong with entertaining women back at your rented flat?  Didn't you do that?

In closing on the point of deception...  add all those things up...  add the several occassions where we've seen men say one thing and it turns out to be total bull*snip* when the women have their chance to comment... and understand just a little about human nature and the desperation of old men when they feel their flame flickering... and you'll see (if you've got any sort of grip on reality) that Pike WAS deceiving the women.

Well, maybe you have a different type of math down under, but here 0+0+0+0+0+0 still equals zero.  You have not stated one fact to support your opinion only assumptions and innuendos of what was not in the report.  You also keep going back to his age.  Why is that relevant?  The women he dated were all over 40 except for one at 37.

Pike is a loser because he deceived and manipulated women so he could get the sex he isn't capable of getting at home.

How do you know what Pike can or cannot get at home?  You have given exactly zero evidence to support your claims that he deceived anyone yet.

Pike is also a loser because he started his TR and when his motives became obvious he cried like a little baby and threatened to stop posting.  If Pike was a real man he would have been able to defend his position... but he couldn't... We know he is a limp, saggy old man that fantasised over the 16 yr olds outside his apartment.. and that makes him a loser!

More assumptions and innuendos including information outside the scope of his report.

Oh, by the way... I might be a loser... I don't know.  I do know that I treat women with more respect than some and funnily enough women can tell when someone's genuine and when they're just a scumbag.  Some might think I'm a loser because of that but I can live with it.

If women can tell when a man is sincere, and Pike was insincere, then why did so many women willingly jump into bed with him?  Could it be that your theory is incorrect?  Or could it be that these women knew exactly what the deal was with Pike and accepted it?

Oh, I might be a loser because I'm not married yet... or my marriage might not last 5 years like yours... but you might be a loser because your marriage mightn't last the 12 years like my good friend in Oz.

 Whatever!?

Dating is allowed in FSU.  Dunno about you but I met nice girls outside of the whole website thing...  None I would marry... but I believe any decent man can meet women in normal situations.

What I think is inappropriate is a man (ANY MAN) going there when his primary motivation is to deceive women to get sex. If a man goes there (even for a WMVM trip) and has sex with several women it's possible he can tell them the truth.  I don't think a guy relying on photos of his house and talking about women will be telling the truth.

You have yet to show any proof of deception.  Why is showing photos of his house a deception?  If that was his house, isn't it the truth?  You have no evidence that Pike was anything less than truthful with these women.

If Pike was capable of getting sex on an even playing field he would have met women through means other than marriage sites.  Oh come on Ken... you really don't thik he met all these women off "just dating" sites do you?  You're not that gulible are you?

Not being gullible here just basing my opinion on the facts of the report, not personal fantasies, assumptions and innuendos.

Don't worry about me.. I've done OK with women... I don't have a need to lie and deceive though.

Oh, FSU women generally aren't any different than the women at home.  If some American is writing to them from a website and ipressing them with photos of houses etc it's pretty clear what he's up to.  What we don't know is what else he told them.  You want to assume he is an upstanding citizen.  I don't.

I based my opinion on the face facts of the report not assumptions and innuendos of what was not written.  I never said that Pike was an "A-OK" guy either.  I am just not ready to crucify him for what is only assumed and not written.

Maybe when you go on another RWD picnic you can meet up with him and then tell us if he is the type of man you admire.

Never said I admired him.  More assumptions on your part.

I don't know about you but I can smell this type of man when I meet them in FSU.  They have a peculiar odour about them.

More super powers?

This part of your "reasonable question" is just irrelivant bull*snip* to throw everyone off the trail of the real point.

Is it more likely that Pike deceived the women than not?  I think the answer is yes.  Do you support his type of behaviour??? We know the answer is yes.  Not pretty Ken... not pretty!

Still assuming with no factual support.

and finally:
I'm discussing it like a man.. and I think I'm acting like a man.  I don't think much of men that support this type of behaviour and I don't think much of you.

I support the facts not your many assumptions.  You seem to have worked this all out in your own mind, but that is just a vivid imagination not supported by what was actually written.

I've made many excuses in my mind for you in the past and when I've read some of the stuff you claim I've taken it at face value.

I've seen a different Ken now and I've ended up knowing you're not half the man you'd like to think you are.

And you too have shown yourself for who you really are.  A man willing to crucify another based solely on the figment of his own imagination.  No sense confusing you with the facts.
KenC

[Sohkay]

Dan,
I completely reject this Godwin thing. It's obviously another dictum from the PC crowd. Why do you subscribe so much to politically correct thinking, Dan?

Another thing that was interesting about this thread, was that there were accusations from various men (boys) that accused other members of sex tourism, and in particularly bad taste (and in violation of TOS, yes?), pedophilia. And then there were implications by jb that some of the members wives here were hookers.

Now, if a female member posted, and one of the men implied or full out stated that the woman was a pedophile, or hooker, or lesbian, or some such thing, we would see you warning, muting, exiling this male member. You would do this quickly and forcefully. Why is this? Do you think that women are weak creatures and that you need to defend them? Do you think that jb is weak creature and you must defend him?

And one more thing regarding the read-only trip reports. If it doesn't work out, or causes problems, you can always shut it down.

Also, you seem to feign ignorance about what it is your advertisers are offering. Have you been to the passion.com website?

[Admin]

Dan,
I completely reject this Godwin thing. It's obviously another dictum from the PC crowd. Why do you subscribe so much to politically correct thinking, Dan?

Another thing that was interesting about this thread, was that there were accusations from various men (boys) that accused other members of sex tourism, and in particularly bad taste (and in violation of TOS, yes?), pedophilia. And then there were implications by jb that some of the members wives here were hookers.

Now, if a female member posted, and one of the men implied or full out stated that the woman was a pedophile, or hooker, or lesbian, or some such thing, we would see you warning, muting, exiling this male member. You would do this quickly and forcefully. Why is this? Do you think that women are weak creatures and that you need to defend them? Do you think that jb is weak creature and you must defend him?

And one more thing regarding the read-only trip reports. If it doesn't work out, or causes problems, you can always shut it down.

Also, you seem to feign ignorance about what it is your advertisers are offering. Have you been to the passion.com website?

Sohkay,

Three issues in your post (I *think*):

1. Godwin's Law. Actually, I think there is a HUGE amount of merit to the axiom. I hesitated in citing it because I did not want to cast any aspersions on anyone - but in the time I have been participating, moderating, and managing discussion fora - this law, in my experience, is universally true.

2. Allegations. Yes, there were a great many allegations made in this topic - and I wish they had not been. Some of the comments made were not appropriate. The reason I (and the Mods) did not intervene is that this was a productive topic, for the most part, and when passionate people communicate on controversial topics - especially those in which there is a lot of 'gray' area - there are often sparks flying. I made a judgment call to not intervene because I felt there was (and is) great value in the debate. I also have confidence that they people involved will be able to find their way past the mud-slinging and productively interact in the future.

On your specific question about jb - no, he certainly does not need my defense. At the same time, I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt - and I could, honestly, read what he wrote and draw two different interpretations. Rather than make an assumption, my choice was to ask the question - and that is what I did.

3. Passion.com. No, actually, I have not visited many of the advertisers websites - for a couple of reasons. Take Elenas Models or Passion.com, for examples - I am not in the market for the services they provide, hence, have no need to visit their sites. I accept, on face value, their statements that they do not engage in the prohibited activities per the advertising Terms of Service - AND - I rely on others to bring it to my attention if there are violations. This is NOT new - it has been discussed (and discussed) at length in previous topics.

- Dan

[Sohkay]

Dan,
And the issue regarding your double standards for men and women which we've seen over and over on this forum?

[Admin]

Dan,
And the issue regarding your double standards for men and women which we've seen over and over on this forum?

Sohkay,

What "issue"?

I try to be even-handed with everyone. I try to be gender-blind. In fact, one of my (lengthy) posts in this very topic was partly an appeal that both men and women be treated equally. It is, of course, possible that I am missing the "double standards" you write of. Because I have stated my intent, you are free to point out where I have missed that intent, and if true, I will work to correct it.

- Dan

[Sohkay]

Dan,
If I see it again I'll point it out to you.

[Admin]

Dan,
If I see it again I'll point it out to you.

OK.

One small correction. I should have said "gender-neutral". I am certainly not "blind" when it comes to looking at the lovelies from the FSU   

Just to clarify.

- Dan

[KenC]

Definition of Sex Tourist from wikipedia.org:

Sex tourism is tourism, partially or fully for the purpose of having sex, often (but not always) with prostitutes. One term for a sex tourist is sexpat.

I think most of our conflicts here are a result of the inability to agree on exactly what constitutes a "sex tourist."  I am also of the opinion that the above definition is way too broad in scope and would include most of us here (including the ladies).  Might I suggest the following altered definition:

Sex tourism is tourism, primarily for the purpose of having sex, involving the deception of the women with false promises of marriage.

I think this is a much more accurate definition of what we may all think a sex tourist is.  It has been posted here that I am in favor of sex tourism and based on this refined definition, I can honestly say I am not.
KenC

[catzenmouse]

Sorry for the interruption: This comes from the TFF Newsfeed.

Our Man Pike just responded to this thread: In His Sans Response Thread. That is just, IMO, TFF. Can you say..."Chicken$h!t?"

Back to your regularly scheduled debate/fight/whatever...

Ken

[William3rd]

Man? or half-man?

I actually went over there and read it-the last one. What a sorry-ass excuse for a human being. Looks like he read the greatest hits  of his p ssy posse over here and incorporated it into his response.
But he wont post it on an open thread. What does that tell you guys?

Any vote changes now? Or are you all wedded to your position?