Trying to understand this process

[Lily]

Bruno, thank you for the reply!

That explains a lot. I am just curious how it is from the Russian woman perspective. What do they hope to achieve by posting their ads, you know? From the replies, I see that they are just geniune women that are looking for a nice relationship.


That leads to the next point. Whats up with the Russian men?  Why aren't these women getting scooped up?

1) It depends on what they state in their profiles as their goals. A real problem is, however, that some women have a LOT to be desired in their communication skills, and that reflects both in their profiles and in their correspondence style;

2) Let me answer with two general issues: Russian men are less available, and are of somewhat inferior quality comparing to their Western counteparts.

[ronthebikeguy]

DKMM or someone else, could you give me a comparison that would help me better understand the economy over there?

Like, what is the average income? I know the average income of an American household is $43,389 a year. Poverty level is about $17,000 per family.

In the FAQs they described a situation where a nurse made $70 a month. That is quite a big bit of difference. The average nurse salary in America is $45,000.

[batman]

mm it is enough to satisfy agency's owners
they are satisfied already with your registration knowing you have a bank account, so they will send you messages "from women" only to catch your attention  and make you write and pay, write and pay. The important thing is to not let you be stuck on only one girl.
But I think they have a good stuff of their own writers + writers from small agencies affiliate with EM for example, or AW

I'm sure there are a number of agencies out there that e-mail you so you have to pay to read them. The 2 e-mails I decided to answer (from Elenas Models) were both from real girls and started real communication. One of them is still going after 2 months.

I don't see how Elena Models is a regular dating agency anyway since we can give each other our e-mail addressing and start e-mailing directly. More of a personals listing.

[Lily]

DKMM or someone else, could you give me a comparison that would help me better understand the economy over there?

Like, what is the average income? I know the average income of an American household is $43,389 a year. Poverty level is about $17,000 per family.

In the FAQs they described a situation where a nurse made $70 a month. That is quite a big bit of difference. The average nurse salary in America is $45,000.

The earned income depends on location and on profession.

Probably you could lok up the sites like headhunter.ru and browse some professions of your interest.

[Rvrwind]

When you talk to the girls that are putting profiles up on your site, what are their expectations? Why do they do it?

ronthebikeguy - Different women, different reasons.
For some its a target market, its not as though the streets of Tver are flooded with foriegn men looking for RW.
For some, they lack the computer skills nessessary to communicate over the internet.
For others, they lack the language skills. Sure many can speak some English, but misunderstandings still occur, its not all cut & dried.
For still others its the convenience & security, we weed out the a-holes before they show up on their doorstep. We are the go between & her protection should some idiot slip through our net.
The reasons are as varied as the ladies themselves.

[Kvinna]

KVINNA, are you suggesting I should pay for my translators out of my own pocket & my secretary & bookeeper etc? Somebody has to pay to translate the letters back & forth. I am far from a millionaire but if you want to put your money where your mouth is, I'll tell you what. You pay for all the translations & then I can let the correspondence go by for free. If you are not willing to do that I suggest you wake up & smell the coffee!!

I suggest you, not recruit the women without language skills, at last it is immoral to lure women that has not abilities to communicate with to-be-groom directly without translator. In this case I totally agree with Pike that refuse to date with such girls. Also with your translation service you turn out women into bleeders
If they don't speak foreign language but want to marry foreign guy they must pay. They must pay anyway to make some contribution in this dating-engaging-marrying process

[Rvrwind]

You really need to get your own life & quit trying to push your anti man crap on everybody else!!

I suggest you, not recruit the women without language skills, at last it is immoral to lure women that has not abilities to communicate with to-be-groom directly without translator.

First of all my partner is a Russian Woman, fully & quite competent to decide whether or not a woman who joins understands what she is doing & the entire concept. I suppose your going to tell me that she is trash as well? And shouldn't be using these poor defencless women.
What a crock!!
The women come to us, we don't go into the streets & drag them in by the hair!!! They know exactly what they are getting into. They are helped every step of the way. We also introduce RW to RM, which is something you never fail to overlook, so I wonder why they would need to speak English??
Even the women who are only looking for a Russian man must pay Kvinna, I run a business, an honest business & I don't offer my services nor my time & energy for free. Neither would you as you still arn't willing to pay for the correspondence. Even a woman who is almost fluent in English still prefers her correspondence in Russian, it is her native languge & therefore better understood. Even you as fluent as you are cannot tell me that you understand every nuance of the English language, because if you were to say that I'd be forced to call you a liar.

[ronthebikeguy]

The more I read, the more that earlier response rings true... "Masochism!"

[Kvinna]

Even you as fluent as you are cannot tell me that you understand every nuance of the English language, because if you were to say that I'd be forced to call you a liar.

well, seems my english is really suck.
I don't see why my statement is this case anti-man if I insist that the women must pay?
it is funny, antidate girls also accuse me when I say if you are serious in your searches you have to pay for online dating, but of course not for doubtful agencies services

[I/O]

The more I read, the more that earlier response rings true... "Masochism!"

Consider yourself starting to get "Clued In".   The serious point to this is that it is NO turkey shoot. 

I/O

[BC]

Ron,

Nothing wrong with the logical approach, however you will find few 'strict' rules apply to this venture.  Likely the closest you will get to this is http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=2   Then as I/O suggested, the FAQ section is a pretty good place to start. Fuzzy logic rules thereafter.

Before you take the wild leap though, let me throw some logic back at you 

You are relatively young at 37 and have no problem getting dates at home, so first things first, check your motivations for seeking a FSU mate.  There are a variety of 'reasons' I have seen over the years presented that describe why WM (western men) seek women outside the border.  A good many end up being total nonsense and quite a few are inspired by marketing ploys of businesses looking to empty your pocketbook.

One of the wiser guys around here said 'FSU women are not for everyone..' and I find that quite true.

I think you first should take a good long and detailed look as to why you think a FSU woman is for you.

Make a list... something like

They are beautiful
I want a family oriented partner
I'm ready to settle down
I like their accent
etc etc

Be honest with yourself..  Include some tough stuff like:

I don't seem to appeal to the type of woman I fancy.
I'm shy and this approach appeals to me.
I don't have much time/patience to scout the local women.
etc etc

Doesn't mean you have to post your list here, but you should be well aware at least to yourself what your true motivations are.  If you do decide to post your list be ready for some rather revealing responses.  You are quite anonymous here so far so don't be afraid to be bold.

Cheers! and welcome!

Oh.. btw.. as you can see this can be a wild place from time to time.. just ignore the junk code and look for the good nuggets of info that appear from time to time.

[Bruno]

2) Let me answer with two general issues: Russian men are less available, and are of somewhat inferior quality comparing to their Western counteparts.

Hmmm... maybe like for other thing, ronthebikeguy need again to divide the problem in several part...

First, in function of the lady age... first, you have plenty of men in FSU BUT ...

First, for women around or over 35 year old... yes, you have men around these age... but usually, they are already married... and for the remaining non married... remember the life span in FSU.... women largely over 70 year old... men a little over 50 year old... so let say that a RW from 40 marry a RM from the same age... they start a family and have kids... when kids are around 15 year old, husband die and we have a widow... life is difficult in FSU for a RW alone with kids...

Hmmm, kids... one of the reason that you find RW on the internet... several divorcee ladies, some young, with already a kid... RM don't really like take care of kid who are not their own...

Education... in FSU, it seem that RW have a very high level of education but it is not really true for men, a lot of them have start early in the life to work... maybe some intellectual compatibility with western men...

For the younger ladies, the problem is more that younger RM are not really financial secure, ready to build a family...

Yes, you have thousand of reasons... but personal, from the RW that i have know, when i have ask them about RM... the main critic was that RM don't seek a wife but more a second mother... making food, cleaning clothes...

Of course economical factor exist... some RW are ready to marry anyone for the sake of the future generation... by this, i mean a better future for her own kids...

In all, it is not really different that locally in your country... some will marry you for your money, some will marry you because you are free and she feel the need to have kids, some cute babe will marry you because you are ugly and they know that no other women will hunt a so ugly husband  , some will marry you because it can promote them socialy, some will marry you because they are in love, some will marry you... for any reason...

[Lily]

For the younger ladies, the problem is more that younger RM are not really financial secure, ready to build a family...

 

Russians and Ukrainians still tend to marry young, and I don't think the girls expect much of financial security from the young man at that age. Unlike in the West, young people, also the married ones, still rely on financial support of their parents.

[ronthebikeguy]

There are several reasons I am looking outside of the normal American scene.

Its hard to find a woman that is family minded. Most women here want to play around until they are 40, and then have children.. maybe.

Most of the girls I have found don't want to work.. or raise a family. They want to just enjoy themselves and live off of me without doing anything productive. They want to 'take care' of me, but not by doing anything. I think they just want to answer the phone if I call. As soon as I start dating, as soon as they find out how much money I make.. want to quit their jobs and buy new cars, usually within the first month!

Most women here don't want to get married until they are 35ish.

My last 3 girlfriends (all over a year each), did not want to work.. raise a family.. get married... they just wanted to go out to dinner every night and go on vacations. I am from a Southern household, with old family values. If I date a girl more than 6 months, I want it to go somewhere.. I want to get married, have children, and do the family thing. I don't want a girlfriend for longer than a year, and even then I would hope that its an engagement.

Its so refreshing to read women's profiles and mention children and family and how they want to do that. If you read profiles from girl's in this area, its all about them and where you should take them and what you should buy them.


I will give you a specific example. With my last girlfriend, she was not working, she was not doing anything.. she was just living. As I was getting ready for work, I bumped into the door and it woke her up. She got upset with me for waking her up. While I was heading to work and she was sleeping in!!!! She talked about it for weeks, how I ruined her morning. When it first started, she would get up and make breakfast, make dinner, etc. Then as time went on, those chores slowly dwindled away until it was left with .. nothing. When I would get home, she would talk about going out to eat because she didn't feel like cooking. She did absolutely nothing.

Then after 10 months of not working, she started talking about how she deserved a new BMW. I thought to myself, this has got to be a joke. She was serious.

I'm attracted to Russian women mainly because they are very family minded, and their biological clock starts clicking very early compared to an American Woman.

[ronthebikeguy]

Something else I would like to add.

I am very grateful to everything. I have really had some great luck in my career and in my professional life. So, when I can afford to go on a cruise, or go on a vacation, or buy a new limited edition motorcycle.. I am grateful for it and thank my lucky stars.

Women here are not grateful, for the most part they just ask for more. I would love to be with someone that .. if it really got bad, she would stick it out with me. I have never dated a girl with those traits though. I always get the feeling that if the money stopped.. they would be out the door.

[I/O]

should I mention the third part of our members are happily married and the part of antidate's girl are engaged even some of RWD members are engaged with our girls

Yes, we do keep those guys in our prayers each night.

I/O

PS: I just noticed your last post Ron and I suggest you get in the ear of KenC (member here) based on that comment. He's been through rough and smooth financially together with his long time Russian wife and can give you some very practical insight as to how she responded.

[Bruce]

Just get on the plane already and go.  Use a full service agency.  Pick a city like Kharkov if you want to go to Ukraine or Tver if you want to go to Russia that has many young pretty available women.  Spend any free time learning Russian language, history and culture.  There is no need for you to get into a letter writing campaign.  Book your flight now. 

[Kvinna]

Most of the girls I have found don't want to work.. or raise a family. They want to just enjoy themselves and live off of me without doing anything productive. They want to 'take care' of me, but not by doing anything. I think they just want to answer the phone if I call. As soon as I start dating, as soon as they find out how much money I make.. want to quit their jobs and buy new cars, usually within the first month!

Do you hope those Rvrwind's and Khersongirls will say you drop your money, they have no need for new car and will go to work to feed you? 
Better never mention about your salary

[Mir]

My last 3 girlfriends (all over a year each), did not want to work.. raise a family.. get married... they just wanted to go out to dinner every night and go on vacations

How times have changed! Traditionally it was the men who wanted to go out, have fun without any commitments while the women wanted them to settle down, marry them and have children. Now the men are desperate for a house and family and the women just want to have fun

[Wayne B]

Hello Ron, and welcome... I am not good at writing books so, I will cut to the chase...A woman from the FSU is quite different from any woman that I had ever met...and most of the married men on here will tell you the same   As I have only been married for 3 weeks now....I am still learning....and I can tell you that there is not much down time with a RW....They are not lazy and they get bored quite easily... If you desire to take the path of searching for a woman from the FSU...I recommend using a full service agency for the first time.....don't waste a lot of time writing letters....Go and visit the woman/women that you are writing to....By you going to her/them in person face to face, will gain you at the least her/their 'Respect'...  Always remember that your first trip should include viewing and learning about their culture....A learning vacation for yourself....that you will never forget

[jb]

Ron,

Welcome to the RWD.

You have received some very good responses to your questions from some very talented men and at least one woman, Lily is a very good perspective from the RW side.

You say you have read the FAQs, that's good.  It's a starting place.  You have to have a basis for clearing up misunderstandings of culture.  RWs do not think like AWs, forget all and everything you think you know about women, Russian women are a breed apart.  I've always thought privately that if AM had known the truth about RW, there would have never been a "cold war".  I've been married to my Russian wife for over 5 years and I still believe that.

You have asked some probing questions about why the FSU woman will consider leaving home and family behind and moving abroad.  I can give you only anecdotal examples as to why.  For example, my wife holds MS degrees in Math and Physics, in Russia she was eking out a living as an English teacher, (English is the language of Physics), here in the USA she has blossomed in the higher education field, and is able to do some real physics research for a change.  One of her university classmates is a department head at NASA developing the next generation Hubble telescope, another works at the U.S. National Laboratory at Los Alamos, NM.  Of the 22 people who graduated with my wife, 6 are in the USA and one is in London.  So,,, some of the drive is self improvement and ambition which could not be fulfilled in Russia, some of it is the desire for a more stable home and family life.  Much depends on the woman.

Of course, YMMV.

[Gator]

Welcome Ron,

Some advice:

If you make 200k/yr at 37 I assume time is your enemy.  So I give you some advice to save you time.  Nevertheless, to do this right I believe you need to visit your woman at least 4-5 times before deciding about marriage.  Do you have that time?  Can you accept a long-distance, exclusive relationship for a year or more?  If "yes" and "yes", read on.

Type of Agency - A listing agency such as Elena’s takes more of your time than a local, personal service such Rvrwind’s Tver Angels and others.  With Elena’s you will spend much time corresponding, planning, trying to determine who not to see, etc.  I have plenty of time so I used Elena’s and the women are real and very fine.

Target Age – Many men your age are really attracted to the 21-yo RW because many will consider you.  Do not believe that they are more mature than 21-yo AW other than the fact many are ready to have children early.  Of course, there are exceptional exceptions.  Finding them takes time.

Your income – Do not tell any woman about your income.  Surprise her after she agrees to marry you. Go undercover when you travel – do not stay at expensive hotels, etc.   I assert that you will probably ignore me because you seem to flaunt your success (for sure you knew that 200k is more than enough so why did you ask us).
 
Golddiggers -  There are many, many RW exactly the same as your live-in AW.  Beware.  Look for the same signs which you failed to notice with your AW.

Language – If you select a woman who does not speak English, plan on adding one year, probably longer, to the overall time of reaching a realistic, informed point to decide about marriage.
 
OWW – Many men spend one week in Russia/Ukraine, go to the local pet store, take several puppies for a walk, select one, put a collar on her and bring her home. It is very risky. Don’t do it.

Challenging Women – There are many fine women who are interested in foreign men yet would not leave their country without feeling love.  They have a reasonably comfortable life in the FSU, receive plenty of attention from local men, and are experiencing the improving economy of Russia.   You must win her heart.  Not easy, and it takes more time.  Even though I assume time is critical to you, this type of woman should be your goal.  I have tried this with two RW over 5 years.  Struck out with one, and perhaps won the heart of the other but incompatibility issues surfaced.  I/O’s “Masochism” is a accurate one word description.

You asked some questions about whether you were suitable.  Nothing that you listed should concern a FSUW.  There is one item that you did not list that could make them raise their eyebrows.  RW believe that there must be something wrong with a man if he is 40-yo and has never married.

[TigerPaws]

I suggest you, not recruit the women without language skills, at last it is immoral to lure women that has not abilities to communicate with to-be-groom directly without translator. In this case I totally agree with Pike that refuse to date with such girls. Also with your translation service you turn out women into bleeders
If they don't speak foreign language but want to marry foreign guy they must pay. They must pay anyway to make some contribution in this dating-engaging-marrying process

 I disagree with Kvinna on the language issue, if you hire your own translator here in the states then you will control the communications not an agency. Additionally (and this is a personal choice) if you have the patience and the ability to learn at least 300 words in Russian and are willing to put in the time and effort you can build a great relationship with a Russian lady who speaks little to no English. The language difference can be a positive if you allow it to become one, teaching your lady to speak English is not for the faint of heart but the bond you can develop will be far stronger for your efforts.

TigerPaws

[TigerPaws]

Welcome Ron,

Some advice:

If you make 200k/yr at 37 I assume time is your enemy.  So I give you some advice to save you time.  Nevertheless, to do this right I believe you need to visit your woman at least 4-5 times before deciding about marriage.  Do you have that time?  Can you accept a long-distance, exclusive relationship for a year or more?  If "yes" and "yes", read on.Yes and figure at least 18 to 24 months plus 2 to 4 trips per year.

Type of Agency - A listing agency such as Elena’s takes more of your time than a local, personal service such Rvrwind’s Tver Angels and others.  With Elena’s you will spend much time corresponding, planning, trying to determine who not to see, etc.  I have plenty of time so I used Elena’s and the women are real and very fine.While I am not a fan of Elena's agency for at least your first trip get some help but NOT a tour of any kind.

Target Age – Many men your age are really attracted to the 21-yo RW because many will consider you.  Do not believe that they are more mature than 21-yo AW other than the fact many are ready to have children early.  Of course, there are exceptional exceptions.  Finding them takes time.I would also suggest you focus on exactly what you are interested in and look to ladies who are at least 24 to 25, any younger and you are dealing with (for the most part) someone who is still to immature. Again focus like a Laser on exactly the type and kind of lady you are interested in

Your income – Do not tell any woman about your income.  Surprise her after she agrees to marry you. Go undercover when you travel – do not stay at expensive hotels, etc.   I assert that you will probably ignore me because you seem to flaunt your success (for sure you knew that 200k is more than enough so why did you ask us).YES! Do not let anyone know how much you make, stay very low key in this regard. You will only attract gold diggers otherwise.
 
Golddiggers -  There are many, many RW exactly the same as your live-in AW.  Beware.  Look for the same signs which you failed to notice with your AW.

Language – If you select a woman who does not speak English, plan on adding one year, probably longer, to the overall time of reaching a realistic, informed point to decide about marriage.Maybe but it can be far more rewarding and the pool of available ladies will increase if you include ladies who do not speak English but again this is a personal choice.
 
OWW – Many men spend one week in Russia/Ukraine, go to the local pet store, take several puppies for a walk, select one, put a collar on her and bring her home. It is very risky. Don’t do it.YES!! Plan on spending a great deal of time in country, the more time the better.

Challenging Women – There are many fine women who are interested in foreign men yet would not leave their country without feeling love.  They have a reasonably comfortable life in the FSU, receive plenty of attention from local men, and are experiencing the improving economy of Russia.   You must win her heart.  Not easy, and it takes more time.  Even though I assume time is critical to you, this type of woman should be your goal.  I have tried this with two RW over 5 years.  Struck out with one, and perhaps won the heart of the other but incompatibility issues surfaced.  I/O’s “Masochism” is a accurate one word description.

You asked some questions about whether you were suitable.  Nothing that you listed should concern a FSUW.  There is one item that you did not list that could make them raise their eyebrows.  RW believe that there must be something wrong with a man if he is 40-yo and has never married.

Gator - Well written.

TigerPaws

[Kvinna]

 I disagree with Kvinna on the language issue, if you hire your own translator here in the states then you will control the communications not an agency. TigerPaws

Have I said a man has to hire the own translator?
I said woman has to learn english or hire her own translator