Trying to understand this process

[ronthebikeguy]

Fantastic Responses. Let me answer Gator's questions specifically. My responses are inline.

Welcome Ron,

Some advice:

If you make 200k/yr at 37 I assume time is your enemy.  So I give you some advice to save you time.  Nevertheless, to do this right I believe you need to visit your woman at least 4-5 times before deciding about marriage.  Do you have that time?  Can you accept a long-distance, exclusive relationship for a year or more?  If "yes" and "yes", read on. Time is my greatest enemy.

Type of Agency - A listing agency such as Elena’s takes more of your time than a local, personal service such Rvrwind’s Tver Angels and others.  With Elena’s you will spend much time corresponding, planning, trying to determine who not to see, etc.  I have plenty of time so I used Elena’s and the women are real and very fine. It seems that an agency like Rvrwind's would take just as much time because of larger language barriers?

Target Age – Many men your age are really attracted to the 21-yo RW because many will consider you.  Do not believe that they are more mature than 21-yo AW other than the fact many are ready to have children early.  Of course, there are exceptional exceptions.  Finding them takes time.My last girlfriend was 22, I wont go down that road anymore. I am looking in the 25-35 range.

Your income – Do not tell any woman about your income.  Surprise her after she agrees to marry you. Go undercover when you travel – do not stay at expensive hotels, etc.   I assert that you will probably ignore me because you seem to flaunt your success (for sure you knew that 200k is more than enough so why did you ask us). I honestly did not. The stigma with this type of activity is it is perforated with millionaires looking for mail order brides. I am quite surprised that it is fine. I wanted to really deter any embarrassment later down the road. Also remember my history, when I was dating in Los Angeles, one of the first questions they ask is "what type of car do you drive?"
 
Golddiggers -  There are many, many RW exactly the same as your live-in AW.  Beware.  Look for the same signs which you failed to notice with your AW.

Language – If you select a woman who does not speak English, plan on adding one year, probably longer, to the overall time of reaching a realistic, informed point to decide about marriage.
 
OWW – Many men spend one week in Russia/Ukraine, go to the local pet store, take several puppies for a walk, select one, put a collar on her and bring her home. It is very risky. Don’t do it.

Challenging Women – There are many fine women who are interested in foreign men yet would not leave their country without feeling love.  They have a reasonably comfortable life in the FSU, receive plenty of attention from local men, and are experiencing the improving economy of Russia.   You must win her heart.  Not easy, and it takes more time.  Even though I assume time is critical to you, this type of woman should be your goal.  I have tried this with two RW over 5 years.  Struck out with one, and perhaps won the heart of the other but incompatibility issues surfaced.  I/O’s “Masochism” is a accurate one word description.

You asked some questions about whether you were suitable.  Nothing that you listed should concern a FSUW.  There is one item that you did not list that could make them raise their eyebrows.  RW believe that there must be something wrong with a man if he is 40-yo and has never married.That's a fair question. The answer lies in business success. I have spent so much time working that it is finally paying off and I am getting more breathing room. The pitfall with this history is with such limited time out in the world, you tend to settle on someone that is seems real but later you find out they are not.

[ronthebikeguy]

Just get on the plane already and go.  Use a full service agency.  Pick a city like Kharkov if you want to go to Ukraine or Tver if you want to go to Russia that has many young pretty available women.  Spend any free time learning Russian language, history and culture.  There is no need for you to get into a letter writing campaign.  Book your flight now. 

Bruce, can you give me some specific advice on what you mean by full service agency? What should I schedule? I saw packages on Elena's.. but what exactly should I do? Which package do you suggest?

[TigerPaws]

Have I said a man has to hire the own translator?
I said woman has to learn english or hire her own translator

I was referring to the initial communications, if the lady moves to the man's country of origin then she will need to learn that language but for the initial communications it is generally best if the man retains his own translator not the lady. If the man retains his own translator and handles the translated communications then he has control over the process and generally will not need to be concerned that he is being deceived.

TigerPaws

[ronthebikeguy]

One thing I wanted to touch on. Do you feel that Gold Diggers are easier to spot in Russia than here? I obviously am not that good at spotting them here. 

[TigerPaws]

Ron,

 If Time is my greatest enemy. Then maybe you should consider putting off searching for a lady from the FSU until you have the time. I am not trying to be mean but if you can not invest several weeks a year (at least 4 to 6) to your search then you are asking for trouble. I can think of but 2 cases where the one week wonder produced a sucessful long term relationship and most here will tell you as I will that you chances of sucess are slim to none.

As for the age issue there is something else you need to consider, if you find a lady without a child the chances are very high that she will be wanting one. So think about the time line, if you meet the right girl and say she is 27, by the time you spend some time with her then finish the K1 process she could easily be 30. Now give her are year to become comfortable with you and her new home and by the time she has a child she is 32 or 33?

The point is you need to consider the time this process will take as an issue to be dealt with and plan accordingly.

As for using an agency such as Rvrwind's; Yes you will most likely take just as much time but this process can not be rushed, not if you want any chance at success.


TigerPaws
 

[TigerPaws]

One thing I wanted to touch on. Do you feel that Gold Diggers are easier to spot in Russia than here? I obviously am not that good at spotting them here. 

A short answer would be NO it may even be more difficult to spot a gold digger if you rush this process.

TigerPaws

[Kvinna]

One thing I wanted to touch on. Do you feel that Gold Diggers are easier to spot in Russia than here? I obviously am not that good at spotting them here. 

lol
Homo sum et nihil humani a me alienum puto

[Admin]

I'll address my OPINION of the language issue - but to some extent, the principles can be applied to other aspects of this pursuit.

There are 3 possible scenarios:

* Work through a translator
* She learns English (or you ONLY seek girls who already know English)
* You learn Russian

The arguments for and against are varied, with the most pragmatic being that she is ultimately going to need to learn English if she is serious about immigrating to the US anyway, so may as well find someone who speaks the language at the outset.

While acknowledging the pragmatism of the argument - I take a different approach. For me, there is a great benefit to the WM learning Russian. For one, it opens up the available 'pool' of available women dramatically. For another (and this was VERY important to me) - I feel there is an immeasurable, though highly-significant, 'message' sent when a guy makes the effort to learn the language to facilitate communication.

Contrary to popular belief, learning enough Russian to be able to hold a reasonable conversation is not that difficult or time-consuming. The program I used was the Pimsleur Comprehensive program which can be completed comfortably in 90 days. The lessons were reinforced with frequent telephone conversation to colleagues in Ukraine - some of whom spoke little English.

In this instance, the approach I took (and promote) is NOT the most pragmatic for someone who is in an accelerated looking mode - but for most, I believe it is the best because it broadens the candidate pool, it necessarily takes some time (which is a god thing anyway), and it also lays the foundation for a guy to really begin to explore and understand the culture of the lady who is to become his life-partner.

In the FWIW category.

- Dan

[philb]

In regards to spotting "gold diggers", I think that a lot of it is common sense.  If something appears to be to good to be true it usually is.

Something else to consider, it is possible to do this without an agency.  I never used one.  It does take a little more research,  you will need to learn a bit of Russian (although you should do this regardless), and more time spent planning.  It all depends on what you want and what you are most comfortable with.  I think that there can be advantages to both.

I am more of a hands on type, enjoyed the planning, and the feeling of independence.  On the downside, I think going it alone can take more time.  You have stated time is your enemy, but I still think this deserves some thought.

[Nat]

After reading the FAQs I think I understand a bit more. From what i have read.. its a bit easier to find someone of great quality and they are a bit more accepting than their American counterparts. They are willing to make a few sacrifices because the winning situation for them is a better life, something that they would not have had before hand.

Ron, you see, sacrifices – it’s a wrong word. FSU women they can make compromises And not because they will “win a better life”, but because it’s in our mentality – not to make argues and rows when it’s possible to compromise (if it doesn’t violate any principles, which are important for a woman). And, as guys already said here, don’t believe the myth that FSU women will be happy to marry anybody only because he is foreigner.
You sound like a serious man. Your family values and desire to create family with children can be a motivating fact for women. So these are your strong points. And not the fact that you’re an American and can “give her a way out from a poverty trap”, as you tend to think, according to your posts

[Bruno]

One thing I wanted to touch on. Do you feel that Gold Diggers are easier to spot in Russia than here? I obviously am not that good at spotting them here. 

Don't show the Gold and they will not Dig...

Some have write "Go undercover when you travel – do not stay at expensive hotels, etc." but this will be difficult... you cannot remove the dots from a leopard... ok, cheap hotel... let say jean's... but what about your Cartier clock... and what with all these bank card in your wallet ( don't worry, a gold digger will check your wallet when you are in the bathroom... she need data to collect a maximum of info )... or you go eat with her a simple pizza but you command your prefered wine... 10$ pizza, 2000$ wine... when you are rich, from a long time, it is very difficult to hide it...

And a good Gold Diggers can be impossible to catch... she can stay with you until the end of your life and waiting for the jackpot... now, with the IMBRA, she can always clain DV, receive her green card... maybe you have make a child together and she will be able to suck a lot of money...

Hey... don't worry... you have bad people everywhere... and i have the perfect method who will allow you to find a honest lady... send all your money to my personal bank account... no money, no gold digger... service for free 

[ronthebikeguy]

Yeah, thats why I asking. I wanted to see why this all happened. I think I have read to much about the Asian dating market and that has permeated its way onto my ideas of this process.

One of the big killers here in America is that women wont compromise in the slightest. If I have to work the entire weekend, then the significant other should try to help or be understanding of that I would hope. Instead of throwing fits and complaining that we arent going to the beach, understand that I am doing it to provide a better life and provide more for the household. A better standard of living if you will.

In my perfect world, if my wife wanted to work.. that is fine, but if she didnt want to work, then I would hope she would want to start building a family or taking care of the house or something.... not just sit around and shop online.

[ronthebikeguy]

Bruno!

Quite right.

I meant to touch on that point that was made earlier but got randomized. I really live rather meagerly to be honest. I have nice motorcycles and cars, but other than that I dont spend money on frivolous things. When I travel, I usually stay in the absolute cheapest hotel I can possibly find. I like to eat medium level food and dont really buy expensive clothes or anything flashy. I think expensive restaurants and hotels are a waste of money. I live in a very nice building, but I have the cheapest level of place in it. I dont live in the penthouse, as I see that as a waste of money with just me and a cat.

I grew up very poor and from a redneck-ish family. It was a struggle to get out of that life and create a new one. I am the first person from my family that went to college and I plan on any and all of my children going to the college of their choice. This goes back to the entire 'being grateful' mentality.

[Wayne B]

Ron, if you made it to the K-1 and she is now living with you........You will have to spend a great deal of time with her for a while....months....because you will be the only person that she knows in the U.S.....and soon there will be serious problems.....  As many have told you.....this process takes time, patients and hard work....that you.... cannot even imagine!  

[TigerPaws]

Ron,

 In broad very general terms I would venture to say that Russian women can be very accommodating, far more than their American counterparts but any lady from the FSU who accompanies you to America will be needing a great deal of your time and emotional support.

 One thing to remember Ron is that most women (if not all) who immigrate to the U.S. will be totally dependent on you for everything for at least a year and maybe longer. She will not know the language, she will most likely not be able to drive, she will not know our culture. Everything will be new, strange, confusing and sometimes frighting. You will be the only place she will know to turn to for answers and a feeling of security, you will need to spend as much time with her as possible.

 Meeting the girl is only the beginning, this is a long term and time consuming process. I know of many men who have started the process of finding a lady from the FSU eventually gave up because of the time requirements.

 On the up side finding, meeting, courting, assisting with the immigration process and living with a Russian lady has been one Hell of a great roller coaster ride and after 7 years with the same lady I am happy to say it was one of my better decisions in life.

TigerPaws 

[ronthebikeguy]

When I talk of time as being my worst enemy. I really mean that in a broader stroke. I mean, I really want to be settled down in the next 5 years and have at least one or hopefully a child on the way.

As for personal time to visit. I really have no problem with that at all. I love traveling anyway. I guess, my only concern is that it pays off in the end. I really think, from reading stories and posts on this thread, that it is worth it.

I think the opportunity is much to great to pass up. I have really had it with the dating scene here, it is rather frivolous.


As for dependence when she moves here.. I have no issue with that at all. Helping her with English and me learning a bit of Russian. I think that would be very fun. Much like when describing the women, if I am loved and heart captured there are really no limits to what I would do for my significant other.

I am leaning towards signing up for an agency and meeting some girls that I will correspond to in upcoming months. A nice winter trip to Siberia sounds like a photo opportunity,

[jb]

Ron,,,

I've been to Siberia in winter, I don't recommend it.

For a newbie, I'd recommend a fall trip to Moscow and/or Saint Petersberg, the weather is more pleasant and the cites are more up-to-date.  Siberia in the dead of winter is for battle hardened veterans.  I suspect you are in love with an idea right now, not a reality.  There is a difference.  Unless you are ready to enroll in the Berlitz School of Languages and begin a six months, 6 hours a day, immersion Russian course, there is no way you can be completely prepared for what you'd find in Siberia.  Not one person in a thousand would speak even a smattering of English in most of Siberia.  Novosibirsk might be an exception, but not many other towns would have a populace with any English skills.  You'd rely entirely on interperters, and unless you like threesomes everywhere you go you'd never make headway with the ladies of Siberia.

Better to align yourself with someone like Rvrwind and take some baby steps right now.  Leave the giant steps for later.  Besides, there are plenty of women with some English skills in Russia.  On a scale of 1 to 5,,, try to find girls with skills of 3 or better.  Regardless of what others may tell you, communication is key.  If you cannot draw complex thought pictures in another persons head, you are not communicating.  If you are not communicating, you are not courting.  Remember the "picking out a cute puppy" analogy.  Hopefully you are looking for a wife and a mate,,, not a piece of arm candy.

[philb]

I have one thing to add to jb's post, Siberia is a damn big place.  I remember my first trip there, Novosibirsk is 5 time zones east of Moscow and then your just barely half way....

[ronthebikeguy]

Oh, I was just kidding.

I am thinking to keep it around Moscow.

[Jet]

If I have to work the entire weekend, then the significant other should try to help or be understanding of that I would hope. Instead of throwing fits and complaining that we arent going to the beach, understand that I am doing it to provide a better life and provide more for the household.

And who exactly, told you that a RW wouldn't throw a fit and complain that you aren't going to the beach?

Seriously, it's impossible to overestimate the amount of time and attention you'll need to devote once you've found the lady of your dreams (ask any married guy here, finding her is the EASY part!) and brought her stateside. After the first year, things start to level out and a degree of normalcy sets in, but that first year will test you patience in ways you can't even imagine right now.

[Jet]

I have one thing to add to jb's post, Siberia is a damn big place.  I remember my first trip there, Novosibirsk is 5 time zones east of Moscow and then your just barely half way....

hehe, my wifes town is a mere 300 miles east of Moscow and you'd be hard pressed to bump into an English speaker there!

[TigerPaws]

Siberia is a great place to find extremely high quality ladies, but as has been said it is not for the faint of heart, I spent 3 1/2 years there, at one point it was -71F, you do not even want to know how cold that is.

TigerPaws

[I/O]

JB and Phil have given you some clues regarding Siberia.  I went there in the first instance as a result of childhood curiosity, not looking for a partner. On my first trip way back when, I visited 5 Siberian cities which of course are less well appointed than Moscow or St Pete.  I had not even scratched the surface as I was to realise in retrospect.  Remember Siberia alone is roughly 4 times the size of USA. 

I will challenge the view of English there.  My experience suggests more like 1 in 50 younger women will have some English. Perhaps 1 in 100 will be at a 3-5/10, however women highly skilled in English are rare.  I went to Siberia as a freshman but I don't recommend it.  (I was a fairly experienced traveller) Mid June-Mid August is the most sensible time to go to Siberia.  I have been there in November but it is not much fun.

Take JB's advice.  Hook up with Richard (Rvrwind) and go take a vacation around the west of Russia to start off with. My only hard and fast advice is DON'T go specifically looking for a wife in the first instance.  Take a vacation with extras. In other words, immerse yourself in the culture and scenery.  Meet a few ladies and get a handle on things.  From there, IMO you are more likely to actually shorten the overall process.  I see many who seem almost obsessed with finding a partner who get themselves into all sorts of trouble.  Make time your friend. At 37 you are not exactly on the shelf.  I was just a touch younger when I first went to Russia.

One last point on Siberia from a Russian Woman.  I remarked to my fiance' a few months ago that we would travel to her home city sometime in the winter within a year or two as I would like to see it in the dead of winter.  Her response.  You are very welcome to go there, my sister will take care of you, I have no desire to ever see Russia in the winter again. I will remain in Australia whilst you vist Russia in the winter

This has become an nice intro thread for any freshman to read.  You've asked some serious questions and gotten some solid answers.

I/O

[jb]

Jet,,, Phil,,, truer words were never spoken.

Unless a man has some actual on-the-ground experience it's hard to explain the vast emptiness of Siberia.  We have nothing on this North American continent to compare it with.   Most Americans have no yard stick that big and are completely lost when it comes to understanding Siberia.  Fly from New York to Moscow,,, then fly from Moscow to Vladivostok,,, it's a longer trip~!  Russia is a truly amazing place.

[Bruce]

Fall in Moscow / Tver sounds ok. 

"Bruce, can you give me some specific advice on what you mean by full service agency?"

You want an agency that operates here and in Russia or Ukraine.  You want an agency that helps you with every step of the way, from getting your visa, to getting your flight, to filling your ears with what you should and should not do, to what you should bring, to providing a decent internet presence with many real girls in their agency who you could meet, to picking you up at the airport, giving you a translator / guide to help every step in the way for what you want to do both with and without girls, to providing a quality apartment for you, registering your visa for you, to meeting girls both in and out of the agency if necessary, to sitting with you in a bar or gambling establishment if thats what you are into and who makes sure you are safe every night. 

I do not believe Elena's has that.  Lifetimepartners in Tver does.  Richard in Tver may be able to provide full services. 

Kharkov I am not sure, but Thor would give you plenty of advice.  There are many full service translator / guides that operate in the Ukraine who will hook you up with local marriage agencies.  Jack Bragg is another good guy to contact about Ukraine.  He is the owner of Firstdream agency. 

After your first trip with a full service agency, determine how much you can or want to do on your own in the future. 

Best of luck. 

P. S.  Lots of good advice on this board.  However, the sooner you get your feet over to the FSU the better off you will be.  Do not waste your time writing letters to ghosts.