Trying to understand this process

[ecr844]

"Ron,"

   Since you are saying anecdotally that you're quite sucessful. Have you given thought to or made a business plan that would allow you to hire someone ( perhaps you already know or have someone like this working for you) that could run the day to day stuff. That way you could take your wealth and use it to allow you to experience this first hand in the country of your choice. In the modern world it wouldn't be all that tough with the help of some technology to keep in touch and manage 'the big' picture from afar.

   Thus you wouldn't be worried about losing money and you would also being using one of your strenghts to your benefit as well.
Food for thought,
ECR844

[ronthebikeguy]

I could read and reply to emails anywhere in the world. I could even tap in on a few conference calls. The main thing is to contribute in meetings, which would be very difficult if at all.

I get what everyone is saying though.

I pose this question: Wouldn't the first trip be a numbers game? To really utilize what time I had in country to meet as many as possible? Then on follow up trips to really relax and enjoy myself?

[batman]

My comments about the money issue,

I think it was really hit on precisely in an earlier post. To me, its not about the level of service. Its about the efficiency of said service. As hit on by one of the first posts, time is my greatest enemy. When I take a vacation, I lose money every single day that I dont work. Even with a paid vacation, I am losing money by not contributing.

Let me give you an example. I read a few trip reports and from what I gather, I would want it to be very efficient. I want to save as much time and headache as possible. Instead of saying, "Hey, when you fly in stay here and you have a date on mon, tues, wed, thurs, fri and you fly out on Saturday and it costs $1000. The point being that it really costs me much more because I am away from work.

I would much rather hear "Hey, we have a car coming to get you to take you to the hotel, you have a driver 24/7, you have 3 dates on monday, 2 dates on Tuesday, you have a translator on call if you need him/her, you have 3 dates on Wednesday, the first one is at 9am, we will have someone wake you up, Thursday and Friday are open to second dates.. and you will fly out on Saturday, someone will be there to get you at the hotel, after a nice late night Friday show." This will cost you $4500." Then I would ask about having a chaperone. Someone to ensure I am up and at them, and at the appointed place and time.. an assistant if you will. If that costs an extra $500, I would do that because having someone running around with me to make sure I am where I need to be without hassles, is worth $500 to me.

I would choose the 4500/5000 dollar option every time. Its efficient, it saves me time, it saves me headache.. but most importantly, I don't need to think about things. I make the absolute most of my time away from work. I don't need to worry about getting cabs and making sure I have cash in my pocket, or haggling about things. I want to prepay and be done with it. The less things I have to deal with the better, especially in a foreign country.

I dont want to walk around for 5 hours looking for a nice restaurant for dinner. I want a car to take me to it and then have 3 hours to watch the sunrise.

I'll give you a specific example. I belong to the largest and one of the best gyms in the country. When you sign in at the front, they offer bath towels. I really enjoy it, because it has everything you could ever need. Every piece of equipment has a hand towel on it. They all have cleaner fluid. The bathroom has shaving gel, razors, hair gel, everything. They also have a mini store where you can buy gym clothes and equipment if you need it. The most important thing is if you go to that gym, you dont need to worry about towels, hygiene equipment, anything. You just go and its all taken care of. They even have a built in spa, massage, anything and everything you want. You can even get your car detailed while you work out. They save everyone lots of time.

Ron,

Forgive me if I have this wrong...

I admire your interest in service and effeciency in general and willing to pay for it. You sound like a man of wealth.

It sounds like you are organizing a business purchasing trip rather than looking for a relationship. If you found a women you felt was a possible lifelong partner, wouldn't you want to spend more time with her for a while and to hell with a few extra dollars you could have earned? Making her and a future family a priority?

Learning her culture from a first hand perspective to gain a greater understanding... wouldn't that be important to you?

[ronthebikeguy]

Ron,

Forgive me if I have this wrong...

I admire your interest in service and effeciency in general and willing to pay for it. You sound like a man of wealth.

It sounds like you are organizing a business purchasing trip rather than looking for a relationship. If you found a women you felt was a possible lifelong partner, wouldn't you want to spend more time with her for a while and to hell with a few extra dollars you could have earned? Making her and a future family a priority?

Learning her culture from a first hand perspective to gain a greater understanding... wouldn't that be important to you?

I agree with you. I think you are talking from experience, which I have none.

To be honest, if I was seriously considering someone to be a partner... money and time be damned, I can always make more.

I think right now I am looking from the outside of the looking glass and really don't understand the emotional aspect of it, and rather approaching it from a business standpoint. I think if emotions came into play, then of course I would bend or use whatever I possibly could to stay as long as possible and spend as much time as capable with her.

[ecr844]

That's what I was alluding to "Batman,". it strikes me as interesting when someone of wealth and means is viewing that as something holding them back, rather than as a tool and asset which they could further utilize to accomplish whatever goal they set forth. I know if I had more means and the ability to do so that's what I would do. I know there are some members here past and present who have done what is being suggested to "Ron." One of the more notable ones off the top of my head being "Jooky."

[catzenmouse]

I pose this question: Wouldn't the first trip be a numbers game? To really utilize what time I had in country to meet as many as possible? Then on follow up trips to really relax and enjoy myself?

If you have never been there before the "right" way to do it would be to not think of/worry about women or dating at all on your first trip.

Absorb the country, the people, the pace of life, the language, the air, the food, the culture in as many forms as you possibly can. This would give you a great deal of context in any future communications with ladies.

 Regarding business, if you go to one of the larger cities I am sure you can find a place where you can teleconference (possibly even videoconference) to any meetings that you need to be involved in. Russia is not a backwater unless you want to find that part of it which you can just like you can find it in part of the US and Canada.

 Let me pose it to you as a business deal: Say the lady of your dreams is like a company that you want to take over. What would you do? Just go to the company and visit it a bit then buy it? Or would you investigate every possible scenario about that company and how it got to where it is now before you visited the company in person? The latter is what I am suggesting in spending some time "in country" before you jump in with both feet looking for a wife.

Ken

[KenC]

My comments about the money issue,

I think it was really hit on precisely in an earlier post. To me, its not about the level of service. Its about the efficiency of said service. As hit on by one of the first posts, time is my greatest enemy. When I take a vacation, I lose money every single day that I dont work. Even with a paid vacation, I am losing money by not contributing.

Let me give you an example. I read a few trip reports and from what I gather, I would want it to be very efficient. I want to save as much time and headache as possible. Instead of saying, "Hey, when you fly in stay here and you have a date on mon, tues, wed, thurs, fri and you fly out on Saturday and it costs $1000. The point being that it really costs me much more because I am away from work.

I would much rather hear "Hey, we have a car coming to get you to take you to the hotel, you have a driver 24/7, you have 3 dates on monday, 2 dates on Tuesday, you have a translator on call if you need him/her, you have 3 dates on Wednesday, the first one is at 9am, we will have someone wake you up, Thursday and Friday are open to second dates.. and you will fly out on Saturday, someone will be there to get you at the hotel, after a nice late night Friday show." This will cost you $4500." Then I would ask about having a chaperone. Someone to ensure I am up and at them, and at the appointed place and time.. an assistant if you will. If that costs an extra $500, I would do that because having someone running around with me to make sure I am where I need to be without hassles, is worth $500 to me.

I would choose the 4500/5000 dollar option every time. Its efficient, it saves me time, it saves me headache.. but most importantly, I don't need to think about things. I make the absolute most of my time away from work. I don't need to worry about getting cabs and making sure I have cash in my pocket, or haggling about things. I want to prepay and be done with it. The less things I have to deal with the better, especially in a foreign country.

I dont want to walk around for 5 hours looking for a nice restaurant for dinner. I want a car to take me to it and then have 3 hours to watch the sunrise.

I'll give you a specific example. I belong to the largest and one of the best gyms in the country. When you sign in at the front, they offer bath towels. I really enjoy it, because it has everything you could ever need. Every piece of equipment has a hand towel on it. They all have cleaner fluid. The bathroom has shaving gel, razors, hair gel, everything. They also have a mini store where you can buy gym clothes and equipment if you need it. The most important thing is if you go to that gym, you dont need to worry about towels, hygiene equipment, anything. You just go and its all taken care of. They even have a built in spa, massage, anything and everything you want. You can even get your car detailed while you work out. They save everyone lots of time.

ronthebike,
Earlier I said to take your time.  This process will require a lot of it if done correctly.  Your wishful plan to select a woman may work, but only on a very preliminary basis.  To narrow the field to a few acceptable possibilities, speed dating or more correctly speed introductions, could work.  But the next step is going to take some serious time invested on your part.  Are you willing to do this?  Jumping the gun and making a decision before you can get to know your potential partner could be (and usually is) devastating.  If you cannot see your way to take 2 or 3 trips at a minimum of a week to two weeks, then you should pass on this avenue IMO.
KenC

[Mir]

I think you should relax and enjoy from your first trip.
If you are all the time trying to meet deadlines then you are unlikely to relax and may not get a good impression of the county you are visiting.
Don't expect clockwork efficiency in FSU countries, even if you spend a lot of money you will run into delays and promises that are not delivered. Better to spend money within a reasonable range, people who invest a lot and then don't get the service they expect feel more frustrated and bitter.
It will be a different experience to what you are used to so take everything with a pinch of salt

[ronthebikeguy]

That's what I was alluding to "Batman,". it strikes me as interesting when someone of wealth and means is viewing that as something holding them back, rather than as a tool and asset which they could further utilize to accomplish whatever goal they set forth. I know if I had more means and the ability to do so that's what I would do. I know there are some members here past and present who have done what id being suggested to "Ron." One of the more notable ones off the top of my head being "Jooky."

Hi Ecr,

To answer your earlier question. Its rather difficult to explain, but most simply. I earn a good wage, but in reality I am still just a contributor. I am not a CEO or anything of that nature. I design software and internet experiences. So mainly, my major contribution while I would be away would be to offer guidance in decisions that are made when I am not there. So rather than be a multimillionaire CEO and not worry about anything while I am gone. There will be meetings and decisions made while I am gone that will influence the product. Small decisions have a very lasting impact on the product. The outcome of the product is directly proportional to my success and future. The software industry is very much a snowballing effect. So I could have someone appear in my presence and take notes, or whatever. The major problem would be decisions that are made and then cutoffs passed, thereby not allowing me to change them.

Its much like sign making. Taking the measurements and agreeing on them before you begin production is as very much the same as placing that last letter "E" on the word SALE.

[ecr844]

"Ron,"

   I would definately then point you in the direction of "Jooky." IIRC, he was also a software designer and was able to find a way to spend a fair amount of time in the FSU while still performing in his career area. I believe his TR's may also be in the archives here and are a great read as well. I realize every situation has it's own unique challenges. I guess at the end of the day you need to weigh the risk vs reward vs what you can and can't comfortably live with in your situation. Whatever your choice, I wish you the best.
ECR844

[TigerPaws]

There was a guy in Saint Pete the other day, this was on the news actually, & he was a rich dewd from somewhere. The two people that told me about this, my wife & my secretary, said he was walking across a bridge over the Niva River when he flung his arm out to indicate something to his companions. When he did so, his watch went flying into the Niva. A $250,000,00 watch, which he is offering a $10,000.00 reward for anybody who finds it. The divers are thick as flies but so far no luck. Appearantly there are only 3 or four watches like it in the entire world.
My wifes first reaction was, "Is he friggin' nuts or does he have a lot of bodyguards? This is Russia where they will kill you & rob you for a hell of a lot less?"
My reaction was any fool stupid enough to pay $250,000.00 for a friggin watch that don't tell time any better than my $10.95 Timex that I have owed for 20 years is an idiot to begin with. So probably didn't even consider he could be robbed or much less throw the sucker into the Niva!!
Just seems to me that a lot of rich folks like to flaunt there wares & make the rest of us well aware of it. But I got a hot flash for ya'll, their S***T don't smell any purtier than mine!
Sorry if that offends anybody but I calls 'em like I see's 'em!

Rvrwind,

 Like most people you simply do not understand big money, let me put it to you this way if you made 350 million a year like say Steven Spielberg and not just one year but every year what are you going to do with all that money? After a while money looses its value, you can not possibly spend it all no matter what you do, so you hire people to make your life easier, you purchase what you want when you want because you really do not care how much it costs. A $10,000 dollar bottle of wine, a 1/4 million dollar watch, a 1 million dollar car is one days income what do you care. That is the world of the wealthy.

TigerPaws

[Kuna]

This is an excellent topic and a good one for all newbies.

Ron,  there's a lot of really good info above but don't under-estimate the CULTURAL differences... not just in the women but in everythng you'll see and do.

FSUW are proud - and so they should be.  Their countries have a wonderful history and you will find learning about it and appreciating it will help you in your search.

FSUW don't just want a husband and father for their children.  They want a man that understands them, respects their culture and wants to build a home and family that retains her Russian heritage.

If you find a good woman you'll see the differences in almost everything... the differences in the way food is prepared and eaten (and the types of food)...  her different sense of humour (than that we see at home)... respect for family, elderly people around her and children... (for some) the respect for the church... her love of walking, the arts and entertaining at home... and of course in the way she treats you.

Find a bad girl and you won't know it until it's too late!

You might be lucky and find a GREAT girl on your first trip but I'l reiterate what others are suggesting... Don't enter this journey looking for the most "efficient path"...  efficiency shouldn't be your goal - "understanding" is the key.

Kuna

[Mir]

Like most people you simply do not understand big money, let me put it to you this way if you made 350 million a year like say Steven Spielberg and not just one year but every year what are you going to do with all that money? After a while money looses its value, you can not possibly spend it all no matter what you do, so you hire people to make your life easier, you purchase what you want when you want because you really do not care how much it costs. A $10,000 dollar bottle of wine, a 1/4 million dollar watch, a 1 million dollar car is one days income what do you care. That is the world of the wealthy.

So he should foreget the watch that fell in the river as it is nothing for him, stop making all that fuss, and go buy a new one.

[TigerPaws]

Mir,

 If there are only 3 in the world then it might be worth the effort otherwise yes I am sure the watch was insured so there is no monetary loss.

TigerPaws

[AnastassiaAsh]

I was referring to the initial communications, if the lady moves to the man's country of origin then she will need to learn that language but for the initial communications it is generally best if the man retains his own translator not the lady. If the man retains his own translator and handles the translated communications then he has control over the process and generally will not need to be concerned that he is being deceived.

TigerPaws

100% right

[TigerPaws]

100% right

AnastassiaAsh,

I sense little self serving tone to your reply 

TigerPaws

[AnastassiaAsh]

TigerPaws, i couldn't help it. 

There are several approaches to do this as we all know, and each person will choose what is convenient for him. For those who decide to do this without any agency, at any point of their search, it is important to have a personal translator and a relationship/cultural guide, unless of course he knows Russian pretty well as well as the culture.

I was thinking if I hadn't left Moscow I would have probably been able to help many WM with their schedule and plan during their trip: sightseeing, flats, hotels, airports, restaurants and such...

But I am close to Pittsburgh now, so I can do that here for Russian students, visitors, your fiancees....

This is a really great thread.

[SANDRO43]

Ron, I have the perfect solution for you : HIRE someone else to do all the travelling, meeting, etc. for you, and produce a T/R with photos/videos on mission accomplished.

For an appropriate retainer, of course .

Any experienced volunteers from the membership (no Pike, don't raise your hand )?

[ecr844]

Will the real "Slim Shady," please stand up? Hey, where's "Waldo?"

[Rvrwind]

Rvrwind,

 Like most people you simply do not understand big money, let me put it to you this way if you made 350 million a year like say Steven Spielberg and not just one year but every year what are you going to do with all that money? After a while money looses its value, you can not possibly spend it all no matter what you do, so you hire people to make your life easier, you purchase what you want when you want because you really do not care how much it costs. A $10,000 dollar bottle of wine, a 1/4 million dollar watch, a 1 million dollar car is one days income what do you care. That is the world of the wealthy.

TigerPaws

You are probably correct Tiger, I don't & never will understand.
If I myself started earning that kind of money tomorrow I still would not be included in that club. I am a man of practicality & no matter if I have $10.00 or 10 milion I look at what I am getting for my monetary value. The fact of whether I can afford it or not is irrelevant to me.
If I get the same service for $5,000.00 that I would get for $50,000.00 I see no point in blowing the extra $45,000.00 for nothing. Don't get me wrong, I would still buy nicer things & enjoy life but I would not waste anything, just my nature. I know I can't take it with me when I go & as generous as I am a lot of my family & friends would be well taken care of as well as several of my favorite charities, if I had lots of cash. You see I'm a people person & being generous to the people around me would make me much happier than spending $250,000.00 on a watch that still don't keep better time than my $10.95 Timex.
Unlike most rich people I really have no desire to horde all my money or to spend it frivolously. I would much rather enrich the lives of those around me. :noidea: I can feed a lot of hungry children with 350 million a year.
I am as I said a man of practicality.
For example when I was doing well back in Canada I went house hunting. I had the funds & means to purchase a house in the city for a quarter mil. Nice house, large, good area, nice yard, all the built in conveniences, no work needed to be done, I could lay back & do nothing & get bored with life. What did I buy. A small 2 bedroom 25 year old fixer upper in a small rural town for 25 K, Not having a family living with me & having lots of spare time I saw no point in buying a house that would allow me nothing as opposed to a house that I could putz around fixing up & renovating & landscaping the yard. Giving me something to keep me occupied.
I took the extra money & bought cars for my son (not that my son appreciated it, but thats another story) & daughter. While I drove around in a used Ford Escort. I did buy myself a nice boat though as I love fishing!
But then, thats the kind of guy I am & probably why I will never be a member of the Super Rich Club. The welfare of those around me means more to me than my own & I have proved that time & time again & yes, sometimes to my own detriment (as with my son) but the good has always outweighed the bad.

Ron - the one thing I would like you to understand without reservation is that you are seeking a woman from a different culture. There are many things that you do now that will have to be revised because although in your culture they are acceptable, in hers, they are not. These things can & will make or break your relationship.
You must get to know her culture, the way they live, think & act. If you don't I assure you it will create problems. That is why this kind of dating must be taken slowly & cautiously otherwise you will never succeed at it.
Those with little time to devote to this endeavour fail 9 times out of 10.
That being said, I wish you much luck & success!

[TigerPaws]

You are probably correct Tiger, I don't & never will understand.

Exactly my point, most people can not understand what happens when money no longer holds any value so they bring forward stories like the guy who lost a 1/4 million dollar watch because they can not understand someone spending such a large sum of money on a watch. Yet for the man who owned the watch it was most likely nothing more than pocket change, like you $10.00 Timex no big deal it is mearly a persons perspective.

TigerPaws
Aboard SeaQuest OE
A Lagoon 570
Docked at Freeport, Bahamas

[Rvrwind]

Exactly my point, most people can not understand what happens when money no longer holds any value

Well one thing we can agree on, its a problem I will never have to deal with!!!

[jb]

Interesting concept...

If you've never had much money the same may be said,,, that the value of it is unknown and you don't know what money can do.

If you are like me, and always made above average wages, then we always struggle to make more.  My toys get more and more expensive.  It could be said that I don't fully understand money either, since I've always had trouble keeping it. 

Then you hit the opposite extreme and have more than you can count,,, 

Frankly, to the very rich man who has neither the time nor inclination to get to know the culture and the woman, then he's in the wrong business in the first place.  He has little chance to achieve success with a FSU woman in any case.  If he wants to throw money at the problem then he deserves what he gets.  And I think in the end he will get screwed.

[DKMM]

This is just silly, Steven Spielberg doesn't make anything close to that.

And this guy that lost his watch is probably not one of the few people in the world that have more money than they care about.

[MaxxumUSA]

This is just silly, Steven Spielberg doesn't make anything close to that.

By 1997 Steven Spielberg's annual income was 283 million.  Just found that on google.  Not that I'm a trivia nut - but this struck my curiosity.

So I would say it's not silly at all.

I would say today - 10 years later he must be over the 350 million per year income level.