Engaged...Financial Expectations

[KenC]

OK I guess I'll jump in on this one. I send Lena $250 a month to help out with expenses.  Before her salary was supplimented by her mom and brother.  So I felt that if I was going to be the man and was serious about her and her son then I would step up to the plate.   Now things have changed a bit as she is now pregnant (never trust UA birth control pills) and we will be having a son at the end of October.  She has just recently stopped working as her job was pretty stressful and is teaching kids begining English for private lessons.

I guess what I'm really saying here is if your really serious then ante up.  If your just playing well that's just not me.  By the way we'll be getting married next month !!!

I can understand your position of helping out financially if your girl is in dire straights, but I find the highlighted statement rather curious.  Are you saying that those of us that do not "ante up" and send money are not serious?  Or that not sending money makes us game players?  I very much disagree if that is the case.  I also think that your comments send a dangerous message to newbies that a monthly payment is required.
KenC

[bgreed]

Sorry Ken, I'm not saying that a monthly payment is required.  There are probably very few that are in or have been in my position where your fiance is thousands of miles away and you have a baby due the end of October.

A for me I knew Lena was the one for me and she knew I was the one for her right away.  Just one of those things where two people just fit right from the start.

So for me it was pretty important to make sure that she and her son and now our son don't lack.  Don't misunderstand she's not living in the lap of luxury, but she's not having to worrry about running out of food either.

Guess what I was saying is that if you know that you know that you know she's the one then you should offer to help make life a little easier.  I practically had to force the money on her she wasn't looking for anything. And no I am not saying that those of you who didn't send anything are players it was your choice.  By the way Ken you did even more than that you actually moved Lena here and improved her lifestyle.

[Turboguy]

Yeah, if worse comes to worse they could settle on that island, buy a house, get a small business going, get married and after a couple years she could probably get a tourist visa.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

Funny you should say that.  We were just looking at real estate listings down here yesterday and the 21 apartment complex we are staying in is for sale for 2.1 Million, US.    I do agree that our future is not in our hands.   The bright side is I have seen a number of people coming out of A/R in the past 10 days and have not seen that before.   That includes some with very similar timelines to ours.

I am learning a new appreciation for VWRW's frugal nature.   I said to her early on we should get either some paper napkins or paper towels.   She said, what for we need these?   I looked in the super market and a package of napkins was $ 17.95.  I have to agree with her.  What for we need them.  Yes that is their money and only about $ 7.50 in real money but the money here does give you sticker shock.  We wanted some cooking oil.  The big one was $ 4.00.  We looked at the little ones and they were $ 17.00.   A  T-bone, maybe 16 oz in the super market.  $ 35.00.   I have no idea what it would be cooked in a restaurant.   We are well into our second week and have not set foot in a restaurant yet.   Much better food anyway. 

I agree on the finances of a fiancee.   If she needs English lessons, fine, if she has extra expenses because of you, fine.  If she needs to quit her job to get ready, fine.   Otherwise there is no advantage to giving her a life better than she had.  If she got along fine before she can get along until the K-1 comes through.

[KenC]

Sorry Ken, I'm not saying that a monthly payment is required.  There are probably very few that are in or have been in my position where your fiance is thousands of miles away and you have a baby due the end of October.

A for me I knew Lena was the one for me and she knew I was the one for her right away.  Just one of those things where two people just fit right from the start.

So for me it was pretty important to make sure that she and her son and now our son don't lack.  Don't misunderstand she's not living in the lap of luxury, but she's not having to worrry about running out of food either.

Guess what I was saying is that if you know that you know that you know she's the one then you should offer to help make life a little easier.  I practically had to force the money on her she wasn't looking for anything. And no I am not saying that those of you who didn't send anything are players it was your choice.  By the way Ken you did even more than that you actually moved Lena here and improved her lifestyle.

Bgreed,
Please.  I was not questioning your situation at all.

I have to tell you that the highlighted portion of your post left me speechless.  And that doesn't happen very often!   I have been pondering that one since you posted it and I still don't have a snappy come back for you!  Gotta think about it a bit more.  But you got me for now!   Pretty good point there.
KenC

[DKMM]

Ken,

I don't recommend anybody do what I did either.  So I doubt anyone else will!

Kuna,

My girl is the same way, but you gotta admit its way cooler than her expecting you to break green so she can be living it up.

bgreed,

I think I know what you mean.  A lot of girls want to stay working and want to carry this over when they arrive.  Others probably don't see a big deal to let you support her if that's what you'll be doing when she gets here.  btw, congrats! 

[Kuna]

I should say... My Girl is very frugal EXCEPT when it comes to "cosmetic"... She LOVES cosmetics!

 

[KenC]

  By the way Ken you did even more than that you actually moved Lena here and improved her lifestyle.

Bgreed,
Now you just knew I wouldn't be silent for long!

Cohabitation is a lot different then sending money across the globe to up grade a woman's lifestyle apart from you.  Lena had already passed the legal hurdles to come here to this country too, so there was no outside control of our situation.  Her coming here was the beginning of our life together and the marriage certificate was just necessary paperwork.  She left her secure home situation (that was not necessary to support) to come to a strange country and culture that would take time to adapt to our life together. An improved lifestyle was a side benefit of being with me.
KenC

[Wayne B]

You are now engaged to your lady and have filed the I-129F. What financial responsibilities do you feel you now have towards your fiancee while she is there (Ukraine) and you are here while you go through the visa process? What are fair expectations from them? Did she expect you to supplement her income so she could quit her job, if she was working? Is being engaged looked upon the same as being married for financial support? Any feedback you have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

    you have no financial obligations, other than the extra cost of filing for k-1....My Anna, worked up till less than 1 week before her interview.....I sent her a ATM card with $100 per month for 'whatever'.....Most of the time per/month, she did not use any of the money.....but, when the time came for her to come to America......she used all of the money at one time.....for her Wedding Dress....Surprised on my part..yes....did I care...no....Her mama my MIL has this ATM card now....and the balance has not changed, since....I tell my new mother to use the money.....but, she will not?  I suspect that when Anna and I return to Kharkov.....the money will still remain in her account.....My new mother is very head strong and she is very proud of her work.....I too am very proud of my head strong new mother.....'Mama Ya Lublu Tebya

[bgreed]

Good comeback Ken   I can see your point. Though I really think the greater issue here is for the noobs that have only made their first trip and are motivated by the difference in living conditions between here and there and don't realize that for the most part she doesn't know the difference because she hasn't seen here.

I think the main thing is to not fall into knight on the white horse syndrome trying to be a rescuer.

[KenC]

Good comeback Ken   I can see your point. Though I really think the greater issue here is for the noobs that have only made their first trip and are motivated by the difference in living conditions between here and there and don't realize that for the most part she doesn't know the difference because she hasn't seen here.

I think the main thing is to not fall into knight on the white horse syndrome trying to be a rescuer.

Agreed, Bgreed.

[catzenmouse]

I have to tell you that the highlighted portion of your post left me speechless.  And that doesn't happen very often!

My first thought when I saw this was to put it on the RWD Calendar. Eventually it might just make it to a National Holiday! 

Now you just knew I wouldn't be silent for long!

About 12 hours... he got you longer than anyone else has so far....

So, maybe not a National Holiday but perhaps an RWD Holiday...

Ken

[BC]

I should say... My Girl is very frugal EXCEPT when it comes to "cosmetic"... She LOVES cosmetics!

 

Even i had a hard time swallowing what looked like a pencil for 25 bucks..

[DKMM]

Well that depends on what you intend to rescue her for and from.  Breaking her out of poverty prison?  Setting her up to not have to work and live the good life?  Giving her what she wants out of life, namely a loving stable man and a family?  There are many things a woman wants and the guy that brings it to her can be viewed by her as a knight to be sure.  

The litmus test is if she were already an American citizen living here, would you have gotten married?  If the answer is probably no chance, then you were a knight whether intentionally or not.

[KenC]

Well that depends on what you intend to rescue her for and from.  Breaking her out of poverty prison?  Setting her up to not have to work and live the good life?  Giving her what she wants out of life, namely a loving stable man and a family?  There are many things a woman wants and the guy that brings it to her can be viewed by her as a knight to be sure.  

The litmus test is if she were already an American citizen living here, would you have gotten married?  If the answer is probably no chance, then you were a knight whether intentionally or not.

Oh really?  And you know this because of your vast experience in marriage to a RW?  Come on DKMM, you are in no position to give any advice on marriage here.  You have your hands full with your own debacle.
KenC

[DKMM]

This is a thread about being engaged.  OK if she were already here would she have even gone out with you? 

I'd guess the answer for you is probably not, thus you were a knight of some sort.  Maybe that makes you feel uncomfortable so you resort to attacking me.

[I/O]

This is a thread about being engaged.  OK if she were already here would she have even gone out with you? 

I'd guess the answer for you is probably not, thus you were a knight of some sort.  Maybe that makes you feel uncomfortable so you resort to attacking me.

DKMM: To be fair, you've done a fairly good job of copping a hammering in the other thread to date and I was begining to think you just might catch on eventually as a result, but this comment above sheds some light onto why you are in the prediciment you currently are.

Throwing stones at a castle wall has never been the most productive pursuit. 

I/O

[DKMM]

That's fine on that thread.  But to carry this over and try to bash me all over this forum is going to produce results like that.  OK you guys think I'm an idiot for not dumping my fiancee because she tried to hide something in her past from me.  I deserve it for putting my relationship on RWD like that.  I'm taking a break from here...

[KenC]

That's fine on that thread.  But to carry this over and try to bash me all over this forum is going to produce results like that.  OK you guys think I'm an idiot for not dumping my fiancee because she tried to hide something in her past from me.  I deserve it for putting my relationship on RWD like that.  I'm taking a break from here...

DKMM,
No, there are lots of reasons for that, my fine Sir:
Deciding to get engaged to a woman that you had known for a few hours.  Wondering if you could pawn off a fake diamond.  The idea that she could "earn" the real diamond.  Forging ahead in this premature relationship even though she lied through her teeth to your face.  Thinking that with this impressive list of idiotic moves, that you can somehow have valuable advice to pass on to others might be your crowning accomplishment so far.  And a very scary thought indeed.
A drowning man should not give swimming tips to the lifeguard.  Save yourself before you start thinking of saving others.
KenC

[MaxxumUSA]

You are now engaged to your lady and have filed the I-129F. What financial responsibilities do you feel you now have towards your fiancee while she is there (Ukraine) and you are here while you go through the visa process? What are fair expectations from them? Did she expect you to supplement her income so she could quit her job, if she was working? Is being engaged looked upon the same as being married for financial support? Any feedback you have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

RK,

I just read this question and I think it's a very good one.  I will post my answer before going back and reviewing other responses in this thread so far.

First - I AM now in the K-1 process.  Near the end.  Thank goodness.  In any case...  I tell you this for background.

More background info:  We started communicating Dec 28, 2006.  First chat session Jan 2, this year.  Basically we have been getting to know each other more and more.

Timeline:

1st time visit in beginning of Feb- we talked about wanting to be married.
Mar 13 - filed K-1
Mar 30 - second visit to spend three weeks together.  Official proposal and engagement
Jun 21 - third visit for another two weeks.
Aug 21 - Her interview date at Moscow embassy.

More background:

She makes enough money to survive, have her own flat, phone, dial up Internet, computer, cell phone, car, plus give about 10,000 rubles a month to help her mother and sister raise her nephew.

I make a lot more than her.

In other words...  I am in a good position to help her.

Now...  She never asked me for a dime before my first visit and our private engagement.  After my first visit I did help her with money to pay for broadband Internet.  This is expensive in Russia - about 1,500 rubles a week.  I did not want her family to suffer, but I wanted us to be free to see each other on webcams as much as we wanted.  So I sent her money every time the Internet needed a rebuy.  It is a small price to pay looking back on the past months as we get to see each other on average for about 30-45 minutes every day.  That's average.  Sometimes longer - sometimes shorter.

One time I sent her money for an airplane trip to meet me in Moscow for my second visit.  I changed plans and she still had that money.  She asked me to use a portion of it for something - a new carburator for her car so it wouldn't break down as much.  So I told her to use all that money to improve her car, and have a nice dinner with a friend.

My second visit she took 3 weeks off work.  Basically her holiday pay is very little compared to her real pay as she is on "piece work" as a manicurist.  So after my visit when rent on her flat was due she asked me to help.  I was happy to help and sent an extra bit for her to have spending money.

This last visit we started formulating a plan for her to leave work and come to the USA.  She asked me what date will be her last day at work.  I told her about one week before her interview.

So that's that.  She pretty much has taken care of everything herself except when her expenses were higher due to having me in her life.  Then I help.  She will not ask for money unless she needs it, and if she does I trust completely that the money goes to the purpose she tells me.

The question of whether she will work or not never came up until we got her interview date.  I think this is appropriate in most cases.  If I did not have custody of my son I might have moved their until her interview and I would have asked her to leave work early.

EVEN THOUGH I can afford to support her if we decided she leave work now - what would she do with her time?  About one week after returning from my second visit I had realized my corporation was in big financial trouble.  I nearly lost it for the first time ever.  I have recovered nicely but not able to be careless with cash.

Your question was what responsibility to I feel I have - quite simply I have the responsibility to help with ANY reasonable request for help with expenses.  My Elena most certainly falls into that category.  If she would have told me she expects to quit her job the day of the engagement and that I support her - I probably would have run for the hills.

With the interview date nearing I will loosen the reigns a bit when it comes to her having use of my money.  I left her an ATM/Debit card on my second trip in April.  She has used it only a few times for minor things and always only after I give her an amount she can spend.  (Usually broadband Internet which we now pay a monthly flat fee through a new provider)

And finally - Yes I did say MY money.  BUT...  after we are living together here in the USA I will make sure she has HER money also.  AFTER we marry...  It will be OUR money and we will both spend it fairly equally.  I was looking for a life partner after all - and to me that means to share everything.  I will be the head of the home and make final financial decisions but she will have a large influence on these things if she wants.

[BC]

She makes enough money to survive, have her own flat, phone, dial up Internet, computer, cell phone, car, plus give about 10,000 rubles a month to help her mother and sister raise her nephew.

Also something to be considered.

[MaxxumUSA]

Also something to be considered.

Definitely.  I have spent a lot of time with her family and care about their well being.  I would hope to not lower their living conditions after Elena comes to be with me in a couple months.

I have helped members of my family financially very much since starting my corporation.  I don't see any reason that I would not do the same for my wifes family - within reasonable terms.

I will not be taken advantage of by my family and the same will apply to her family.  BUT...  a reasonable, honest helping hand for necessities is OK in my book as long as we can afford it.

[KenC]

Maxxum,
You have a very healthy outlook on this issue.  It really is all about common sense now, isn't it?  The payment for broadband was smart too as I am sure it improved your relationship,  A very nice blend of covering all expenses incurred due to the relationship (or income lost because of it), occasional generous gift and expectations of her continuing her past efforts to support herself.  Bravo!  Well done.

If the woman has expectations of living a life of luxury and stopping all efforts to support herself BEWARE.  I remember the classic story on this topic from a few years ago.  An "average Joe" American found his dream woman in Ukraine and began sending her $1K per month upon her acceptance of their engagement.  She immediately quit her job and began to live the high life in Ukraine.  After almost a year for processing her visa (why should she hurry?) she arrived in America with her teenage daughter.  When the man brought her to his prefab home, she refused to even spend even a night in it.  He bucked up and paid for a hotel for her until he could arrange for a return flight to Ukraine.
KenC

[Mir]

So had he never told her about his house and living standard?
Maybe he had told her lies about his financial position?

[catzenmouse]

As stupid as I think it was for him to do that in the end it was money well spent. Even adding in all the flights and paperwork that $20,000 probably saved him hundreds of thousands down the road. Of course nothing would stop him from doing it all over again...

You just can't fix stupid.

Ken

[KenC]

As stupid as I think it was for him to do that in the end it was money well spent. Even adding in all the flights and paperwork that $20,000 probably saved him hundreds of thousands down the road. Of course nothing would stop him from doing it all over again...

You just can't fix stupid.

Ken

Ken,
I don't think he had "hundreds of thousands" to lose.

Mir,
The cost of spoiling a woman in America is much higher than Ukraine.  The lifestyle he afforded her in Ukraine was significantly higher than what he could afford here.
KenC